Game of Thrones - Season Four

[ThePiombino]

Here is an interesting theory from Kotaku. Don't click if you haven't watched last night's episode

The Big Thing You Might've Missed During Last Night's Game of Thrones

And to play off on that theory. Go back and re-watch the part where Olenna was stalking to Sansa, and watch Olenna's hand.

Interesting. So Irishcop may be right-on after all. I still don't get the point of Olenna poisoning Joffrey. What would her family have to gain by that, assuming they lose the queenship. Tyrells seem more interested in power than revenge or morality, but I suppose either is possible.

 

[GUknights75]

my buddy thinks it will be brienne of tarth. she was at the wedding, and he thought it was odd to have her approach the wedding party at the beginning of the scene.

Brienne already knew Margery bc she served Renley, so that gives her a reason to approach the table.

 

[GoIrish41]

Interesting. So Irishcop may be right-on after all. I still don't get the point of Olenna poisoning Joffrey. What would her family have to gain by that, assuming they lose the queenship. Tyrells seem more interested in power than revenge or morality, but I suppose either is possible.

If the wedding of her grandson and Cersi goes forward, her grandson would be the king, right?

 

[IrishLion]

If the wedding of her grandson and Cersi goes forward, her grandson would be the king, right?

I believe whoever marries Tommen would become the queen.

 

[blueNDgold44]

Any chance Ser Dontos, the Tyrell's, AND the Prince collaborated on this?

 

[phork]

Any chance Ser Dontos, the Tyrell's, AND the Prince collaborated on this?

No.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Yes, Robert was the older brother of Stannis and Renly. Renly being the youngest. All of thise is from the show as well btw.

Here is an interesting theory from Kotaku. Don't click if you haven't watched last night's episode

The Big Thing You Might've Missed During Last Night's Game of Thrones

And to play off on that theory. Go back and re-watch the part where Olenna was stalking to Sansa, and watch Olenna's hand.

Well there's your answer FishBulb.

 

[woolybug25]

Interesting. So Irishcop may be right-on after all. I still don't get the point of Olenna poisoning Joffrey. What would her family have to gain by that, assuming they lose the queenship. Tyrells seem more interested in power than revenge or morality, but I suppose either is possible.

My guess is that she doesn't want her grand-daughter married to a monster like Joffrey. That's the only thing I can think of.


and yes, nerds.... I broke down and started watching this. I'm caught up from the beginning to the last episode. Is this where I have to kiss the IE thrones leader's hand before getting my official cape and goblet?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Ollena also has commented a few times on how broke the Monarchy is.

Perhaps she knows their days are numbered, if not by Baratheon then by the Iron Bank of Bravos in some way or another.

 

[gkIrish]

My guess is that she doesn't want her grand-daughter married to a monster like Joffrey. That's the only thing I can think of.


and yes, nerds.... I broke down and started watching this. I'm caught up from the beginning to the last episode. Is this where I have to kiss the IE thrones leader's hand before getting my official cape and goblet?

You aren't a nerd until you've read the books.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Brienne already knew Margery bc she served Renley, so that gives her a reason to approach the table.

not odd in the sense that she has no place there, but moreso because she's a minor character that didn't seem important enough (at this point) to feature in that part of the scene.

 

[woolybug25]

not odd in the sense that she has no place there, but moreso because she's a minor character that didn't seem important enough (at this point) to feature in that part of the scene.

She's not really a minor character. She had the small tiff with Cersei after she approached the table. She was asked if she loves Jaime and didn't respond. She also has been central to Jaime's return to King's Landing.

 

[irishfan]

You aren't a nerd until you've read the books.

I want to read the books but I don't want to read ahead of the show. And from what I've heard about the books, there's no way I'm going to have the self-control to stop myself from reading ahead.

 

[wizards8507]

Ollena also has commented a few times on how broke the Monarchy is.

Perhaps she knows their days are numbered, if not by Baratheon then by the Iron Bank of Bravos in some way or another.

To be clear, the Iron Throne is indebted to the Iron Bank of Braavos, not the Lannisters themselves. If Stannis were to take the throne for himself, the debt would become his.

 

[Corry]

I want to read the books but I don't want to read ahead of the show. And from what I've heard about the books, there's no way I'm going to have the self-control to stop myself from reading ahead.

Plus there is no way to read up to show and ensure you're not getting other info as well. It's not like the show is on book 3 chapter 7. They're jumping around a bit.

 

[wizards8507]

If the wedding of her grandson and Cersi goes forward, her grandson would be the king, right?

No. Cersei was the queen only by marriage to Robert. She can't in turn make someone king by marriage because she's not in the royal bloodline. Since Robert's death, she's been what's known as "Queen Regent," which basically means she was ruling on behalf of Joffrey until he came of age. She'll still be Queen Regent after Joffrey's death, until her son Tommen (Joffrey's little brother) comes of age.

I believe whoever marries Tommen would become the queen.

Yes.

EDIT: Stannis is the "rightful heir" by Westerosi laws of succession (besides Dorne, which allows females to rule) due to the fact that both Joffrey and Tommen are bastards born of incest. Even if Joffrey and Tommen were legitimate, Stannis would be "next in line" as Robert's eldest brother unless Tommen were to produce a male heir.

EDIT 2: Not to mention the fact that Stannis has no male children either so you see how this whole thing can go to shit rather quickly at the pace GRRM kills his characters.

 

[wizards8507]

I want to read the books but I don't want to read ahead of the show. And from what I've heard about the books, there's no way I'm going to have the self-control to stop myself from reading ahead.

Plus there is no way to read up to show and ensure you're not getting other info as well. It's not like the show is on book 3 chapter 7. They're jumping around a bit.

Yeah, it's impossible. Theon's torture, for example, happens completely behind-the-scenes. He disappears for all of books 3 and 4 and we don't meet Reek until book 5.

That said, I definitely recommend reading the books but just don't worry about outpacing the show. They're far richer and the conspiracy theories are even more fantastic.

 

[GoIrish41]

No. Cersei was the queen only by marriage to Robert. She can't in turn make someone king by marriage because she's not in the royal bloodline. Since Robert's death, she's been what's known as "Queen Regent," which basically means she was ruling on behalf of Joffrey until he came of age. She'll still be Queen Regent after Joffrey's death, until her son Tommen (Joffrey's little brother) comes of age.

Yes.

OK, I get this, but as it stands now, Cersei retains power for a few more years (or more specifically, her father retains the real power). So what happens if Tommen finds an untimely death? That seems more likely than not given the plot so far. Who becomes the heir if we think that one move ahead? That is where I'm at right now it trying to determine who has a motive to do what. It wouldn't fall to the daughter, I assume, and even if it did I think that Prince dude has made it clear that that little girl isn't safe right now. I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering. Who wins when there are no more of Robert's children in the way? Whomever that is might well be connected to Joffrey's death.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

She's not really a minor character. She had the small tiff with Cersei after she approached the table. She was asked if she loves Jaime and didn't respond. She also has been central to Jaime's return to King's Landing.

i suppose "minor character" is defined differently between us.

 

[gkIrish]

i suppose "minor character" is defined differently between us.

Brienne is not a minor character by any definition IMO. In the books, for example, she is a POV character. And she is a fairly major character in the TV show as well. Not sure why you think she is "minor."

 

[Emcee77]

OK, I get this, but as it stands now, Cersei retains power for a few more years (or more specifically, her father retains the real power). So what happens if Tommen finds an untimely death? That seems more likely than not given the plot so far. Who becomes the heir if we think that one move ahead? That is where I'm at right now it trying to determine who has a motive to do what. It wouldn't fall to the daughter, I assume, and even if it did I think that Prince dude has made it clear that that little girl isn't safe right now. I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering. Who wins when there are no more of Robert's children in the way? Whomever that is might well be connected to Joffrey's death.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it this way, but I believe technically next in line after Tommen would be ... Stannis. Obviously that would only happen over the Lannisters' dead bodies, literally.

After Stannis (who has no sons), it would be the next closest Baratheon male relative ... a cousin of Robert and Stannis's, maybe? Don't know if such a person has been introduced.

But this is probably all academic ... if Tommen died, civil war would reignite and the throne would go to whoever could take it, most likely.

EDIT: aaand beaten by wizards

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Brienne is not a minor character by any definition IMO. In the books, for example, she is a POV character. And she is a fairly major character in the TV show as well. Not sure why you think she is "minor."

i don't know why calling her a minor character matters so much. it was mostly an off the cuff comment that didn't require much time and effort to type and post. but i'll indulge you anyways...

i mean relative to most of the members of the noble houses that dominate the series. it's just an opinion i formed based on comparisons between characters. i don't consider her to be on the same level as many of the other characters. to simplify the categorization (which is not important to me whatsoever and i don't know why this is such a point of contention) i consider characters as either major or minor. she didn't pass the sniff test for major character in my opinion. that would be someone like tyrion. she's more of a pawn in the lives of the major characters. again, in my opinion and based on my experience watching the tv series. no need to get so defensive.

 

[woolybug25]

i don't know why calling her a minor character matters so much. it was mostly an off the cuff comment that didn't require much time and effort to type and post. but i'll indulge you anyways...

i mean relative to most of the members of the noble houses that dominate the series. it's just an opinion i formed based on comparisons between characters. i don't consider her to be on the same level as many of the other characters. to simplify the categorization (which is not important to me whatsoever and i don't know why this is such a point of contention) i consider characters as either major or minor. she didn't pass the sniff test for major character in my opinion. that would be someone like tyrion. she's more of a pawn in the lives of the major characters. again, in my opinion and based on my experience watching the tv series. no need to get so defensive.

I don't think GK was getting defensive. He was stating a fact. She is a major character in the show and in the books. If it's not a big deal to you, then you don't have to keep trying to explain why you think that you're right (which btw, you're not )

 

[Irish Houstonian]

To be clear, the Iron Throne is indebted to the Iron Bank of Braavos, not the Lannisters themselves. If Stannis were to take the throne for himself, the debt would become his.

Right, but if the current regime can't (or won't) pay it back, won't the Bank fund a competitor? (I thought that was what Tyrion was getting at in that one scene where he goes over the books.) So my point is that if Olena thinks the crown can't pay it back, then she has a reason to make sure Majorie doesn't marry Jeoffrey.

 

[gkIrish]

i don't know why calling her a minor character matters so much. it was mostly an off the cuff comment that didn't require much time and effort to type and post. but i'll indulge you anyways...

i mean relative to most of the members of the noble houses that dominate the series. it's just an opinion i formed based on comparisons between characters. i don't consider her to be on the same level as many of the other characters. to simplify the categorization (which is not important to me whatsoever and i don't know why this is such a point of contention) i consider characters as either major or minor. she didn't pass the sniff test for major character in my opinion. that would be someone like tyrion. she's more of a pawn in the lives of the major characters. again, in my opinion and based on my experience watching the tv series. no need to get so defensive.

Wasn't trying to to start an argument-- I apologize if I came off this way.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

I don't think GK was getting defensive. He was stating a fact. She is a major character in the show and in the books. If it's not a big deal to you, then you don't have to keep trying to explain why you think that you're right (which btw, you're not )

i'm sorry, but it's not a fact. it's ok to accept other people's opinions that don't match your own. i'm ok with you two including her as a major character. but you've both told that it's impossible to call her a minor character. and yet, i still think of her that way compared to other characters. i haven't read all of the books, so her main role so far has been to return jaime on the orders of lady catherine.

 

[wizards8507]

So what happens if Tommen finds an untimely death?

Who wins when there are no more of Robert's children in the way? Whomever that is might well be connected to Joffrey's death.

After Robert's sons comes Robert's brother, but considering he's in open rebellion at the moment, it's unlikely that Tywin would just hand him the kingdom. After brothers, the succession laws get a bit sticky. It could be a Baratheon cousin somewhere down the line. My best guess is that the Lannisters would put Myrcella on the throne. Remember, Tyrion sent Myrcella off to Dorne in an attempt to win their allegiance in the War of the Five Kings, so she's currently Prince Doran's "guest."

Don't forget that the reason Ned Stark was beheaded is because he sent out letters to the lords of the Seven Kingdoms that Tommen, Myrcella, and Joffrey are Jamie Lannister's bastards, so we've already thrown legitimate succession out the window a bit.

 

[Emcee77]

i'm sorry, but it's not a fact. it's ok to accept other people's opinions that don't match your own. i'm ok with you two including her as a major character. but you've both told that it's impossible to call her a minor character. and yet, i still think of her that way compared to other characters. i haven't read all of the books, so her main role so far has been to return jaime on the orders of lady catherine.

There was kind of a lot going on there though, no? Renly, Lady Catelyn, Jame and Brienne fighting and arguing and winning each other's mutual respect, the bear pit ... saying that all she's done is attempt to bring Jamie back to King's Landing is kind of like saying all Danerys has done is wander around in the East. I tend to agree with wooly that calling Brienne a minor character is really not reasonable ... no offense to you personally at all.

 

[wizards8507]

There was kind of a lot going on there though, no? Renly, Lady Catelyn, Jame and Brienne fighting and arguing and winning each other's mutual respect, the bear pit ... saying that all she's done is attempt to bring Jamie back to King's Landing is kind of like saying all Danerys has done is wander around in the East. I tend to agree with wooly that calling Brienne a minor character is really not reasonable ... no offense to you personally at all.

If the shoe fits...

 

[Emcee77]

After Robert's sons comes Robert's brother, but considering he's in open rebellion at the moment, it's unlikely that Tywin would just hand him the kingdom. After brothers, the succession laws get a bit sticky. It could be a Baratheon cousin somewhere down the line. My best guess is that the Lannisters would put Myrcella on the throne. Remember, Tyrion sent Myrcella off to Dorne in an attempt to win their allegiance in the War of the Five Kings, so she's currently Prince Doran's "guest."

Don't forget that the reason Ned Stark was beheaded is because he sent out letters to the lords of the Seven Kingdoms that Tommen, Myrcella, and Joffrey are Jamie Lannister's bastards, so we've already thrown legitimate succession out the window a bit.

Exactly. Technically, from the perspective of those who are pretending that Cersei's sons are also Robert's sons, if Tommen died without an heir, the heir would be (Stannis, who is presently a traitor to the throne, so not him but) some Baratheon cousin. A convenient solution for Tywin, if the Baratheon heir is unmarried, would be to just marry him to Myrcella, assuming he could get her back from Dorne, where she is basically a hostage.

But basically Tywin would do whatever he wants ... make up some way to get a Lannister on the throne. I agree with wizards that legitimate succession is basically out the window.