Help with a Notre Dame hater

[Bubbles]

He caved over the articles and admitted he probably needs to do more research on Notre Dame...


this is me spiking the football... reps to all that dropped articles.

 

[Bubbles]

We got an extra .1 for AP classes, so the best you could do was around 4.1 or so if memory serves......5 seems a bit out of control.

 

[wizards8507]

We got an extra .1 for AP classes, so the best you could do was around 4.1 or so if memory serves......5 seems a bit out of control.

We got .5 for honors-level and 4.33 for an A+, so 4.83 possible. But some places are just out of 5 without any weighting.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[Irish#1]

Just say to him, "I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person".

 

[Bishop2b5]

There was a really good discussion the other day about how Notre Dame will consider students who fall below the GPA or SAT 'requirements' of purely academic students for a number of reasons.

Musicians, artists, athletes, differing backgrounds, etc., all add to a more diverse and interesting school.

I believe almost all schools do this, and for good reasons as you mentioned. There are people who can bring a lot to a school beyond just grades and SAT scores, and most schools realize that and make exceptions for them, provided they can likely handle at least the minimum academic workload. It makes allowances for the outstanding artist, writer, athlete, musician, math prodigy, etc. that can add a lot to a school, but doesn't quite meet all the academic requirements for admission.

 

[greyhammer90]

ITT: ACamp getting trolled very very successfully.

 

[ACamp1900]

Grey always brings da love

 

[greyhammer90]

Grey always brings da love

I'm just saying, he's probably doing solely because he knows it pisses you off, which is why he's simply making his own claims with no evidence or statistics to back it up. Because he knows it'll piss you off enough to go look for evidence and statistics, which he'll dismiss with his nonsense.

Other side of the coin he actually believes it, and if that's the case, who cares what someone that stubborn and stupid has to say?

 

[ACamp1900]

Eh, he backed off... The Golson thing sent him off ( dont ask me why... he HATED that) and it's been slowly growing... He's a 'work buddy' but we got into it today pretty good... I felt if I actually showed him,he'd change his tune, and he did to an extent. Anyway,... It did really upset me at the time.

 

[irish o'phile]

You should should make fun of his race, religion, or children's aesthetics .

 

[kmoose]

Reps... This is a good start... if anything can find something that addresses admissions also I'd realy be greatful.

Just do the morally superior thing:

Every time he says something bad about ND, take a dump on his desk. If your bowels cannot keep pace with his hate, then use what you can find at the neighborhood dog park.

 

[wizards8507]

I'll try one more time since I just typed this up in a PM and it feels a shame to waste it:

Notre Dame isn't that much different than other schools when it comes to admissions, but they really set themselves apart once the players are actually enrolled as students. They might pick easy majors and easy classes but at least they're "real" majors, "real" classes, and "real" grades from the professors.

I know I had a friend who was a varsity fencer at ND and his ACT was a 23, so to me that's as much proof as anything that athletes are admitted under a different standard, and not just a point or two here and there.

I think another key difference between Notre Dame and other schools is that admissions doesn't have a fixed "minimum" academic profile for ordinary students. Some places throw your application in the trash if you have less than, say, a 16 ACT. ND can say they don't give "waivers" to minimum test scores because they don't have an official minimum test score in the first place. The profile of the average admitted student floats with the quality and quantity of the applicant pool. ND is going to let in roughly 4,000 kids every year. If only 6,000 kids apply and they all have 18 ACTs, then that's what it takes to get in. If 18,000 kids apply with ACTs in the 30s, then the standard moves. The standard to be admitted as a regular student is "are you one of the 4,000 best applicants we've seen?" The standard to be admitted as a recruited varsity athlete is "will you be able to succeed academically at Notre Dame?"

Executive summary: "Regular" Notre Dame students are not evaluated against a standard academic profile. They're evaluated against one another. Recruited varsity athletes (and kids of big donors, etc.) are admitted if they have what it takes to be successful students at Notre Dame.

 

[NDohio]

I'll try one more time since I just typed this up in a PM and it feels a shame to waste it:

Notre Dame isn't that much different than other schools when it comes to admissions, but they really set themselves apart once the players are actually enrolled as students. They might pick easy majors and easy classes but at least they're "real" majors, "real" classes, and "real" grades from the professors.

I know I had a friend who was a varsity fencer at ND and his ACT was a 23, so to me that's as much proof as anything that athletes are admitted under a different standard, and not just a point or two here and there.

I think another key difference between Notre Dame and other schools is that admissions doesn't have a fixed "minimum" academic profile for ordinary students. Some places throw your application in the trash if you have less than, say, a 16 ACT. ND can say they don't give "waivers" to minimum test scores because they don't have an official minimum test score in the first place. The profile of the average admitted student floats with the quality and quantity of the applicant pool. ND is going to let in roughly 4,000 kids every year. If only 6,000 kids apply and they all have 18 ACTs, then that's what it takes to get in. If 18,000 kids apply with ACTs in the 30s, then the standard moves. The standard to be admitted as a regular student is "are you one of the 4,000 best applicants we've seen?" The standard to be admitted as a recruited varsity athlete is "will you be able to succeed academically at Notre Dame?"

Executive summary: "Regular" Notre Dame students are not evaluated against a standard academic profile. They're evaluated against one another. Recruited varsity athletes (and kids of big donors, etc.) are admitted if they have what it takes to be successful students at Notre Dame.

So, does it ever work in the other direction? Does a school like ND ever take a student/athlete that is far superior to their teammates in the classroom, but may just be a marginal player, so they can keep the overall team GPA up? Is there enough pressure from the academia that this happens?

I don't really have a point in all this, just curious ......

 

[irishroo]

I have no idea what you mean by this. Yes, Intro to Jazz exists. And so does McKenna's amazing (and athlete heavy) Ethology class. And so on and so forth. At every school there are some "easy" free electives. Every single one of those classes is open to all students. That athletes, like many students, elect to take them because they are easy or awesome or GPA boosters in free elective slots is not anything to write home about. They still have to take all the core courses for their major like any other student. And every major they take is a real major available to all students. To graduate with an engineering degree I had to take the same calculus, physics, mechanics, etc. as every other student. To graduate as a biology major, they have to take the same core courses as every other major. To graduate as a FTT major... yeah you get the idea.

Please let me know if you meant something else by "football class"... as in classes only football players can take.



There is no doubt that they get TONS of help from tutoring. This is mainly to offset the fact that they have 20-50 hours a week typically dedicated to a sport whereas a regular student has those same 20-50 to study or do what they want. Football players have mandatory study hall where they are forced to do as much work as possible in a concentrated period of time. They have individual tutoring because instead of having those 20-50 hours to go to office hours or TA sessions or do work in a group of their classmates... they're stuck trying to do it all in condensed odd hours of time.

Do they play by "a different set of rules" in the sense that no other students have access to these tutors? Yes. Do they still have to do all of the same work in all of the same classes as any other student? Yes. Never with my own eyes have I ever seen a tutor write a paper for a player, do an assignment for a player, or directly give answers to a player. I think you have a gross misunderstanding of what goes on.

I worked as a football tutor in 2010 and 2011 and I have absolutely seen this happen. Not a common occurrence, but it does happen.

 

[wizards8507]

So, does it ever work in the other direction? Does a school like ND ever take a student/athlete that is far superior to their teammates in the classroom, but may just be a marginal player, so they can keep the overall team GPA up? Is there enough pressure from the academia that this happens?

I don't really have a point in all this, just curious ......

I highly doubt it. Graduation rate is more important than GPA so the focus is more on getting kids a degree in four years rather than making sure the team has a B average or whatever. Plus, the number of athletic scholarships available are limited so it would be hard to justify "wasting" one on a kid who won't ever see the field.

 

[wizards8507]

I worked as a football tutor in 2010 and 2011 and I have absolutely seen this happen. Not a common occurrence, but it does happen.

That's another key distinction. There are "regular" students who absolutely worship the football guys and will help them cheat. It's not institutional fraud, but rouge individuals.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's another key distinction. There are "regular" students who absolutely worship the football guys and will help them cheat. It's not institutional fraud, but rouge individuals.

Never trust a tutor wearing too much make-up.

 

[Rack Em]

Never trust a tutor wearing too much make-up.

Tom Hammond?

 

[ulukinatme]

It looks like the battle has been won here, glad to see the good guys won. Nice job posting the articles, guys. I was going to say something along the lines that as the prosecutor, it's up to this guy to present his case with facts and disprove that ND isn't an upstanding school with strong academics and good student-athletes. As the defendant, you've got the graduation statistics and facts. You've also got the examples of athletes achieving as well the university's hard stance as those that were suspended for failing to live up to the task. After all, we're the ones that kick the players out when we find they've goofed, we're not the school that gets investigated for academic blunders after the fact and tries to cover it up.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Tom Hammond?

You joke, but his endorsement deal with the St. Joseph Funeral Home was quite a coup. Full access to the finest make-up artists in South Bend.

 

[bigedefense]

I feel your pain with the ND hate! I hear ND hate daily living in Mississippi. Its all SEC here and if you are not SEC, you must be a "commie"! HAHA! Well, yesterday a fellow teacher came in my room and started looking at all the ND stuff I have on my classroom walls and started. Back in my younger years, I tried using logic, but that was a useless tactic because idiots have no use for logic. I now employ a much better strategy. I just make fun of their school. IT'S SO EASY TO MAKE FUN OF AN SEC SCHOOL! I have no problem finding material to bash them. Lets face it, for me, its all about getting the students to laugh. That kills a teacher inside every time a student laughs at something important to them. So, I took about 2 minutes and found this pic that is now my avatar and printed about 20 pictures and put them on his door to his classroom and in various spots here at school. Also, its his screensaver pic and background on his computer. HAHA! Oh yeah, I posted it on twitter and asked him if these guys were Profs or just Alum.

 

[Irish#1]

At my former job I had to visit our facility in Michigan on a regular basis. Some were scUM fans and other MSU. They'd give me grief all the time. I changed their MS Outlook to play the ND fight song every time the got a new email. you don't mess with IT!