'11 NY OLB Ishaq Williams (Signed ND LOI-EE)

[woolybug25]

Here's what i'm talking about. Ishaq is a philosophy major, in the college of arts and letters. This major requires 120 hours to graduate. Let's look at a hypothetical that includes two BIG assumptions:
1) that he never took additional summer classes outside of this year
2) that ND didn't give him incompletes on past courses in which he already passed.

Early Enrollment - January
12 Credits*

Freshman
24 Credits*

Sophomore
24 Credits*

Junior
24 Credits*

Summer 2015
8 Credits**

For the mathletes out there... that's 92 credits. Exactly 28 credits away from graduating. Considering his father said that he needed 27 credits, that would leave room for him getting an incomplete in past courses. Which if that's the case, he can simply enroll in an extra class for credit hours in the fall semester and be up to on track to graduate. Most likely a 1 credit Experiential Learning Course.

So Coach D is either not getting his math correct or thinks Ishaq's father is a liar or misinformed. Either way, he should be more specific in his math assumptions.

*12 during football, 12 in Spring. Many guys take 15 in spring, but I digress
**Max summer credit allowed per ND

 

[SoDakDomer]

Here's what i'm talking about. Ishaq is a philosophy major, in the college of arts and letters. This major requires 120 hours to graduate. Let's look at a hypothetical that includes two BIG assumptions:
1) that he never took additional summer classes outside of this year
2) that ND didn't give him incompletes on past courses in which he already passed.

Early Enrollment - January
12 Credits*

Freshman
24 Credits*

Sophomore
24 Credits*

Junior
24 Credits*

Summer 2015
8 Credits**

For the mathletes out there... that's 92 credits. Exactly 28 credits away from graduating. Considering his father said that he needed 27 credits, that would leave room for him getting an incomplete in past courses. Which if that's the case, he can simply enroll in an extra class for credit hours in the fall semester and be up to on track to graduate. Most likely a 1 credit Experiential Learning Course.

So Coach D is either not getting his math correct or thinks Ishaq's father is a liar or misinformed. Either way, he should be more specific in his math assumptions.

*12 during football, 12 in Spring. Many guys take 15 in spring, but I digress
**Max summer credit allowed per ND

Also didn't Coach Kelly just quote in an article somewhere about having the kids take 12 credits instead of 15 to help ease the academic burden. That makes me believe they are taking 15 credits a semester?

"Are there other ways to do it?” Kelly asks. “Can we cut back on credit hours? Instead of taking 15 [the current practice to start a semester], can we take 12 and make it up in the summer? Are there other course offerings that could come about and be offered in lieu of a specific class? Those are conversations that had never taken place.”

 

[Big23Head]

Also didn't Coach Kelly just quote in an article somewhere about having the kids take 12 credits instead of 15 to help ease the academic burden. That makes me believe they are taking 15 credits a semester?

"Are there other ways to do it?” Kelly asks. “Can we cut back on credit hours? Instead of taking 15 [the current practice to start a semester], can we take 12 and make it up in the summer? Are there other course offerings that could come about and be offered in lieu of a specific class? Those are conversations that had never taken place.”

FWIW, using Wooly's #s with the 15 credit hour spring semester comes out to 93 credits, thus 27 credits shy of graduating as Ishaq (or Ishaq's dad) told Sampson he needed to graduate. This would also mean 80% credit completion would be attainable by summer's end. Again this is only true if Ishaq truly needs 27 credits which seems distributed.

 

[woolybug25]

FWIW, using Wooly's #s with the 15 credit hour spring semester comes out to 93 credits, thus 27 credits shy of graduating as Ishaq (or Ishaq's dad) told Sampson he needed to graduate. This would also mean 80% credit completion would be attainable by summer's end. Again this is only true if Ishaq truly needs 27 credits which seems distributed.

If you assumed 15 credit spring semesters, then he would be at 110 credits. Unless you meant something else.

 

[stlnd01]

Same logic as this........No matter how pissed you are or how much you hate your boss or job, never burn a bridge when you leave. Never know when it could come back to bite you in the cheeks.

I get that. What I mean is not just that they didn't trash Notre Dame on their way out the door, but that they owned up, publicly, to their end of what went wrong. They could very easily have "no commented" the whole thing, but instead several have talked about the episode the way Kendall Moore - who had a disappointing career and nothing to come back for - did here...
Moore says Notre Dame treated Frozen Five fairly | Inside the Irish

I think that speaks to the character of the people involved. That's all.

 

[Big23Head]

If you assumed 15 credit spring semesters, then he would be at 110 credits. Unless you meant something else.

Yup, I screwed up the years. My bad.

 

[Irish#1]

I get that. What I mean is not just that they didn't trash Notre Dame on their way out the door, but that they owned up, publicly, to their end of what went wrong. They could very easily have "no commented" the whole thing, but instead several have talked about the episode the way Kendall Moore - who had a disappointing career and nothing to come back for - did here...
Moore says Notre Dame treated Frozen Five fairly | Inside the Irish

I think that speaks to the character of the people involved. That's all.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[ND NYC]

so....ishaq is definitely back as a student at ND...but were just not sure if he can play football in the fall?

is that where were at with him?

 

[NDinL.A.]

This is where CoachD needs to clarify whether he thinks that Ishaq was given incompletes in classes he already passed. Otherwise, both of his comments are clearly untrue. IF... again, he very well may have been given incompletes on past classes... but IF Ishaq was only given incompletes in the classes he was enrolled in at the time of the Frozen 5 then he clearly would have enough credits to be NCAA eligible and on track to graduate.

I don't want to raise neckhairs on anyone, but CoachD needs to specifically state whether he thinks Ishaq was given incompletes on classes he already passed. Because if he doesn't know or believe that, then his math makes zero sense.

Like I said in my post a few days ago, there are privacy laws and if the kid won't come out and say it himself, then you'll never hear it on the record (as we know, ND is alwats completely mum on the subject). But many reporters have really good sources, and while they can't/won't go on the record, it's quite obvious what CoachD and others have been inferring. I just listened to the podcast and nothing he said is different than he told us in January. To me it's quite obvious that Ishaq got incompletes on classes, pushing him further behind. But you'll never get full confirmation on that, just like we never got confirmation on what exactly happened to Darrenn Wall, Julius Jones, Everett Golson, etc etc etc.

 

[woolybug25]

Like I said in my post a few days ago, there are privacy laws and if the kid won't come out and say it himself, then you'll never hear it on the record (as we know, ND is alwats completely mum on the subject). But many reporters have really good sources, and while they can't/won't go on the record, it's quite obvious what CoachD and others have been inferring. I just listened to the podcast and nothing he said is different than he told us in January. To me it's quite obvious that Ishaq got incompletes on classes, pushing him further behind. But you'll never get full confirmation on that, just like we never got confirmation on what exactly happened to Darrenn Wall, Julius Jones, Everett Golson, etc etc etc.

In this case, we do have the kid (rather, his father) coming out and saying it. Ishaq's father said that he needs 27 credits. Which is if true, makes some of these guys dead wrong on their numbers and clearly shows that he didn't get enough incompletes to make him ineligible on lack of credits alone. There is literally nothing that stops guys like CoachD from saying "I believe that Ishaq received incompletes for previous classes, which will make it very difficult to become eligible" though. There is no privacy law that prohibits that kind of talk, nor does it out their sources. It simply states an opinion. One that will be definitively proven correct or incorrect. Instead, everybody seems to be speaking in innuendo and vagueness. Not willing to put it out there that they believe that to be the case.

I'm just not a big fan of blindly believing what the recruiting guys say on these matters. They don't know the credit situation of students better than the students themselves. If they are going to insinuate that they do or that Ishaq's father is a liar, then don't beat around the bush about it. Own it. Ishaq's father put it out there that he needs 27 credits.

It seems like a lot of recruiting guys are hiding behind the fog of innuendo, like they tend to do when they don't want to eat crow later.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

In this case, we do have the kid (rather, his father) coming out and saying it. Ishaq's father said that he needs 27 credits. Which is if true, makes some of these guys dead wrong on their numbers and clearly shows that he didn't get enough incompletes to make him ineligible on lack of credits alone. There is literally nothing that stops guys like CoachD from saying "I believe that Ishaq received incompletes for previous classes, which will make it very difficult to become eligible" though. There is no privacy law that prohibits that kind of talk, nor does it out their sources. It simply states an opinion. One that will be definitively proven correct or incorrect. Instead, everybody seems to be speaking in innuendo and vagueness. Not willing to put it out there that they believe that to be the case.

I'm just not a big fan of blindly believing what the recruiting guys say on these matters. They don't know the credit situation of students better than the students themselves. If they are going to insinuate that they do or that Ishaq's father is a liar, then don't beat around the bush about it. Own it. Ishaq's father put it out there that he needs 27 credits.

It seems like a lot of recruiting guys are hiding behind the fog of innuendo, like they tend to do when they don't want to eat crow later.

If someone, say Player I gets an incomplete, or series of incompletes, even though he may not be enrolled, what is to keep him from making them up even when he is not enrolled? Or doing the ("makeup") work and officially returning it when he is readmitted?

 

[woolybug25]

If someone, say Player I gets an incomplete, or series of incompletes, even though he may not be enrolled, what is to keep him from making them up even when he is not enrolled? Or doing the ("makeup") work and officially returning it when he is readmitted?

If I am getting you right, that's what KRuss did at UW over the summer. Took classes to catch up.

Neither would be able to take classes at Notre Dame or through Notre Dame when suspended. So they would have to take classes through another university and then try to have them transferred when they get readmitted into ND. Once they arrive, they certainly can take extra classes, online classes and/or Experiential Learning Courses to catch up. But he still has to meet the 80% rule for the NCAA and Notre Dame's expectations for their student athletes.

KRuss took classes before enrolling back into Notre Dame. To my knowledge, Ishaq did not.

Not sure if that answered your question or not?

 

[dublinirish]

what was Ishaq doing with his time the last few months anyways? you'd hope if he wasnt taking classes he was working out like a pro athlete

 

[dales5050]

what was Ishaq doing with his time the last few months anyways? you'd hope if he wasnt taking classes he was working out like a pro athlete

I read that he worked in an office NYC and did some volunteer stuff in Harlem. I think it was financial services on the office.

I think he did very well for his mind and spirit duding his time off. Not sure how much work he did with his body.

Anyone have any idea on what kind of shape he is in?

 

[Luckylucci]

Back in class at ND, Ishaq Williams now plays the waiting game with NCAA - Notre Dame Insider: Notre Dame Football

Good read and quotes from BK.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Back in class at ND, Ishaq Williams now plays the waiting game with NCAA - Notre Dame Insider: Notre Dame Football

Good read and quotes from BK.

Kelly said that Williams made it clear that his priority is to get his ND degree, even if football never re-enters the picture for him.
“That’s what we thought about him, and all these guys when they were suspended,” Kelly said. “These are kids that understood that getting a degree from Notre Dame was much more important than playing.
“That’s why we’ve pushed hard to give Ishaq an opportunity back at Notre Dame, because he wanted to get a degree. We want to see that through. And he has our support, not only from football, but from our administration.
“Our administration has seen to it that once he was readmitted that he was going to get his degree.”

To me, this is the most important quote. The topic of neg. recruiting has been brought up many times recently and this is a direct rebuttal to any school using ND's Frozen Five (and Golsen) as a recruiting tool. Yes ND will call you out, but Yes ND will have your back and wants you to get your degree.

 

[Irish Insanity]

To me, this is the most important quote. The topic of neg. recruiting has been brought up many times recently and this is a direct rebuttal to any school using ND's Frozen Five (and Golsen) as a recruiting tool. Yes ND will call you out, but Yes ND will have your back and wants you to get your degree.

Dude its Golson not Golsen

 

[Luckylucci]

To me, this is the most important quote. The topic of neg. recruiting has been brought up many times recently and this is a direct rebuttal to any school using ND's Frozen Five (and Golsen) as a recruiting tool. Yes ND will call you out, but Yes ND will have your back and wants you to get your degree.

I don't view this as that. They still lost an entire season of football and for the kids that are 50/50 football and academics or even more on the football side, this won't resonate with them.

 

[yankeeND]

I don't view this as that. They still lost an entire season of football and for the kids that are 50/50 football and academics or even more on the football side, this won't resonate with them.

No, you are right, it I'll not resonate with them. It is important to note the things that Kelly and Swarbrick are looking into regarding credits earned and spreading courses out to make things more manageable. I think that these two guys get the big picture and will find the solution to it all. They don't have to change their standards, but it will be crucial for them moving forward to learn how to adapt to the ever evolving world of the student athlete.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

50/50 kids, I agree. But kids that get ND, favor ND, commit to ND...those are the ones who will understand and appreciate what it means. ND isn't a school that will turn their back on you as a student. It shows loyalty and it backs their mission.

The bottom line: I'm happy Ishaq, KeiVarae, etc will have the opportunity to get their degree. I'm happy the university is giving them this second chance.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Dude its Golson not Golsen

Omg thank you so much.

 

[Luckylucci]

50/50 kids, I agree. But kids that get ND, favor ND, commit to ND...those are the ones who will understand and appreciate what it means. ND isn't a school that will turn their back on you as a student. It shows loyalty and it backs their mission.

In the short term, its the 50/50 kids that ND is missing on. We have to be able to reach those kids and help them realize that ND is a place they can be successful in both academics and football. I believe this is fantastic news for Ishaq and the program, just not something that will give us a boost in recruiting. Now, if KVR can comeback, ballout, and be a face for this team. That might have a more lasting impact but it has to have something to do with football, IMO.

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is probably an irrelevant observation, but in my career teaching at WMU I had many many students who got incompletes. They sometimes just disappeared from my doorstep, but mostly were in communication with me as to how they could "make up the missing element." Most of the time, when it was a specific thing [like a paper], we scheduled the timeframe and the student got the work done "outside" of normal scheduling. {If the grade was "failure" rather than "incomplete" this couldn't go on of course unless we went through some extraordinary interactions with the Registrar's Office.}

I don't know what Ishaq's DETAILED situation is in any given "I" course. But if the cheating was on a paper, and he passed everything else, he and I would talk about it [if Notre Dame allows those sorts of "repairs"] and "I's" could be turned into whatevers in some time format quite outside the semester rigid schedules. Of course, if I was an asshole, I wouldn't do that as a vindictive teacher, but I wasn't.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian Kelly says even if Ishaq Williams is ruled ineligible that he will remain on scholarship, which could be outside the 85-man limit.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/608393918661685250">June 9, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[longliveautrydenson]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian Kelly says even if Ishaq Williams is ruled ineligible that he will remain on scholarship, which could be outside the 85-man limit.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/608393918661685250">June 9, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Does this mean he does or doesn't count in our 85 scholly limit?

 

[ACamp1900]

I read that to mean even if he doesn't play ball, Notre Dame has his back...

 

[Redbar]

Does this mean he does or doesn't count in our 85 scholly limit?

Further, if he is ruled ineligible could he be placed on a medical, simply to preserve his scholarship or would that a bad precedent??

 

[Big23Head]

Sampson explained if eligible he counts toward the 85 football scholarships, if not he won't count against it and remains on scholarship.

 

[ResLife Hero]

A bit more clarification:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian Kelly on Ishaq Williams: “He’s gonna get his degree from Notre Dame.” Full comment on Williams’ status » <a href="http://t.co/9x8rvyneOa">pic.twitter.com/9x8rvyneOa</a></p>— Mike Monaco (@MikeMonaco_) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeMonaco_/status/608397937060790274">June 9, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLax]

Sampson explained if eligible he counts toward the 85 football scholarships, if not he won't count against it and remains on scholarship.

Yes, as discussed earlier, if you do not have eligibility anymore for competition you cannot be a counter.