Jonathan Martin-Richie Incognito

[Ndaccountant]

...if this is the case, and Martin was THAT FAR removed from his team...


Then is it really Incognito's (and the rest of the Dolphins roster which includes many, many black players) problem?

Again, nobody else had an issue. Either you gel with the team or you don't.

So if everyone else is doing it, or is at least not stopping it, it's okay?

 

[irishpat183]

I would agree, but the example referenced was ON the field... I'm a gigantic supporter of "what happens on the field, stays on the field." When you're in the heat of battle, you say stuff and might even do stuff that is unmentionable. People just tried to start a storm over Pacman Jones threatening a WR from the Jets, but the Jets WR blew it off and said, "I didn't take it as a threat. He said it on the field in the heat of the moment."

However, what Incognito has been doing is NOT on the field. He's taking it too far, and that's my whole issue.

I understand you want to toughen your teammate up, and I agree that some people are made better for it in the long run. However, Incognito should have kept it strictly on the practice field by getting after Martin in drills, and probably should've realized that Martin was bit unstable.

And thats what, at least I believe, the coaches meant. There is no effing way the coaches ask players to harass other guys via text or call them racist names. That's is idiotic and career suicide.


And none of us, including myself, really know what Martin and Incognito's relatioship was...they could be buddies and Martin just had enough? That would explain the texts and such as just them going back and forth (for the record, we don't see what martin texted Incognito)


I hate to say it...but if this wasn't the NFL, it'd be a very different convo. There is absolutely different rules for different circumstances.

 

[Ndaccountant]

And thats what, at least I believe, the coaches meant. There is no effing way the coaches ask players to harass other guys via text or call them racist names. That's is idiotic and career suicide.


And none of us, including myself, really know what Martin and Incognito's relatioship was...they could be buddies and Martin just had enough? That would explain the texts and such as just them going back and forth (for the record, we don't see what martin texted Incognito)


I hate to say it...but if this wasn't the NFL, it'd be a very different convo. There is absolutely different rules for different circumstances.

There is no way that any coaches would actually run a bounty program to injure other players, right?

 

[irishpat183]

There is no way that any coaches would actually run a bounty program to injure other players, right?

Hey, for the record, I didn't see a problem with the bounty issue. ONly when it got to the point of "put him on a cart" did I say it was an issue


But putting in a pot for the biggest hit? I got NO problem with that. Hell, we did that in high school.

We called it a "soda hit". Big hit on film....coach bought you a soda.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

How the media wants to promote it is inconsequential. This was workplace harassment and nobody should have to endure that type of treatment when they are trying to make a living.

/thread

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"You can't help a situation you didn't know existed, that nobody in this locker room knew existed." - Ryan Tannehill <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Dolphins&src=hash">#Dolphins</a></p>— FOXSportsLive (@FOXSportsLive) <a href="https://twitter.com/FOXSportsLive/statuses/398211742653616128">November 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Ndaccountant]

Hey, for the record, I didn't see a problem with the bounty issue. ONly when it got to the point of "put him on a cart" did I say it was an issue


But putting in a pot for the biggest hit? I got NO problem with that. Hell, we did that in high school.

We called it a "soda hit". Big hit on film....coach bought you a soda.

But the fact of the matter is that they DID offer it for injuries. So, the fact that everyone participated and played the game made it okay? Certainly not. Which is why claiming that nobody said anything but Martin is a shallow argument. They all were in the wrong then. You cannot convince me that other OL didn't know this was going on.

BTW, you could make the argument that the coaches have their job on the line if they didn't start winning and needed Martin to play better to win. As someone else stated in the thread, it's a selfish league and I could see the coaches ordering him to toughen up. You can question the intent of those orders, but by assigning such a task to perhaps the biggest azzhat on the team, you can reasonably assume they knew what they were doing.

 

[NYIrish14]

I literally LOL'd reading Pat and Wooly's exchange in this thread.

 

[irishpat183]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"You can't help a situation you didn't know existed, that nobody in this locker room knew existed." - Ryan Tannehill <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Dolphins&src=hash">#Dolphins</a></p>— FOXSportsLive (@FOXSportsLive) <a href="https://twitter.com/FOXSportsLive/statuses/398211742653616128">November 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Like I said...there is more to this than "Poor Martin got bullied".


I'm betting Martin and Incognito were buddies until a despute (probably over that money for vegas deal).


This non-story has become one becuase of overly sensitive people, the media, and Incognito's tweets.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

ESPN was just reporting that Martin and Dion Jordan got into a fight at one of his last practices, and Incognito was the FIRST player to get between them defending Martin.

 

[woolybug25]

I get this. I really do.

But you also must admit that this is an entirely different kind of "workplace" that is run by testosterone.

Are you now gonna regulate what is said on the field? Warren Sapp is on record as saying that Incognito called him a Nigg** on the field and he didn't care...why? because that's the culture and it was a "term of endearment". Never heard a word about that until now and Sapp retired years ago....


Again, you can't say this is a typical workplace and typical rules apply. That would be stupid.

Then the rest of the world, REALITY that is, is stupid. Every workplace has it's own culture, environment, etc. But they all still have to abide by federal and state employment law. Period.

If a girl works at a strip club, she has the same sexual harassment rights given by the government that she would if she worked at Walmart. You might not like that fact, or think its stupid, but its reality.

In this country, we have laws. If a player files a complaint about racism in the workplace, and it is found to be true. There are consequences.

 

[STLDomer]

“@HubbuchNYP: Hartline is outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it.”

“@AdamHBeasley: Clabo didn't come out and say it, but he inferred Incognito drunk-dialed Martin when he left the now-infamous voice mail.”

“@JeffDarlington: Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."”

“@JeffDarlington: In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.”

Seems most of the players are behind Incognito and mad at Martin

 

[ACamp1900]

“@HubbuchNYP: Hartline is outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it.”

“@AdamHBeasley: Clabo didn't come out and say it, but he inferred Incognito drunk-dialed Martin when he left the now-infamous voice mail.”

“@JeffDarlington: Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."”

“@JeffDarlington: In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.”

Seems most of the players are behind Incognito and mad at Martin

paging 'king of the morons...'

 

[Irish Insanity]

“@HubbuchNYP: Hartline is outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it.”

“@AdamHBeasley: Clabo didn't come out and say it, but he inferred Incognito drunk-dialed Martin when he left the now-infamous voice mail.”

“@JeffDarlington: Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."”

“@JeffDarlington: In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.”

Seems most of the players are behind Incognito and mad at Martin

All valid points, but I'm sure over time if it was continued activities Martin became alienated from some of the others. Especially considering Incognito was on the leaders squad. He was the team leader.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

**** is weird

Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin, Lydon Murtha says | The MMQB with Peter King

 

[dublinirish]

I lol'ed:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Someday Martin & Incognito will have CTE and the NFL will ignore both of them</p>— ryan van bibber (@justRVB) <a href="https://twitter.com/justRVB/statuses/398444615017050113">November 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[irishpat183]

ESPN was just reporting that Martin and Dion Jordan got into a fight at one of his last practices, and Incognito was the FIRST player to get between them defending Martin.

...Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

 

[irishpat183]

Well this thread got stupid quickly. I wonder if it was lord of the morons who caused it?

That doesn't sound like playfull banter. If that's Incognito's idea of "playful banter via hazing the rookie," then he's just an uncreative douche with a terrible sense of humor.

Also, you keep referencing the media shitsstorm... most of that was brought on by Incognito himself when he decided to call everyone out on Twitter.

So calling a half black dude a "half nigg**" is your idea of "playful banter"

Seriously... do you have a mild personality disorder or something?

But Wooly, the black dudes in the lockerroom named Incognito an honorary brother! That makes it okay for him to use the n-word!

You are unbelievable. You don't even bother to research the topics you talk about. Just spit off whatever comes off the top of your head. Here is how this dude has treated "his own".

• As a freshman at Nebraska in 2002, Incognito (according to USA Today this week) bullied teammate Jack Limbaugh to the point where he stormed off at practice.

• After several incidents involving fans and then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo (during a game against the Tennessee Titans), Incognito was released in December 2009.

• Incognito was voted the "NFL's dirtiest player" by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players in 2009.

• The incidents with Jonathan Martin, which reportedly dated from his rookie season, and through April OTAs, came to light in November.

Lord of the Morons says:

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[pkt77242]

Not so fast Pat, did you see today's report that before Martin left the team his agent called the Fins GM to complain about Incognito's behavior towards Martin and get this the GM said that Martin should confront him and yes he even mentioned that Martin should punch him. I have a feeling that this story will have many more twists and turns before it is over.

 

[woolybug25]

Lord of the Morons says:

[/URL][/IMG]

2 things…

1) you should probably wait to hear the facts before you claim victory.

2) Can the king of the morons please learn how to embed pics without the

 

[woolybug25]

Oh… and how does Martin being defended before change the fact that the harassment happened? Again, he still has the same legal rights as a worker.

 

[kmoose]

In NFL locker rooms, that's how biz is handled.

How many NFL locker rooms have you been a part of?

 

[woolybug25]

How many NFL locker rooms have you been a part of?

Exactly… Furthermore, how does that change anything?

If someone works at a gym, where the guys are all macho, and harass the little yoga instructor…. guess what? They certainly can't use the "that's how biz is handled here" as a reason in court.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Exactly… Furthermore, how does that change anything?

If someone works at a gym, where the guys are all macho, and harass the little yoga instructor…. guess what? They certainly can't use the "that's how biz is handled here" as a reason in court.

That is true and I agree with you.

However, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any harassment court cases involving NFL teammates based on things said in the locker room. Many of the things they say to each other could be taken that way, but it rarely does.

 

[IrishLax]

“@HubbuchNYP: Hartline is outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it.”

“@AdamHBeasley: Clabo didn't come out and say it, but he inferred Incognito drunk-dialed Martin when he left the now-infamous voice mail.”

“@JeffDarlington: Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."”

“@JeffDarlington: In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.”

Seems most of the players are behind Incognito and mad at Martin

Yup... like many of us theorized, there is a whole strange shoe left to drop with Martin. Again, Richie Incognito has the resume to prove that he is scum. That's irrefutable. And I don't think someone like him has any place in the league, but maybe I'm soft.

But from the rumors that surface when Martin first left the team, to the rumors that surfaced after he released the voicemail, to the apparent lack of blowback against Incognito by players around the league and on his own team relative to what you'd expect... the bottom line is that there is another part to the story that involves Martin having issues, and it's leaking out a bit more each day.

 

[irishpat183]

Not so fast Pat, did you see today's report that before Martin left the team his agent called the Fins GM to complain about Incognito's behavior towards Martin and get this the GM said that Martin should confront him and yes he even mentioned that Martin should punch him. I have a feeling that this story will have many more twists and turns before it is over.

2 things…

1) you should probably wait to hear the facts before you claim victory.

2) Can the king of the morons please learn how to embed pics without the brackets?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="woolybug25, post: 1153358, member: 7585"]Oh… and how does Martin being defended before change the fact that the harassment happened? Again, he still has the same legal rights as a worker.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="kmoose, post: 1153359, member: 9396"]How many NFL locker rooms have you been a part of?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="woolybug25, post: 1153360, member: 4674"]Exactly… Furthermore, how does that change anything?

If someone works at a gym, where the guys are all macho, and harass the little yoga instructor…. guess what? They certainly can't use the "that's how biz is handled here" as a reason in court.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Ndaccountant, post: 1153362, member: 4303"]That is true and I agree with you.

However, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any harassment court cases involving NFL teammates based on things said in the locker room. Many of the things they say to each other could be taken that way, but it rarely does.[/QUOTE]

Oh, was the peanut gallery saying something? I can't hear you blowhard, bleeding hearts over all my WINNING.


Lord of Morons.......you can all be my minions.

 

[woolybug25]

Oh, was the peanut gallery saying something? I can't hear you blowhard, bleeding hearts over all my WINNING.


Lord of Morons.......you can all be my minions.

You should add "King of Jumping to Conclusions" to your lengthy list of idiocy.

Arguing you is like watching monkeys fvck a doorknob. Funny to watch at first, but then we eventually realize that we will need to open the door with said doorknob.

Your debates on this site seriously bring down the level of intelligent discourse. You are simply incapable of normal conversation.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Oh, was the peanut gallery saying something? I can't hear you blowhard, bleeding hearts over all my WINNING.


Lord of Morons.......you can all be my minions.

Hang on there buddy.

The discussion you and I had yesterday was on leadership and whether or not Martin was being "soft" and that the racist and bully terms were out of line. We both were operating on the assumption the Martin was indeed being harassed and you thought it was okay because he needs to be tough. I am not sure where there is a "winning" in our discussion as it was more about the merits of leadership and perceived toughness, but that is okay if you want to run with it. I personally don't think the discussion we had could have resulted in either of us winning.......

 

[irishpat183]

Again, Non-story blown up by bleeding hearts and the media. You just had to have a NFL player with a bullying story...so you reached and got your hand slapped when the facts came out.


This stuff goes on in every NFL locker room...it's the norm. And yes, i do know. I have some very good buddies with connections and have been in the locker rooms for the Texans and Cards more than once. My intership in college was in a MLB locker room (which was the same). Hung out with numerous players after games.


So while I'm not in there on a day to day basis, I've witnessed the behavior first hand.



Martin got butt hurt and put on the act. He's a coward. And should be outta the league for breaking locker room code. Incognito, while an ******* ON THE FIELD, seems to have no problems with teammates.

 

[irishpat183]

You should add "King of Jumping to Conclusions" to your lengthy list of idiocy.

Arguing you is like watching monkeys fvck a doorknob. Funny to watch at first, but then we eventually realize that we will need to open the door with said doorknob.

Your debates on this site seriously bring down the level of intelligent discourse. You are simply incapable of normal conversation.

^It's like I can't even tell you lost the argument......


When you're done assaulting my intelligence, apologize for wiffing on this argument. Hell, just send some reps my way, I'll allow you to not hide in shame at the *** kicking you just took.

When you apologize for your moronic argument about "rules of the workplace" in regards to NFL locker rooms we can begin to heal.