Northwestern football players win right to unionize

gkIrish

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It's far from over, but I'm delighted with the decision. It's about time somebody recognized that major-college football players deserve the right to stick up for themselves.

Northwestern Wildcats football players win bid to unionize - ESPN

This is the precursor to players getting paid, which I'm firmly against.

Will Northwestern University football unionize? - CNN.com

Northwestern University's president emeritus said that if the players on its football team are successful at forming a union, he could see the prestigious private institution giving up Division I football.
 
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Cackalacky

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I will be against them getting paid when the NCAA stops telling them how much cream cheese they can have on the bagel.
 

BeauBenken

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I'm not for paying college athletes, but I think we can all agree that there are a lot of schools that are giving players a raw deal.

Just watched a video earlier about the UNC scandal. Players aren't even picking their major. They are simply funneled into it and given passing grades.
 

TDHeysus

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This is the precursor to players getting paid, which I'm firmly against.

I completely concur, and I have not heard one argument against this stance that makes me think of wavering on my position.


The only thing that makes sense to me is, if you are going to paid, then you must pay your own way in college. Getting a salary and a scholarship doesn't jive. If you get paid and cant afford college because you didnt get paid enough, then you have a choice - get paid with no school, or take the scholarship and go to school.
 

#1rish

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Ugh, when did a free education start to mean nothing to these kids?
 

ACamp1900

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Giving them a free ride for their athletic talents would be fine if half of these schools actually delivered on their end and gave them a real education... I am definitely NOT in the camp that says the players should get a degree they at times don’t earn, while on a free ride AND get paid on top of that for it…

The biggest exploitation occurring here is many of these athletes are not given the education that they are truly sold on in the beginning… all while they live up to their end by playing ball.
 

gkIrish

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If players were going to use unionization to improve their lives in some non-monetary capacity I can't really argue against it too much. But it's not going to stop there.
 
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Cackalacky

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My biggest thing is that they cannot have amateur status that virtually all other athletes enjoy. They are beholden to play at least three years out of high school. They have no ability to have or develop their own brand and profit from it.

Additionally, the NFL also gets a free developmental league, well free to them, the taxpayers and alumni fund it.
 
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Emcee77

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I will be against them getting paid when the NCAA stops telling them how much cream cheese they can have on the bagel.

Lol. Nicely put. I can envision a fair system in which they don't get paid. The one we got ain't it.
 

gkIrish

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My biggest thing is that they cannot have amateur status that virtually all other athletes enjoy. They are beholden to play at least three years out of high school. They have no ability to have or develop their own brand and profit from it.

No one forces anyone to go to college to play football before going to the NFL. The age restriction is an NFL rule. Players have alternatives.
 

Redbar

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Very unfortunate IMO, if these guys succeed in ultimately getting paid we can say goodbye to Title 9, and all non revenue sports. Will change the college experience for everyone. This is a case of greedy adults reaping what they have sown. I am sure ESPN is psyched, sad day for most though.
 
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Cackalacky

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No one forces anyone to go to college to play football before going to the NFL. The age restriction is an NFL rule. Players have alternatives.

What are the alternatives? How are they going to develop? The system pretty much forces them to attend a university to play football for three years. There are literally no success stories of football players not going to college for three years and making it to the NFL. The NFL rule is exactly the reason its a sham. They dictate who enters the league. What are viable alternatives? Football is virtually the only sport that does this.

Soccer, Rugby, baseball, golf, skiing, snowboarding, skateboarding, racing... all allow amateur status after or even before high school graduation. There are multiple leagues, circuits avenues for these kids to pursue and form their own brand, but not football, you have to go to a college to play.
 
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gkIrish

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What are the alternatives? How are they going to develop? The system pretty much forces them to attend a university to play football for three years. There are literally no success stories of football players not going to college for three years and making it to the NFL. The NFL rule is exactly the reason its a sham. They dictate who enters the league. What are viable alternatives? Football is virtually the only sport that does this.

They can play in another country. They can form an XFL or whatever and get paid whatever the market will give them. Other options don't have to be as good as the best option to be viable. They get upwards of $250,000 to play football while also getting the opportunity to get a college degree. Sure some players are "worth" millions. But others are worth $0. There's no fair way to pay players.

And say goodbye to non-football or basketball sports. Who cares about those kids....
 
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Cackalacky

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They can play in another country. They can form an XFL or whatever and get paid whatever the market will give them. Other options don't have to be as good as the best option to be viable. They get upwards of $250,000 to play football while also getting the opportunity to get a college degree. Sure some players are "worth" millions. But others are worth $0. There's no fair way to pay players.

And say goodbye to non-football or basketball sports. Who cares about those kids....

I don't know how to respond to this....but I will try. I am not saying it has to be as good but it obviously needs to be able to get the player to the NFL. Can you tell me a path to the NFL that does not involve going to a university. Not a hypothetical but a real one that exists today that a high school football player could take to develop over 3 years? Can you provide examples of high school persons leaving high school, not going to college and then playing in the NFL?

I disagree that there is no fair way to pay athletes. Partial scholarships are already viable. These can be supplemented stipends. End the 3-year rule and allow kids to form their brand. All this really is, is the NFL having a free developmental league.
 

wizards8507

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They can play in another country. They can form an XFL or whatever...
Or become doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants, managers, etc. Nobody owes anybody a "living" as a football player.

There's no fair way to pay players.
Sure there is. Let them get paid elsewhere. When I was a student, I worked at a restaurant and made $8.50 per hour because that's what I was worth. If another guy gets offered a Subway commercial for $200,000, he should be allowed to take it. Hell, that one girl at Duke does porn for a living. Paying players is a big pile of crap but it's a bigger pile of crap that they can't go earn money outside of the NCAA framework.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Totally ridiculous. Scholarships are not jobs.

The correct result is the Maurice Clarett antitrust suit against the NFL. If these kids want to be professionals, then they should sue the 32 biggest football franchises for conspiring to not hire them.
 
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Cackalacky

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Totally ridiculous. Scholarships are not jobs.

The correct result is the Maurice Clarett antitrust suit against the NFL. If these kids want to be professionals, then they should sue the 32 biggest football franchises for conspiring to not hire them.

If they are allowed to unionize, I believe this will be the tach. A massive (probably class-action) suit against the NFL.

I would prefer a development league for U-21s to play and develop and earn contracts. The rest can go to university, play their sports on scholarships and get an education.
 

wizards8507

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I don't know how to respond to this....but I will try. I am not saying it has to be as good but it obviously needs to be able to get the player to the NFL. Can you tell me a path to the NFL that does not involve going to a university.

Why is it Notre Dame or Alabama or anyone else's responsibility to make sure these guys have a "path to the NFL"? If you want to go to the NFL, you follow the existing path.

When I wanted to become a CPA, I needed to have 150 college credits and pass four exams in an 18-month window. Using your logic, I should have formed a union and demanded a CPA salary during my time in school and studying for the exam because that was the only path to earn my CPA. Can you tell me a path to the CPA that does not involve getting 150 credits and passing the exam?

I didn't bitch and cry about the rules or unionize to say that I should be allowed to be a CPA just because I really wanted to, nor did I demand the benefits associated with being a CPA before I had earned them. When you want to get to a certain destination, you take the steps necessary to get there. Don't like those steps? Pick a different destination.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Sure there is. Let them get paid elsewhere. When I was a student, I worked at a restaurant and made $8.50 per hour because that's what I was worth. If another guy gets offered a Subway commercial for $200,000, he should be allowed to take it. Hell, that one girl at Duke does porn for a living. Paying players is a big pile of crap but it's a bigger pile of crap that they can't go earn money outside of the NCAA framework.

I think this is the best compromise available. The endorsement income that superstars like Andrew Luck can't realize because of current NCAA rules is usually Exhibit 1A in arguments for paying players. But those are rare cases, and blowing up the whole system on their behalf would be full potato.

So let those guys earn whatever they can on the side. The Olympics has muddled along just fine since its governing body abolished a similar rule. But trying to give these guys a competitive salary on top of their current scholarships would be a disaster.
 

Emcee77

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They can play in another country. They can form an XFL or whatever and get paid whatever the market will give them. Other options don't have to be as good as the best option to be viable. They get upwards of $250,000 to play football while also getting the opportunity to get a college degree. Sure some players are "worth" millions. But others are worth $0. There's no fair way to pay players.

And say goodbye to non-football or basketball sports. Who cares about those kids....

There's no fair way to pay players? Why not just give them all a small "laundry stipend", as they say?

I get that the scholarship benefits athletes get are HUGE, but I just don't understand how it justifies needlessly keeping them in poverty during their college years. I worked two jobs when I was in school for spending money. Football players can't do that. Their lives are football and school. So when their favorite uncle dies and they have a funeral to go to, they have to scramble to buy a suit and make travel arrangements with money they don't have.

So what, many will say. That's true of many students all over the country, for various reasons other than their commitment to D-I football. Maybe so. D-I players can take out loans like other students, I suppose, sure.

But I cannot get over the fundamental illogic of giving kids a scholarship to perform an activity that is TREMENDOUSLY lucrative to the schools, and then telling the students that they can receive NONE of that value in liquid form, so they had better take out loans if they want any spending money, even though the reality is that more than a third of them will not graduate and will have no more earning power after leaving the program than they did coming in and no way to pay those loans back, and the schools often do very little to ensure that they do graduate with useful, marketable skills.

No one's forcing them to do it, it will be argued. If they think they are better off just taking out loans and going to school as a regular student, or looking for work right out of high school, they are more than welcome to.

But is that what schools want? For kids to realize how unattractive playing D-I football is? No, they want the best players to come to their school so they can field a competitive team and make a lot of money. They recruit the best athletes they can find and gloss over the fact that, in order to succeed, they will have to bust their asses all day, pushing themselves to the limits of physical exhaustion to become faster, bigger, stronger, more skilled, then find a way to study all night, then go to bed, then get up and do it again.

There's just no reason we need to make it so hard for them. It doesn't make sense, when schools could easily carve out a small fraction of the money they get from their conference TV deal and ticket sales and everywhere else for a "laundry stipend" so that the kids have a few bucks to buy a suit and a plane ticket for a funeral.
 

Irish Houstonian

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I've always dreamed of starting a new 'USFL' that plays in the spring and which can take anyone 18+. Los Angeles, Portland, Las Vegas, Boise, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Austin, Birmingham, Orlando, Charleston, and Columbus could all have franchises.
 
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