Rumblings from Saturday...

[Irishbounty28]

That's where I'm at. The defense has some legitimate excuses for collapsing, but the offense has none. I'm hoping Kelly consults with Malzahn in the off-season and transitions to a run-first "power" spread which caters to the positions we can recruit well.

You and me both are hoping the same man. I think it is also known that Kelly is way to bull headed to change his scheme around that much. He makes sure he brings up how long he has been coaching in almost every press conference I have heard. Not the type of guy that will scrap his philosophy for anything in my opinion.

 

[Luckylucci]

Meaning... that lots of people within the program are resentful of Kelly's pass-first scheme, and the problems it's created this season?

He didn't specify. I'll go over the threads to see if he posted more and I'll listen to the podcast. They do seem to be in-tuned to the general temperature of things as they speak regularly with TJ34, whoever that might be.

 

[NDohio]

That's where I'm at. The defense has some legitimate excuses for collapsing, but the offense has none. I'm hoping Kelly consults with Malzahn in the off-season and transitions to a run-first "power" spread which caters to the positions we can recruit well.

And hires a new OC that will run that offense.

I do not care for the head coach being the primary play caller on either O or D.

 

[tko]

This is going to be a long and winding road this bowl season and off season. There will be so much gnashing of teeth. These are facts.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You and me both are hoping the same man. I think it is also known that Kelly is way to bull headed to change his scheme around that much. He makes sure he brings up how long he has been coaching in almost every press conference I have heard. Not the type of guy that will scrap his philosophy for anything in my opinion.

Except that it's not a major change in philosophy for him. It would be similar to what he did in 2012, except with a lot more Zone Read (which is supposed to be a mainstay of his rushing game anyway).

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Exactly. On defense we are in the first year of a new system, and we've been depleted by injuries. I'm familiar with all the arguments about how you have to plan for injuries and suspensions and it just shows how important depth is and it's no excuse, etc. etc., but we were down to our 6th MLB on Saturday, if you count Grace as the first. That's gonna be tough for any program to overcome, I'm sorry.

But on offense? No excuse.

I mean let's face it, other than turnovers the offense has been rolling all season. With the defense not being to stop USC in the first half, that could have been the reason the offense turned it in also.

 

[Emcee77]

I mean let's face it, other than turnovers the offense has been rolling all season. With the defense not being to stop USC in the first half, that could have been the reason the offense turned it in also.

True on both counts.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Except that it's not a major change in philosophy for him. It would be similar to what he did in 2012, except with a lot more Zone Read (which is supposed to be a mainstay of his rushing game anyway).

I guess you are correct in some ways, but Malzahns offense is quite a bit different then ours in more ways than the read/option. It wouldn't take a huge overhaul, but would require more pulling lineman as well.

 

[wizards8507]

Except that it's not a major change in philosophy for him. It would be similar to what he did in 2012, except with a lot more Zone Read (which is supposed to be a mainstay of his rushing game anyway).

Isn't the whole issue that Golson is too skinny to take a consistent pounding like that? Slash maybe he just doesn't GET the read option?

All signs point to MZ.

 

[DCIrish]

I mean let's face it, other than turnovers the offense has been rolling all season. With the defense not being to stop USC in the first half, that could have been the reason the offense turned it in also.

They mostly had success against bad defenses and good offenses don't have as many issues with turnovers as they do.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I guess you are correct in some ways, but Malzahns offense is quite a bit different then ours in more ways than the read/option. It wouldn't take a huge overhaul, but would require more pulling lineman as well.

We also did a lot of that in 2012. Pulling was about the only thing that Mike Golic did well.

Isn't the whole issue that Golson is too skinny to take a consistent pounding like that? Slash maybe he just doesn't GET the read option?

Kelly has alluded to the former a few times, but by now, it's pretty clear that the latter is the real issue. Regardless, it's got to get fixed. If he can't run the Zone Read, Golson can't be our QB.

All signs point to MZ.

I'm not giving up on Golson yet, but his inability to: (1) read a backside DE; (2) run with authority; and (3) hang onto the football has opened the door for Zaire in a major way. And his backup, Kizer, is a big boy himself who would likely do better in a run-heavy scheme. Whether or not Golson hangs onto his job, all signs point toward switching to a run-first "power" spread. The 2014 iteration of Kelly's offense is too dependent on the QB, and it doesn't play to our recruiting strengths-- OL and TE.

 

[IrishinSyria]

everything's amplified when you have a losing streak. just like all the positive vibes were amplified during the early season winning streak, which was driven by bad opponents and extremely fortunate luck in relation to early-season injuries.

this team was always vulnerable b/c of lack of depth and experience on the lines combined w the suspensions. that said, the foundation remains solid. if Kelly can keep guys like Day and Stanley and Golson (yes, Golson) from going pro then this team is going to be formidable next year.

anyone who wants Kelly to leave is ignoring the foundation that he's built.

Exactly.

 

[dwshade]

Let me start off by stating, I am not a typical insider. I do not actively look for info on ND football. I'm happy with what you guys provide here on IE. I don't read any other boards like NDNation, II, ESPN and even deleted my BR Irish stream this season.

I've by chance become friends with someone close to the program over the past couple of years and recently, met someone else with an even broader connection to the players and the recruiting staff. On Saturday, some things were shared with me that were really troubling. I thought about swallowing it but since no one knows me or the people I know personally, I'll share it for what it's worth.

Before the game started, I was told that Kelly is dangerously close to losing this team. It seems there IS a rift being caused by the offensive philosophy / player choices of this staff. When I first heard it, I didn't know how to take it but it quickly turned out to be almost prophetic. Most troubling were some of the texts from other people you know very well that were coming in.

As bright as the future SHOULD be, it appears there are some serious clouds hanging over the program. I honestly wish I wouldn't have heard it.

.

This post tells me absolutely nothing. It's white noise that you hear anytime a program goes through a rough spell.

 

[dwshade]

I haven't listened to the weekend podcast at II yet but Sampson spoke briefly to this on the II board. There is a deep in the program issue with the offensive philosophy. Now he didn't elaborate other than to say thats its apparent what Kelly is envisioning and what he's getting are two different things. He needs to step back and see if what he's doing can even work at ND and if it can is he going about it the right way. They have been incredibly hard on Kelly with some of their pieces recently and rightfully so.

I took it as Sampson's opinion. Not really anything based on what he's heard.

 

[koonja]

I'm confused.

ND people/fans have a problem with the offensive philosophy? The assistant coaches have a problem with the philosophy? The current players have a problem with the philosophy? Or the incoming recruits do?

 

[Ndaccountant]

We also did a lot of that in 2012. Pulling was about the only thing that Mike Golic did well.



Kelly has alluded to the former a few times, but by now, it's pretty clear that the latter is the real issue. Regardless, it's got to get fixed. If he can't run the Zone Read, Golson can't be our QB.



I'm not giving up on Golson yet, but his inability to: (1) read a backside DE; (2) run with authority; and (3) hang onto the football has opened the door for Zaire in a major way. And his backup, Kizer, is a big boy himself who would likely do better in a run-heavy scheme. Whether or not Golson hangs onto his job, all signs point toward switching to a run-first "power" spread. The 2014 iteration of Kelly's offense is too dependent on the QB, and it doesn't play to our recruiting strengths-- OL and TE.

I hope you are correct, but will believe it when I see it.

 

[wizards8507]

We also did a lot of that in 2012. Pulling was about the only thing that Mike Golic did well.

Kelly has alluded to the former a few times, but by now, it's pretty clear that the latter is the real issue. Regardless, it's got to get fixed. If he can't run the Zone Read, Golson can't be our QB.

I'm not giving up on Golson yet, but his inability to: (1) read a backside DE; (2) run with authority; and (3) hang onto the football has opened the door for Zaire in a major way. And his backup, Kizer, is a big boy himself who would likely do better in a run-heavy scheme. Whether or not Golson hangs onto his job, all signs point toward switching to a run-first "power" spread. The 2014 iteration of Kelly's offense is too dependent on the QB, and it doesn't play to our recruiting strengths-- OL and TE.

Can you elaborate on "all signs point toward..."? Are you saying that's what you think we ought to do (in which case I agree), or what you think Kelly will do (in which case I think you're crazy)?

 

[West Coast Domer]

That's where I'm at. The defense has some legitimate excuses for collapsing, but the offense has none. I'm hoping Kelly consults with Malzahn in the off-season and transitions to a run-first "power" spread which caters to the positions we can recruit well.

Better idea hire Malzahn and hire muschamp as DC.

 

[irishfan]

OP: is it possible for you to expand upon your post?

I think the USC game was the first game where there was any sign the players had quit on Kelly. We sucked against Northwestern and Louisville, but we looked sloppy more than anything. We just flat out didn't show up for the SC game.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

That's where I'm at. The defense has some legitimate excuses for collapsing, but the offense has none. I'm hoping Kelly consults with Malzahn in the off-season and transitions to a run-first "power" spread which caters to the positions we can recruit well.

Malzahn's offense would require some wholesale changes (such as tempo and line play).

If the Irish plan on using the run as more of a foundation then Meyer's speed option is probably more along the lines of what it will look like.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Can you elaborate on "all signs point toward..."? Are you saying that's what you think we ought to do (in which case I agree), or what you think Kelly will do (in which case I think you're crazy)?

I was mostly riffing off your usage of the phrase regarding Zaire > Golson. To clarify, it's more normative than predictive. And while I do think Kelly's ego (which is a job requirement for anyone in his position) leads to some stubborn decision-making, I don't think he's married to this year's air-raid offense.

See Chuck Martin's interview with Irish Illustrated from earlier this year-- Kelly has a track record for tailoring his offense to his personnel. He thought he had a Heisman-caliber QB this year, and tailored the offense accordingly; but Golson has some serious deficiencies which thwarted that plan. Looking ahead, our OL and TEs are a much more solid foundation for sustainable offensive success than hoping we finally get a QB who can check all the boxes.

 

[IrishLax]

I feel this post should be deleted, not because of subject matter but because it isn't nearly specific enough. There is not nearly enough substantiated or even rumored detail as to what is really being referred to.

All I'll add is that every single team I've ever been on has had "rifts" or players who didn't agree with coaches. Every single one, and I bet many on here have had similar experiences. The difference is that when everything is going well people keep their mouth shut (and for bigger sports it gets the "happy family" treatment by the media) and when things are going poorly everyone leaks their discontent to whomever will listen.

I don't doubt that many players are unhappy with Kelly, but I do question the point of posts like the OP.

 

[Circa]

Wouldn't It be great If coach still only got letters from fans? Too many minds.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Just my ignorant opinion so nobody get in a huff please....

Defensively we are going to be pretty damm good with the DC, recruiting, and current talent that we have. Our last-half season disaster was caused by the most ridiculous string of injuries that it's been my displeasure to witness. BVGs scheme has worked before, and he has grown with the 21st century rather than remain in the past, and if we just give the guy a damm break, he'll field something dynamic, entertaining, and effective.

Kelly's offense works, flat. But it only works if he can field a quarterback. Coach's "failure" was finding it nearly impossible to believe that the only experienced QB that he had would never REALLY get the feel for the actual game in any circumstances other than "bust the play and free-lance." Every week Kelly apparently assessed his best chances of winning and, again, could not believe that his experienced guy wouldn't give him a better chance than his unexperienced one. Surely Everett MUST stop the madness of personally screwing up every other drive [sometimes disastrously] one of these weeks? But he never improved in those critical ways.

I have no problems with Kelly's playcalling [other than a certain go-for-two, which was a brainfart based on being pissed off at the kicking crew]. I knew that coming in, Coach had extreme confidence in his system which had always worked even when we had to make do with Tommy. I also knew that Kelly had a reputation of trusting his players TOO much --- he assumes competence and refuses to alter playcalling because "the players might screw up." This trusting outlook has always cost Kelly in the past, and pre-Notre Dame he had [as his only negative knock] the rep that this quality would cost him one game per year that should not have been lost with more conservative philosophy.

This offense has been the most frustrating thing I've watched perhaps ever. We need a competent QB --- that's all. When Everett is imitating a competent QB, we've been unstoppable. Hopefully Everett Mark 3.0 or Malik or Deshone finally gives Kelly the QB he deserves.

 

[Luckylucci]

I took it as Sampson's opinion. Not really anything based on what he's heard.

Yea I guess because others said it I didn't. The OP is making a general and rather obvious statement. I was just pointing out that there is a large media faction that is already speaking to this somewhat. Its not a conspiracy per say, its more rather obvious that there is some sort of disconnect between what Kelly is thinking/preaching and what he is getting.

 

[JughedJones]

Well...

I've never been one to look for 'inside info', so take this for what it's worth. I mean, I'm always happy with what IE gives me and I was reticent to say anything because nobody knows who these 'sources' are. However, I thought I would share this crazy knowledge with you guys:

A couple people in the know told me that we just lost a few games. Kids are sad about that. However, my source told me that there's a new season coming right up, AND there's a bowl game too!

My insiders also told me that everyone should chill the fuck out and a fullback would not help.

TIFWIW!

 

[dwshade]

Yea I guess because others said it I didn't. The OP is making a general and rather obvious statement. I was just pointing out that there is a large media faction that is already speaking to this somewhat. Its not a conspiracy per say, its more rather obvious that there is some sort of disconnect between what Kelly is thinking/preaching and what he is getting.

As the above poster Mike said it's all about the QB play. And he's right. Golson takes care of the ball we're fine. We aren't having this conversation. Turnovers will kill you.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Hopefully the rift is between Golson and Fuller, because I refuse to believe that any quarterback could miss someone that wide open.

 

[Luckylucci]

As the above poster Mike said it's all about the QB play. And he's right. Golson takes care of the ball we're fine. We aren't having this conversation. Turnovers will kill you.

That's just not true. Should he take a majority of the responsibility, sure but the Oline was incredibly inconsistent all year. Same goes for WR's and the D. This wasnt just one aspect or player, it was many. Ex. Good protection, good throw, and dropped first down. Bad Bltiz recognition, poor blitz pickup, and sack fumble. I think that makes the point.

 

[connor_in]

Well...

I've never been one to look for 'inside info', so take this for what it's worth. I mean, I'm always happy with what IE gives me and I was reticent to say anything because nobody knows who these 'sources' are. However, I thought I would share this crazy knowledge with you guys:

A couple people in the know told me that we just lost a few games. Kids are sad about that. However, my source told me that there's a new season coming right up, AND there's a bowl game too!

My insiders also told me that everyone should chill the fuck out and a fullback would not help.

TIFWIW!

MOM! JUGHEAD JUST CURSED IN ASTERIXESXESXESXESXES!!!!!!!!!!