Post Game Observations (Florida State '14)

[yankeeND]

Thanks for sending me those pictures of you in action. Now i have visual confirmation that my old ass could still run circles around you...

Dude? Come on man, you are better than that. Kane is good people and so are you, don't stoop to that level because of a loss.

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

Only one way to solve this...




OKLAHOMA DRILL!

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Only one way to solve this...




OKLAHOMA DRILL!

SKRONG SIDE

 

[yankeeND]

SKRONG SIDE

Wait, wait, wait, is it skrong or scrong?

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Wait, wait, wait, is it skrong or scrong?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #blamejameis

 

[Redbar]

The "elitist pricks" comment was a response to someone calling me a dick.

Blah, Blah. kmoose is trying to hold people to a higher standard than the other boards that all of you elitist pricks condescend about all of the time. You know? The one(s) where people constantly whine about officiating, play calling, jumbotrons, and field turf?

Someone called you a dick, so you responded by making a comment about the board, plural.

How come you aren't chastising THAT comment?

As to why I am not getting on that comment too? I took your quote below at face value. Also, everything you said about "whining" about officiating, I guess in this case mine.

I am opinionated, yes. I set high standards for others, yes. I don't sugarcoat too much, yes. A couple of you mods have even given me infractions.. including you, whiskey. I would bet that I took those infractions with much less drama than most people. It's called being responsible. I sometimes lose my composure. But I don't blame anyone else when I do. I own my mistakes, and I try to learn from them and become a better person. I'm not going to apologize for expecting the same from others, and trying to hold them to that standard. In the end, it is up to them. If you don't like it, then ask Pham to boot me.

 

[phgreek]

I have a good friend who officiates JuCo in California. He is my go-to guy, when it comes to questionable calls. I'm sure he knows that he will be getting a call from me, tomorrow, asking him to explain the rule to me in detail.

Be interested to hear how he applies the rule...and what things receivers do that trigger the flag...I'm sure the trigger goes to hair trigger though, when his crew is alerted to watch for it...

 

[kmoose]

I think it is pretty obvious what Kelly thinks of the PI call:

<script height="381px" width="672px" src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#pbid=5e83fc845d86487e88b6953600eaff54&ec=Y3dzk3cToS_chThPd1buGYUdWBsYiR1W"></script>

But he also sounds like this team is almost right where he wants them to be........ almost. And that's pretty damn good.

 

[kmoose]

Someone called you a dick, so you responded by making a comment about the board, plural.

Actually, I didn't. What I said was that all of the elitist pricks on here constantly speak condescendingly about other boards. I did not say that everyone on this board was an elitist prick. Big difference. I suppose I might have worded it better, but it made perfect sense to me, in my head, as I typed it.

 

[NDfan12]

Great game by the boys. We proved that we can compete against top teams. We are most likely out of the top 10 rankings.

Right now I am just staring at the ceiling with sadness.

I'll stop watching college football if the Irish fall out of the top ten after a performance like this. ND has 150 rushing to their 50 and outgained them total by 173 yards. Eff the score, ND was better tonight. 6th or 7th is the lowest we should go.

 

[Cogs]

I logged on to see what my fellow Irish Fellas had to say about the call, but all I see is arguing.

 

[Redbar]

Actually, I didn't. What I said was that all of the elitist pricks on here constantly speak condescendingly about other boards. I did not say that everyone on this board was an elitist prick. Big difference. I suppose I might have worded it better, but it made perfect sense to me, in my head, as I typed it.

I get it and I know you are a good guy and mean well. Like I said I am not upset about anything. I thought it was a great game, I could not be any prouder of our guys. If we were a football first factory, I guess we could hang our heads, but Notre Dame and it's place in college football is more nuanced than that. We are about developing young men and building character on and off the field. In that sense there are moral victories and IMO our team beat that other team on the field and off in every way except one. I wouldn't trade any of the ways we show that we are winners for the one way we lost tonight. It is a great time to be Fighting Irish.

 

[GUknights75]

Wow... I just realized they gave FSU credit for an interception on that last play?

Not that it had any impact, but that's some absolute horseshit... he caught the ball a full step out of bounds. What were these refs smoking???

Didn't realize it until I saw an ESPN video talking about Golson's "two costly turnovers"... what a joke. Had zero impact on the game.

Also, hilarious to see ESPN announcers talking about FSU DBs "callign for the penalty." They literally did not complain at all to the refs. It was a coverage bust. They were complaining to each other about who was supposed to take who.

Unreal.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'll stop watching college football if the Irish fall out of the top ten after a performance like this. ND has 150 rushing to their 50 and outgained them total by 173 yards. Eff the score, ND was better tonight. 6th or 7th is the lowest we should go.

I have a feeling your going to stop watching college football. We'll probably drop at least 6 spots.

 

[BGIF]

Dude you honestly are one of my Heroes on this forum.... but WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING!!!!!! #20 GETS BEAR HUGGED AND # 7 TAKES A STEP OFF THE LOS AND MAKES A CUT INSIDE WHICH MAKES CONTACT WITH THE DEFENDER!!! IT LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY NORMAL FUKIN FOOTBALL PLAY!!!

I't's nice to hear that I'm one of your Heroes on this forum even as the other shoe falls. And though I do wear glasses, I don't need capital letters to read. I just had my eyes checked on Thursday and got a great report. Do you need the caps to see clearly tonight or did your caps lock just get stuck?

In the 9 years I've been posting on this site, I've been a passionate fan of Notre Dame, team and school, but I haven't been a homer nor do I post when drinking or overwrought with emotion. I root for my team but I praise the opponents that make good plays and I don't curse out my players when the other guys make an excellent plays. Nor do I hide behind the refs when we get beat ... or beat ourselves.

About a month ago I received a somewhat similar post to yours, something about being a long time valuable poster but in essence I was told to extricate my head from my rectum because I didn't know what I watching. It after the game where Redfield got flagged for a Targeting Hit. The popular commentary was "we got jobbed" there as well. "Bogus Call", "The Fix Was In" "Conference Refs are homers", blah, blah, blah.

I had commented that 10 years ago Redfield's hit would be on the day's decleater highlights but this year it's a foul and with all the focus on head injury prevention that kind of aggressive hit is going to be called more than it isn't. Refs have been told to watch for and to call it tight. It was pointed out that those same refs didn't call the guy that gave Trumbetti's a headache.

Anyway my opening sentence praiser went on to advise me that he had spoken to a couple of friends that ref HIGH SCHOOL ball and they told him it wasn't. I avoided the pissing contest with him as I hadn't spoken to HS ref acquaintances about a NCAA FBS rule. The information I posted was a paraphase from a conversation I had with an FBS Director of Officals. My neighbor came over after the came and we were talking about that hit and I mentioned that the bulk of ND fans thought we were robbed but I though it was the appropriate call considering the intent of the rule, head injury. My neighbor who is well connected in sports circles at the college level pulled out his cell phone and started talking to someone about Redfield's hit. He put the call on speaker and the three of us discussed the hit, the rule, and the call.

This individual requested anonymity which I respected, I made no mention of him in my post. He pointed out that according to the precise letter of the rule, Redfield's hit did not explictly compile with every word of the rule but the nature of his hit was clearly what FBS were being told to watch for and enforce today. He noted that 10 years ago Redfield would probably get a game ball for that hit. Today that same hit can get a player ejected.

I found it interestingly that although I paraphrased him pretty closely I was told I didn't know what I was talking about in the matter either.

Tonight Syria did what I've done many years on this board he posted the rule. Interesting that while he posted rule for discussion, the complainers avoided it preferring to talk about their glory days playing football and why it anecdotally wasn't an infraction.

phgreek didn't quote the rule but he described it pretty closely in his through commentary. Again the protesters didn't engage him in dialog.

But the best comment I heard all night was:

It was a penalty. I used to coach that play and that wasn't the way I taught it.

Those were Lou Holtz's words on ESPN's Final Countdown. Holtz obviously must be a guy with an axe to grind. Hmm, Hall of Fame Coach. Won a NC at ND. No brother-in-law that's a ref. Why would Holtz not walk in lockstep with the masses?

Should we wonder what Lou was watching. They ran an interesting segment on that nullified TD. First they played the clip. Then they discussed it. Then they broke to Fisher's post game presser where he commented that ND had run a similar play earlier in the game and he had brought that perceived pick to the ref's attention.

I found that interesting as just last week Kelly had called attention to UNC fouling the long snapper in violation of the rules. Sure enough UNC did it again and that time the official saw it and called it. That's called good coaching when it's your guy and gets call a conspiracy when that same tactic works for the other team.

In Kelly's presser he responded to a question that "I don't don't teach illegal plays." He would be stupid to do so. But you do teach your players how to play to the letter of the rule and hope the call goes your way. No he didn't teach them to make illegal plays. I submit they didn't do precisely what they were instructed. They overplayed their part and got caught.

On Final Countdown they then went to Robby's first TD and wow there is a similar play. That's the one Fisher pointed out to the officials.

Most teams use a pick or rub play but the difference is the offensive player has to walk a tight line between fair play and foul play. On the TDs are guys over did they job. They were so intent of blocking the defenders they forget they were supposed to be receivers. Had they done a reasonable job of deception ND wins. It was a well designed ball and Golson and Robby executed perfectly as did the OLine and RB. The other two receivers forgot to be receivers and as the rule Syria posted it's incumbent upon them to do so.

The LOS was the 2-1/2 yd line so one step into the endzone was "crossing the line".

ARTICLE 8. a. During a down in which a legal forward pass crosses the neutralMichigan
zone, illegal contact by Team A and Team B players is prohibited from the timeMichigan
the ball is snapped until it is touched by any player or an official (A.R. 7-3-8-II).
b. Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zoneMichigan
during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses theMichigan
neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player.MichiganIt isMichigan
the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents.Michigan

It is notMichiganoffensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1. When, after the snap, a Team A ineligible player immediately chargesMichigan
and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond theMichigan
neutral zone and does not continue the contact more than three yardsMichigan
beyond the neutral zone.
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bonaMichigan
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of eitherMichigan
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the areaMichigan
where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player inMichigan
that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.

 

[GUknights75]

ARTICLE 8. a. During a down in which a legal forward pass crosses the neutralMichigan
zone, illegal contact by Team A and Team B players is prohibited from the timeMichigan
the ball is snapped until it is touched by any player or an official (A.R. 7-3-8-II).
b. Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zoneMichigan
during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses theMichigan
neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player.MichiganIt isMichigan
the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents.Michigan

It is notMichiganoffensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1. When, after the snap, a Team A ineligible player immediately chargesMichigan
and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond theMichigan
neutral zone and does not continue the contact more than three yardsMichigan
beyond the neutral zone.
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bonaMichigan
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of eitherMichigan
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the areaMichigan
where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player inMichigan
that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.

oooh so according to the rule **** Michigan!

If you have a conversation with that ref will you at least explain why most ND fans think it's a bad call. What I think everyone on ESPN is avoiding is the question of defensive holding. They never mentioned in that segment the possibility of Ramsey holding Prosise, or the fact that Darby jumped in front of Fuller. If Golson threw the ball to either of Prosise or Fuller in that situation, would a flag have been thrown for defensive holding or PI?

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/YdgSYO1' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/YdgSYO1.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/02elM55' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/02elM55.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

From what I saw, Ramsey turns around after the play and starts to yell at Darby or the safety (not the refs) for not covering Robinson. Which leads me to believe he doesn't think he was being blocked and that he knew that he was holding CJ. Is it inconceivable that, knowing Fisher had alerted the refs, Ramsey held him on purpose to try and draw a call for picking?

It was a close play and IMO a bad call. Our boys played their hearts out and came up with a heart breaking L. Extremely proud of them today.

 

[BGIF]

oooh so according to the rule **** Michigan!

If you have a conversation with that ref will you at least explain why most ND fans think it's a bad call. What I think everyone on ESPN is avoiding is the question of defensive holding. They never mentioned in that segment the possibility of Ramsey holding Prosise, or the fact that Darby jumped in front of Fuller. If Golson threw the ball to either of Prosise or Fuller in that situation, would a flag have been thrown for defensive holding or PI?

From what I saw, Ramsey turns around after the play and starts to yell at Darby or the safety (not the refs) for not covering Robinson. Which leads me to believe he doesn't think he was being blocked and that he knew that he was holding CJ. Is it inconceivable that, knowing Fisher had alerted the refs, Ramsey held him on purpose to try and draw a call for picking?

It was a close play and IMO a bad call. Our boys played their hearts out and came up with a heart breaking L. Extremely proud of them today.

I won't be talking to that ref unless my neighbor calls him. I don't have his info or he mine. I can ask but it's not my relationship.

I also saw a defender turn and look at his teammates with a bodily language that struck me as, "WTF had him?" It reminded me of too many ND secondaries of the past two decades but I don't know what he said.

It's not inconceivable. The DB coach could have told them if they get picked to lock up and hope for a call similar to receivers selling P.I. or punters selling contact. Personally I think Fisher's comment at the presser about pointing out the pick on Robby's first TD, and Kelly telling the refs about UND roughing , the refs calling it after being advised are more likely.

IF the DBs coach did coach them to do that, his guys acted their part better than ours did.

Lou's, "It's a penalty!" was the coup de grâce. He hadn't been praising this team for most of the season to do a 180 and pull the rug out. He praised the team, praised their performance but called that play for what it was. "I didn't coach it that way" didn't sound like he saw a bad call.

 

[GUknights75]

Ok. Maybe the whiner thing was harsh. But I never specifically called anyone a whiner, I said, "Hardly ever called" is for whiners. If it is a foul, and you get caught, you got caught.

And I stand by that. You cannot complain that you got hosed because some foul is "hardly ever called". Try going to court and telling a judge, "I know that I was speeding, your Honor, but I am getting jacked up because the police hardly ever write tickets for that." If you did the crime, then you have to accept the punishment if you get caught.

From my experience, using your analogy, going 4 MPH over the speed limit is technically breaking the law. If you were ticketed and show up in traffic court, the judge would almost certainly throw the case out or reduce it to a non moving violation. My point being, if it's that close then don't throw the flag.

 

[GUknights75]

I won't be talking to that ref unless my neighbor calls him. I don't have his info or he mine. I can ask but it's not my relationship.

I also saw a defender turn and look at his teammates with a bodily language that struck me as, "WTF had him?" It reminded me of too many ND secondaries of the past two decades but I don't know what he said.

It's not inconceivable. The DB coach could have told them if they get picked to lock up and hope for a call similar to receivers selling P.I. or punters selling contact. Personally I think Fisher's comment at the presser about pointing out the pick on Robby's first TD, and Kelly telling the refs about UND roughing , the refs calling it after being advised are more likely.

IF the DBs coach did coach them to do that, his guys acted their part better than ours did.

Lou's, "It's a penalty!" was the coup de grâce. He hadn't been praising this team for most of the season to do a 180 and pull the rug out. He praised the team, praised their performance but called that play for what it was. "I didn't coach it that way" didn't sound like he saw a bad call.

Just to clarify, that's kind of what I'm saying. Knowing the refs would be looking for the pick play, he would be coached up to hold in order to draw the flag. Like in the UNC game if Kelly told Daly to hold his head down longer in order to draw the roughing penalty.

I was a little taken back when couch Holtz said that, but as the show went on I got the feeling he wasn't 100% convinced that it was a OPI. We don't know which angles he saw the play from and how many times he saw the replay (he is getting old haha). I know they had a few minute segment on the call, but they never looked at it through the view point that it was a bad call. In other words they didn't explain why it wasn't a defensive holding call.

 

[BGIF]

From my experience, using your analogy, going 4 MPH over the speed limit is technically breaking the law. If you were ticketed and show up in traffic court, the judge would almost certainly throw the case out or reduce it to a non moving violation. My point being, if it's that close then don't throw the flag.

Courtroom analogies are rarely applicable to sports or civil issues be it The Frozen Five, Winston's regulatory issues, UNC's academic scandal, Tattoogate, or the Bush Saga.

What might be more appropriate is a baseball manager walking up to an umpire and saying the pitcher is going to his hair between pitches, or he appears to be balking on his throws to first base. The umpire now alerted calls it the next time it happens. Similar to Kelly pointing out the UNC roughing the snapper and then it being called. Fisher bent the refs ear and the next time go the call. Basketball coaches make a livelihood out of that "watch the moving pick, ref."

Throw out the courtroom, throw out the baseball and basketball similarities. There's still Kelly complaing about roughing and getting the next call and Fisher complaining about setting picks and getting the next call. It's been happening since Rockne's time.

 

[BGIF]

Just to clarify, that's kind of what I'm saying. Knowing the refs would be looking for the pick play, he would be coached up to hold in order to draw the flag. Like in the UNC game if Kelly told Daly to hold his head down longer in order to draw the roughing penalty.

I was a little taken back when couch Holtz said that, but as the show went on I got the feeling he wasn't 100% convinced that it was a OPI. We don't know which angles he saw the play from and how many times he saw the replay (he is getting old haha). I know they had a few minute segment on the call, but they never looked at it through the view point that it was a bad call. In other words they didn't explain why it wasn't a defensive holding call.

I didn't get a feeling. Holtz didn't mince any words:

It was a penalty. I used to coach that play and that wasn't the way I taught it.

The second sentence even more compelling. That wasn't Mark May or Finebaum making controversy that was a Notre Dame National Championship Winning Hall of Fame Coach speaking definitely. He didn't quibble. He was emphatic.

 

[aubeirish]

- Gutsy performance by the boys.
- Horse shit call by the refs. Just terrible.
- A great celebration on my part that turned to ridicule.
- A display of acting by Fisher trying to convince America that Winston is a great role model that makes me want to puke my gut.
- If you are going to loose a game, might as well be this way.

 

[blackirish]

An absolute bullshit garbage call.

I hate it like you do, but it was a legit call.

 

[GUknights75]

I didn't get a feeling. Holtz didn't mince any words:



The second sentence even more compelling. That wasn't Mark May or Finebaum making controversy that was a Notre Dame National Championship Winning Hall of Fame Coach speaking definitely. He didn't quibble. He was emphatic.

My main point is that ESPN is saying that without a doubt that both Prosise and Fuller were blocking on that play when much of the ND fan base and other CFB fans don't see it the same way. They keep showing that same freeze frame of contact between the DBs and WRs, but there is a whole story before that misleading frame that they neglect to acknowledge. It wont change the outcome of the game, it's over, we lost, but don't just say it's Prosise' and Fullers fault cut and dry. (ESPN, not you)

 

[EuropeanDomer]

- Golson had a great night, he showed toughness and leadership.

- Another good game for Folston. He is Kelly's favorite (you notice that when he talks about him). He loves him. He does not love Bryant so much lol

- Best game of the season for the OL, they were outstanding.

- Corey Robinson with the best game of his career. Prosise and Fuller with good games as well. Carlisle was awful.

- Another brilliant game for the best unit of this team (DL). They are the real MVPs, again. Rochell is a serious thing.

- Jaylon was just OK like against NC, i expected more from him. Schmidt was good and Onwualu is just incapable of make plays or have any type of impact on the game. I suspect he will be benched soon.

- Secondary was just decent.


Great game overall. I think we lost the game on the second half. They destroyed our middle of the field between the LBs and the safeties and the blitzes were not effective. I am very happy with the team. Onto the next. Go Irish!

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

Sitting at Jacksonville airport still stewing about how we got jobbed. Hard to go from such elation to listening to the nonsense being spewed all the way back to my vehicle...ND played a great game. The offense in particular was outstanding. Golson really was the best player on the field last night. Hope we can win out and get another shot at these guys because I came away knowing in my heart that we are the better team.

 

[Irish2155]

- Golson had a great night, he showed toughness and leadership.

- Another good game for Folston. He is Kelly's favorite (you notice that when he talks about him). He loves him. He does not love Bryant so much lol

- Best game of the season for the OL, they were outstanding.

- Corey Robinson with the best game of his career. Prosise and Fuller with good games as well. Carlisle was awful.

- Another brilliant game for the best unit of this team (DL). They are the real MVPs, again. Rochell is a serious thing.

- Jaylon was just OK like against NC, i expected more from him. Schmidt was good and Onwualu is just incapable of make plays or have any type of impact on the game. I suspect he will be benched soon.

- Secondary was just decent.


Great game overall. I think we lost the game on the second half. They destroyed our middle of the field between the LBs and the safeties and the blitzes were not effective. I am very happy with the team. Onto the next. Go Irish!

MOST importantly, we showed the WORLD we can play with anybody.

Everybody else with a loss got smacked around. We should have won, arguably did.

 

[Irish2155]

Mark May says put them behind Oregon and TCU...LOL. Along with Auburn and 'Bama, which I can kind of understand.

Myself personally, 'Bama 4 ND 5...

Then those undefeated teams we can most certainly beat.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

My main point is that ESPN is saying that without a doubt that both Prosise and Fuller were blocking on that play when much of the ND fan base and other CFB fans don't see it the same way. They keep showing that same freeze frame of contact between the DBs and WRs, but there is a whole story before that misleading frame that they neglect to acknowledge. It wont change the outcome of the game, it's over, we lost, but don't just say it's Prosise' and Fullers fault cut and dry. (ESPN, not you)

Fuck ESPN

 

[NDRock]

Now we've got to root for FSU to win out, meaning rooting for Winston not to get suspended. I'll be pissed if hey do suspend him now and fuck us over.