'15 IL WR Miles Boykin (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Luckylucci]

Lucky or Stl I believe his offer is actionable. Where does he fit in the three type of receivers that we are recruiting. Does ESB or Strickland get bumped?

I don't think the staff would have him coming to campus this much if he didn't have an actionable offer, unless it was to workout (camp) which he isn't going to be doing. Due to his size and that we've told him we are recruiting him as a WR, I would assume that it would be the W position. Same as Strickland and ESB. I have a hard time believing we would stop recruiting both of those if Boykin commits but who knows. IMO, I like those two considerably more. I've always liked the idea of bringing in Boykin as a TE and I still do.

 

[#1rish]

Weird that Wiltfong and others still have CBs locked in for MSU. I don't know when/if he visited Sparty, but this is like his 4th unofficial visit to ND.

Looks like Wiltfong changed his CB to foggy this morning.

 

[ryno 24]

I agree completely, I think he could be the TE type. He has a lot of talent and I want him, but we have limited numbers and we are recruiting over him right now as well. I want to see where he fits in.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think the staff would have him coming to campus this much if he didn't have an actionable offer, unless it was to workout (camp) which he isn't going to be doing. Due to his size and that we've told him we are recruiting him as a WR, I would assume that it would be the W position. Same as Strickland and ESB. I have a hard time believing we would stop recruiting both of those if Boykin commits but who knows. IMO, I like those two considerably more. I've always liked the idea of bringing in Boykin as a TE and I still do.

There's almost no difference in bringing him in as a TE and as a jumbo WR, though, is there?

Unless he has the capacity to be a dominant in-line blocker, he's going to be used the same whether he is "officially" a TE or just a big-bodied possession WR.

I like ESB and Strickland more as well, they have more fluid athleticism in terms of the WR position... but the whole "lets transform these huge WRs into TEs" is a bit overblown IMO. Not every big ("slow") WR and every athletic TE will have the ability to block as well as an Eifert or a Niklas, warranting a strict move to TE.

 

[ryno 24]

He could play as an H Back though which is truly a combo.

 

[Cackalacky]

There's almost no difference in bringing him in as a TE and as a jumbo WR, though, is there?

Unless he has the capacity to be a dominant in-line blocker, he's going to be used the same whether he is "officially" a TE or just a big-bodied possession WR.

I like ESB and Strickland more as well, they have more fluid athleticism in terms of the WR position... but the whole "lets transform these huge WRs into TEs" is a bit overblown IMO. Not every big ("slow") WR and every athletic TE will have the ability to block as well as an Eifert or a Niklas, warranting a strict move to TE.

Its my understanding that BK&Co. want an inline TE this year and also there is no indication that BK&Co. will use a H-back in the offense. Even if they move towards a more Power spread I don't think they will use an H-back.

 

[Wild Bill]

There's almost no difference in bringing him in as a TE and as a jumbo WR, though, is there?

Unless he has the capacity to be a dominant in-line blocker, he's going to be used the same whether he is "officially" a TE or just a big-bodied possession WR.

I like ESB and Strickland more as well, they have more fluid athleticism in terms of the WR position... but the whole "lets transform these huge WRs into TEs" is a bit overblown IMO. Not every big ("slow") WR and every athletic TE will have the ability to block as well as an Eifert or a Niklas, warranting a strict move to TE.

Agree. I'm not saying a 4.7 is fast by any means, but it's not that bad either for a 6'5'' high school receiver. Kelvin Benjamin, who is about the same height, four years removed from high school and is being professionally trained to run a 40, just ran a 4.61 at the combine. I'd take his production at ND.

 

[IrishLion]

Agree. I'm not saying a 4.7 is fast by any means, but it's not that bad either for a 6'5'' high school receiver. Kelvin Benjamin, who is about the same height, four years removed from high school and is being professionally trained to run a 40, just ran a 4.61 at the combine. I'd take his production at ND.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Just because he's big and less athletic than other WRs doesn't mean he needs to be moved to TE. His dominant trait will be his size, and he won't need to be a burner to use it to his advantage as long as he runs good routes. Benjamin is a great example.

I would love to get ESB and Strickland, guys with similar size but better speed... but Boykin could be a dominant WR in his own right with his size. I know the staff wants a big guy, a slot guy, and a tweener, but I think you take Boykin as the WR he is and if ESB or Strickland want in, then you take them and be content with having plenty of huge horses in the stable at the outside WR positions.

 

[Irish#1]

Looks like Wiltfong changed his CB to foggy this morning.

Is Boykin serious about the Irish?

 

[Luckylucci]

There's almost no difference in bringing him in as a TE and as a jumbo WR, though, is there?

Unless he has the capacity to be a dominant in-line blocker, he's going to be used the same whether he is "officially" a TE or just a big-bodied possession WR.

I like ESB and Strickland more as well, they have more fluid athleticism in terms of the WR position... but the whole "lets transform these huge WRs into TEs" is a bit overblown IMO. Not every big ("slow") WR and every athletic TE will have the ability to block as well as an Eifert or a Niklas, warranting a strict move to TE.

From a numbers standpoint I am looking at 1 TE and 3 WR's. I don't want him as 1 of 3 WR's at this point. I think we have a legitimate shot with some better W (outside) WR's and I also want to have space for a slot WR (z), and an X guy also. I also don't see the need to have two TE's. I'm not trying to sound overly negative because I like Boykin as a potential TE in a spread offense.

 

[IrishLion]

From a numbers standpoint I am looking at 1 TE and 3 WR's. I don't want him as 1 of 3 WR's at this point. I think we have a legitimate shot with some better W (outside) WR's and I also want to have space for a slot WR (z), and an X guy also. I also don't see the need to have two TE's. I'm not trying to sound overly negative because I like Boykin as a potential TE in a spread offense.

I don't think you come off as negative... but the last line is what gets me lol. Boykin as a "TE" is no different than Boykin as an outside WR to me. Unless he becomes a truly dominant blocker, he'll be doing the same thing no matter what position he's considered to be.

Let's say he comes in as a TE... he improves blocking a bit, but not enough to be the in-line guy, so he's used mostly flexed out or isolated. But since he's a TE, he's also added weight (to help improve his blocking at the point of attack). And they're going to ask him to do the same things as a pass-catching TE as he would have done as a possession WR anyway since he's not the in-line guy... except now he's heavier for trying to gain weight and might be a step slower.

(also, do you feel comfortable enough with ESB and Strickland to wait on Boykin, and potentially lose a legit outside WR prospect?)

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think you come off as negative... but the last line is what gets me lol. Boykin as a "TE" is no different than Boykin as an outside WR to me. Unless he becomes a truly dominant blocker, he'll be doing the same thing no matter what position he's considered to be.

Let's say he comes in as a TE... he improves blocking a bit, but not enough to be the in-line guy, so he's used mostly flexed out or isolated. But since he's a TE, he's also added weight (to help improve his blocking at the point of attack). And they're going to ask him to do the same things as a pass-catching TE as he would have done as a possession WR anyway since he's not the in-line guy... except now he's heavier for trying to gain weight and might be a step slower.

(also, do you feel comfortable enough with ESB and Strickland to wait on Boykin, and potentially lose a legit outside WR prospect?)

It is completely different. WR and TE speed is vastly different. Stiffness is the shoulders and hips are things that differentiate tall WR's from TE's. If AJ Green or Calvin Johnson were stiff players they'd have been moved to TE a long time ago. Also, it absolutely matters from a numbers perspective. The Y (flexed out TE) and the W (outside) WR clearly have different characteristics and play in different spots on the the field, otherwise there wouldn't be two different positions. He's already a step slower than most outside WR's we are recruiting. This isn't a game changing kid and our WR depth on the team isn't something that needs bodies just to have bodies.

-I'll add that we are expecting summer visits from ESB and Strickland. If after that we don't have a dog in those fights then I'd be very excited to add him to this class.

 

[IrishLion]

It is completely different. WR and TE speed is vastly different. Stiffness is the shoulders and hips are things that differentiate tall WR's from TE's. If AJ Green or Calvin Johnson were stiff players they'd have been moved to TE a long time ago. Also, it absolutely matters from a numbers perspective. The Y (flexed out TE) and the W (outside) WR clearly have different characteristics and play in different spots on the the field, otherwise there wouldn't be two different positions. He's already a step slower than most outside WR's we are recruiting. This isn't a game changing kid and our WR depth on the team isn't something that needs bodies just to have bodies.

So you don't think Boykin has enough flexibility to stick at WR?

And I agree the depth chart is looking fine, but I don't think taking a guy like Boykin is a body for the sake of having bodies. He's a big-time talent and can use that size to dominate smaller DBs.

And guys with the size/speed combo of AJ Green and Calvin Johnson are rare. Boykin is closer to ESB and Strickland than they are to Green/Johnson.

 

[Luckylucci]

So you don't think Boykin has enough flexibility to stick at WR?

And I agree the depth chart is looking fine, but I don't think taking a guy like Boykin is a body for the sake of having bodies. He's a big-time talent and can use that size to dominate smaller DBs.

And guys with the size/speed combo of AJ Green and Calvin Johnson are rare. Boykin is closer to ESB and Strickland than they are to Green/Johnson.

I'm not sure what conversation that you've been having but I've said multiple times that I like those guys considerably more at WR not that he couldn't play WR. I said that I'm all for bringing him in to ND if he's a TE. That doesn't mean he can't play WR it means I just don't think we have the space for a guy of his talents. If we don't have a shot with those guys then Boykin will do. We don't have unlimited spots and once again I don't see Boykin as a difference maker. Also, I don't think Boykin has the flexibility that a Strickland or ESB do nor the general fluidity of the athlete and they are taller and faster. Feet go into that equation as well as body control. Does he have enough to be a WR in general yes but not one that I see being an impact player. Now if he's closer to the line of scrimmage and matched up on a LB or S then I can see him having success.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm not sure what conversation that you've been having but I've said multiple times that I like those guys considerably more at WR not that he couldn't play WR. I said that I'm all for bringing him in to ND if he's a TE. That doesn't mean he can't play WR it means I just don't think we have the space for a guy of his talents. If we don't have a shot with those guys then Boykin will do. We don't have unlimited spots and once again I don't see Boykin as a difference maker. Also, I don't think Boykin has the flexibility that a Strickland or ESB do nor the general fluidity of the athlete and they are taller and faster. Feet go into that equation as well as body control. Does he have enough to be a WR in general yes but not one that I see being an impact player. Now if he's closer to the line of scrimmage and matched up on a LB or S then I can see him having success.

No need to be condescending. I was confused as to why you mentioned AJ Green and Calvin Johnson and how they would have been TEs if not for their flexibility, if that's not one of your reasons for wanting Boykin at TE.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I know next to nothing about Boykin, so this isn't a knock on his quality as a recruit; but I hope the staff is really picky with offensive skill players in this cycle, because we're in a unique position to attract some truly top-flight talent. It's not every year that we have an elite QB and two big-name OL committed this early in the cycle. RBs and WRs are going to take notice of that.

 

[BeauBenken]

I adjusted Miles' weight on the OP. For some reason IM8 had him listed at 230 pounds, but no site lists him above 212.

 

[GBdomer]

Kind of reminds me of Devin Funchess.

 

[Ironman8]

I adjusted Miles' weight on the OP. For some reason IM8 had him listed at 230 pounds, but no site lists him above 212.

I just copy and paste from Rivals - they must have updated it after he attended their most recent camp and weighed in at 212.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Rivals has him ranked at/near the top 100. It's hard for me to imagine us turning away a player with that ranking. I know espn and scout do him a disservice by not ranking him but Rivals is usually pretty good. I have WRs that I really want as well but I don't know if the staff would reject an early pledge from a Top100 player, regardless of position.

 

[#1rish]

Wiltfong CB'd to ND this morning.

 

[Irish#1]

I know next to nothing about Boykin, so this isn't a knock on his quality as a recruit; but I hope the staff is really picky with offensive skill players in this cycle, because we're in a unique position to attract some truly top-flight talent. It's not every year that we have an elite QB and two big-name OL committed this early in the cycle. RBs and WRs are going to take notice of that.

I agree. I think the staff knows that as well and will make sure they are out of it for their top targets before wrapping things up with him.

 

[IrishLax]

Kind of reminds me of Devin Funchess.

Really great comparison. I have no doubt that Boykin is not in the same "category" as other outside WRs. They saw him in person, and his frame probably passed the eye test for your flexed out big body pass catcher. It also makes sense, if they're expecting a commitment here, why they're focusing on evaluating in-line blocking TEs right now to see if any are worth an offer.

 

[Huntr]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="http://t.co/6eEg2pkjrl">http://t.co/6eEg2pkjrl</a> Have to say, by the end of spring Boykin to ND. As close to a done deal as you can get FWIW.</p>— Jeff Johnson (@therealJeffJ97) <a href="https://twitter.com/therealJeffJ97/statuses/449168970470273024">March 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Former Rivals' Illinois guy.

 

[koonja]

Blake's first target in the class. Any guess on who will be his next receiver?

 

[ryno 24]

I agree, we do not necessarily need to take an in line blocking TE because we got two last year and two TE's the year before

 

[PANDFAN]

just remember the chatter is always at the beginning of the recruiting season ....let's hold off and wait for the big commitments and then at the end of the recruiting season...why did we slow play or not offer until now

we tend to have huuuuuuuuuuge optimism and then doom and gloom....I am always happy for a good commit and he fits that mold! !

 

[Cackalacky]

just remember the chatter is always at the beginning of the recruiting season ....let's hold off and wait for the big commitments and then at the end of the recruiting season...why did we slow play or not offer until now

we tend to have huuuuuuuuuuge optimism and then doom and gloom....I am always happy for a good commit and he fits that mold! !

Yep.

 

[Luckylucci]

just remember the chatter is always at the beginning of the recruiting season ....let's hold off and wait for the big commitments and then at the end of the recruiting season...why did we slow play or not offer until now

we tend to have huuuuuuuuuuge optimism and then doom and gloom....I am always happy for a good commit and he fits that mold! !

I would usually agree but our WR group is young and insanely talented. We'll have a lot of these guys for 2-3 years while Boykin is on campus. I don't see him pushing anybody we have for playing time right now. WR recruiting this year isn't like DT or ILB recruiting last year. We can absolutely whiff and I think we'll be fine. When you have that luxury, swing for the fences because you may not again. Plus we should know where we stand with ESB and Strickland by the end of summer, thats just around the corner.

 

[PANDFAN]

I would usually agree but our WR group is young and insanely talented. We'll have a lot of these guys for 2-3 years while Boykin is on campus. I don't see him pushing anybody we have for playing time right now. WR recruiting this year isn't like DT or ILB recruiting last year. We can absolutely whiff and I think we'll be fine. When you have that luxury, swing for the fences because you may not again. Plus we should know where we stand with ESB and Strickland by the end of summer, thats just around the corner.

agree on our WR being deep, but i also don't see him seeing the field as a 1st year player and by the time he actually plays, he will be lined up as a flex te who appears to be more athletic than any TE on the team...i have seen others say that flex te and wr are the same but they are not.

inline- luatua, smith, koyack
flex-weishar, mike h