A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Bran is going to become the Old Gods reincarnate, and will be there to watch from a distance as the Stark bloodline once again resides in the North after all is said and done.

Am I wrong or is watching basically all he can do? If so, it seems as though he won't impact events and Martin has spent a ton of time on Bran that doesn't do much for the plot or the themes within his book. I mean, contrast that with Brienne whose seemigly aimless wanderings were at least interesting and useful to get a feel for those people and parts of the world who aren't at its center but bear the consequences.

Bran's just been in an isolated group trudging North. His story has put flesh on some of the legends but it's also been a lot of plodding around.

 

[IrishLion]

The way I'm starting to understand it is that Bran will be able to watch anything at any time where there is a Weirwood... but in addition, he's going to become the ultimate master warg (at least over all of the Ravens of the forest north of the Wall).

Does that mean Bran's ultimate contribution rather than just "watching" will be to control a giant flock of ravens? I don't know, and it would be awfully anti-climactic, but perhaps that ability will extend to all the beasts of the wild. I still think in the end that it would be kind of cheesy either way though.... very "Avatar" of GRRM to have Bran control an army of beasts as a form of aid to some unknown faction.

 

[IrishLax]

Am I wrong or is watching basically all he can do? If so, it seems as though he won't impact events and Martin has spent a ton of time on Bran that doesn't do much for the plot or the themes within his book. I mean, contrast that with Brienne whose seemigly aimless wanderings were at least interesting and useful to get a feel for those people and parts of the world who aren't at its center but bear the consequences.

Bran's just been in an isolated group trudging North. His story has put flesh on some of the legends but it's also been a lot of plodding around.

Pretty sure Bran will be the vessel from which we learn all the history... especially about the Others... cuz he can basically time travel view anything now that occurred in front of a Weirwood. And from that knowledge + other shit I think he has a HUGE effect on how crap plays out.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Pretty sure Bran will be the vessel from which we learn all the history... especially about the Others... cuz he can basically time travel view anything now that occurred in front of a Weirwood. And from that knowledge + other shit I think he has a HUGE effect on how crap plays out.

That would make sense but it would still make a lot of the time spent following him a bit of a head scratcher. Hanging out with Hodor hasn't given us a great deal of insight about anything and it appears the Reeds are already subtracted from the story.

EDIT: what I'm trying to say is that Bran's personal character isn't really important if he is a passive sort of plot point going forward; and we could get that later stuff without spending all this intervening time with him.

 

[wizards8507]

FWIW, I don't buy the Jojen paste theory because it seems weird and pointless.

It's not weird and pointless if the point is that sweet, innocent Bran is starting a long descent to being evil as f*ck.

looking ahead...what main storylines do you think show will cover/not cover next season?

There's so much to cover, I'm also very curious to see how much they're going to put into Season 5. Just off the top of my head:

1. Arya in Braavos
2. Stannis / Jon / Mel at the Wall
3. Sam and Aemon's Excellent Adventure
4. Catfight for Tommen
5. Introduction of JonCon and (f)Aegon
6. Theon in Winterfell
7. Siege of Meereen / Fighting Pits
8. Bran's Jedi Training
9. Whatever Brienne is going to do (with Jamie?)

Anything much more with Sansa or Bran and we'll be DEEP into book-spoiler territory.

We'll have to see how much Ironborn we get. They either need to be major or get cut entirely. Shownlies can't keep up with that much periphery. I'm hoping we open up at the Kingsmoot but I'm not super confident that we'll see it at all.

I'm also interested in how they separate Cersei and Jamie. Tyrion's parting words play a big part in that storyline but they were omitted from the show entirely.

 

[wizards8507]

That would make sense but it would still make a lot of the time spent following him a bit of a head scratcher. Hanging out with Hodor hasn't given us a great deal of insight about anything and it appears the Reeds are already subtracted from the story.

EDIT: what I'm trying to say is that Bran's personal character isn't really important if he is a passive sort of plot point going forward; and we could get that later stuff without spending all this intervening time with him.

That's a big "if." It's certainly plausible but I think it's equally likely that Bran becomes the "big bad."

Dude's name is "Bloodraven."

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

People seem pretty sold on Cold Hands = Bloodraven. Why is that?

 

[wizards8507]

People seem pretty sold on Cold Hands = Bloodraven. Why is that?

That's dumb.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

EDIT: what I'm trying to say is that Bran's personal character isn't really important if he is a passive sort of plot point going forward; and we could get that later stuff without spending all this intervening time with him.

I doubt GRRM would be so lazy as to turn one of the primary protagonists into a meaningless 1st person camera for events north of the wall. Bran's interminable journey to reach Bloodraven was of questionable narrative value, though so were Brienne's travels across Westeros, Dany's time in Mereen, ect. Bran's storyline is one of many that has suffered from GRRM's lack of a strong editor.

As far as Bran's significance, he's arguably the most powerful character in the books now. His ability to warg into humans marks him out as an exceptional greenseer; now that he's under Bloodraven's tutelage and hooked into the Wierwood network, I can't think of another individual better situated to influence events than Bran.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm also interested in how they separate Cersei and Jamie. Tyrion's parting words play a big part in that storyline but they were omitted from the show entirely.

I was weirdly comforted by that. Tyrion's parting dialogue with Jamie in the books had "tragic foreshadowing" written all over it. So they're omission from the show gives me hope that they're not destined for some horribly ironic fate.

That's a big "if." It's certainly plausible but I think it's equally likely that Bran becomes the "big bad."

Dude's name is "Bloodraven."

Not buying it. Bloodraven has all the hallmarks of a GRRM anti-hero. We've gotten zero indication that he's actually sinister.

 

[Corry]

Am I wrong or is watching basically all he can do? If so, it seems as though he won't impact events and Martin has spent a ton of time on Bran that doesn't do much for the plot or the themes within his book. I mean, contrast that with Brienne whose seemigly aimless wanderings were at least interesting and useful to get a feel for those people and parts of the world who aren't at its center but bear the consequences.

Bran's just been in an isolated group trudging North. His story has put flesh on some of the legends but it's also been a lot of plodding around.

If you believe this guy you can do more than just look. This is about as tin foil as it gets but, if you're a theory junkie like myself you'll get a kick out of it.

“Quaithe is Daenerys from the future”

 

[wizards8507]

I doubt GRRM would be so lazy as to turn one of the primary protagonists into a meaningless 1st person camera for events north of the wall. Bran's interminable journey to reach Bloodraven was of questionable narrative value, though so were Brienne's travels across Westeros, Dany's time in Mereen, ect. Bran's storyline is one of many that has suffered from GRRM's lack of a strong editor.

I highly disagree with the Brienne chapters being of "questionable narrative value." While they did little for plot advancement, they filled the crucial role of exploring how the War of the Five Kings impacted the "little people," a role originally filled by Arya's journey here there and everywhere before taking off for Braavos. Brienne's chapters also helped populate the world and create an environment that the TV show could accomplish visually. That's why I was okay with the Brienne changes in the show. Marching around the countryside with Podrick is valuable in a novel, not so much on television.

Also, I know a lot of people hated it but Maid of Tarth v. Hound was awesome.

 

[wizards8507]

I was weirdly comforted by that. Tyrion's parting dialogue with Jamie in the books had "tragic foreshadowing" written all over it. So they're omission from the show gives me hope that they're not destined for some horribly ironic fate.

Omitting the dialogue was okay but I'm not okay with the omission of the plot point that Cersei IS, in fact, "fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know."

EDIT: That's all as it relates to events going forward. The problem I had with the omission from LAST NIGHT'S episode is that, without the Tysha reveal, Tyrion doesn't have enough hatred to go upstairs and kill Tywin. He'd be trying to GTFO.

Not buying it. Bloodraven has all the hallmarks of a GRRM anti-hero. We've gotten zero indication that he's actually sinister.

Except that he maybe made Bran eat Jojen.

Maybe.

 

[gkIrish]

It's not weird and pointless if the point is that sweet, innocent Bran is starting a long descent to being evil as f*ck.


There's so much to cover, I'm also very curious to see how much they're going to put into Season 5. Just off the top of my head:

1. Arya in Braavos
2. Stannis / Jon / Mel at the Wall
3. Sam and Aemon's Excellent Adventure
4. Catfight for Tommen
5. Introduction of JonCon and (f)Aegon
6. Theon in Winterfell
7. Siege of Meereen / Fighting Pits
8. Bran's Jedi Training
9. Whatever Brienne is going to do (with Jamie?)

Anything much more with Sansa or Bran and we'll be DEEP into book-spoiler territory.

We'll have to see how much Ironborn we get. They either need to be major or get cut entirely. Shownlies can't keep up with that much periphery. I'm hoping we open up at the Kingsmoot but I'm not super confident that we'll see it at all.

I'm also interested in how they separate Cersei and Jamie. Tyrion's parting words play a big part in that storyline but they were omitted from the show entirely.

You forgot all the shit that happens in Dorne

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I highly disagree with the Brienne chapters being of "questionable narrative value." While they did little for plot advancement, they filled the crucial role of exploring how the War of the Five Kings impacted the "little people," a role originally filled by Arya's journey here there and everywhere before taking off for Braavos.

Perhaps "questionable narrative value" was the wrong phrase to use. The purpose of her storyline in AFfC is pretty obvious. But did we need hundreds of pages of Brienne's pointless wandering to get that across? No.

Also, I know a lot of people hated it but Maid of Tarth v. Hound was awesome.

I liked it. Made the source of Sandor's wounds much closer to Arya's departure from him, and reminded the shownlies that Brienne is a badass.

 

[wizards8507]

You forgot all the shit that happens in Dorne

...aka I didn't forget anything.

 

[gkIrish]

...aka I didn't forget anything.

Lol yeah. I'm hoping the show makes that plot line a bit more exciting. And that we see some steamy Arianne scenes.

 

[wizards8507]

I liked it. Made the source of Sandor's wounds much closer to Arya's departure from him, and reminded the shownlies that Brienne is a badass.

I mean... she probably should have lost.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Omitting the dialogue was okay but I'm not okay with the omission of the plot point that Cersei IS, in fact, "fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know."

Maybe her promiscuity isn't as important as some have projected? It's pretty much been cut from the show entirely. But I understand your point. Also, why include a sex scene between Jamie and Cersei? I thought Benioff and Weiss intended to show them growing apart, but I guess we'll have to wait until S5 for that.

EDIT: That's all as it relates to events going forward. The problem I had with the omission from LAST NIGHT'S episode is that, without the Tysha reveal, Tyrion doesn't have enough hatred to go upstairs and kill Tywin. He'd be trying to GTFO.

Agreed with you there. I don't see the point in changing the dialogue between Tyrion and Tywin. Perhaps too much time has passed since Tyrion's last mention of Tysha (S2)?

Except that he maybe made Bran eat Jojen.

Maybe.

I know Jojen's death seems to support the "Jojen paste" theory, but doesn't Leaf's incineration of his corpse undermine it at the same time?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I mean... she probably should have lost.

Yes. And one does not simply grab a Valyrian steel sword by the blade without losing a bunch of fingers.

 

[wizards8507]

I know Jojen's death seems to support the "Jojen paste" theory, but doesn't Leaf's incineration of his corpse undermine it at the same time?

His death seems to confirm his death in the book but the incineration might just mean that Jojen paste isn't important enough to make the show.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

This fucking show made Bloodraven into an old man leaning up against a tree. Holy shit these guys are clueless. That's not even getting into the dumb skeletons, CotF, and terrible dialogue from Tyrion's plot line.

If this is what they do with the best material from the whole book series, I have no faith in next season being any better than Season 3.

 

[IrishLion]

This fucking show made Bloodraven into an old man leaning up against a tree. Holy shit these guys are clueless. That's not even getting into the dumb skeletons, CotF, and terrible dialogue from Tyrion's plot line.

If this is what they do with the best material from the whole book series, I have no faith in next season being any better than Season 3.

I think the seasons after this one are destined to be "disappointing" regardless... Book three is by far the most dense in terms of big plot points, so the next season or two will be stretching book five. That is, unless they just go full steam ahead with spoilers, which wouldn't surprise me either. I'm excited to see how they expand upon Arya's story, at least... With the emphasis placed on her transformation and the season's ending, I'd imagine they will show a lot of things that happened "off page" in the books concerning her training.

 

[Corry]

I haven't seen this posted in here anywhere but, I didn't look very hard. So I apologize if it's a repost. But, for those want to read a Winds of Winter chapter here you go. The chapter is Titled Mercy and it's about Ayra.

Here you go.

Excerpt from the Winds of Winter | George R.R. Martin

 

[GATTACA!]

I FINALLY FINISHED ADWD!!! WOHOOO!!! Now it's time to read through this whole thread.

 

[GATTACA!]

Robb, Catelyn, and Edmure were on their way to the Twins in episode 7. It's really the only climax that the producers have set up at this point. Red Wedding in episode 9, and Dondarrion reviving Cat as Lady Stoneheart as the hook to end episode 10.

The Blackfish and Talisa are also on their way to the wedding, so we should get some major clarification on The Heir to the North theory as well.

Haha got a kick out of this lol

 

[Corry]

Jaquen H'gar looks to be returning for Season 5 of GoT. More than likely as a replacement to KM. I see why they're doing it but, I don't agree with it.

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/06/23/familiar-face-returning-game-thrones-season-5/

 

[Emcee77]

Jaquen H'gar looks to be returning for Season 5 of GoT. More than likely as a replacement to KM. I see why they're doing it but, I don't agree with it.

A familiar face returning to Game of Thrones for season 5? - WinterIsComing.net - News and rumors about HBO's Game of Thrones

Right, gotta be. The viewing audience won't make the connection to Jaqen otherwise, and HBO will risk losing viewers whose reaction to that storyline is "wtf is happening?" If the show-writers anchor viewers in something they've already seen, and thought was cool, they'll be more likely to stick around.

 

[IrishLion]

So if the show isn't going to touch on Jaquen's "infiltration" of the Citadel at Oldtown, does that mean that whole plot thread in a AFfC was basically pointless? Or will this be a thing where the show does a flashback/explanation (aimed at Arya?) of where he was/what he was doing?