SEC West is the Biggest Fraud of All Time

[T Town Tommy]

Kiffin outsmarted himself with the playcalling for sure. But, Smart/Saban had a pretty crappy gameplan on D as well. 537 yards allowed....

Bama could have won if Kiffin stuck with the run game more, but that D wasn't doing much against OSU either.

Yep. All in all Bama was outplayed and out coached. Kudos to Meyer and crew. They were able to execute at a much better rate on the field and in their play calling and deserved the win.

 

[NDRock]

I'm gonna throw this out there:

The only reason Bama "got exposed" is because Lane Kiffin is the dumbest human being on the planet.

Bama would've been better off running the ball every single play, and punting when it didn't get 10 yards.

AT THE VERY LEAST, if you refuse to hand the ball to DERRICK HENRY, throw it to AMARI COOPER ON YOUR FINAL DRIVE.

Did he think that Cooper as a decoy was the best option?

Well this is the same guy who kept Reggie Bush on the sideline during USC's most important play (4th and 2) of the 06' Championship Game.

 

[T Town Tommy]

How banged up was Collins heading into the game? Feel like he was down for an extended period a handful of times on defense.

I did not see any info on Collins being banged up before the game. I was more surprised that Yeldon was limited since he had the time off between games.

 

[Guest]

I'm gonna throw this out there:

The only reason Bama "got exposed" is because Lane Kiffin is the dumbest human being on the planet.

Bama would've been better off running the ball every single play, and punting when it didn't get 10 yards.

AT THE VERY LEAST, if you refuse to hand the ball to DERRICK HENRY, throw it to AMARI COOPER ON YOUR FINAL DRIVE.

Did he think that Cooper as a decoy was the best option?

Some credit has to be to the OSU defense. They rolled some coverage to Cooper throughout the game. Again, people acting like Alabama lost when OSU was the better team yesterday.Their defense played much better than I expected, and the OSU Dline played much better in the second half.

 

[IrishLax]

Kiffin outsmarted himself with the playcalling for sure. But, Smart/Saban had a pretty crappy gameplan on D as well. 537 yards allowed....

Bama could have won if Kiffin stuck with the run game more, but that D wasn't doing much against OSU either.

This is the story of the game. Smart/Saban have proven the last two years that they cannot defend potent spread offenses. Their DL and LB are power players, not sideline-to-sideline guys... and their secondary has serious issues with busts when a QB can extend the play.

 

[IrishLion]

Some credit has to be to the OSU defense. They rolled some coverage to Cooper throughout the game. Again, people acting like Alabama lost when OSU was the better team yesterday.Their defense played much better than I expected, and the OSU Dline played much better in the second half.

No doubt of course, OSU was much stronger in their secondary than I thought they would be, and Bama did get exposed for having a bad secondary, limited depth in places, and for having a QB that was too hit-or-miss, but they STILL would have won that game if Lane simply calls for the pistol and runs it down hill on every 2nd-and-short situation.

Instead, they went shotgun rollouts/PA in those situations most of the night, and that was dumb.

 

[NCND]

But the data has shown the SEC doesn't get much bias in preseason polls anyway outside of Fla. If I were guessing I think we will see Bama, Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Mizzou, and Ga in the preseason top 25 next fall.

Lol ok

 

[irishfan]

This is the story of the game. Smart/Saban have proven the last two years that they cannot defend potent spread offenses. Their DL and LB are power players, not sideline-to-sideline guys... and their secondary has serious issues with busts when a QB can extend the play.

Yep. Malzahn has given them fits. A&M did when they had competent QB play. OU last year. WVU moved it pretty well this year against them. They don't square off against many spread teams, but they struggle whenever they do. Their corner play has been pretty weak the last couple years, and, as you mentioned, their Front 7 is built to stop a pro-style offense more than a true spread.

It's an amazing defense still, don't get me wrong. But they're not built to stop an OSU/Oregon/TCU/Auburn.

 

[Irish#1]

The part I find interesting about all of this is that in general IE posters bought into the SEC hype as well. It's hard not to with all of the media attention. How many people on here stated or thought LSU would crush ND.

I thought LSU would win, but simply because of the injuries requiring the pups to play, not because they are simply superior all around.

In the words of Jameis, they still "skrong."

They lost a few bowl games but don't think that means the empire has fallen. The biggest impact may be some recruits taking harder looks at the Big10.

I think this may help some recruits looking everywhere, just not the B1G.

What surprised me more about the Sugar Bowl, was the possible lack of preparation on Bama's part. They had no answer for the QB until late in the game when OSU helped them by running the QB over and over.

While I preferred the SEC take another loss, I was still impressed how Bama made it come down to the last play after being down 14 with just a couple of minutes to go. OSU did help them with the stupid pass play when they should have ran the ball three straight times.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Yep. Malzahn has given them fits. A&M did when they had competent QB play. OU last year. WVU moved it pretty well this year against them. They don't square off against many spread teams, but they struggle whenever they do. Their corner play has been pretty weak the last couple years, and, as you mentioned, their Front 7 is built to stop a pro-style offense more than a true spread.

It's an amazing defense still, don't get me wrong. But they're not built to stop an OSU/Oregon/TCU/Auburn.

Agree. And that's one of the small tweaks I have seen from Saban with last year's and this year's recruiting classes. You still have to have the bruisers up front against teams, but you have to have those type players who can play in space. These two classes have 4-5 players each that seem more fit for the spread. Tall corners for man coverage, smaller, faster lbs, and the hybrid OLB/DE. Gonna be rough treading for us until we see these guys making contributions.

 

[Guest]

No doubt of course, OSU was much stronger in their secondary than I thought they would be, and Bama did get exposed for having a bad secondary, limited depth in places, and for having a QB that was too hit-or-miss, but they STILL would have won that game if Lane simply calls for the pistol and runs it down hill on every 2nd-and-short situation.

Instead, they went shotgun rollouts/PA in those situations most of the night, and that was dumb.

I agree with that. They could have pounded their backs, up 21-6, and pressured OSU to play a perfect game to beat them. But OTOH, maybe Saban knew OSU was better than advertised and felt like he had to keep scoring on them. After all, OSU did blow out Wisconsin, a pretty good team that won their bowl against a respectable SEC foe. Again, maybe more respect needs to be directed OSU's way than we all originally thought.

 

[Guest]

But the data has shown the SEC doesn't get much bias in preseason polls anyway outside of Fla. If I were guessing I think we will see Bama, Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Mizzou, and Ga in the preseason top 25 next fall.

Now that is a silly argument that makes arguing with SEC fans lots of fun

Cheers.

 

[Guest]

Oregon favored by a TD in the final.

College Football Playoff National Championship -- Oregon Ducks 7-point favorites over Ohio State Buckeyes - ESPN

Lol, not much respect to OSU by the odds makers. Does this mean Alabama was overrated, FSU underrated, or they just love Oregon?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Now that is a silly argument that makes arguing with SEC fans lots of fun

Cheers.

What's silly about it? The fact that the preseason rankings bias for the SEC is not actually biased at all or the fact that the teams I listed would be in the top 25? Again, resort back to the rankings info posted above. That's the only real "subjective" and/or "objective" data I have seen to refute the alleged bias. If you disagree with the teams I listed as probable top 25 teams, then I would ask you why you disagree.

 

[Guest]

What's silly about it? The fact that the preseason rankings bias for the SEC is not actually biased at all or the fact that the teams I listed would be in the top 25? Again, resort back to the rankings info posted above. That's the only real "subjective" and/or "objective" data I have seen to refute the alleged bias. If you disagree with the teams I listed as probable top 25 teams, then I would ask you why you disagree.

Ok I am going to call a truce only because I have to work. I have posted statistical analysis on this point (rankings bias - #183), so you are not going to gain ground on it with me.

We differ on the dominance of the SEC because I make a two-tier argument to your one-tier. IOW, I look at the top couple of SEC teams and the 'rest', while you look at SEC against the world inclusive. I think that is what affects the rankings of SEC teams, which you refuse to acknowledge even though Harvard put it out there for us. Even though we are all intelligent, I have to give the nod to Harvard math on this one, lol. :-D

It's all good T3. But I really have to go back to work, so we'll continue the argument (trust me) when the SEC is again overrated next year in early useless polls. Should be fun

 

[pkt77242]

What's silly about it? The fact that the preseason rankings bias for the SEC is not actually biased at all or the fact that the teams I listed would be in the top 25? Again, resort back to the rankings info posted above. That's the only real "subjective" and/or "objective" data I have seen to refute the alleged bias. If you disagree with the teams I listed as probable top 25 teams, then I would ask you why you disagree.

While I don't completely disagree with your point, the SEC (in particles the west) don't get punished as much for their losses and get bigger bumps for their victories. Ole Mis this year (and Texas AM early in the year) are great examples of it.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Alabama is not a fraud. They were beat in a very good, physical game.

Yes, I think the Mississippi schools were overrated and yes I think the SEC as a whole gets a pass for interconference cannibalization but they do have some potent teams. Auburn is still a tough team, Alabama is scary every year and they are loaded with talent.

Arkansas may finally make the jump into a top25 talent. Mizzou and Georgia are both good teams as well, I wouldn't necessarily fear either one the way I still fear Alabama but they are pretty good teams.

The Ducks look like they are for real. I can't imagine if Kelly found a QB like Marriota, I'm sure all offensive minds think the same thing. What a weapon.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Ok I am going to call a truce only because I have to work. I have posted statistical analysis on this point (rankings bias - #183), so you are not going to gain ground on it with me.

We differ on the dominance of the SEC because I make a two-tier argument to your one-tier. IOW, I look at the top couple of SEC teams and the 'rest', while you look at SEC against the world inclusive. I think that is what affects the rankings of SEC teams, which you refuse to acknowledge even though Harvard put it out there for us. Even though we are all intelligent, I have to give the nod to Harvard math on this one, lol. :-D

It's all good T3. But I really have to go back to work, so we'll continue the argument (trust me) when the SEC is again overrated next year in early useless polls. Should be fun

I backwoods English and ability to read - although obviously at a much lower level than my posting friend - still doesn't see where you refuted anything. I gave you regular season and bowl game records that actually refuted what you had posted. I gave you data showing rankings reflecting beginning and ending points in a season and who and which conferences seemed to benefit from them the most. And my limited ability to reason showed that it was the B1G and the ACC who benefited the most from preseason ranking bias. The two tier argument you made was based on fragmented data. One part going from the beginning of the BCS era - the other part from the last decade. Merged together even a highly educated and wise poster as yourself could come to the same conclusions as T Town has. And it doesn't take Harvard math - which is the most grossly overrated thing mentioned thus far - to figure it out. Enjoy.

 

[Guest]

While I don't completely disagree with your point, the SEC (in particles the west) don't get punished as much for their losses and get bigger bumps for their victories. Ole Mis this year (and Texas AM early in the year) are great examples of it.

I went to undergrad at A&M for a few years, and love the campus and the University. That being said, TAMU has been vastly overrated for 2 years. Without JFF, that team is only good, but nowhere near great. Sumlin needs a better defense or he will never win the SEC.

 

[Guest]

I backwoods English and ability to read - although obviously at a much lower level than my posting friend - still doesn't see where you refuted anything. I gave you regular season and bowl game records that actually refuted what you had posted. I gave you data showing rankings reflecting beginning and ending points in a season and who and which conferences seemed to benefit from them the most. And my limited ability to reason showed that it was the B1G and the ACC who benefited the most from preseason ranking bias. The two tier argument you made was based on fragmented data. One part going from the beginning of the BCS era - the other part from the last decade. Merged together even a highly educated and wise poster as yourself could come to the same conclusions as T Town has. And it doesn't take Harvard math - which is the most grossly overrated thing mentioned thus far - to figure it out. Enjoy.

No you posted good data. It does show SEC dominance but I think mostly on the top tier, which I have always said. Problem is I don't have time to do a regression analysis for every team's results and post it here, too much work to do. See ya next year!

 

[connor_in]

LEAVE T TOWN TOMMY ALONE !!!!!!

 

[T Town Tommy]

LEAVE T TOWN TOMMY ALONE !!!!!!

He lost me at Harvard math. It's all good though. T Town is skrong!!!

 

[NDWorld247]

The SEC West is the Michael Jordan of CFB divisions. It's hard to make the case they aren't the best based on data and eye test, but their greatness is enhanced by an unprecedented media/marketing campaign and the gap is not as wide as this campaign would lead you to believe. The same can be said for the SEC as a whole.

I'm curious though...how would you guys rank the CFB divisions? I'm going to start another thread for the discussion.

 

[dshans]

I am so disappointed in you.

As you should be.

I sent myself to my room ...





... with a snifter of cognac.

 

[Rocket89]

I went to undergrad at A&M for a few years, and love the campus and the University. That being said, TAMU has been vastly overrated for 2 years. Without JFF, that team is only good, but nowhere near great. Sumlin needs a better defense or he will never win the SEC.

The problem is that your argument revolves heavily around a pair of statements...

"They're not as dominant as people say they are."

"SEC Team X has been overrated."

...that not only are highly subjective but you also get to set the bar on definitions of 'dominance' and 'overrated' that allow you to be upset about the SEC no matter the outcomes on the field.

So when statistical evidence is presented that shows the SEC has been the best and most deep conference in the country that's why a lot of people resort to those above statements and/or zero in on a two or three week period of rankings during the season with hindsight available to them.

Just substitute A&M with Notre Dame. Aren't all of those same criticisms true of the Irish as the Aggies when we moved all the way up to No. 5 after a bunch of non-impressive wins? The only difference is you don't use the same nitpicking for ND or other teams as you do the SEC.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Sims didn't have a particularly good night either. He made quite a few bad throws, and held the ball too long, taking losses when he should have gotten rid of it. He certainly didn't do LK any favors.

We were saying the same thing all game long. So many of Sims' throws were a foot off the mark all game long, causing receivers to stop, have to reach back, disrupting their momentum, etc. Some of it was OSU's pass defense, but a lot of it was unforced... he was simply off on his throws all night.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The problem is that your argument revolves heavily around a pair of statements...

"They're not as dominant as people say they are."

"SEC Team X has been overrated."

...that not only are highly subjective but you also get to set the bar on definitions of 'dominance' and 'overrated' that allow you to be upset about the SEC no matter the outcomes on the field.

So when statistical evidence is presented that shows the SEC has been the best and most deep conference in the country that's why a lot of people resort to those above statements and/or zero in on a two or three week period of rankings during the season with hindsight available to them.

Just substitute A&M with Notre Dame. Aren't all of those same criticisms true of the Irish as the Aggies when we moved all the way up to No. 5 after a bunch of non-impressive wins? The only difference is you don't use the same nitpicking for ND or other teams as you do the SEC.

Just an excellent post. The rest of the country thinks we're over-ranked every year. And the data have tended to back up that assertion.

 

[connor_in]

As you should be.

I sent myself to my room ...





... with a snifter of cognac.

only a snifter? you OK, D? or some sort of sick new year's resolution?

 

[IrishLax]

For the first time ever I'm listening to the Finebaum show. Just started, and it's already glorious. LET ME TASTE YOUR TEARS.

The Paul Finebaum Channel LIVE - The Paul Finebaum Show - ESPN

 

[Guest]

The problem is that your argument revolves heavily around a pair of statements...

"They're not as dominant as people say they are."

"SEC Team X has been overrated."

...that not only are highly subjective but you also get to set the bar on definitions of 'dominance' and 'overrated' that allow you to be upset about the SEC no matter the outcomes on the field.

So when statistical evidence is presented that shows the SEC has been the best and most deep conference in the country that's why a lot of people resort to those above statements and/or zero in on a two or three week period of rankings during the season with hindsight available to them.

Just substitute A&M with Notre Dame. Aren't all of those same criticisms true of the Irish as the Aggies when we moved all the way up to No. 5 after a bunch of non-impressive wins? The only difference is you don't use the same nitpicking for ND or other teams as you do the SEC.

Eh? Read much? Your statement is completely false, LOL.

I debated responding to you based on the fact you didn't read any of the stats I posted. Are you worth the time or not? Hmm..

Before I decide if I care, I request you read post #183 in this thread, read through the information I provided, then come back and respond.

Once you retract your false statement, we can talk about it. Otherwise, PUNT.