Keith Arnold on the burden of being a white DE from New Jersey

BobbyMac

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Interesting responses.

I guess I found it odd that it was said being that JJ Watt is the best defensive player in the league and outside of the top 5 QB's maybe the best in all of football... and he comes from similar demographics as Trumbetti.

Also... If I remember correctly, didn't Trumbetti crush other lineman in the skills challenge at last year's all star game? I saw him run and remember him having the fastest time, he may have even won the overall competition(?)... didn't see it all to know for sure.
I'm sure Mr. Arnold saw that or at least heard about it..

My point is... The days of questioning (or in this case mentioning) if a white guy can be an athletic DE from NJ are over. Since the position at it's highest level has been dominated by a white guy from Wisconsin and a white guy from Idaho for the past decade. Had it been a white CB from NJ, I would have said, " I hear ya Keith... can't believe you were able to put this on an NBC website but thanks for not being PC-phobic"

This is something I grew up with... The white guy who could jump higher than everybody so I always had to talk about it when to me, it was a non issue. I mean if geography means anything about physical attributes... I was born in Gary, IN... I should be able to jump, right?

Blacks and whites have shed the labels in this generation. White guys are playing WR and RB in the League and black QB's aren't questioned like days past... the best rapper has been white, the best golfer black and the President of the USA is multi-racial. Anything is possible for any person in this country.
 
wizards8507

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You're reading Arnold's point exactly backwards. He's making the exact same point you're trying to make. See below.

NDCrusader said:
I guess I found it odd that it was said being that JJ Watt is the best defensive player in the league and outside of the top 5 QB's maybe the best in all of football... and he comes from similar demographics as Trumbetti.
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Exactly! JJ Watt is otherworldly and he was still only a two-star recruit on Rivals. His evaluations weren't a fair reflection of his skill set because he wasn't perceived to be as elite as he turned out to be.

NDCrusader said:
Also... If I remember correctly, didn't Trumbetti crush other lineman in the skills challenge at last year's all star game? I saw him run and remember him having the fastest time, he may have even won the overall competition(?)... didn't see it all to know for sure.
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Again, that's exactly Arnold's point. If a black player from Florida put up similar numbers, he would have been more than a three-star.

NDCrusader said:
My point is... The days of questioning (or in this case mentioning) if a white guy can be an athletic DE from NJ are over.
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Arnold isn't questioning that fact. He's criticizing the people who DO question that fact, whether overtly or subconsciously.

NOT THIS: White kids from NJ can't be elite players.
THIS: White kids from NJ have an uphill battled CONVINCING people they're elite players.
 
irishfan

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So we have JJ Watt and Jared Allen....any other white DEs in the NFL who are All-Pros?

I'd love to know how many of the 64 starting DEs in the NFL are white. Somewhere between 2-8 I would guess. Seems like Keith is just making a good point.
 
gkIrish

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irishfan said:
So we have JJ Watt and Jared Allen....any other white DEs in the NFL who are All-Pros?

I'd love to know how many of the 64 starting DEs in the NFL are white. Somewhere between 2-8 I would guess. Seems like Keith is just making a good point.
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Justin Smith and Chris Long off the top of my head.
 
BobbyMac

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wizards8507 said:
You're reading Arnold's point exactly backwards. He's making the exact same point you're trying to make. See below.


Exactly! JJ Watt is otherworldly and he was still only a two-star recruit on Rivals. His evaluations weren't a fair reflection of his skill set because he wasn't perceived to be as elite as he turned out to be.


Again, that's exactly Arnold's point. If a black player from Florida put up similar numbers, he would have been more than a three-star.


Arnold isn't questioning that fact. He's criticizing the people who DO question that fact, whether overtly or subconsciously.

NOT THIS: White kids from NJ can't be elite players.
THIS: White kids from NJ have an uphill battled CONVINCING people they're elite players.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying and how you took this...

Had it been a white RB from NJ it makes sense to mention it but WHO was he writing that to? Who reading a focused website like that doesn't know that white guys from north can be dominant as DE's?... It's obvious he can be as good as anyone athletically, the proof is in the NFL.

If he wants to throw a jab at the stereotypers, write a story on Trumbetti, Bosa, Watt and Allen, entitled... "White Guys Can Rush" and post it on BR or NBCS.com. But that little snippet he put certainly can be taken a multitude of ways and if by chance someone still living in the 'White Men Can't Jump' mentality reads it, it just perpetuates the myth. And you know the guys who I refer to... the ones whose minds are still blown that Warren Moon was a pocket passer...

Good stuff Wiz... always a pleasure to read you posts.


.
 
Emcee77

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I agree with most of you that there's nothing here to get bent out of shape about. Keith was just saying that there is a perception out there that a white guy from the Northeast is less likely to be an elite athlete.

I guess I'm surprised there is any doubt about that. Those of us who remember the Alex Anzalone recruitment remember that, although he was one of our most-wanted recruits that cycle, UF fans were very cool on him because he was a white guy from the Northeast. Do I think that attitude is ignorant? Absolutely. Anzalone is a great athlete with the makings of a great LB and I was crushed when he ditched us. But I don't think Keith is out of line at all by acknowledging that that point of view is out there.
 
BobbyMac

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irishfan said:
So we have JJ Watt and Jared Allen....any other white DEs in the NFL who are All-Pros?

I'd love to know how many of the 64 starting DEs in the NFL are white. Somewhere between 2-8 I would guess. Seems like Keith is just making a good point.
Click to expand...

Not the point how many...

Once ONE does it, in this case two... and are the best at it for an extended amount of time why would you question if another could?

Do you question if a another white kid will ever sell 50 million rap albums again? Or if another black guy will win a PGA golf tournament.... or for that matter black man becomes President again? No. They will all happen and to mention if any single person has the ability because of their skin color or where they are from is not needed.... especially when its already been done at the highest level.

.
 
Sureal

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wizards8507 said:
Not to mention the fact that "African American" has a very specific meaning that's different from the way in which it's used. Most of those "white people in the burbs" would see David Ortiz or Nelson Mandela walking down the street and, if asked the race of the person they saw, respond "African-American," even though Ortiz is Dominican-American (nationality), Mandela South African (nationality), and they're both black (race). Neither one is "African American."
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I'm black...and I'm not Charlie Therzon (African-American) or whatever her name is. I have never been to Africa even though I plan on going for missionary purposes. So no I am an American that happens to be black.

*Try being black and a conservative as I am and you'll be told you're white. lol

In regards to the original post, I tend to think that is why New England kids don't get recruited that much...or we just plain suck up here.
 
RDU Irish

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Sureal said:
I'm black...and I'm not Charlie Therzon (African-American) or whatever her name is. I have never been to Africa even though I plan on going for missionary purposes. So no I am an American that happens to be black.

*Try being black and a conservative as I am and you'll be told you're white. lol

In regards to the original post, I tend to think that is why New England kids don't get recruited that much...or we just plain suck up here.
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You're white. Freakin' honkey.
 
G

ginman

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The only people Trumbetti needs to impress right now are the coaches. I'm pretty sure they don't give a michigan what color he is- just that he can play. We will find out soon enough!
 
RDU Irish

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Amen, ginman. If the biases mean we have a five star DE on our hands, I'll take it.
 
irishfan

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Sureal said:
I'm black...and I'm not Charlie Therzon (African-American) or whatever her name is. I have never been to Africa even though I plan on going for missionary purposes. So no I am an American that happens to be black.

*Try being black and a conservative as I am and you'll be told you're white. lol

In regards to the original post, I tend to think that is why New England kids don't get recruited that much...or we just plain suck up here.
Click to expand...

I think we kind of suck at football up here unfortunately lol.
 
wizards8507

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irishfan said:
I think we kind of suck at football up here unfortunately lol.
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Yeah I was a white DL/TE from Rhode Island and my lack of recruitment probably had something to do with being 5'11" and 180 lbs with zero discernible upper body strength. I was an all-state volleyball player though, so suck on that big time college football!
 
IrishSteelhead

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JJ Watt is almost 80 pounds heavier now than when he left high school, and he started as a TE. I doubt many recruiters thought he could add that much weight.

Ryan Kerrigan provides a better argument. He was from a crappy football state, put on the "average" amount of weight, and blew people away.
 
BobbyMac

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IrishSteelhead said:
JJ Watt is almost 80 pounds heavier now than when he left high school, and he started as a TE. I doubt many recruiters thought he could add that much weight.

Ryan Kerrigan provides a better argument. He was from a crappy football state, put on the "average" amount of weight, and blew people away.
Click to expand...

Another great example Steelie which further proves the point: They have the athletic ability and they didn't come from Texas, California or SEC states.
 
Fbolt

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I think it's a BS reference.

Shoe on the other foot-mass outrage.
 
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That extremely bad. Its almost like saying black people from Ferguson, Missouri wont be able to get through classes at Notre Dame. Stereo types are the worst and show the biggest signs of ignorance.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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wizards8507 said:
Yeah I was a white DL/TE from Rhode Island and my lack of recruitment probably had something to do with being 5'11" and 180 lbs with zero discernible upper body strength. I was an all-state volleyball player though, so suck on that big time college football!
Click to expand...

Wait, Wiz, you are from Rhode Island? That explains it!

IlovethehireofCoachKelly said:
That extremely bad. Its almost like saying black people from Ferguson, Missouri wont be able to get through classes at Notre Dame. Stereo types are the worst and show the biggest signs of ignorance.
Click to expand...

(I hate those new stereo radios too!)

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x3m5l8" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m5l8_you-can-t-hit-albert-finney_shortfilms" target="_blank">You Can't Hit Albert Finney!</a> <i>by <a> href="http://www.dailymotion.com/cliporama2" target="_blank">cliporama2</a></i>
 
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