A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[Emcee77]

Man I can't wait for the show finale.

I was watching last night with a bunch of non-book-readers and I kept hinting how something BIG was about to happen that was going to shock them, thinking that the show would get to Stannis last night, and then of course the show lingered on the battle and didn't get there, so I looked like a jerk. Haha.

But seriously, why can't GRRM do what the show producers are doing? Masterful job of pacing so that several storylines will be tied up in the finale. You would think that GRRM would have been able to figure out how to do that, rather than resort to the clumsy, overwrought method of splitting the storylines so that you have two simultaneous volumes in books 4 and 5. I was curious about how the show was going to handle that, and they kind of made it look easy. But I guess hindsight is really 20/20.

 

[IrishLax]

Man I can't wait for the show finale.

I was watching last night with a bunch of non-book-readers and I kept hinting how something BIG was about to happen that was going to shock them, thinking that the show would get to Stannis last night, and then of course the show lingered on the battle and didn't get there, so I looked like a jerk. Haha.

But seriously, why can't GRRM do what the show producers are doing? Masterful job of pacing so that several storylines will be tied up in the finale. You would think that GRRM would have been able to figure out how to do that, rather than resort to the clumsy, overwrought method of splitting the storylines so that you have two simultaneous volumes in books 4 and 5. I was curious about how the show was going to handle that, and they kind of made it look easy. But I guess hindsight is really 20/20.

Yeah, basically the way I look at it GRRM wasn't prepared for his own success. He had really coherent, captivating plot lines through book 3. Everything really kind of wrapped up nicely at the end of Storm of Swords... to the point where he basically had to jumpstart it anew for Feast of Crows, including trying to establish a bunch of new PoV characters. And he just got really loose with his writing, likely because his editor wasn't strong enough with him.

Watching these past two seasons just reinforces why I think Storm of Swords is one of the best books I've ever read in terms of being entertaining/captivating. So many incredibly powerful scenes. Ygritte's death almost brought me to tears.

 

[Emcee77]

Yeah, basically the way I look at it GRRM wasn't prepared for his own success. He had really coherent, captivating plot lines through book 3. Everything really kind of wrapped up nicely at the end of Storm of Swords... to the point where he basically had to jumpstart it anew for Feast of Crows, including trying to establish a bunch of new PoV characters. And he just got really loose with his writing, likely because his editor wasn't strong enough with him.

Watching these past two seasons just reinforces why I think Storm of Swords is one of the best books I've ever read in terms of being entertaining/captivating. So many incredibly powerful scenes. Ygritte's death almost brought me to tears.

Yeah, that seems absolutely right to me.

Hasn't he said that he had originally conceived of the series as a trilogy? Once he got through SoS there was probably just a lot to do that he hadn't thought through yet.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Hasn't he said that he had originally conceived of the series as a trilogy?

Yup. Has happened to many successful fantasy writers.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm usually a stickler for keeping the plot of the show in line with the books but I thought last night's episode was brilliant. The changes all worked with maybe the exception of Ygritte's death, which felt a little heavy handed.

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[HoosierIrish]

So I liked last Sundays episode, but whats going to happen in the 10th. Huge events still need to happen. I thought for sure they would kill Tywinn and Shae in episode 9. So we still have:

1.Tywinn's death and Tyrion finding out the truth about his first wife (She hasn't been brought up much so maybe not).

2a.Then We have Stannis and the Wildlings.

2b. Jon Snow becomes Lord Commander.

3. Catelyn Stark coming back to life.

4. The hound dies and Arya sets sail for Bravos.

5. Daenery's decides to stay and rule in Mereen (not as eventful, but you can't not have Daenery's at all in the last two episodes).

6. Then the episode is titled "The Children". Is bran already going to meet the children???


I know they aren't going in the same timeline as the books and might save some events for the next season. I honestly can't imagine all of those happening in one episode. That would make for an insane episode. I'm thinking maybe they keep Tyrion locked away in a cell at the end of the season, and maybe show the hound die and spend 2 minutes at the end showing the reanimated Catlyn Stark; Like how they did with Sam and the White Walkers marching at the end of season 2 . I was really hoping Tywinn/Shae died this season. Anyone actually think all these events will happen?

 

[IrishLax]

So I liked last Sundays episode, but whats going to happen in the 10th. Huge events still need to happen. I thought for sure they would kill Tywinn and Shae in episode 9. So we still have:

1.Tywinn's death and Tyrion finding out the truth about his first wife (She hasn't been brought up much so maybe not).

2a.Then We have Stannis and the Wildlings.

2b. Jon Snow becomes Lord Commander.

3. Catelyn Stark coming back to life.

4. The hound dies and Arya sets sail for Bravos.

5. Daenery's decides to stay and rule in Mereen (not as eventful, but you can't not have Daenery's at all in the last two episodes).

6. Then the episode is titled "The Children". Is bran already going to meet the children???


I know they aren't going in the same timeline as the books and might save some events for the next season. I honestly can't imagine all of those happening in one episode. That would make for an insane episode. I'm thinking maybe they keep Tyrion locked away in a cell at the end of the season, and maybe show the hound die and spend 2 minutes at the end showing the reanimated Catlyn Stark; Like how they did with Sam and the White Walkers marching at the end of season 2 . I was really hoping Tywinn/Shae died this season. Anyone actually think all these events will happen?

I think all but 2b are going to happen.

 

[IrishLion]

Order of events that I'd like to see, just for full mind-blowing implications:

1. Daenerys doing stuff
2. Jon Snow with Mance, and suddenly Stannis
3. Arya leaving the Hound behind, giving a coin to a shipmaster
4. Tyrion, the Crossbow, and the Toilet that lacked Golden Shit
5. Zombie Starks!!!!!111one

 

[HoosierIrish]

I think all but 2b are going to happen.

That would make a lot of sense. Not enough time to show Sam's part in it and the manipulation of it. I can see Stannis barging in Castle Black (Similar to how Tywinn did after Blackwater) and asking who the Lord Commander is and everyone kind of unanimously chooses Jon. Should be great episode either way and has potential to be the best episode yet IMO.

 

[gkIrish]

So I liked last Sundays episode, but whats going to happen in the 10th. Huge events still need to happen. I thought for sure they would kill Tywinn and Shae in episode 9. So we still have:

1.Tywinn's death and Tyrion finding out the truth about his first wife (She hasn't been brought up much so maybe not). 95%

2a.Then We have Stannis and the Wildlings. 50%

2b. Jon Snow becomes Lord Commander. <1%

3. Catelyn Stark coming back to life. 15%. I'm beginning to think they may not show her at all. The actress is on 24 now and they essentially stopped showing the Brotherhood without Banners. But yeah I can definitely see them ending the episode with her.

4. The hound dies and Arya sets sail for Bravos.75%

5. Daenery's decides to stay and rule in Mereen (not as eventful, but you can't not have Daenery's at all in the last two episodes). Don't care lol

6. Then the episode is titled "The Children". Is bran already going to meet the children??? <1%. We haven't even met Coldhands yet....


I know they aren't going in the same timeline as the books and might save some events for the next season. I honestly can't imagine all of those happening in one episode. That would make for an insane episode. I'm thinking maybe they keep Tyrion locked away in a cell at the end of the season, and maybe show the hound die and spend 2 minutes at the end showing the reanimated Catlyn Stark; Like how they did with Sam and the White Walkers marching at the end of season 2 . I was really hoping Tywinn/Shae died this season. Anyone actually think all these events will happen?

I'm with you in that they can't possibly fit all this into one episode. I added the odds of whether it will happen in your post.

I think the episode ends with Daenarys doing something as every season does. But I think we see Coldhands towards the end shortly after a scene with the Hound "dying" Tywin and Shae probably die about 3/4 of the way through the episode.

 

[HoosierIrish]

I think all but 2b are going to happen.

Order of events that I'd like to see, just for full mind-blowing implications:

1. Daenerys doing stuff
2. Jon Snow with Mance, and suddenly Stannis
3. Arya leaving the Hound behind, giving a coin to a shipmaster
4. Tyrion, the Crossbow, and the Toilet that lacked Golden Shit
5. Zombie Starks!!!!!111one

Damn, that gets me pumped. I'd love to see it play out like that.

 

[HoosierIrish]

I'm with you in that they can't possibly fit all this into one episode. I added the odds of whether it will happen in your post.

I think the episode ends with Daenarys doing something as every season does. But I think we see Coldhands towards the end shortly after a scene with the Hound "dying" Tywin and Shae probably die about 3/4 of the way through the episode.

I was kind of under the impression that they weren't going to show Coldhands since we never met him with Sam. I really hope they do, and they probably will. Hopefully the title is referring to Danny choosing to stay in Mereen for her "Children".

 

[GATTACA!]

Remember guys this is a 66 minute episode.

 

[Emcee77]

Now that you guys mention it, I wonder if they will end the episode and the season with Catelyn Stark coming back to life. It seems like the kind of thing they might end with, a sort of cliffhanger to keep the show-watchers hooked, wondering what she is going to do.

I could see it now: second to last scene, Stannis comes to save Jon while he sits in Mance Rayder's tent. Melisandre does something crazy like ask to burn a baby. Cut to the Bw/oB bringing Catelyn back to life. Season ends with a shot of her looking angry and fearsome.

Not a prediction ... just how I might do it.

 

[IrishLion]

I want to see them go straight from Tyrion killing Shae/Tywin to his escape, and then when you think the episode is over... BAM! Lady Stark is undead, and just offing fools in the wild.

Non-readers will be shocked enough by Tyrion's actions, they'll probably feel safe after that (especially since this is the first time the last episode might be bigger than than the 9th). Then you hit them with the big twist, just like the end of the book does, and they'll be at a loss.

 

[IrishLax]

So going back to last week for a second, watching the episode with non-book readers was kind of hilarious. Because GRRM has such a penchant for killing main characters/good guys they were all completely on edge not knowing who would make it through.

Would Jon live or die? Would Ygritte kill him? Would he kill Ygritte? Would Tormund survive? Allister? Slynt? Sam? Would the Wildlings WIN? They all had absolutely no idea which way things would go... which is kind of crazy awesome and shows just how great the storytelling was by GRRM at this point.

As such, when Ygritte has the crosshairs on Jon people were audibly like "OH SHIT" and "NO DON'T DO IT!!!"... and then she gets arrowed by the little kid. I looked around after the "we should've stayed in that cave" line and everyone was crying. Really powerful television. It kind of sucks to know what's coming.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

4. The hound "dies" and Arya sets sail for Bravos.

FTFY

That episode doesn't bode well for Grenn and Pyp's prospects in the books.

 

[Corry]

FTFY

That episode doesn't bode well for Grenn and Pyp's prospects in the books.

Not necessarily. Wasn't the new Khal killed in Season One? GRRM is giving him a POV I thought.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not necessarily. Wasn't the new Khal killed in Season One? GRRM is giving him a POV I thought.

Hadn't heard that. Thought GRRM had promised no new PoVs. I expect Jhaqo to get burninated before Dany takes over his khalasar. She swore to destroy him in Book 1:

I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.

 

[wizards8507]

FTFY

That episode doesn't bode well for Grenn and Pyp's prospects in the books.

Grenn and Pyp could end up at the various castles that are being remanned. I wouldn't be surprised if the show cuts that plotline completely so I'm fine with their deaths.

I just read that there are only 160-something pages of Winds of Winter written. I was hoping it was taking forever because it was running long but what the hell!?

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[NDWorld247]

Have you guys read the Dunk and Egg novellas? I finished the books a couple weeks ago and need something else to read. I'm debating on buying these or moving on to something else. Are they as good as the books?

 

[IrishLax]

Hadn't heard that. Thought GRRM had promised no new PoVs. I expect Jhaqo to get burninated before Dany takes over his khalasar. She swore to destroy him in Book 1:

He always opens with a prologue of a dude who gets killed at the end. So maybe that's what kind of PoV he gives Jhaqo.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Have you guys read the Dunk and Egg novellas? I finished the books a couple weeks ago and need something else to read. I'm debating on buying these or moving on to something else. Are they as good as the books?

They're great but don't spend the money. They are free online in pdf form and easy to find. They're also fairly short and won't break the print budget

 

[IrishLax]

Grenn and Pyp could end up at the various castles that are being remanned. I wouldn't be surprised if the show cuts that plotline completely so I'm fine with their deaths.

I just read that there are only 160-something pages of Winds of Winter written. I was hoping it was taking forever because it was running long but what the hell!?

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If that's true and he's only 160 pages in that's fucking pathetic.

 

[wizards8507]

Have you guys read the Dunk and Egg novellas? I finished the books a couple weeks ago and need something else to read. I'm debating on buying these or moving on to something else. Are they as good as the books?

They're quite good on their own but I think the real value is the layer of richness they add to the universe.

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[returnofthemack]

Have you guys read the Dunk and Egg novellas? I finished the books a couple weeks ago and need something else to read. I'm debating on buying these or moving on to something else. Are they as good as the books?

I thought they were pretty cool, especially because you learn a lot about the Targaryens. But as somebody else said, don't buy them because they're ridiculously expensive. Just find a place to download the pdf.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

If that's true and he's only 160 pages in that's fucking pathetic.

That can't be right. In this interview from 2012 he says he has 400 manuscript pages.

 

[IrishinTN]

If that's true and he's only 160 pages in that's fucking pathetic.

Good old GRRM, too busy travelling, selling his figures, weapon replicas and gaming to do what made him famous. I have read before he is bored with all this so it sadly does not surprise me.

 

[wizards8507]

If that's true and he's only 160 pages in that's fucking pathetic.

That can't be right. In this interview from 2012 he says he has 400 manuscript pages.

Good old GRRM, too busy travelling, selling his figures, weapon replicas and gaming to do what made him famous. I have read before he is bored with all this so it sadly does not surprise me.

My bad, the article I got that from wasn't as clear as it should have been. I did some more digging and apparently GRRM's editor has only received 168 pages, but he's written an undetermined amount more than that.

http://universe.suvudu.com/q-and-a/anne-groell#.U5ra46MpDFo

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[IrishLion]

Still though.... he's only sent his editor 168 pages at this point!?!?!

(I actually have no idea how the editing process works, so maybe he's actually pretty far along. But I could also see that he has to send his editor ~2,000 pages in the end before it becomes a finished product.)