Rumored Violations

Status
Not open for further replies.

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
He may be gone but this article proves nothing. We need to ignore.

This is the first bit of news I find at all interesting. Ishaq Williams has been singled out by two of the 4 largest news sources as being dismissed from Notre Dame.. not just football.

I can't find anything that shows Feldman saying this on Fox. So NBC, through affiliate Rotoworld is sourcing Fox's Feldman on this.

Either they are right... or Ishaq just got his first big check because of football.

If you're laying money, you have to go with NBC and Fox having something. They don't like to write big checks because they get it wrong... and as a percentage, they rarely do.

.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

Well-known member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
2,457
This is the first bit of news I find at all interesting. Ishaq Williams has been singled out by two of the 4 largest news sources as being dismissed from Notre Dame.. not just football.

I can't find anything that shows Feldman saying this on Fox. So NBC, through affiliate Rotoworld is sourcing Fox's Feldman on this.

Either they are right... or Ishaq just got his first big check because of football.

If you're laying money, you have to go with NBC and Fox having something. They don't like to write big checks because they get it wrong... and as a percentage, they rarely do.

.

Rotoworld might just single him out because he is a former 5 :s: who has been appearing on movk drafts due to his physical potential.
 

Emcee77

latress on the men-jay
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
555
I am pretty sure that this is a recycled article that they just re-posted as of today. So we should not let these kinds of statements get any legs. Feldman was wrong before, and this most recent link states nothing new.

This. I don't think this is news.
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
What I meant was could Ishaq sue the rotoworld for defamation. Could Notre dame sue rotoworld for defamation if what they stated is false.

They can all sue each other... hell, that's America.. Ishaq will have a case if he wasn't dismissed as of that posting. He has to sue NBC/Rotoworld. What NBC's recourse with Fox and Feldman is... I have no idea.

.
 

WakeUpEchoes

New member
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
101
John Feinstein on this morning saying that all of BK, Swarbrick, and Jenkins should be gone. I literally could not believe my ears until he said it again, and again, and again. Said that Jenkins is too "businessy."
 

Emcee77

latress on the men-jay
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
555
ND would have to prove actual malice.. very very unlikely

Right, and it has to have been damaged.

I agree, no one is suing anyone over this. One false or misleading report on the Internet is nothing.
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
I am pretty sure that this is a recycled article that they just re-posted as of today. So we should not let these kinds of statements get any legs. Feldman was wrong before, and this most recent link states nothing new.

Wake... This is different language.

This isn't vague like the original sloppy reporting. This is focused and it entails the university, not just football.

@ of the giants names are attached to it... that's a lot of people checking it and approving it. Smart people who don't go to press without getting it right... in most cases.

Not good for Ishaq's playing career in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
John Feinstein on this morning saying that all of BK, Swarbrick, and Jenkins should be gone. I literally could not believe my ears until he said it again, and again, and again. Said that Jenkins is too "businessy."

..... because?

Because students did something 80% of students do and we were diligent enough to catch it and then investigate?

Who is John Feinstein?
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
John Feinstein on this morning saying that all of BK, Swarbrick, and Jenkins should be gone. I literally could not believe my ears until he said it again, and again, and again. Said that Jenkins is too "businessy."


Screw that WEASEL. Screw everything about him.

I wish they'd test ebola vaccines on him.
 

WakeUpEchoes

New member
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
101
Feinstein is on CBS's morning radio show. National guy. Notorious for hating ND and Tiger Woods. But he is really the first I've heard calling for people's heads. He also had some guests where it was painstakingly obvious he was forcing the issue of BK being on the hot seat.
 

WakeUpEchoes

New member
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
101
Wake... This is different language.

This is vague like the original sloppy reporting. This is focused and it entails the university, not just football.

@ of the giants names are attached to it... that's a lot of people checking it and approving it. Smart people who don't go to press without getting it right... in most cases.

Not good for Ishaq's playing career in my opinion.

I agree the first part is new language. But that first part also says "according to Bruce Feldman." They then quote Feldman again in the next sentence:

"The school conducted an internal investigation this summer, sources close to the program told FOX Sports,"

But this is recycled language from two days ago. Idk. I just don't get it, and with the way sports journalists have handled this so far I'm on going on the assumption that no one is right.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Also, even if it is widespread, cheating is a big deal to Universities. Underage drinking is illegal, but drinking is accepted as fine once you are of sufficient age to be responsible with it. When you are old enough is a matter of debate and people wisely don't pretend that the arbitrary number (21) represents anything moral. On the other hand, cheating is never fine morally.

The moral case against academic cheating is usually pretty nuanced. If a teacher is grading on a curve, then improving one's score through cheating directly harms another student; in that case, it's pretty cut and dry. But few classes are graded on a curve at ND. So where's the harm in boosting my grade then, when my improved score doesn't directly harm someone else? It's internal to the cheater; but that's simply not a valid consideration for most people today due to our culture.

Cheating is a problem that cuts right to the heart of a university: providing society with well-educated, reliable citizens.

There are plenty of well-educated and reliable cheaters out there. Academic fraud is especially problematic for a school like ND because it aspires to the proper moral formation of its students. But ND's influence is limited because its students are already 18-years-old when they arrive on campus. Much of their moral formation has already taken place.

The American education system is overwhelmingly instrumental-- curriculum is oriented towards teaching one practical skills for: (1) getting into a good school; so that one can ultimately (2) get the highest paying job possible. Focusing exclusively on such extrinsic goals means that internal goods--like integrity, honesty, etc.-- get short shrift, because they don't directly lead to better "outcomes". Thus, the ends are always justified by the means. If I don't caught, and no one got hurt, what's the problem?

I also hope the investigation gives the students the benefit of the doubt at every turn--innocent until proven guilty.

I hope ND is moving forward with the best interests of the four players in mind, and not with an eye toward making an example of them as a way of safe-guarding its reputation. Cheating is endemic everywhere because of deep-seated problems within our culture. Publicly sacrificing a few athletes is not going to suddenly fix those problems at ND. I see lots of parallels with the alcohol-related issues on campus; and I hope ND handles these players like they handled Floyd.
 

dublinirish

Everestt Gholstonson
Messages
27,308
Reaction score
13,086
we all gotta put this cheating thing in perspective.

BYU suspended a player for having earrings.

Roll on the Rice game.
 

enrico514

New member
Messages
1,188
Reaction score
45
The moral case against academic cheating is usually pretty nuanced. If a teacher is grading on a curve, then improving one's score through cheating directly harms another student; in that case, it's pretty cut and dry. But few classes are graded on a curve at ND. So where's the harm in boosting my grade then, when my improved score doesn't directly harm someone else? It's internal to the cheater; but that's simply not a valid consideration for most people today due to our culture.



There are plenty of well-educated and reliable cheaters out there. Academic fraud is especially problematic for a school like ND because it aspires to the proper moral formation of its students. But ND's influence is limited because its students are already 18-years-old when they arrive on campus. Much of their moral formation has already taken place.

The American education system is overwhelmingly instrumental-- curriculum is oriented towards teaching one practical skills for: (1) getting into a good school; so that one can ultimately (2) get the highest paying job possible. Focusing exclusively on such extrinsic goals means that internal goods--like integrity, honesty, etc.-- get short shrift, because they don't directly lead to better "outcomes". Thus, the ends are always justified by the means. If I don't caught, and no one got hurt, what's the problem?



I hope ND is moving forward with the best interests of the four players in mind, and not with an eye toward making an example of them as a way of safe-guarding its reputation. Cheating is endemic everywhere because of deep-seated problems within our culture. Publicly sacrificing a few athletes is not going to suddenly fix those problems at ND. I see lots of parallels with the alcohol-related issues on campus; and I hope ND handles these players like they handled Floyd.

So do I. I think they handled the Floyd situation brilliantly. Kid screwed up and got punished but they also allowed him to redeem himself.
 

NDohio

Well-known member
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
3,060
He wrote the infamous book on Bobby Knight A season on the Brink.

Not a big fan of his. What was his reasoning?
 

gkIrish

Greek God
Messages
13,184
Reaction score
1,004
The moral case against academic cheating is usually pretty nuanced. If a teacher is grading on a curve, then improving one's score through cheating directly harms another student; in that case, it's pretty cut and dry. But few classes are graded on a curve at ND. So where's the harm in boosting my grade then, when my improved score doesn't directly harm someone else? It's internal to the cheater; but that's simply not a valid consideration for most people today due to our culture.

Actually the entire business school is graded on a curve.
 

Polish Leppy 22

Well-known member
Messages
6,594
Reaction score
2,009
Don't know about you guys but I have a few friends who love to hate ND. If the place burned to the ground tomorrow, they'd make the trip there to roast marshmellows.

Two are claiming BK should be fired for the Sullivan accident, the Seeberg case, and now 2 academic things.
 

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
Anyone know who wrote Season on the Brink? Read that the other week and it was such a fine book!!
 

WakeUpEchoes

New member
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
101
He wrote the infamous book on Bobby Knight A season on the Brink.

Not a big fan of his. What was his reasoning?

Don't know about you guys but I have a few friends who love to hate ND. If the place burned to the ground tomorrow, they'd make the trip there to roast marshmellows.

Two are claiming BK should be fired for the Sullivan accident, the Seeberg case, and now 2 academic things.

His reasoning was basically this.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Actually the entire business school is graded on a curve.

Every single class in Mendoza? I had assumed that most such classes would be found in business and the hard sciences, but I'm surprised it's across the board.

Regardless, they're extremely rare in Arts and Leisure, so my assertion still stands. We outnumber the business bros and STEM-bots by a lot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top