'12 WA RB Keivarae Russell (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

[RDU Irish]

KVR is rightfully pissed. I cannot imagine how angry I would be if I was drug through the mud for no good reason with no end in sight. I credit him for breaking his silence being that he waited until after the hearing to do so. Nothing more obnoxious than getting involved in a (pseudo) legal process with an end date given only to reach that end date with a bunch of dipshits refusing to provide closure. All you lawyers on this board can defend "process" all day but I can only say the lack of cajones in "law" to just call a spade a spade is fvcking ridiculous and immoral.

 

[kmoose]

KVR is rightfully pissed. I cannot imagine how angry I would be if I was drug through the mud for no good reason with no end in sight.

No one has accused any one of these guys with anything. I can understand people saying that they are upset that these guys missed out on playing some games, but we need to keep it in perspective: NO ONE I know thinks that these guys have cheated. They were simply part of an investigation. And, during said investigation, they were held out of football activities.

 

[pkt77242]

No one has accused any one of these guys with anything. I can understand people saying that they are upset that these guys missed out on playing some games, but we need to keep it in perspective: NO ONE I know thinks that these guys have cheated. They were simply part of an investigation. And, during said investigation, they were held out of football activities.

You are kidding right? They wouldn't be going in front of the committee if they weren't accused of cheating.

 

[ND NYC]

I get that but it takes time to research, interview, debate, etc and as I understand it there are students involved on the other side. Is it fair to them to burn the candles at both ends in order to investigate a suspected cheating case that extends into the past and may involve multiple students and a possible employee?

i see it and understand it as: the investigation was concluded on august 29th.
the time it has taken from Aug 29 until this week of the honesty hearings there has been nothing at all happening except: forming the actual committee, then once formed, assigning a date for the hearings to take place.
surely forming a committee and holding the hearings could have taken place sooner.

unless ND kept investigating after they announced the investigation had concluded? and that poses a whole new set of issues

 

[irish o'phile]

By game 5-6, these guys have basically lost half the season. What if it is determined that some of these guys have not done anything wrong? That is totally unfair to and inconsiderate of the players involved.

I typically would say just make sure things are done right. However, in this case, ND looks unorganized. There seems to be no urgency or hussle. This whole thing seems bush league.

 

[IrishLax]

By game 5-6, these guys have basically lost half the season. What if it is determined that some of these guys have not done anything wrong? That is totally unfair to and inconsiderate of the players involved.

I typically would say just make sure things are done right. However, in this case, ND looks unorganized. There seems to be no urgency or hussle. This whole thing seems bush league.

Yeah, the whole issue continues to be that they held kids out of participation while not having anything wrapped up. They did this because of the NCAA implications, because it's a complex situation with a volunteer trainer who went on part time payroll and etc. etc. They didn't want to have more exposure on account of playing these kids if they had committed violations or were otherwise ineligible.

Any other scenario involving potential general academic misconduct, they would've been allowed to participate until it was actually concluded that they did in fact do something not only wrong, but that warranted suspension or expulsion. ND jumped the gun, because they wanted to operate conservatively.

 

[Cackalacky]

i see it and understand it as: the investigation was concluded on august 29th.

I understand that it was when the players involved were notified they were under suspicion but investigation continued and BK made the decision to hold them out of activities. The investigation was not over.

EDIT: Going back and looking the only thing that happened on August 29 was a DD tweet "..." Obviously things were moving before then but I dont think there close to final.

unless ND kept investigating after they announced the investigation had concluded? and that poses a whole new set of issues

Not sure its a whole new set. The players implicated were notified they were under suspicion in August. Since then, BK removed them from football related activities, the investigation continued, those involved grew in number as Hardy was added to the initial 4 plus rumors of past players, it was revealed a paid employee was involved, the General Counsel became involved, a second press conference was held..... No way the investigation ended in lat August.

 

[kmoose]

You are kidding right? They wouldn't be going in front of the committee if they weren't accused of cheating.

I don't know if that is true or not. Is the committee the stage after the investigation, or is it a part of the investigation itself? I have not heard anyone at ND say that these guys cheated.

 

[pkt77242]

I don't know if that is true or not. Is the committee the stage after the investigation, or is it a part of the investigation itself? I have not heard anyone at ND say that these guys cheated.

Only if they are accused of cheating (or I guess knowing that someone cheated and not reporting) do they end up in front of the committee. This is no longer part of the investigation, this is more like the trial after the investigation.

I agree that ND hasn't stated publicly that they have cheated but the fact that they have to appear in front of the committee is in a way proof that someone at ND believes that they cheated and that they found enough during the investigation to have to go before the committee, though it doesn't mean that they will be found guilty of cheating.

 

[T Town Tommy]

My outside unbiased opinion....

The school prides itself on academics way over football. They are going to do whatever it takes to protect the integrity of the school first. If it means that the players miss half the season or never play another down in order for them to maintain their integrity, then that's what it means.

Is it fair to the players involved? We don't know because we don't know the facts. Should it be finalized by now? We don't know because we don't know the extent of what the investigation may have uncovered or how far back the school had to go in order to find the facts.

In the end, I believe the school will have shown that they had legitimate reasons for taking so long. Their academic integrity depends on it... not whether five football players get to play or not.

 

[kmoose]

Only if they are accused of cheating (or I guess knowing that someone cheated and not reporting) do they end up in front of the committee. This is no longer part of the investigation, this is more like the trial after the investigation.

I agree that ND hasn't stated publicly that they have cheated but the fact that they have to appear in front of the committee is in a way proof that someone at ND believes that they cheated and that they found enough during the investigation to have to go before the committee, though it doesn't mean that they will be found guilty of cheating.

I still maintain that no one has "dragged them through the mud". It's not like ND has taken out billboards, or gone on talk shows, to make a case for these guys having cheated.

 

[ND NYC]

I understand that it was when the players involved were notified they were under suspicion but investigation continued and BK made the decision to hold them out of activities. The investigation was not over.

EDIT: Going back and looking the only thing that happened on August 29 was a DD tweet "..." Obviously things were moving before then but I dont think there close to final.


Not sure its a whole new set. The players implicated were notified they were under suspicion in August. Since then, BK removed them from football related activities, the investigation continued, those involved grew in number as Hardy was added to the initial 4 plus rumors of past players, it was revealed a paid employee was involved, the General Counsel became involved, a second press conference was held..... No way the investigation ended in lat August.

respectfully i disagree with your entire timeline and interpretation of events cack.
im 99.9% sure the ivestigation phase was in fact wrapped up last week of august could have been the 28th, the 29th dont recall exact date. BK held initial 4 players out beginning aug 15th thats the date he was notified there was an investigation underway that started on july 29.

 

[pkt77242]

I still maintain that no one has "dragged them through the mud". It's not like ND has taken out billboards, or gone on talk shows, to make a case for these guys having cheated.

I don't think that they have been dragged through the mud (well that initial press conference was pretty rough), just that they have been accused of cheating.

 

[ND NYC]

I still maintain that no one has "dragged them through the mud". It's not like ND has taken out billboards, or gone on talk shows, to make a case for these guys having cheated.

well, ND did have a press conference given by the Presdient of the University and the Athletic Director and they "named names" and used the words like "academic dishonesty".

in this day and age that reaches far more than any billboard would.

 

[gkIrish]

SIAP but

shiiiiiiit this is on ESPN's front page


KeiVarae Russell -- Notre Dame 'becoming ridiculous' - ESPN

 

[stlnd01]

They probably shouldn't have named names, but hard to see what other choice they really had. Names were already getting out, and better to be in front of the story than behind (as learned via Teo, Seeburg sagas).
Otherwise, what 'Bama Tommy said is spot on. ND has bigger priorities here than KVR's lost half season. That's actually a good thing, even if they might've handled this better.

 

[kmoose]

well, ND did have a press conference given by the Presdient of the University and the Athletic Director and they "named names" and used the words like "academic dishonesty".

in this day and age that reaches far more than any billboard would.

ONE time the University addressed it. And imagine the media frenzy that would have followed, if they hadn't?

 

[NDdomer2]

I don't know if that is true or not. Is the committee the stage after the investigation, or is it a part of the investigation itself? I have not heard anyone at ND say that these guys cheated.

No one has come out and said these guys have cheated. But lets take a look at some of KVR's comments yesterday:

Hearing went well in my opinion though. Was able to express my case from my POV and bring to light alot of what was false "evidence"...

also:

I was so prepared and ready and was able to refute damn near every suspicion they had. Described details of assignments thoroughly so they couldnt say I didnt do it.

If he isn't being accused of anything why would he need to refute false evidence or suspicions. And why would they be saying he did or didn't something?

 

[ulukinatme]

SIAP but

shiiiiiiit this is on ESPN's front page


KeiVarae Russell -- Notre Dame 'becoming ridiculous' - ESPN

Yeah, can't really fault him at this point, unless the committee has found something and still views him as guilty. If he's not really guilty in all this he'll still most likely end up missing the Stanford game which will make it the 5th game he's missed possibly unnecessarily. That's almost half the season, I would start stirring up stuff too. Maybe they'll decide to change the process.

 

[kmoose]

No one has come out and said these guys have cheated. But lets take a look at some of KVR's comments yesterday:

But that was the point that I was trying to make. Not that no one, literally, has ever said that they cheated, but in response to people saying that the school had dragged these guys and their reputations through the mud. No one at ND was shouting from mountaintops about the guilt of these guys. In fact, the University was, in hindsight, perhaps presciently silent on the matter. About all they said was that the process was in motion, and progressing(albeit slowly).

 

[NDdomer2]

But that was the point that I was trying to make. Not that no one, literally, has ever said that they cheated, but in response to people saying that the school had dragged these guys and their reputations through the mud. No one at ND was shouting from mountaintops about the guilt of these guys. In fact, the University was, in hindsight, perhaps presciently silent on the matter. About all they said was that the process was in motion, and progressing(albeit slowly).

That I agree with. I was just quoting him more in response to this statement from you:

No one has accused any one of these guys with anything.

Which I think from KVR's statements doesn't seem true.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Yeah, the whole issue continues to be that they held kids out of participation while not having anything wrapped up. They did this because of the NCAA implications, because it's a complex situation with a volunteer trainer who went on part time payroll and etc. etc. They didn't want to have more exposure on account of playing these kids if they had committed violations or were otherwise ineligible.

Any other scenario involving potential general academic misconduct, they would've been allowed to participate until it was actually concluded that they did in fact do something not only wrong, but that warranted suspension or expulsion. ND jumped the gun, because they wanted to operate conservatively.

This whole time I've been wondering why they were held out given that they're just under investigation and haven't actually been convicted. It struck me as a guilty until proven innocent situation, which obviously is not supposed to happen. However, LAX's post answers this by reminding us that the trainer who is wrapped up in this, was "on staff" and would have had knowledge of the cheating. Hence the NCAA violation. Had it not been for the trainer, these guys would still be playing until otherwise proven guilty of misconduct.

Thanks for the post, LAX. +1

As far as the timing: My gut is fired up about it taking so long. My heart feels for the players. But my brain tells me that ND is good at what they do and this has taken so long for a good reason.

 

[kmoose]

That I agree with. I was just quoting him more in response to this statement from you: Which I think from KVR's statements doesn't seem true.

Ah, ok. I was misunderstanding the process, when I said that. I was assuming that the committee hearings were still a part of the investigatory process.

 

[NDdomer2]

Ah, ok. I was misunderstanding the process, when I said that. I was assuming that the committee hearings were still a part of the investigatory process.

im still not sure anyone outside ND understands the process in it's entirety. It would be helpful that once these things are finished the school provides a statement summarizing the timeline. Not going to hold my breath but would be helpful for sure.

 

[Irish8248]

Can we move this stuff to the rumored violations thread? We get it, the time frame is past due and mailing a decision is archaic. The rest is speculation and we still don't know anything

 

[kmoose]

im still not sure anyone outside ND understands the process in it's entirety. It would be helpful that once these things are finished the school provides a statement summarizing the timeline. Not going to hold my breath but would be helpful for sure.

That's what we have BGIF for....

 

[ND NYC]

Can we move this stuff to the rumored violations thread? We get it, the time frame is past due and mailing a decision is archaic. The rest is speculation and we still don't know anything

another one on Cali Domers payroll....these guys are everywhere!

 

[Ironman8]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BREAKING: KeiVarae Russell out for year, plans to return in 2015 <a href="http://t.co/GdltZ6Ixp3">http://t.co/GdltZ6Ixp3</a></p>— Keith Arnold (@KeithArnold) <a href="https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/status/520660821534195712">October 10, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[#1rish]

Fuck.

 

[dad4aa]

Anyone know if this is out of school for a year or out of football for a year?