'16 IN WR Austin Mack (Ohio State Verbal)

jerboski

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Maybe he isn't a big miss in that we can recover from missing out on him. However, I am not a fan of being beaten out for in state targets that we want by Urban. In the same sense losing Eichenberg won't kill OSU, but it certainly stings for them.

I think losing Robertson is a much bigger miss. I just don't think Mack is an elite talent, would much rather have the other three even if means losing an Indiana kid to urban. I guarantee you urban would trade Mack for Liam right now if given the choice, defiantly think we are getting the better of that deal
 

longliveautrydenson

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Maybe he isn't a big miss in that we can recover from missing out on him. However, I am not a fan of being beaten out for in state targets that we want by Urban. In the same sense losing Eichenberg won't kill OSU, but it certainly stings for them.

I don't think we should be in the business of recruiting kids to prevent our collective pride from being wounded. If the kid isn't as talented as other kids on our roster and we have better options out there, then let it go. Putting up a major fight and making it look like a recruiting victory for OSU is worse than moving on to greener pastures and letting them win by default.

I've watched the tape of our four major targets this year and the four kids we took last year, and Mack is probably the 6th to 7th best player of the group. I think St. Brown, Sanders, Corley, McKinley and Mitchell all have more potential than Mack does, and Guyton's talent is probably comparable. Factoring in all of this depth, the need to get Alize Jones the ball and hopefully landing Osiris St. Brown in 2017 and I'm simply not sweating losing Mack. Save the scholly, use it on some 3 star athletic freak that's played football for 6 months and try to develop him into a pass rusher. That's where we really need more bodies.
 

mtnd15

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I don't think we should be in the business of recruiting kids to prevent our collective pride from being wounded. If the kid isn't as talented as other kids on our roster and we have better options out there, then let it go. Putting up a major fight and making it look like a recruiting victory for OSU is worse than moving on to greener pastures and letting them win by default.

I've watched the tape of our four major targets this year and the four kids we took last year, and Mack is probably the 6th to 7th best player of the group. I think St. Brown, Sanders, Corley, McKinley and Mitchell all have more potential than Mack does, and Guyton's talent is probably comparable. Factoring in all of this depth, the need to get Alize Jones the ball and hopefully landing Osiris St. Brown in 2017 and I'm simply not sweating losing Mack. Save the scholly, use it on some 3 star athletic freak that's played football for 6 months and try to develop him into a pass rusher. That's where we really need more bodies.

I agree with this. However, the staff has identified Mack as someone they want. As such they have tried to land him but appear to be getting beaten out. I just don't like that.
 

TheTurningPoint

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Its a big miss because of a few things.

1. Mack is the best route runner in the entire WR class. While he might not have the speed of Nixon, the athleticism of Corley, or the stats of McKinley, Mack is always open and always makes the play. You hear about how Jaylon and the Tranquill brothers played against bad competition in Indiana and that same stuff is around Mack. However, all those kids went down to Florida and across the country and went toe to toe with the best athletes in the South and across the country.

2. Mack is the more polished WR out of the kids they are recruiting. He understands the game of football. He has been very well coached and is more advanced than you might think. I understand the fascination with Corley and I would love to see Notre Dame add him. But, Corley is extremely raw. I think he could be an All-American type of player, but there are lot of things that he needs to do to simply get on the level of Mack's routes and understanding the concepts of leverage. That doesn't even get into breaking down a double team. McKinley and Mack are pretty even in terms of talent. I think both arent the greatest athletes but they always seem to be able to get open and never get caught from behind. McKinley has better hands than Mack at this stage. Tre Nixon is a speed demon and isn't going to take away Mack's spot or vice versa. Nixon and Mitchell have yet to even visit Notre Dame, while Mack has been there countless times.

3. If you want to take a 3-star athletic freak and develop him, then you take one in 2015 or 2017. If you take one this year, then its going to be at the end of the class when you can't get anyone. Some can argue that they already took the project in Julian Okwara. He is going to need a lot of weight and strength before he is ready to see the field.

4. Notre Dame needs WR's in the class and can't afford to lose out on kids that should be locks to Notre Dame. After this season, you are looking at losing Chris Brown, CJ Prosise, Amir Carlisle and possibly Will Fuller. I don't feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman.

5. Austin Mack isn't going to scare away Osiris St. Brown. And I honestly don't understand the point about Aliz'e Jones getting the ball.

A. Mack isn't a tight end.
B. If Mack isn't a quality player, then how isn't a more talented player going to take touches away from Aliz'e? I don't really follow your points.
C. Notre Dame is going to reach their # at WR this year regardless of St. Brown. He is going to be looking at a stocked stable of WRs, so once again if there are more talented guys out there for ND focus on, then why would Orisis come to ND if they are getting more talent than Mack?

6. Mack is from Indiana and you need to keep in-state talent in state. In Notre Dame's case that is bigger than most programs. The talent in Indiana isn't the greatest and losing out on Mack means Robertson isn't going to come to Notre Dame more than likely, so you just lost the two best players in the state in 2016.

7. Notre Dame offered Mack early, because he is extremely talented and has an even higher ceiling. I would encourage you to watch Mack's film again and try to watch the different routes that he is running and then watch the other prospects film. Mack is running a very complex route tree and sets his guy up for what he wants. The other kids are simply using great athleticism and speed to make plays. At the college level, it is about leverage, angles and understand where to run your route pre-snap. The other guys outside of McKinley are simply not at that point yet.
 

longliveautrydenson

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Its a big miss because of a few things.

3. If you want to take a 3-star athletic freak and develop him, then you take one in 2015 or 2017. If you take one this year, then its going to be at the end of the class when you can't get anyone. Some can argue that they already took the project in Julian Okwara. He is going to need a lot of weight and strength before he is ready to see the field.

4. Notre Dame needs WR's in the class and can't afford to lose out on kids that should be locks to Notre Dame. After this season, you are looking at losing Chris Brown, CJ Prosise, Amir Carlisle and possibly Will Fuller. I don't feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman.

5. Austin Mack isn't going to scare away Osiris St. Brown. And I honestly don't understand the point about Aliz'e Jones getting the ball.

A. Mack isn't a tight end.
B. If Mack isn't a quality player, then how isn't a more talented player going to take touches away from Aliz'e? I don't really follow your points.
C. Notre Dame is going to reach their # at WR this year regardless of St. Brown. He is going to be looking at a stocked stable of WRs, so once again if there are more talented guys out there for ND focus on, then why would Orisis come to ND if they are getting more talent than Mack?

6. Mack is from Indiana and you need to keep in-state talent in state. In Notre Dame's case that is bigger than most programs. The talent in Indiana isn't the greatest and losing out on Mack means Robertson isn't going to come to Notre Dame more than likely, so you just lost the two best players in the state in 2016.

7. Notre Dame offered Mack early, because he is extremely talented and has an even higher ceiling. I would encourage you to watch Mack's film again and try to watch the different routes that he is running and then watch the other prospects film. Mack is running a very complex route tree and sets his guy up for what he wants. The other kids are simply using great athleticism and speed to make plays. At the college level, it is about leverage, angles and understand where to run your route pre-snap. The other guys outside of McKinley are simply not at that point yet.

I don't have time to address all of your points, but I'll try to address some:

1. First, you make the WR situation after this year sound pretty dire, but there's a good chance we only lose Brown and Carlisle. I just don't see NFL scouts giving out a 1st Round grade to someone with Fuller's size or Prosise's lack of experience. That would leave us with Fuller, Robinson, Prosise, Hunter, Brent, Holmes, St. Brown, Boykin, Guyton and Sanders. Eight of those guys will have multiple years of eligibility remaining after the 2015 season. So if even if we whiff entirely on WRs this year, it won't be optimal, but it won't be devastating either.

2. I should have been more clear about my Aliz'e Jones point. First, I feel like he is someone we are going to need get in the game and get the ball for as long as we have him. However, we also have other quality TEs that are going to play. I see Aliz'e Jones being split wide a lot as a result, which essentially turns him into another WR in a lot formations.

3. I don't think taking Mack would scare off St. Brown by any means. I only mentioned him because he's part of the reason I wouldn't particularly mind missing out on Mack. He could be the start of a great 2017 class at WR.

4. I don't buy the "he's not good because he doesn't play high enough competition" arguments. I think that may be a concern with linemen that look dominant because they're playing a bunch of scrubs (I see you Tiassum), but if a WR has great hands and great speed then the competition doesn't mean as much. However, I don't find Mack to be a particularly exciting recruit because he doesn't appear to have any elite skill set. I feel like we have other guys like that on the roster in Holmes, Guyton, Brent and Robinson (although his height may be one), that are good at a lot of things but not great at any of them. With those guys already on the roster, I'd like to go after some burners like Nixon and Mitchell or someone with a ton of raw potential like Corley.

5. I was being somewhat facetious with the 3-star athletic freak line, but the point remains the same. The weakness on this team that has no discernible solution is the lack of a pass rush. We need one guy, just one guy, that can consistently get to the QB without the assist of an elaborate BVG blitz. Until we find that guy, we are going to put too much pressure on our DBs and OLBs to stay with men in coverage for longer than they should have to. We need to be throwing the kitchen sink at some of the DEs on our board, for me WR isn't a huge priority.
 

connor_in

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Its a big miss because of a few things.

1. Mack is the best route runner in the entire WR class. While he might not have the speed of Nixon, the athleticism of Corley, or the stats of McKinley, Mack is always open and always makes the play. You hear about how Jaylon and the Tranquill brothers played against bad competition in Indiana and that same stuff is around Mack. However, all those kids went down to Florida and across the country and went toe to toe with the best athletes in the South and across the country.

2. Mack is the more polished WR out of the kids they are recruiting. He understands the game of football. He has been very well coached and is more advanced than you might think. I understand the fascination with Corley and I would love to see Notre Dame add him. But, Corley is extremely raw. I think he could be an All-American type of player, but there are lot of things that he needs to do to simply get on the level of Mack's routes and understanding the concepts of leverage. That doesn't even get into breaking down a double team. McKinley and Mack are pretty even in terms of talent. I think both arent the greatest athletes but they always seem to be able to get open and never get caught from behind. McKinley has better hands than Mack at this stage. Tre Nixon is a speed demon and isn't going to take away Mack's spot or vice versa. Nixon and Mitchell have yet to even visit Notre Dame, while Mack has been there countless times.

3. If you want to take a 3-star athletic freak and develop him, then you take one in 2015 or 2017. If you take one this year, then its going to be at the end of the class when you can't get anyone. Some can argue that they already took the project in Julian Okwara. He is going to need a lot of weight and strength before he is ready to see the field.

4. Notre Dame needs WR's in the class and can't afford to lose out on kids that should be locks to Notre Dame. After this season, you are looking at losing Chris Brown, CJ Prosise, Amir Carlisle and possibly Will Fuller. I don't feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman.

5. Austin Mack isn't going to scare away Osiris St. Brown. And I honestly don't understand the point about Aliz'e Jones getting the ball.

A. Mack isn't a tight end.
B. If Mack isn't a quality player, then how isn't a more talented player going to take touches away from Aliz'e? I don't really follow your points.
C. Notre Dame is going to reach their # at WR this year regardless of St. Brown. He is going to be looking at a stocked stable of WRs, so once again if there are more talented guys out there for ND focus on, then why would Orisis come to ND if they are getting more talent than Mack?

6. Mack is from Indiana and you need to keep in-state talent in state. In Notre Dame's case that is bigger than most programs. The talent in Indiana isn't the greatest and losing out on Mack means Robertson isn't going to come to Notre Dame more than likely, so you just lost the two best players in the state in 2016.

7. Notre Dame offered Mack early, because he is extremely talented and has an even higher ceiling. I would encourage you to watch Mack's film again and try to watch the different routes that he is running and then watch the other prospects film. Mack is running a very complex route tree and sets his guy up for what he wants. The other kids are simply using great athleticism and speed to make plays. At the college level, it is about leverage, angles and understand where to run your route pre-snap. The other guys outside of McKinley are simply not at that point yet.

Well dang TP...if you want to go all research and analysis. then fine...whatevs
 

Domina Nostra

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Its a big miss because of a few things.

1. Mack is the best route runner in the entire WR class. While he might not have the speed of Nixon, the athleticism of Corley, or the stats of McKinley, Mack is always open and always makes the play. You hear about how Jaylon and the Tranquill brothers played against bad competition in Indiana and that same stuff is around Mack. However, all those kids went down to Florida and across the country and went toe to toe with the best athletes in the South and across the country.

2. Mack is the more polished WR out of the kids they are recruiting. He understands the game of football. He has been very well coached and is more advanced than you might think. I understand the fascination with Corley and I would love to see Notre Dame add him. But, Corley is extremely raw. I think he could be an All-American type of player, but there are lot of things that he needs to do to simply get on the level of Mack's routes and understanding the concepts of leverage. That doesn't even get into breaking down a double team. McKinley and Mack are pretty even in terms of talent. I think both arent the greatest athletes but they always seem to be able to get open and never get caught from behind. McKinley has better hands than Mack at this stage. Tre Nixon is a speed demon and isn't going to take away Mack's spot or vice versa. Nixon and Mitchell have yet to even visit Notre Dame, while Mack has been there countless times.

3. If you want to take a 3-star athletic freak and develop him, then you take one in 2015 or 2017. If you take one this year, then its going to be at the end of the class when you can't get anyone. Some can argue that they already took the project in Julian Okwara. He is going to need a lot of weight and strength before he is ready to see the field.

4. Notre Dame needs WR's in the class and can't afford to lose out on kids that should be locks to Notre Dame. After this season, you are looking at losing Chris Brown, CJ Prosise, Amir Carlisle and possibly Will Fuller. I don't feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman.

5. Austin Mack isn't going to scare away Osiris St. Brown. And I honestly don't understand the point about Aliz'e Jones getting the ball.

A. Mack isn't a tight end.
B. If Mack isn't a quality player, then how isn't a more talented player going to take touches away from Aliz'e? I don't really follow your points.
C. Notre Dame is going to reach their # at WR this year regardless of St. Brown. He is going to be looking at a stocked stable of WRs, so once again if there are more talented guys out there for ND focus on, then why would Orisis come to ND if they are getting more talent than Mack?

6. Mack is from Indiana and you need to keep in-state talent in state. In Notre Dame's case that is bigger than most programs. The talent in Indiana isn't the greatest and losing out on Mack means Robertson isn't going to come to Notre Dame more than likely, so you just lost the two best players in the state in 2016.

7. Notre Dame offered Mack early, because he is extremely talented and has an even higher ceiling. I would encourage you to watch Mack's film again and try to watch the different routes that he is running and then watch the other prospects film. Mack is running a very complex route tree and sets his guy up for what he wants. The other kids are simply using great athleticism and speed to make plays. At the college level, it is about leverage, angles and understand where to run your route pre-snap. The other guys outside of McKinley are simply not at that point yet.

I don't see it this way. We have very few scholarships to offer, we got 6 high-quality WRs in the last 2 classes, with a diverse array of skills and profiles. If we needed to load up with 3-5, I agree we could not afford to miss on a local kid. As such, there is absolutely no reason that a school like ND that recruits nationally needs him in a year where they should only be taking 1 or 2.

1 and 2) "While he might not have the speed of Nixon, the athleticism of Corley, or the stats of McKinley, Mack is always open and always makes the play" . . . "Mack is the more polished WR out of the kids they are recruiting." To me, this just sounds like we are talking about Corey Holmes or Jalen Guyton. We have guys like that one the roster.

If anything, we need a big-bodied burner this year.

3. I think we could easily accomodate a project if he in an elite athelte, and I think we'll be able to find 1 additional high quality WR if we have a good season.

4. I would feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman, plus 1 or 2 recruits of similar caliber.

5. Agreed.

6. You are never going to keep all the in-state talent, see OSU. In Notre Dame's case, because the school is Catholic and is so unique educationally, you simply can't assume that an in-state kid will even be open to going to ND. On the other hand, we have a real, national recruiting program and, as you said, the talent in Indiana isn't the greatest any way. I think the Indiana pipeline is important, but we can't rely on it.

7. I agree that Mack is very good.
 
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Veritate Duce Progredi

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Its a big miss because of a few things.

4. Notre Dame needs WR's in the class and can't afford to lose out on kids that should be locks to Notre Dame. After this season, you are looking at losing Chris Brown, CJ Prosise, Amir Carlisle and possibly Will Fuller. I don't feel comfortable with Torii Hunter, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent and the incoming freshman.

I thought Prosise had another year after this one? If we have the year we expect, I'd wish Fuller well after a 2nd consecutive 15+ TD season so I can admit the very real possibility of an early departure.

Your phrasing makes it sound like we don't have other viable options but we still have a loaded rosterl.

Torii Hunter Jr, Corey Holmes, Justin Brent, Corey Robinson, Miles Boykin, Jalen Guyton, CJ Sanders & ESB.

Even without Prosise and Fuller, it would appear we have enough talent on the roster to find 3-4 quality players, no?

I would love to add Mack or any other quality receivers but if we only sign 1-2, I think we'll still have the target depth on our roster or am I missing something?
 

Irishman77

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Add to the list the WR threats we have at TE moving fwd. I know its all speculation until there is production, but thats the way it was when Floyd, Eifert, Daniels etc moved on and Fuller, Robinson etc got their opportunity. We are absolutely fine at who will catch footballs imho... We should take 2 at the most at WR this year...

We got to keep bringing in big bodies on D and find someone that can get home! We got very good depth now and should be OKay, but We are SORELY missing an elite pass rusher!

We need a Lynch or a Vanderdoes that is not a head case.
 

Andy in Sactown

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Add to the list the WR threats we have at TE moving fwd. I know its all speculation until there is production, but thats the way it was when Floyd, Eifert, Daniels etc moved on and Fuller, Robinson etc got their opportunity. We are absolutely fine at who will catch footballs imho... We should take 2 at the most at WR this year...

We got to keep bringing in big bodies on D and find someone that can get home! We got very good depth now and should be OKay, but We are SORELY missing an elite pass rusher!

We need a Lynch or a Vanderdoes that is not a head case.

You can add Armsteads to that list; but point well made.

Loving the trend toward large physical receivers.
 
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ulukinatme

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No thread for Ben Skowronek that I can see, but thought this was worth a laugh:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ben getting recruited with burritos &#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://twitter.com/BSkowronek10">@BSkowronek10</a> <a href="http://t.co/bXcF0y9OrS">pic.twitter.com/bXcF0y9OrS</a></p>— Austin Mack (@Austin_Mack10) <a href="https://twitter.com/Austin_Mack10/status/597890092204576771">May 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cincinnati Using Chipotle Proximity As a Recruiting Pitch | The Big Lead

Oh, Cincinnati...
 

Irish YJ

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No thread for Ben Skowronek that I can see, but thought this was worth a laugh:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ben getting recruited with burritos &#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://twitter.com/BSkowronek10">@BSkowronek10</a> <a href="http://t.co/bXcF0y9OrS">pic.twitter.com/bXcF0y9OrS</a></p>— Austin Mack (@Austin_Mack10) <a href="https://twitter.com/Austin_Mack10/status/597890092204576771">May 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cincinnati Using Chipotle Proximity As a Recruiting Pitch | The Big Lead

Oh, Cincinnati...

Ben not a fan of Cinci Chili? WTF
 

BobbyMac

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Skyline Chilli.... Greek Spaghetti.... same thing. Probably the most overrated food on the planet and this is coming from a former drunk SW Ohio resident who was married to a Greek.

.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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Skyline Chilli.... Greek Spaghetti.... same thing. Probably the most overrated food on the planet and this is coming from a former drunk SW Ohio resident who was married to a Greek.

.

Is that even possible?
 

woolybug25

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Skyline Chilli.... Greek Spaghetti.... same thing. Probably the most overrated food on the planet and this is coming from a former drunk SW Ohio resident who was married to a Greek.

.

I'm Greek and skyline chili is in no way Greek food. Maybe they call it that in your neck of the woods, but nothing about it resembles Greek food.

Greek spaghetti does not have chili on top of it, nor shredded cheddar.

Somebody revoke GKirish's temp ban.
 

ulukinatme

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I've lived in SW Ohio for half my life now, and I've never got the fascination with Skyline Chili. It's not the worst thing, but damn if they don't talk about it here a lot. My uncle and his family moved to Florida for several years, they move back and the kids talked about missing Skyline more than anything. There's something wrong with people from this area.
 

Irish YJ

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The original Skyline Chili was a recipe brought over by Greeks supposedly (the owners of the restaurant). IMO, doesn't taste Greek to me either, but the family is definitely Greek immigrants from the 40s
 
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woolybug25

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The original Skyline Chili was a recipe brought over by Greeks supposedly (the owners of the restaurant). IMO, doesn't taste Greek to me either, but the family is definitely Greek immigrants from the 40s

Yeah, I doubt they "brought it over" from Greece, but rather started making it here and happened to be greek. Probably didn't know that it was taboo to put chili on top of noodles and got lucky. Greek people don't even eat chili in Greece. Greeks are innovative like that. They didn't bring laundromats over either.

Most greek owned restaurants aren't greek food only, most commonly they are Americana with sprinkled greek dishes.

I can say with 100% certainty that chili on top of italian noodles with an cow milk cheese is not something originally from Greece.
 

dublinirish

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aha yep its same in UK and Ireland where all the italians opened fish and chips restaurants despite having no background of eating it in their own country. They just saw there was a local demand and went with it.
 

dublinirish

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there's something incredibly "IE" about a recruit's thread (who many believe is a long shot to commit to ND) turning into a food discussion :D
 

IrishLion

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As a resident of the Greater Cincinnati area, I'm not opposed to issuing my first ban-hammering on whosoever deems it appropriate to talk down upon Cincinnati chili.

#Skyline4Lyfe
 

BobbyMac

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I'm Greek and skyline chili is in no way Greek food. Maybe they call it that in your neck of the woods, but nothing about it resembles Greek food.

Greek spaghetti does not have chili on top of it, nor shredded cheddar.

Somebody revoke GKirish's temp ban.

So you've had Nico Lambrinides' Skyline Chili and it is no way Greek food???

You haven't had Skyline Chilli obviously. It's kima mixed with some standard generic chili. Cinnamon, mint & parsley... so basically it's makaronia me kima as it comes on spaghetti if you want.

*sorry, should have kept reading... never would have thought everyone else knew it was greek owned and inspired too.
.
 
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Rack Em

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As a resident of the Greater Cincinnati area, I'm not opposed to issuing my first ban-hammering on whosoever deems it appropriate to talk down upon Cincinnati chili.

#Skyline4Lyfe

Bullshit!

Gold Star or GTFO
 

BobbyMac

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Yeah, I doubt they "brought it over" from Greece, but rather started making it here and happened to be greek. Probably didn't know that it was taboo to put chili on top of noodles and got lucky. Greek people don't even eat chili in Greece. Greeks are innovative like that. They didn't bring laundromats over either.

Most greek owned restaurants aren't greek food only, most commonly they are Americana with sprinkled greek dishes.

I can say with 100% certainty that chili on top of italian noodles with an cow milk cheese is not something originally from Greece.

Greeks don't eat Gyros either (in Greece), is that not Greek or is just Greek to Americans?

So bring some mizithra or kefalotyri if you prefer. I'd go mizithra on kima, you?

.
 
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