Video of the Pass Interference

[Whiskeyjack]

From SI's Andy Staples:

Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly remained angry on Sunday about the offensive pass interference call that wiped off the Corey Robinson touchdown that would have lifted the Fighting Irish to a win at Florida State. The day after the game, Kelly was more confused. “Actually, I have less clarity,” he said on a teleconference. “I guess it was actually called on Will Fuller, not C.J [Prosise]. Just adds more uncertainty as to the final play.”

If the call was indeed on Fuller, it makes less sense. Fuller was running a route and collided with a defender. He didn’t do anything illegal. Prosise, however, executed a textbook drive block on safety Jalen Ramsey into the end zone. That would have been fine on a run or a screen pass, but not on a forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage. For what it’s worth, Florida State players thought the call was on Prosise. The shame of it was Robinson would have scored had Prosise not driven Ramsey into the end zone.

“In terms of what we ask our kids to do, it was pretty clear what happened on the play,” Kelly said. “Florida State blew the coverage, and they got rewarded for it. So, it’s unfortunate.”

 

[enrico514]

Look at the pylons in that picture. I don't think the white line is OOB, I think it's just part of the endzone design.

Just looked and the end zone ends at the white line.

 

[kmoose]

So, on slant routes which are timing routes why doesn't every DB in CFB just jump every slant route and when there is contact its OPI? It would be so easy to throw off timing routes if you could just jump routes like Darby did to Fuller with the risk being on the offensive player. What if the ball was thrown to Fuller, would that still be OPI? I highly doubt it would've been. Definitely would've been a no call. So the determination that the referee made was that somehow Fuller impeded Darby's progress to the WR in question Crob. By clearly watching the play its very very evident that this didn't happen. Darby never tried to get around Fuller.

If Fuller had been the target of the pass, then any DB jumping in his way would be impeding his path to the football, which would be defensive pass interference. If the pass had been to opposite side of the field, then Fuller would not have impeded the DB's path to the ball, so there is no PI. By rule, the defender doesn't have to try to get around the offensive player, for there to be an impedance of his path. Call it a shitty interpretation of the rules, say that the ref should have kept it in his pants, say that it should have been offsetting fouls (for the mauling of Prosise); but don't say that the refs cost us the game. We had another play, afterwards, to make something happen. Even Everett Golson said, in the post game interviews, something to the effect of, "I probably could have made a play on the last throw, but I just missed it." If people are so fired up about the officials getting every single call right, then let's get it right!! Take Robinson's first TD off of the board, because there is no doubt that ND ran picks on that play. So give us back the 2nd one, but because we are adamant about the calls being right, we lose the first one. We still end up with the same score.

 

[NDisme]

Look at the pylons in that picture. I don't think the white line is OOB, I think it's just part of the endzone design.

The white line is OB i looked at the pylons at the corners of the endzone and they are at the white line, you wouldn't be able to have it be that confusing

 

[NDohio]

Just looked and the end zone ends at the white line.

That's bizarre. Look at the pylons in that picture. They are no where near the white line and they should be markers for OOB.

 

[connor_in]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7qZTUVxmhks" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[NDisme]

Also that would mean the goal post would be partially in play which can never be the case for safety

 

[Bubbles]

This could be there straw that stirs the drink to a national championship. I would like nothing more than either a rematch for the title after beating the SEC champ in the quarter finals.

Chip, meet shoulder. If this team doesn't come out straight up nasty in the remaining games, that will be far more disappointing than this loss, imo.

 

[NDohio]

The white line is OB i looked at the pylons at the corners of the endzone and they are at the white line, you wouldn't be able to have it be that confusing

I wouldn't think so either, but why do they have two pylons where the two in the picture are placed? Tell me that's not confusing?

I hate everything about the end of that game ...

 

[FLDomer]

I wouldn't think so either, but why do they have two pylons where the two in the picture are placed? Tell me that's not confusing?

I hate everything about the end of that game ...

Look where the goal post cross bar is. The cross bar is always in line with the back of the endzone as this one is too.

 

[connor_in]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Rq4YV4jgPdM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here is the description listed for this video posted by the ACC Digital Network:

"Published on Oct 18, 2014


As Notre Dame threatened with a 1st and Goal late in the 4th quarter, Florida State's defense stepped up and won the game for the Seminoles with an epic stand. The 31-27 win is FSU's 23rd consecutive victory"

 

[kmoose]

That's bizarre. Look at the pylons in that picture. They are no where near the white line and they should be markers for OOB.

I have never really thought about it, before, but now that I do....... I have only ever seen pylons at the corners of the end zones......

 

[RDU Irish]

If Fuller had been the target of the pass, then any DB jumping in his way would be impeding his path to the football, which would be defensive pass interference. If the pass had been to opposite side of the field, then Fuller would not have impeded the DB's path to the ball, so there is no PI. By rule, the defender doesn't have to try to get around the offensive player, for there to be an impedance of his path. Call it a shitty interpretation of the rules, say that the ref should have kept it in his pants, say that it should have been offsetting fouls (for the mauling of Prosise); but don't say that the refs cost us the game. We had another play, afterwards, to make something happen. Even Everett Golson said, in the post game interviews, something to the effect of, "I probably could have made a play on the last throw, but I just missed it." If people are so fired up about the officials getting every single call right, then let's get it right!! Take Robinson's first TD off of the board, because there is no doubt that ND ran picks on that play. So give us back the 2nd one, but because we are adamant about the calls being right, we lose the first one. We still end up with the same score.

You are right, let's change the score of every football game played in the last ten years to 0-0 ties. The call is crap, nothing we can do about it but go to work and shoot for 13-1. If this doesn't instill a killer instinct in these guys nothing will.

 

[wizards8507]

I have never really thought about it, before, but now that I do....... I have only ever seen pylons at the corners of the end zones......

 

[GowerND11]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Rq4YV4jgPdM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here is the description listed for this video posted by the ACC Digital Network:

"Published on Oct 18, 2014


As Notre Dame threatened with a 1st and Goal late in the 4th quarter, Florida State's defense stepped up and won the game for the Seminoles with an epic stand. The 31-27 win is FSU's 23rd consecutive victory"

 

[connor_in]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KphyRjN4isE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Here is full game fyi

 

[Jerry]

They haven't addressed it because it is immaterial, by rule. By rule, the offensive player is responsible to avoid contact. It's my personal opinion that, if Fuller bounces off of Darby and runs around him, then there is no call. But, because he tried to go through Darby, there is prolonged contact, which then is flagged.

What if the receiver isn't strong enough to get off the DB's press? If he drives him back 2 yds is it still OPI? Fuller turns his head back to the ball almost instantly. Which was enough for the line judge with the whole play right in front of him not to throw a flag. But the official farthest from the play who probably couldn't see the DB's engage throws the flag. This isn't as cut and dry as some are making it out to be.

 

[Luckylucci]

If Fuller had been the target of the pass, then any DB jumping in his way would be impeding his path to the football, which would be defensive pass interference. If the pass had been to opposite side of the field, then Fuller would not have impeded the DB's path to the ball, so there is no PI. By rule, the defender doesn't have to try to get around the offensive player, for there to be an impedance of his path. Call it a shitty interpretation of the rules, say that the ref should have kept it in his pants, say that it should have been offsetting fouls (for the mauling of Prosise); but don't say that the refs cost us the game. We had another play, afterwards, to make something happen. Even Everett Golson said, in the post game interviews, something to the effect of, "I probably could have made a play on the last throw, but I just missed it." If people are so fired up about the officials getting every single call right, then let's get it right!! Take Robinson's first TD off of the board, because there is no doubt that ND ran picks on that play. So give us back the 2nd one, but because we are adamant about the calls being right, we lose the first one. We still end up with the same score.

What did you expect him to say, seriously? He was probably coached on what to say like the players are frequently. Let the coach attack the officiating and the players give the PC answers. Pretty shocked that you'd expect something else.

How would it be the same outcome. Call the first one (actually the right call, I agree) we end up with a FG on that drive versus a TD. Come down on the last drive and score (with an extra point) its a tie game. We go to OT. Not the same outcome.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Take Robinson's first TD off of the board, because there is no doubt that ND ran picks on that play.

There's plenty of doubt. Ramsey and Darby were concerned with taking away the Slant routes, so they undercut Prosise and Fuller and jammed them both. Williams, who thought Darby was going to take Robinson, stayed with Prosise and Fuller as well. So the "penalty" was irrelevant to the outcome of the play. As Kelly said, FSU had busted coverage. On that play, any ref worth his salt swallows his whistle and ND scores the winning TD.

So give us back the 2nd one, but because we are adamant about the calls being right, we lose the first one. We still end up with the same score.

If you're going to play Captain Rulebook and insist that the refs determine the outcome of the game, we should have gotten 1st and goal at FSU's 9 for Unsportsmanlike Conduct (helmet removal) after that play with 12s remaining. That's enough time to run two more plays.

But we never got those chances. Because the same ref that ejected Tuitt for targeting last year against Pitt conveniently "missed" FSU's off-setting DPI on the same play, the subsequent Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against FSU, and the fact that the "interception" on ND's final pass was clearly caught out of bounds. All of these calls were made or missed to ND's detriment by the same guy.

But a real ND fan takes this sort of official corruption/ incompetence on the chin and doesn't whine about it, right? Real ND fans take out their frustration on the team we claim to support, or, better yet, our fellow fans! We're still not committing to the run and imposing our will on opponents! Harrumph Fullbacks!

 

[NDisme]

They weren't complaining to the officials they were arguing with each other about the blown coverage. That is 1 part of this that is obvious, it shouldn't have been called. Ramsey turns around to yell at teammates for the way they played their coverage, not looking for a flag.

EXACTLY, Darby was not supposed to jump fuller's inside route. Its a bunch set, There is Number 25, 8, and 3 for FSU. # 25 has the inside most route being CJ, Obviously ramsey #8 was going to jam cj and redirect him to the inside where # 25 was. then ramsey has the second inside route which is fuller. Darby is lined up on the outside and his responsibilityis the flat which is Crob but he decides to jump fullers route on the inside and that is why ramsey is pissed, they had no idea ND committed a penalty because Ramsey knows he jammed cj and darby jumped the wrong route. If it's a no call, nobody say boo about it

 

[Emcee77]

kmoose, you have whatever is the opposite of a victim complex. It's like a weird anti-victim complex ... is there a word for that? You take taking personal responsibility for misfortunes or struggles to a bizarre extreme.

That's actually a really admirable trait when it comes to governing your own affairs, but it blinds you to a lot of injustice when you analyze things that happen to others that way. Sometimes, the unfortunate person not only wronged himself but was wronged, and that second wrong makes the greater part of his misfortune. If everyone thought like you, we would just ignore that second wrong and let people do whatever they wanted to any person who was the tiniest bit at fault himself. It's just a weird way to view the world, imo.

 

[Luckylucci]

There's plenty of doubt. Ramsey and Darby were concerned with taking away the Slant routes, so they undercut Prosise and Fuller and jammed them both. Williams, who thought Darby was going to take Robinson, stayed with Prosise and Fuller as well. So the "penalty" was irrelevant to the outcome of the play. As Kelly said, FSU had busted coverage. On that play, any ref worth his salt swallows his whistle and ND scores the winning TD.



If you're going to play Captain Rulebook and insist that the refs determine the outcome of the game, we should have gotten 1st and goal at FSU's 9 for Unsportsmanlike Conduct (helmet removal) after that play with 12s remaining. That's enough time to run two more plays.

But we never got those chances. Because the same ref that ejected Tuitt for targeting last year against Pitt conveniently "missed" FSU's off-setting DPI on the same play, the subsequent Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against FSU, and the fact that the "interception" on ND's final pass was clearly caught out of bounds. All of these calls were made or missed to ND's detriment by the same guy.

But a real ND fan takes this sort of official corruption/ incompetence on the chin and doesn't whine about it, right? Real ND fans take out their frustration on the team we claim to support, or, better yet, our fellow fans! We're still not committing to the run and imposing our will on opponents! Harrump Fullbacks!

Whiskey you have a knack for always putting things into words better than myself, reps!

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

You are right, let's change the score of every football game played in the last ten years to 0-0 ties. The call is crap, nothing we can do about it but go to work and shoot for 13-1. If this doesn't instill a killer instinct in these guys nothing will.

He is not right, that was an absolute ridiculous scenario. You don't know what would of happened on the first time, we only know what happened on the second time where fsu blew coverage and was ND was flagged for the defensive players aggressiveness in the play. It cost ND the game because they did not score again. Bottom line. I'm not telling you to continue to complain about it. They win out they are in. Bottom line they learned a great lesson from this. Watch them become a more aggressive team. They have a team that can dominate and they received the confidence they need win the remaining games.

 

[NDohio]

Thanks - I had never really noticed pylons in the middle like that. That's why I thought it was bizarre in that picture.

What if the receiver isn't strong enough to get off the DB's press? If he drives him back 2 yds is it still OPI? Fuller turns his head back to the ball almost instantly. Which was enough for the line judge with the whole play right in front of him not to throw a flag. But the official farthest from the play who probably couldn't see the DB's engage throws the flag. This isn't as cut and dry as some are making it out to be.

I wonder if the line judge regrets not calling defensive holding. He seemed to be letting the players play and have them decide the outcome. Who knew some back judge from the other side of the field would make the ridiculous call he did.

 

[Guest]

I don't have the answer for why DBs don't just throw themselves in front of receivers in an effort to draw a PI penalty, other than this: if the pass is intended for receiver A, and the defender jumps in front of him, then the defender is now impeding the receiver's path to the ball, not the other way around, so the defender is guilty of PI. The point of emphasizing that the offensive player is responsible to avoid contact, is that Darby jumping in front of Fuller is immaterial. Darby did not impede Fuller's path to the ball, as he was on the inside and the ball was thrown outside. I do agree that there was a hold on Prosise that was missed, but I think that was more because the DB did a good job of hiding the hold from the officials, more than the officials purposely throwing the game for Florida State.

Ok you obviously are not watching the video by your responses. You are assuming that Fuller had the ability to avoid the DB. He did not. Fuller runs a fake outside and then turns inside (video evidence is clear here). The DB then sees Fuller move back inside and tries to jump the route. There is no way any athlete could have avoided that contact. Fuller couldn't have reacted by avoiding the DB because he had just turned inside after faking outside. That is a perfectly legitimate route to run. That was not blocking at any time, nor was it offensive PI by the letter of the rule. You appear to be applying the rule without understanding how the play unfolded.

 

[Guest]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7qZTUVxmhks" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The best thing about this video is it shows 3 things.
a) That the DB initiated contact with is hands FIRST. Therefore, CJ cannot be help responsible for the contact throughout the play.

b) That the DB turned CJ inside with his blocking, which prevented CJ from running a route and clearly shows CJ was not successful at trying to block the DB from making a play (because the DB had no intention of making a play on the actual receiver from the second the ball was snapped).

c) That CJ was tugged downward by the DB who was in fact, holding the WR.

This is also very clear from the opposite end zone shot as well as the video posted on Vines from the back corner of the end zone by a fan with full view of the play from a few yards away.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Ok you obviously are not watching the video by your responses. You are assuming that Fuller had the ability to avoid the DB. He did not. Fuller runs a fake outside and then turns inside (video evidence is clear here). The DB then sees Fuller move back inside and tries to jump the route. There is no way any athlete could have avoided that contact. Fuller couldn't have reacted by avoiding the DB because he had just turned inside after faking outside. That is a perfectly legitimate route to run. That was not blocking at any time, nor was it offensive PI by the letter of the rule. You appear to be applying the rule without understanding how the play unfolded.

He is obviously pot committed and sticking to his stance come hell or high water, so no point. As far as I'm concerned, there is no argument to be made here. I'm just wondering if Kmoose is in fact the back judge himself. I kid. I saw what you saw...Fuller fake outside, break into the slant and the DB jump the route and create a collision that Fuller could not possible have avoided....Prosise had contact initiated with him as well, and while one could maybe argue he didnt do enough to get away, the DB clearly had his hands on the outside and war bear hugging and holding Prosise's jersey to disrupt the slant.

Prosise's man made no attempt to get out into the flat to cover Robinson, and if didn't tie Prosise up at the line, he likely would have just followed him to the middle of the field on the slant, effectively taking himself out of the play one way or the other. If we were at the 50 and not the 3, and the corner was playing press defense like that and he and Prosise both engaged in the same manner, but Golson threw the ball 40 yards down field to Robinson, would that call have been made? Exactly.. and in this particular situation it had equally as much impact on the play.

Any way you slice it, the wrong call was made. On the replay you can see FSU was playing man as the inside DB immediately runs out towards the flat to cover Robinson, however he can't get through the traffic, and Robinson is wide open....much like a basketball guard not fighting his way inside a screen and leaving his man wide open for a jumpshot. The DB decided to go back behind the traffic and had no chance to get there in time. If FSU had been playing zone, this would not have happened...as BK stated they had the coverage call on, and the DBs blew the coverage and never switched off or adjusted the coverage at the line...the outside DBs pressed and chased inside and the inside DB got bottled up...exactly what the play was designed to do...there was no infraction anywhere on the play other than the FSU helmet coming off.

 

[Luckylucci]

Here is another video and explanation of it.

A new look at that controversial call during ND vs. FSU | Sports - WSBT.com

 

[BleedBlueGold]

After watching the above video over and over, I don't see how anyone can make a case against Fuller. He faked outside, cut back inside and was met promptly by an attacking Darby. They tangled, Fuller looked back at Golson (who had already thrown the ball) and he (Fuller) tracked it back to CRob for the score. There is NO WAY a flag should've been thrown against Fuller unless it was predetermined.

The ONLY negative thing I noticed about Procise is his footwork. He gets jammed, immediately and instead of trying to run off the defender, his feet sort of hop along with Ramsey. This to me gives the illusion that he's not trying to get away from Ramsey and just conveniently getting in the way (which is what kmoose is saying is illegal). Granted, it's also pretty obvious that he's being held the entire time. If anything, that should've been defensive holding. I can't throw a flag on CJ in that instance. I could've thrown one on Ramsey though.

I second what others have said that this penalty was 1) predetermined and 2) would never have been called had it been ealier in the game or at mid-field. It's a damn shame.

 

[NDohio]

Here is another video and explanation of it.

A new look at that controversial call during ND vs. FSU | Sports - WSBT.com

That's a pretty good breakdown of the play.

Now, could you please put on a belt!?