'14 CA WR Erik Brown (Cal Verbal)

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, now it's become a whole other issue then. That scenario could be certainly be feasible. You're right-- maybe the staff doesn't like him as being the 8th CB or WR. They may prefer a 5th year spot over him at that point. And then if they whiff on Quick, McKenzie, and have a transfer of a current player...THEN they'd like him.

Pfft. What are the odds of that happening?

 

[STLDomer]

“@Scott_Schrader: I am hearing #USC fans may get some big news from about an elite player committed to another school very soon!!”

Just a guess that this is Brown

EDIT: nevermind, looks like it's the OL committed to Bama Talamievo

 

[dublinirish]

“@Scott_Schrader: I am hearing #USC fans may get some big news from about an elite player committed to another school very soon!!”

Just a guess that this is Brown

EDIT: nevermind, looks like it's the OL committed to Bama Talamievo

yeah he jumped to USC. Wanted to stay close to home.

 

[Irish#1]

yeah he jumped to USC. Wanted to stay close to home.

Damn that Pat Haden. Why couldn't he be more emotional and care about the personal side of someone and let Kiffy keep his job at least through the end of the year?

 

[IrishLax]

“@Scott_Schrader: I am hearing #USC fans may get some big news from about an elite player committed to another school very soon!!”

Just a guess that this is Brown

EDIT: nevermind, looks like it's the OL committed to Bama Talamievo

Wow, interesting. Is this official? Reinforces my fear of USC landing all of Juju/Mama/Luatua.

 

[tko]

USC national champs 2015

 

[IrishLax]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

 

[QuarrelsomeIrishAmerican]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

Yup.

 

[Classic Irish]

USC national champs 2015

Followed by probation in 2016. Whenever they've been good, they subsequently go on probation.

 

[Irishnuke]

USC national champs 2015

Lol. Ok

 

[Domina Nostra]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

Honesty is important at a school like ND, since it is cold, hard to get through, and not a Top 10 party school.

So what is the sales pitch? "We like what we've seen and we like where your heading. We're confident that you are going to prove to be one of the better players in teh country your senior year..."

Later... "Kid, you have a lot of potential, but you are a step behind. After watching your senior year, I'm worried that you are just not going to get the chance to develop if you come here. That is up to you, but you really need to rethink your committment."

 

[Emcee77]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

Do the players know that they might get nudged out later in the cycle though? I could not support this kind of tactic if the borderline kid we take early in the cycle shuts down recruiting in reliance on our offer.

Imagine this scenario:
All summer we tell Erik Brown how much we love and want him and we get him to flip from Washington prior to his senior season. Erik Brown shuts down his recruitment in reliance on our offer. In January 2014, Quick commits to us, so we tell Brown that we can no longer take him. He "decommits" and crawls back to UW, but now Sarkisian is full and HE can't take Brown. Brown scrounges for an offer and goes to Utah State or Idaho or Nevada or some school inferior to UW in both football and academics.

I know it puts us at a disadvantage, but I wouldn't be ok with that.

The bolded is basically what we do; we just save spots for elite recruits and then fill them with 5th years or guys like Brown if we don't get them. It's not ideal, but is the alternative really fair?

 

[NDohio]

Do the players know that they might get nudged out later in the cycle though? I could not support this kind of tactic if the borderline kid we take early in the cycle shuts down recruiting in reliance on our offer.

Imagine this scenario:
All summer we tell Erik Brown how much we love and want him and we get him to flip from Washington prior to his senior season. Erik Brown shuts down his recruitment in reliance on our offer. In January 2014, Quick commits to us, so we tell Brown that we can no longer take him. He "decommits" and crawls back to UW, but now Sarkisian is full and HE can't take Brown. Brown scrounges for an offer and goes to Utah State or Idaho or Nevada or some school inferior to UW in both football and academics.

I know it puts us at a disadvantage, but I wouldn't be ok with that.

The bolded is basically what we do; we just save spots for elite recruits and then fill them with 5th years or guys like Brown. It's not ideal, but is the alternative really fair?

Yep. I agree completely. It does put ND at a disadvantage, but the integrity of the University is why I am a fan of the football team.

 

[Son of Kenmare]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

As a Catholic University, I would hope that we would never behave in this manner. In my view, this breaks the eighth commandment. The integrity of the university has to be one of the pillars it is willing to defend and live by. If we miss out on some prospects due to behaving in an ethical and christian manner, I'm ok with that.

 

[dwshade]

Yep. I agree completely. It does put ND at a disadvantage, but the integrity of the University is why I am a fan of the football team.

Totally agree. To accept a kid's commitment and then later pull the rug out from under him is classless. Which is why I'm not surprised Urbie pulls stuff like that.

 

[dublinirish]

honestly Urbie probably feels good about letting the kid catch on at WMU. Dumping him on signing day or the week beforehand is common in the SEC.

 

[pumpdog20]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

Yeah, I want no part of any of this nonsense. If that means a lack of quality depth so be it. If our coach gives an offer, than stick to it. I don't even want to do the whole conditional offer crap, unless it's academic related.

 

[ResLife Hero]

If you guys want to see example of how you take the players early and then deal with the spots later, look no further than Lonnie Johnson. Ohio State signed him up pre-summer as a quality depth piece... he's a legitimate athlete that can play DB or WR. Then, when it got time that they didn't need him with 4 other WRs on board, he "decommits" and is committing to Western Michigan now.

Simply put, this is how you should handle guys like Hubbard or Brown or whomever. Don't wait on offering, offer early and then if better prospects want on board you can find a way to shake out numbers before NSD and avoid the dreaded oversigning if that's really a big issue. You don't want to be reaching for 3 depth pieces when the pickings are slim late in the cycle, you want to sign those guys up early and spend your final months swinging for the fences with other prospects.

Isn't this basically what we did with Danny Mattingly last year? I agree it's cutthroat, but so is the business of recruiting.

 

[IrishLax]

Honesty is important at a school like ND, since it is cold, hard to get through, and not a Top 10 party school.

So what is the sales pitch? "We like what we've seen and we like where your heading. We're confident that you are going to prove to be one of the better players in teh country your senior year..."

Later... "Kid, you have a lot of potential, but you are a step behind. After watching your senior year, I'm worried that you are just not going to get the chance to develop if you come here. That is up to you, but you really need to rethink your committment."

IMO, if you think a prospect has the ability to be a legitimate contributor to the team, you offer them and recruit them. You don't wait for bigger fish and then try to swoop in January on players that were further down the board. You continue to recruit big fish, and IF you are lucky enough to sign a bunch of the big fish and are in a numbers crunch you either:
1. Realistically state to the prospect "we're happy to have you and honor your scholarship, but the other 4 players we're recruiting are higher up on our board and if you're looking for early playing time you may want to consider other options, or you can come here ready to compete against a lot of depth." This would handle most scenarios in a very fair way.
2. In the event that you still have too many bodies AND for the first time ever you don't get any attrition/transfers, then you take it out of the 5Y pool.

The bolded is basically what we do; we just save spots for elite recruits and then fill them with 5th years or guys like Brown if we don't get them. It's not ideal, but is the alternative really fair?

Yep. I agree completely. It does put ND at a disadvantage, but the integrity of the University is why I am a fan of the football team.

As a Catholic University, I would hope that we would never behave in this manner. In my view, this breaks the eighth commandment. The integrity of the university has to be one of the pillars it is willing to defend and live by. If we miss out on some prospects due to behaving in an ethical and christian manner, I'm ok with that.

Totally agree. To accept a kid's commitment and then later pull the rug out from under him is classless. Which is why I'm not surprised Urbie pulls stuff like that.

Yeah, I want no part of any of this nonsense. If that means a lack of quality depth so be it. If our coach gives an offer, than stick to it. I don't even want to do the whole conditional offer crap, unless it's academic related.

It's perfectly valid to have the opinion that Notre Dame should operate on some superior moral plane that almost no one else operates on. I don't think that's the best way to approach things. I say this because virtually every NCAA sport at virtually every school doesn't operate this way. In lesser sports, kids get straight up cut all the time. Whether because of a coaching change or transfers or recruiting or a myriad of other reasons. I had a friend at Syracuse who was a top recruit (consensus top 10) at his position and they promised him that they only recruit one kid a year for what he played and he was "their guy." He played as a true frosh but eventually got beat out by a kid in the class above him who had redshirted. Then the staff brought in multiple transfers and some fresh recruits... and coming into his junior season they simply said they needed his spot/money for other kids and that was that.

That is the reality of college sports. And no... I'm not advocating ND do anything close to that, because I find it unethical. What I am advocating is recruiting kids earlier and harder who are GOOD but not elite players, and then being prepared in the rare case that there is an overcrowding issue to say "here's where you stand, and why it might be hard to get on the field." It's an honest, up front approach that ensure we don't get burned like we typically do.

 

[irishog77]

IMO, if you think a prospect has the ability to be a legitimate contributor to the team, you offer them and recruit them. You don't wait for bigger fish and then try to swoop in January on players that were further down the board. You continue to recruit big fish, and IF you are lucky enough to sign a bunch of the big fish and are in a numbers crunch you either:
1. Realistically state to the prospect "we're happy to have you and honor your scholarship, but the other 4 players we're recruiting are higher up on our board and if you're looking for early playing time you may want to consider other options, or you can come here ready to compete against a lot of depth." This would handle most scenarios in a very fair way.
2. In the event that you still have too many bodies AND for the first time ever you don't get any attrition/transfers, then you take it out of the 5Y pool.

I don't know, Lax. Sounds good in theory....but even the first time ND can't bring back a Zack Martin in favor of a John Turner, there's a major problem.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't know, Lax. Sounds good in theory....but even the first time ND can't bring back a Zack Martin in favor of a John Turner, there's a major problem.

I'd have to hope that it would never get to that point... I think in the rare case that it would happen, you'd be looking at a choice between a Kendall Moore and a Niles Sykes/Erik Brown/Sam Hubbard.

 

[irishog77]

I'd have to hope that it would never get to that point... I think in the rare case that it would happen, you'd be looking at a choice between a Kendall Moore and a Niles Sykes/Erik Brown/Sam Hubbard.

I agree. And I think your entire argument has merit.

I think it can be, overall, dangerous to have a policy in place (in any profession/business/institution) where you are hoping things don't ever get to a certain point-- a self-designed line in the sand.

 

[STLDomer]

Flipped to Cal

 

[PANDFAN]

Flipped to Cal

wow

 

[IrishLax]

Flipped to Cal

wut.

 

[tko]

Cal is a terrible program. Good luck kid.

 

[PANDFAN]

obvious he didn't want to go to washington and has been looking everywhere...but really shocked w/ this out of no where...

 

[dublinirish]

probably wanted to stay closer to home but still Cal is a tyrefire

 

[BeauBenken]

This guy really looks like there was something with Washington that he didn't like, and he was willing to go almost anywhere else.

 

[Emcee77]

probably wanted to stay closer to home but still Cal is a tyrefire

He's from SoCal though ... it's not even that close.

Very weird.