I support Phil of Duck Dynasty

wizards8507

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This my biggest problem with anyone. Have your beliefs. Support those you want. Get together with like-minded believers and believe together. But once you start proselytizing...then you are crossing a line regarding other people who don't share your same beliefs. I try my best not to proselytize my beliefs and I don't like it when others do it to me. Leave me the fuck alone and keep your beliefs to your self. If I want to know what you believe I will ask you. And a reporter did, and we got Phils answer.

That being said, much of the success of the show is the end of each episode. I grew up just like that. He has all the right in the world to say what he did and A&E had every right to do what they did.

And I agree eleventy bazillion percent with Buster. Believe what you want, just don't take away my rights while doing it.

Tell me, what power does Phil Robertson have to take away your rights? His goal is to PURSUADE people, not force people. That's it. Spread the message and hopefully it appeals to some folks. He's not trying to make you be a Christian or believe his particular version of Christianity. He's bearing witness to what he believes to be the truth. Jesus said "come, follow me," he didn't tie anyone up to a horse and drag them along with him.
 
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"Pre-entitlement"

What entitlement? Also it's hilarious when he says "No one was singing the blues" when blues was a major genre back then. That's just funny though.
 

notredomer23

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I haven't found the actual interview questions, but multiple reports seem to say his response was brought on from:

When asked about whether he witnessed bigotry or racism against African-American people growing up in the pre-Civil-Rights South, the ousted reality star opined: "I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field.... They're singing and happy," Robertson surmised.

He continued: "I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people'—not a word!... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."

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So he was asked if he had witnessed any racism, and he responded accordingly.

If you're referring to some other section of the interview, please let us know, but you're taking this so far out of context to the point it's blatantly false.

If this is in fact what was said, then anyone calling Robertson a racist should exit the thread rather quickly.
 
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Actually it is about not being able to call things as they are rather than being a jerk. People get in such an uproar for not being able to say the truth and having to sugarcoat things.

People can call things as they are without getting called "non-politically correct". It's really easy actually.
 
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To my knowledge yes. He is very open about their faith in the shows as each episode ends with a family meal and grace. Its nice.

Im not talking about the Christian schtick in general. Im talking about his thoughts on gays.

No one finds it a little strange that he never said anything all these years and now that he has a legitimate brand he says this.....
 

woolybug25

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"Pre-entitlement"

What entitlement? Also it's hilarious when he says "No one was singing the blues" when blues was a major genre back then. That's just funny though.

Can't tell if you're kidding here or not? So forgive me if you are. But he was referring to "no one was singing the blues" as a metophor for the happy state of mind of the black people he was around during the time. Not actually singing blues music.

Again, cant tell if you're serious. So my apologies if that is a joke that is going over my head.
 
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Tell me, what power does Phil Robertson have to take away your rights? His goal is to PURSUADE people, not force people. That's it. Spread the message and hopefully it appeals to some folks. He's not trying to make you be a Christian or believe his particular version of Christianity. He's bearing witness to what he believes to be the truth. Jesus said "come, follow me," he didn't tie anyone up to a horse and drag them along with him.

By saying stuff like that he is normalizing that line of thought. If 60% of the people thought minorities shouldn't get married, they can't do anything about it individually, but spreading that thinking leads to hate. There is power in words.
 

Woneone

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If this is in fact what was said, then anyone calling Robertson a racist should exit the thread rather quickly.

Na, won't happen. What will, however, reminds me of a quote:

“If you have the law, hammer the law. If you have the facts, hammer the facts. If you have neither the law nor the facts, hammer the table”.

We'll just need to buy more tables.
 
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Can't tell if you're kidding here or not? So forgive me if you are. But he was referring to "no one was singing the blues" as a metophor for the happy state of mind of the black people he was around during the time. Not actually singing blues music.

Again, cant tell if you're serious. So my apologies if that is a joke that is going over my head.

Yeah that's why I said, "That's just funny though." It's ironic.
 

woolybug25

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Im not talking about the Christian schtick in general. Im talking about his thoughts on gays.

No one finds it a little strange that he never said anything all these years and now that he has a legitimate brand he says this.....

Not at all. He's never been confronted on the topic. He was specifically asked what he believed were sins. He answered the question.

The slimy "journalist" peppered him with a bunch of these questions until he got a bite.
 
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Government entitlement programs. Welfare, food stamps, Obama phones, etc. It's not a race issue, it's a poverty issue.

Calling it "entitlement" makes it sound like he means black people think they are "entitled" to free things, which is a race issue.
 

gkIrish

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To me, the underlying problem is this: Extremism/Radicalism

Too many people are too invested in ONE aspect of their lives. Many homosexuals make it their life's mission to yell at people who disagree with their lifestyle. Fundamentalist Christians try as hard as they can to prevent people from doing something that has no effect whatsoever on their lives. Everyone needs to take a step back and realize that who we choose to fuck is just ONE part of our lives. There's a whole lot of other issues that we can disagree over. You don't have to make your life about being gay. Conversely, you don't have to make religion control everything you do.

This speech from the Matt Skinner character on West Wing (the gay Republican congressman) really hits home with me. When asked how he could be a member of the Republican party considering their general attitude towards gays, he responds:

"I agree with 95% of the Republican platform. I believe in local government. I'm in favor of individual rights rather than group rights. I believe free markets lead to free people and that the country needs a strong national defense. My life doesn't have to be about being a homosexual. It doesn't have to be entirely about that."

I hope my position makes some sense.
 

chubler

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Buster, Aloha-
a question/challenge for either or both of you:

You've both discussed implicitly or explicitly the concept that religious concerns are cited by those attempting to deny inalienable rights or human rights to groups of people they find objectionable (pardon my putting words in your mouth, please correct them if I'm interpreting your position incorrectly.)

What I'd like to hear is what standard or source material you're using as a guide to determine what is good or bad, right or wrong, human right or privilege. I'm not convinced those things are as cut and dry across people, religions, and cultures as you seem to think.

In other words, how do you justify your personal set of values/beliefs/moral principles as a benchmark to judge Phil's, or Pope Francis', or a hypothetical fundamentalist Muslim? Is there a reason your beliefs are more right than theirs?

I'd additionally like to contest the assertion that people are being treated equally when everyone is equally prohibited from an action. I'm just as prohibited from marrying a man in my home state as any gay man, but I'm sure you don't consider that equality.

I'm all for discussing hot button topics, because not enough of that goes on and we'll never make any progress unless we discuss them, but I'd prefer we toned down the volume and the aggressive rhetoric, especially when so many of the arguments on all sides rest on the shakiest of ground.
 

wizards8507

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No one finds it a little strange that he never said anything all these years and now that he has a legitimate brand he says this.....
He's never be interviewed by GQ before. He's been very open about his faith in numerous interviews.

By saying stuff like that he is normalizing that line of thought. If 60% of the people thought minorities shouldn't get married, they can't do anything about it individually, but spreading that thinking leads to hate. There is power in words.
I don't think you know what "hate" means. Thinking something is a sin does not mean you hate the sinner. In fact, that's the exact policy of our Lady's University and the Catholic Church on homosexuality. Homosexual acts are sinful, but love homosexual people.

I'm a sinner myself, just like the rest of us. I'd be willing to bet that a fair number of posters on this board are Catholics who have seen pornography a time or two. I bet Phil would say the same thing about pornography that he's said about homosexuality. I know I personally wouldn't be outraged by that because I know that thinking pornography is sinful is not equal to hating anyone who has ever seen it.
 

nlroma1o

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By saying stuff like that he is normalizing that line of thought. If 60% of the people thought minorities shouldn't get married, they can't do anything about it individually, but spreading that thinking leads to hate. There is power in words.

With this logic, you are saying that any two people with disagreeing beliefs are doing nothing but spreading hatred.

So because I love NY style pizza and claim to people that it is better than Chicago style pizza, I am not spreading hatred towards those Chicago style supporters....???

That's absurd bro
 
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Cackalacky

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Tell me, what power does Phil Robertson have to take away your rights? His goal is to PURSUADE people, not force people. That's it. Spread the message and hopefully it appeals to some folks. He's not trying to make you be a Christian or believe his particular version of Christianity. He's bearing witness to what he believes to be the truth. Jesus said "come, follow me," he didn't tie anyone up to a horse and drag them along with him.

You missed my point completely. WTF is all this^^^?
He's not trying to make you be a Christian or believe his particular version of Christianity. He's bearing witness to what he believes to be the truth.

Isn't that the point of proselytizing? To convert people? His version of the truth is not other peoples version of the truth.

And by the way, all those politicians claiming to be christians making laws do infringe on peoples rights....for example Oklahoma wanted the 10 commandments up on public property. They wanted it real bad and the law they made also ended up allowing for other religions to place one there too. So now there is a festivus pole and plans for a satanic statue as well as a hindu statue and everyone in Oklahoma is all pissed off because these other groups want to display their beliefs. Stupid. Every bit of it.
 
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woolybug25

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So because I love NY style pizza and claim to people that it is better than Chicago style pizza, I am not spreading hatred towards those Chicago style supporters....???

That's absurd bro

Pfftt... it's not hatred if its a fact!
 

nsideirish

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Guarantee he ends up on Fox News very soon as a "commentator".


Just like ol' Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin.
 

wizards8507

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Calling it "entitlement" makes it sound like he means black people think they are "entitled" to free things, which is a race issue.

Are you just trolling us now? "Entitlement program" is a VERY common turn of phrase in the American vernacular. Have you seriously never heard it used in this context? Do a quick Google of "entitlement program," or "entitlement reform."

An entitlement is a guarantee of access to something, such as to welfare benefits, based on established rights or by legislation. A "right" is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an "entitlement" is a provision made in accordance with a legal framework of a society.
 
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With this logic, you are saying that any two people with disagreeing beliefs are doing nothing but spreading hatred.

So because I love NY style pizza and claim to people that it is better than Chicago style pizza, I am not spreading hatred towards those Chicago style supporters....???

That's absurd bro

Can people who prefer Chicago Style pizza not get married, get fired for no reason, get bullied until they commit suicide at extremely high rates, and are an unprotected class?
 
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Cackalacky

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Im not talking about the Christian schtick in general. Im talking about his thoughts on gays.

No one finds it a little strange that he never said anything all these years and now that he has a legitimate brand he says this.....

Sorry. I have not heard of it from the show.
 

phgreek

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This my biggest problem with anyone. Have your beliefs. Support those you want. Get together with like-minded believers and believe together. But once you start proselytizing...then you are crossing a line regarding other people who don't share your same beliefs. I try my best not to proselytize my beliefs and I don't like it when others do it to me. Leave me the fuck alone and keep your beliefs to your self. If I want to know what you believe I will ask you. And a reporter did, and we got Phils answer.

That being said, much of the success of the show is the end of each episode. I grew up just like that. He has all the right in the world to say what he did and A&E had every right to do what they did.

And I agree eleventy bazillion percent with Buster. Believe what you want, just don't take away my rights while doing it.

I guess I come down here...sort of. Sort of because he can't be a good Christian if he isn't trying to save others who he perceives as crosswise with God. I don't do it...but I am real tolerant of other faiths who try and "save" me because I know WHY they do it.

I really think people confuse a guy like this with someone in an elected position poised to make policy. Not the same thing...He's just another star with a controversial opinion...BFD!
 

nsideirish

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Does he have any tattoos? I love when tattooed people declare homosexuality as a sin and cite the relevant Leviticus passage. And then completely ignore the fact that the very same passage they cite states that having tattoos on your body is a sin.
 

nlroma1o

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Guarantee he ends up on Fox News very soon as a "commentator".


Just like ol' Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin.

I think his son Willie was actually on O'Reily a few months back.

I randomly remembered that.
 

pkt77242

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1. No doubt that there are tons or people that are deeply offended by what he said. There are equally tons of people that are outraged that he was dismissed for expressing his beliefs. I'd guess that the sides are equal.

2. I think Obama won the election because of a huge turnout from minorities and young people (many of which were incredibly uninformed on the issues). I have no clue whether that translates into more democrats than republicans as a whole.

3. My frustration with this issue stems from the larger fact that one side controls the narrative in American media. This guy stood no chance because there are ten news channels that automatically pick up this story and attack conservative viewpoints. The executives at A&E probably don't give two shits about his stance on homosexuality, but they were forced into action because of the unbalanced reporting on the story. This would never have happened if the script was flipped.

Really? There are 3 really big cable news channels that people watch. Here are their average daily viewership for 2013
Fox: 1,770,000
MSNBC: 645,000
CNN: 578,000
If you want we can include Headline news : 403,000

Shockingly Fox has a higher daily average than the next 3 combined. So before you start whining about one side controlling the narrative, why don't you look at the hard numbers.

CNN Ratings, 11 Months Into the Year It's Still Fox and the Fogies | Reese Schonfeld
 

wizards8507

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Stupid. Every bit of it.

I actually agree, and that's why I'm a libertarian, not a conservative. The difference is that Phil is just speaking as a private citizen. He's not trying to codify his beliefs into law.
 
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