NFL prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

[NDBoiler]

My question on this issue is how does the physical locker room situation play out? Would he use a seperate shower?

I was just wondering, because if for example a heterosexual man was on an all heterosexual women's team, I would think that might present an issue.

 

[Irishman77]

I'm betting that whatever money it may cost in terms of where in the draft he goes, he will more than make up for, in endorsement money.

How sad...Maranatha !

 

[tko]

I'm hetero, speak up people.

 

[kmoose]

How sad...Maranatha !

Well, it's not all that sad, financially, for Michael Sam!

 

[greyhammer90]

Being form Missouri this was my most sent text message yesterday.

"I would rather have a fake girlfriend than a boyfriend"

"Gays are so gay amiright?"

 

[NCND]

My question on this issue is how does the physical locker room situation play out? Would he use a seperate shower?

I was just wondering, because if for example a heterosexual man was on an all heterosexual women's team, I would think that might present an issue.

Ding, Ding, Ding.

 

[gkIrish]

My question on this issue is how does the physical locker room situation play out? Would he use a seperate shower?

I was just wondering, because if for example a heterosexual man was on an all heterosexual women's team, I would think that might present an issue.

I don't know why I know a lot about this topic but there are three main reasons we have separate bathrooms/locker rooms:

1. Women's hygiene creeps men out and vice versa.
2. Architecture--people used to think it was more efficient to have separate bathrooms to make better use of stalls vs. urinals and counter space.
3. Decreasing the chance of pedophilia and sexual harassment towards women.

Having a homosexual in a men's locker room has no bearing on those three issues.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Jerome is a Christian. There are many many Christians in the nfl. They won't bully him , they will just not accept what is clearly wrong.

There are many denominations within Christianity that believe that being gay is not clearly wrong.

 

[wizards8507]

Jerome is a Christian. There are many many Christians in the nfl. They won't bully him , they will just not accept what is clearly wrong.

Check your theology. See below.

There are many denominations within Christianity that believe that being gay is not clearly wrong.

MOST Christians (including Catholics FWIW) agree that "being gay" is morally neutral. The argument pretty much begins and ends with "homosexual acts," the same as heterosexual promiscuity, masturbation, pornography, etc.

That said, I'm shocked at how many people GAF about this "story." This is neither a tragedy nor a triumph. Mr. Sam's homosexuality has no more bearing on my life as a football fan than Peyton Manning's heterosexuality or what kind of car Vince Wilfork drives.

 

[NDBoiler]

I don't know why I know a lot about this topic but there are three main reasons we have separate bathrooms/locker rooms:

1. Women's hygiene creeps men out and vice versa.
2. Architecture--people used to think it was more efficient to have separate bathrooms to make better use of stalls vs. urinals and counter space.
3. Decreasing the chance of pedophilia and sexual harassment towards women.

Having a homosexual in a men's locker room has no bearing on those three issues.

How do you figure it might not be a sexual harrassment-type situation potentially (and I mean either way, by a homosexual or heterosexual person)? Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with someone in Sam's situation having seperate facilties, I am just not following what you mean by it having no bearing.

 

[BeauBenken]

I see. Well that's fine.

But using words like "Sometimes you have to force new ways on stubborn people," and "there is a point where we can not be okay with this any longer and something must be done despite what those who are in charge say" comes across differently. I mistook that for you being more militant, if you will, in the approach to the issue.

It's all good.

Yea, I'm not trying to force gay people down the throats of NFL locker rooms, but if he is a deserving player this sort of thing should NOT matter. I really hope it doesn't need to be like admitting the first black student ever at Ole Miss.

 

[gkIrish]

How do you figure it might not be a sexual harrassment-type situation potentially (and I mean either way, by a homosexual or heterosexual person)? Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with someone in Sam's situation having seperate facilties, I am just not following what you mean by it having no bearing.

Heterosexual men can be sexually harassed by other heterosexual men. You don't have to be attracted to someone to harass them. The issue is that society believes women and children should uniquely be protected against sexual harassment. Men are presumed to be able to take care of themselves. Right or wrong, it's how it is.

 

[NDBoiler]

Heterosexual men can be sexually harassed by other heterosexual men. You don't have to be attracted to someone to harass them. The issue is that society believes women and children should uniquely be protected against sexual harassment. Men are presumed to be able to take care of themselves. Right or wrong, it's how it is.

Ok, thanks for clarifying, I understand what you meant now.

 

[Irishman77]

America is speeding up towards a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Satan has deceived us in many ways. Parents are biblically illiterate and their children see Jesus as a stranger rather than a savior.

God was very clear on homosexuality. Seeing courts rule in favor of transgender pupils and our president stating we are no longer a Christian nation is shocking!

 

[Irishman77]

There are many denominations within Christianity that believe that being gay is not clearly wrong.

You are right my friend. Denominations that don't take Gods word literally have clearly confused The Word.

 

[notredomer23]

America is speeding up towards a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Satan has deceived us in many ways. Parents are biblically illiterate and their children see Jesus as a stranger rather than a savior.

God was very clear on homosexuality. Seeing courts rule in favor of transgender pupils and our president stating we are no longer a Christian nation is shocking!

This is ridiculous and exactly the reason why more and more people have problems with Christianity and organized religion.

 

[gkIrish]

America is speeding up towards a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Satan has deceived us in many ways. Parents are biblically illiterate and their children see Jesus as a stranger rather than a savior.

God was very clear on homosexuality. Seeing courts rule in favor of transgender pupils and our president stating we are no longer a Christian nation is shocking!

We were never a Christian nation. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...."

 

[Irishman77]

This is ridiculous and exactly the reason why more and more people have problems with Christianity and organized religion.

Which part and why? Thanks.

 

[greyhammer90]

America is speeding up towards a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Satan has deceived us in many ways. Parents are biblically illiterate and their children see Jesus as a stranger rather than a savior.

God was very clear on homosexuality. Seeing courts rule in favor of transgender pupils and our president stating we are no longer a Christian nation is shocking!

You are right my friend. Denominations that don't take Gods word literally have clearly confused The Word.

I don't mean this in a bad way because you're entitled to your beliefs and dogmas, and I respect that you are only following your own spiritual path.

But buckle up dude, it's going to be a long century for you.

 

[Irishman77]

I don't mean this in a bad way because you're entitled to your beliefs and dogmas, and I respect that you are only following your own spiritual path.

But buckle up dude, it's going to be a long century for you.

No doubt!

 

[T Town Tommy]

America is speeding up towards a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

Satan has deceived us in many ways. Parents are biblically illiterate and their children see Jesus as a stranger rather than a savior.

God was very clear on homosexuality. Seeing courts rule in favor of transgender pupils and our president stating we are no longer a Christian nation is shocking!

I agree with your points. But I will also say the Church as we know it has done a poor job of communicating the Christian stance on homosexuality. The Bible is very clear on sexual immorality. But it is also clear that we should love the sinner, hate the sin. All too often, the Church has been guilty of condemning the sinner instead of loving them. I will never change my position on sexual immorality and what the Bible says about it. And I will not allow a liberal media to cram it down my throats as being ok to live that lifestyle. That's one large reason why I have not watched the Olympics. It is turning into a moratotrium for homosexuality and gay rights. But if I were to meet Mr. Sam, I would tell him I love him as a child of God, but can not agree with his chosen sexual orientation. Again, my hope is he becomes All Pro, has a hall of fame career, and is successful beyond measure. But not because he is gay... but because he is a great football player.

 

[Irishman77]

I agree with your points. But I will also say the Church as we know it has done a poor job of communicating the Christian stance on homosexuality. The Bible is very clear on sexual immorality. But it is also clear that we should love the sinner, hate the sin. All too often, the Church has been guilty of condemning the sinner instead of loving them. I will never change my position on sexual immorality and what the Bible says about it. And I will not allow a liberal media to cram it down my throats as being ok to live that lifestyle. That's one large reason why I have not watched the Olympics. It is turning into a moratotrium for homosexuality and gay rights. But if I were to meet Mr. Sam, I would tell him I love him as a child of God, but can not agree with his chosen sexual orientation. Again, my hope is he becomes All Pro, has a hall of fame career, and is successful beyond measure. But not because he is gay... but because he is a great football player.

Great post!

 

[wizards8507]

I agree with your points. But I will also say the Church as we know it has done a poor job of communicating the Christian stance on homosexuality. The Bible is very clear on sexual immorality. But it is also clear that we should love the sinner, hate the sin. All too often, the Church has been guilty of condemning the sinner instead of loving them. I will never change my position on sexual immorality and what the Bible says about it. And I will not allow a liberal media to cram it down my throats as being ok to live that lifestyle. That's one large reason why I have not watched the Olympics. It is turning into a moratotrium for homosexuality and gay rights. But if I were to meet Mr. Sam, I would tell him I love him as a child of God, but can not agree with his chosen sexual orientation. Again, my hope is he becomes All Pro, has a hall of fame career, and is successful beyond measure. But not because he is gay... but because he is a great football player.

I agree with the spirit of your post but you're mistaken if the bolded is intended to represent the stance of the Church. The Catholic Church has acknowledged that homosexuality is not, in fact, a choice and therefore is not a sin in and of itself. The choice comes from whether to engage in homosexual acts. Similarly, it is not a sin for a heterosexual man to be sexually attracted to females other than his wife until he chooses to lust after her or engage in extramarital relations. Preference and desire do not become sinful until the sinner has exercised his or her free will.

 

[Irishman77]

I agree with the spirit of your post but you're mistaken if the bolded is intended to represent the stance of the Church. The Catholic Church has acknowledged that homosexuality is not, in fact, a choice and therefore is not a sin in and of itself. The choice comes from whether to engage in homosexual acts. Similarly, it is not a sin for a heterosexual man to be sexually attracted to females other than his wife until he chooses to lust after her or engage in extramarital relations. Preference and desire do not become sinful until the sinner has exercised his or her free will.

I disagree read Mathew 5

 

[gkIrish]

I know I've contributed to the diversion but can we try and keep this thread limited to the impact of the announcement to the NFL and things specifically related to that. There are numerous other threads where a debate about the morality of homosexuality are more appropriate and covered extensively.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I agree with the spirit of your post but you're mistaken if the bolded is intended to represent the stance of the Church. The Catholic Church has acknowledged that homosexuality is not, in fact, a choice and therefore is not a sin in and of itself. The choice comes from whether to engage in homosexual acts. Similarly, it is not a sin for a heterosexual man to be sexually attracted to females other than his wife until he chooses to lust after her or engage in extramarital relations. Preference and desire do not become sinful until the sinner has exercised his or her free will.

But I think you confuse lust with temptation. I do believe lust is a sin. If I am lusting after my neighbor's wife, that is sinful in my eyes. Temptation to do something is not a sin until one acts on it. If I am tempted to shoplift but don't carry through with it, that is not a sin. Two really different principles to me.

 

[wizards8507]

I disagree read Mathew 5

"Literal interpretation of the Bible" isn't always the same as "Catholic doctrine." TTown used the word "Church" with a big "C", so I was answering in that context.

But I think you confuse lust with temptation. I do believe lust is a sin. If I am lusting after my neighbor's wife, that is sinful in my eyes. Temptation to do something is not a sin until one acts on it. If I am tempted to shoplift but don't carry through with it, that is not a sin. Two really different principles to me.

I think that's what I was trying to say. You can be gay without lusting after gay men (I think).

This guy is brilliant. It's deep theology but it talks about the Biblical philosophy behind marriage as an analogy of the Creation act. The video quality isn't great but it's a very valuable listen.

Damon Owens + Adult Talk Part 1 - YouTube

 

[T Town Tommy]

I agree with the spirit of your post but you're mistaken if the bolded is intended to represent the stance of the Church. The Catholic Church has acknowledged that homosexuality is not, in fact, a choice and therefore is not a sin in and of itself. The choice comes from whether to engage in homosexual acts. Similarly, it is not a sin for a heterosexual man to be sexually attracted to females other than his wife until he chooses to lust after her or engage in extramarital relations. Preference and desire do not become sinful until the sinner has exercised his or her free will.

And for the record, I disagree with the Catholic stance on homosexuality if indeed that is their stance.

 

[T Town Tommy]

"Literal interpretation of the Bible" isn't always the same as "Catholic doctrine." TTown used the word "Church" with a big "C", so I was answering in that context.


I think that's what I was trying to say. You can be gay without lusting after gay men (I think).

This guy is brilliant. It's deep theology but it talks about the Biblical philosophy behind marriage as an analogy of the Creation act. The video quality isn't great but it's a very valuable listen.

Damon Owens + Adult Talk Part 1 - YouTube

Understand now. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't have a problem with someone in Sam's situation having seperate facilties

This quote is another factor in what is a complicated issue. Some may be offended if he is offered/asked to use separate facilities. Some may be offended if he is NOT given this choice. Some may be offended by his presence, considering ideas of human sexuality and attraction. It's a cluster, but one that needed to be addressed sooner or later. This is going to be an interesting time for the league.