Johnny Football

[GATTACA!]

I think Phil31's previous post addressed this pretty well...

His post was about "exciting" QB's, it had nothing to do with getting a great one.

 

[ACamp1900]

If the Browns draft a QB, that'll be the fourth first round QB since coming back... in that time they have four TOTAL offensive skill players combined in the first round... one of those was a Tight End.

 

[ACamp1900]

All of this is beside the point anyway... Do you think JFF is the answer to the Browns woes???

Yes/No.

Why waste another pick?

 

[GATTACA!]

If the Browns draft a QB, that'll be the fourth first round QB since coming back... in that time they have four TOTAL offensive skill players combined in the first round... one of those was a Tight End.

Did you do an understudy with Matt Millen lol? Again WRs are useless with no one to get them the ball. Add to the fact that we already have Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron 2 All-Pro offensive weapons. If you have problems with JF I totally get that. But sticking our heads in the sand and refusing to draft 1st round QB's because of the risk will accomplish nothing.

 

[ND NYC]

jumping in late to this thread....

am i the only one curious and also excited to see how manziel does in the nfl? he should "keep us entertained" if nothing else. (que the Maximus gif)

the league needs a shot in the arm in terms of some excitement. sometiimes i get bored to tears watching the product nfl puts out there on sundays...and now on thursdays....and sunday nights, and of course on mondays).

there was a journalist who did a pretty in depth article on how he thinks fantasy football is saving/preserving the nfl tv ratings fo the regular season....his opinion which he used al sorts fo data to back up waqs basically this: if not for the skyrocketing popularity of people watching the nfl not for the games but to watch their fantasy players, the nfl ratings in season would be down SIGNIFICANTLY. it was pretty initeresting and it seemed on the mark to me.

 

[ACamp1900]

Did you do an understudy with Matt Millen lol? Again WRs are useless with no one to get them the ball. Add to the fact that we already have Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron 2 All-Pro offensive weapons. If you have problems with JF I totally get that. But sticking our heads in the sand and refusing to draft 1st round QB's because of the risk will accomplish nothing.

I’m not sticking my head in the sand… unless my math is wrong, 26 Super Bowls have been won with QB’s not drafted in the top five… 20 by teams with QB’s not even drafted in the first round… and I don’t believe these numbers factor in Wilson…

Here are my thoughts, there is always risk with drafting a QB, no matter where you draft the QB, but that level of risk decreases with every round… obviously this goes for any position to some extent but when you consider the sheer amount of first round busts at QB and how much is often at stake I’d rather take my chances in the later rounds (which have more than proven capable of providing a championship QB)… taking a bust on an early draft pick used on a guard sucks, taking a bust at QB in the early round kills teams and gets GMs fired. The risk/reward just doesn't sit well with me.

Just my two cents, I have never bought into this "All in on a QB every year" stuff. Also, if winning is my priority (obviously teams have different priorities) then I don't touch Manziel at any point with any pick... forget one of the top picks in the entire draft.

 

[greyhammer90]

jumping in late to this thread....

am i the only one curious and also excited to see how manziel does in the nfl? he should "keep us entertained" if nothing else. (que the Maximus gif)

the league needs a shot in the arm in terms of some excitement. sometiimes i get bored to tears watching the product nfl puts out there on sundays...and now on thursdays....and sunday nights, and of course on mondays).

there was a journalist who did a pretty in depth article on how he thinks fantasy football is saving/preserving the nfl tv ratings fo the regular season....his opinion which he used al sorts fo data to back up waqs basically this: if not for the skyrocketing popularity of people watching the nfl not for the games but to watch their fantasy players, the nfl ratings in season would be down SIGNIFICANTLY. it was pretty initeresting and it seemed on the mark to me.

As a person who doesn't get into fantasy in the same way that my roommates do, I can safely say that Fantasy does play a huge role in their viewing habits. I can also say that, IMO, the NFL is a much lesser product than CFB on the field.

 

[ACamp1900]

As a person who doesn't get into fantasy in the same way that my roommates do, I can safely say that Fantasy does play a huge role in their viewing habits. I can also say that, IMO, the NFL is a much lesser product than CFB on the field.

Agreed on all counts... just to build on that, when my friends and I were all in college I was easily one of the bigger NFL guys... now, not so much... almost all of my friends that watch sports are fantasy guys, and a few admit they watch just for that... Much bigger CFB guy over the last decade.

 

[GATTACA!]

As a person who doesn't get into fantasy in the same way that my roommates do, I can safely say that Fantasy does play a huge role in their viewing habits. I can also say that, IMO, the NFL is a much lesser product than CFB on the field.

Agreed 1000% I can tune in on saturdays and be emotionally invested in any CFB game. Even the marquee games in the NFL i don't care about. I'm constantly just rooting for a good game, i dont care about any of the teams.

 

[ACamp1900]

I find it hard to root for certain members of the Browns when they went to certain schools... lol

I'm getting mroe and more to the point where I just root for ND players regardless of who they play for.

 

[GATTACA!]

I find it hard to root for certain members of the Browns when they went to certain schools... lol

I'm getting mroe and more to the point where I just root for ND players regardless of who they play for.

I was heartbroken when Eifert went to the Bengals

 

[ACamp1900]

I was heartbroken when Eifert went to the Bengals

My puppy and coffe table both died... at the same exact time.

 

[ulukinatme]

I find it hard to root for certain members of the Browns when they went to certain schools... lol

I'm getting mroe and more to the point where I just root for ND players regardless of who they play for.

This is what I've become the last 10 years. I don't root for any particular NFL team, I'm done with that. I just root for the ND guys.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Agreed 1000% I can tune in on saturdays and be emotionally invested in any CFB game. Even the marquee games in the NFL i don't care about. I'm constantly just rooting for a good game, i dont care about any of the teams.

Exactly the same here. When I was a kid, I loved the NFL. I got emotionally invested in a team because of certain players, most of whom spent virtually all their career on the same team. With FA most of the players move around so much that I can't too excited about any team any more. I've lost almost all interest in the NFL. Give me CFB any day.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I think it's hard to be an NFL fan if you aren't from the East Coast, Midwest, or Texas.

 

[ACamp1900]

Exactly the same here. When I was a kid, I loved the NFL. I got emotionally invested in a team because of certain players, most of whom spent virtually all their career on the same team. With FA most of the players move around so much that I can't too excited about any team any more. I've lost almost all interest in the NFL. Give me CFB any day.

I'll bet it helps when your team isn't hindered by a salary cap......

 

[NCND]

Exactly the same here. When I was a kid, I loved the NFL. I got emotionally invested in a team because of certain players, most of whom spent virtually all their career on the same team. With FA most of the players move around so much that I can't too excited about any team any more. I've lost almost all interest in the NFL. Give me CFB any day.

Agree. I can't even make thru a full NFL quarter anymore. The Super Bowl was the only NFL game I watched.

 

[Monk]

Here are the playoff QB's from this year and the round they where drafted in. The only one beyond the 3rd round is maybe the greatest diamond in the rough in the history of sports. Go ahead and waste picks on receivers that have no one to throw them the ball, and lineman that have no one to block for.

Peyton Manning #1 overall
Drew Brees 2nd (#33 essentially a 1st)
Philip Rivers 1st
Cam Newton #1 overall
Andrew Luck #1 overall
Alex Smith #1 overall
Aaron Rodgers 1st
Andy Dalton 2nd (#35)
Tom Brady 6th
Russel Wilson 3rd
Nick Foles 3rd
Colin Kaepernick 2nd (#36)

OK I understand your point here, but what are the draft picks for the QB's for the teams that didn't make the playoffs. I don't have the time to look it up, but I would venture a guess that says the majority of them are 1st and 2nd round picks as well. I know all to well as a Buffalo fan.

 

[WestCoast]

As a person who doesn't get into fantasy in the same way that my roommates do, I can safely say that Fantasy does play a huge role in their viewing habits.

You, your roommates and fantasy games?

 

[philipm31]

His post was about "exciting" QB's, it had nothing to do with getting a great one.

So QBs with MULTIPLE SB wins are NOT considered great???? The larger issue is that people think that you need a flashy QB to succeed when history shows that to be entirely false...ENTIRELY.

The whole point is that the idea of a FRANCHISE QB being the answers to all your team's prayers is a FALLACY.

Finding a FRANCHISE QB in the FIRST ROUND does NOT happen that often, no matter what you think about last year's playoffs.

Six Beers Deep | The Quarterback Fallacy
To make matters worse only 5 of the last 38 QBs drafted in the first round have won a Super Bowl and 17 no longer start in the NFL. (17/38 no longer START, nearly 50%!!)

The other side of the coin is that out of the 7 quarterbacks who have won the last 10 Super Bowls, all have been first round picks except for Brady and Brees. However Rodgers, Eli Manning and Big Ben all entered situations where they just simply improved on a perennial powerhouse, and Flacco won one with a huge help from his Ray Lewis led defense. This leaves Peyton Manning as the only QB that really came in and changed the fate of his franchise.

I will say that I disagree a bit with that statement that Aaron, Ben and Eli just came in and played on a team that was already a legit NFL title contender, when you consider the fact that it had been decades in between titles for the Packers, Steelers and Giants. But the point the author is making is that those franchises already had been established as teams with strong legacies within NFL history, whether or not they won another NFL title/SB title.

 

[philipm31]

OK I understand your point here, but what are the draft picks for the QB's for the teams that didn't make the playoffs. I don't have the time to look it up, but I would venture a guess that says the majority of them are 1st and 2nd round picks as well. I know all to well as a Buffalo fan.

Eli Manning (#1 pick overall)
Carson Palmer (#1 pick overall)
Matt Ryan (#3 pick overall)
Joe Flacco (#18 overall)
Matthew Stafford (#1 overall)
RG3 (#3 overall)
Aaron Rodgers (#25)
Jay Cutler (#11)
Pittsburgh Steelers (#11)
Ryan Tannehill (#8)


TEN QBs that were first round QBs that did not make the playoffs last year, FIVE of them in the Top 3 picks of the draft overall.

Is Carson Palmer a franchise QB? No. Is Stafford? No. Is Ryan? No. Is RG3? No.

Even Eli is not because without a DOMINANT defense in both of this SB wins, then he has no rings either.

 

[philipm31]

Look at that, the only QB drafted #1 in the last TEN years to win a SB is Eli Manning (2x)....and how many times have the Giants MISSED the playoffs since he took over as the FRANCHISE QB?? FIFTY PERCENT OF THE TIME (5/10 years).

 

[GowerND11]

You can make a case for Matt Ryan. He has a career QBR of 69.7 which is pretty darn good. He was ranked 10th last year in QBR, and didn't he not have his two biggest pass catchers for most of the season? His TD/INT ratio is nearly 4/1. They were within a few plays, including a close non-call Defensive PI, against my 9ers from making the Super Bowl in 2012.

Also Palmer was playing very well and having a good career until his knee was shredded in that playoff game against the Steelers. (Interesting that the NFL found no problem with that hit, but the very next season in the first week when Brady was injured in almost the same manner they made a rule on where you can tackle a QB).

Stafford, statistically, is one of the best QBs in the NFL. Their defense hasn't helped much, and he needs a few more weapons to help Megatron.

RGIII had an electric first season followed by a scared and shaky sophomore campaign. He may very well be a bust, but I'll give him another season before I right him off.

 

[philipm31]

You can make a case for Matt Ryan. He has a career QBR of 69.7 which is pretty darn good. He was ranked 10th last year in QBR, and didn't he not have his two biggest pass catchers for most of the season? His TD/INT ratio is nearly 4/1. They were within a few plays, including a close non-call Defensive PI, against my 9ers from making the Super Bowl in 2012.

Also Palmer was playing very well and having a good career until his knee was shredded in that playoff game against the Steelers. (Interesting that the NFL found no problem with that hit, but the very next season in the first week when Brady was injured in almost the same manner they made a rule on where you can tackle a QB).

Stafford, statistically, is one of the best QBs in the NFL. Their defense hasn't helped much, and he needs a few more weapons to help Megatron.

RGIII had an electric first season followed by a scared and shaky sophomore campaign. He may very well be a bust, but I'll give him another season before I right him off.

The point is that without a TEAM around ANY "franchise QB", then you will NEVER have a successful franchise....EVER.

I think the fact that there were ten first round QBs whose teams DID NOT make the playoffs, with none from the last ten drafts speaks VOLUMES about the oversimplification of how having a franchise QB will solve all your ills, because it never does.

I am not WRITING Robert Griffin III off as a bust, he is just not the kind of player that will reshape the Redskins into title contention...in fact, the Redskins have won the SB with 3 different QBs, something that would fly totally in the face of the simple idea that you NEED a franchise QB.

Drafting the right guys to fit your scheme, etc is what works for teams. Just look at the Niners under Walsh. 1981, the Niners drafted 3 ROOKIE DBs and remade their secondary, and by 1984 they had the best Defense in the NFL. By the time they won their fourth SB in 1989, they had been building a dynasty based on building a TEAM around Joe's talents, as well as the offensive and defensive schemes of Walsh and Seifert. Everyone wants to point to the drafting of Joe Montana as the turning point, but honestly it was their 1981 draft that turned the Niners into contenders, not just drafting the best SB-winning QB ever.

 

[IrishLion]

Johnny Manziel's pro day will be on ESPN at 11am, and will be online at WatchESPN as well... has ESPN covered a specific individual's pro day live before? Or am I just not paying enough attention?

 

[PANDFAN]

Johnny Manziel's pro day will be on ESPN at 11am, and will be online at WatchESPN as well... has ESPN covered a specific individual's pro day live before? Or am I just not paying enough attention?

they have shown clips but i can't recall having media there airing it live

 

[dublinirish]

Gruden's Quarterback Camp: ESPN will debut the series with Johnny Manziel on Thursday evening at 6:00 pm CT. Coverage will include the film session and onfield workouts. Here is a preview of the show.

Johnny Manziel at Gruden's QB Camp - Good Bull Hunting

 

[arrowryan]

Johnny Manziel's pro day will be on ESPN at 11am, and will be online at WatchESPN as well... has ESPN covered a specific individual's pro day live before? Or am I just not paying enough attention?

ESPN covered Blake Bortles' pro day live last week

 

[dublinirish]

ESPN covered Blake Bortles' pro day live last week

that was the UCF pro day though, today is solely for Johnny Football right?

 

[arrowryan]

that was the UCF pro day though, today is solely for Johnny Football right?

Oh, I have no idea. I know that ESPN wouldn't have been at UCF's pro day if Bortles wan't there lol