Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

[NDBoiler]

Wasn't there a period of time somewhere in the past couple of seasons where Martin was calling plays also? I thought there was and a similar situation ensued with BK taking over.

 

[Onemanwolfpack]

Wasn't there a period of time somewhere in the past couple of seasons where Martin was calling plays also? I thought there was and a similar situation ensued with BK taking over.

Below is the link to the article where the Purdue CB says he knew what we were going to run.

http://www.jconline.com/article/201...150014/Purdue-football-Boilermakers-Rob-Henry

 

[phgreek]

If my high school team could install plays on a weekly basis, so can Notre Dame.

...new plays for scheme...yea you can do some things I guess. I'd be shocked if what we are talking about is really "New" plays...Playbook in college contains more plays than can be executed reliably, thus things get activated each week....ie practiced/refreshed.

But in the middle of the damned game when you have execution failure upon failure(not just being stopped, but drops, miscues, etc.)...what do you do? Grow the play sheet or shrink it?

To me what is predictable is people blaming the OC for lacking imagination. ...can't call out kids real hard, but as a unit the offense can't man the "brush" in the first half...is it any wander we go to "paint by numbers" in response?

None of what I've seen is incompetence...or lack of imagination. Its what you do in response to your team's game day performance. At least what he's done makes sense to me...low risk, playmaker (who is awake today) in space....let him make a play.

Now, there is only 1 Brian Kelly. He is the right guy to do what needed done against Purdue...which is ignore the first half sucking ***, and open it up...but I would call that response counter-intuitive...and it won't always work.

Need some execution of the gameday package, then we'll see how Dumb Martin is. Until then, I can't tell anything other than he responds like I'd expect him to to uninspired lack of execution. He keeps working back to get SOMETHING. I'm guessing he is one frustrated dude.

The defense is easily summed up as a mental toughness deficit...hope that comes. Yea they have some holes, but the failures that kill are tackling, and Gary Grey type coverage on the back end...close enough to give you hope, but not effective.

 

[ND NYC]

so, essentially you guys saying we need "a schematic advantage" on offense?

 

[IrishGlory]

knowing and executing is a big difference....on that play i don't know if i have ever seen DD run that fast

While I understand your point, I'm just saying that if they knew Rees was throwing it deep to DD, or it was even an option, why did they play 1v1 on the outside with no safety help overtop.

 

[BGIF]

Wasn't there a period of time somewhere in the past couple of seasons where Martin was calling plays also? I thought there was and a similar situation ensued with BK taking over.

I thought it was more the reverse.

Molnar was the O.C. in '10. After he left for UMass, Martin was made O.C. I thought Kelly had him on a short leash in '11 but this preseason Kelly noted he would focus more on being the Head Coach and would delegate play calling to Martin.

 

[Irishbounty28]

The second half Notre Dame switched up some of their looks at the line of scrimmage. The screen to Daniels that went for ten yards at the beginning of the half had both TJ, and him lined up on the same side. This isn't how it was run in the first half, and it was typically a "blocking" receiver lined up next to whoever was going to receive the screen.

This staff believes we will win with groupings that are conducive to down and distance. This is predicated on the fact that if the play is executed properly it shouldn't matter if the defense knows. This is what many teams around the country do every week. You don't think that after watching tape Kelly and Co didn't pick up on tendencies that Purdue had? The fact is that Purdue was executing better than we were in the first half, period!

This whole "we need to be more diverse on offense" is a load of crap imo. Most teams run plays they are good at over and over throughout the game. Guess why Notre Dame has certain players in formations...Because that grouping has been successful at executing the plays in practice. Why would you run a play with personnel that cannot execute it? The answer is you wouldn't...so of course their will be tendencies with personnel groupings, and a good coach will pick up on that and try to exploit it. It happens every game in college football.

 

[Cackalacky]

Below is the link to the article where the Purdue CB says he knew what we were going to run.

http://www.jconline.com/article/201...150014/Purdue-football-Boilermakers-Rob-Henry

"We played that game twice.." jeezus.

 

[ickythump1225]

The second half Notre Dame switched up some of their looks at the line of scrimmage. The screen to Daniels that went for ten yards at the beginning of the half had both TJ, and him lined up on the same side. This isn't how it was run in the first half, and it was typically a "blocking" receiver lined up next to whoever was going to receive the screen.

This staff believes we will win with groupings that are conducive to down and distance. This is predicated on the fact that if the play is executed properly it shouldn't matter if the defense knows. This is what many teams around the country do every week. You don't think that after watching tape Kelly and Co didn't pick up on tendencies that Purdue had? The fact is that Purdue was executing better than we were in the first half, period!

This whole "we need to be more diverse on offense" is a load of crap imo. Most teams run plays they are good at over and over throughout the game. Guess why Notre Dame has certain players in formations...Because that grouping has been successful at executing the plays in practice. Why would you run a play with personnel that cannot execute it? The answer is you wouldn't...so of course their will be tendencies with personnel groupings, and a good coach will pick up on that and try to exploit it. It happens every game in college football.

Shoot Chip Kelly has made his career running the same plays over and over again. The Oregon offense is VERY simple. Hell they even announce to the defense what they're going to run and to what side they're running the play to before the ball is snapped. It's all about execution.

 

[ickythump1225]

"We played that game twice.." jeezus.

And they still lost. Maybe they should have played it three times.

 

[Cackalacky]

And they still lost. Maybe they should have played it three times.

There is absolute nothing funny about that at all. Its a shame.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Shoot Chip Kelly has made his career running the same plays over and over again. The Oregon offense is VERY simple. Hell they even announce to the defense what they're going to run and to what side they're running the play to before the ball is snapped. It's all about execution.

I mentioned this in an earlier post. His offense, as Gruden put it, is in fact very simple. Each play is lined up in similar fashion, but the key is for the QB to quickly make the right read. IIRC, the example he used was a set where there was 2 WRs out wide on the right, 1 out wide on the left, and a RB. It was up to Vick to read where the defense lined up and pick the most favorable option: 3 different passing options, one hand off, or keep it. That same play can be ran multiple times and have a different outcome every single time. This is mainly why they can go so fast and why it's so easy to pick up. As stated earlier, I'm not an expert, but this seems like a no-brainer to me when you have multiple athletes on offense and QB who is good at reading defenses. Tommy takes too long at times, but he understands the game. I'd really like to see a few series where they give it a shot.

If our defense isn't going to stop anyone, might as well put up 60 points each game!...only half kidding.

 

[BillyIrish]

Watching the game for the first time now... Just missed the 4down attempt midway thru the 2nd. To this point I haven't had much of an issue with play calling as much as execution. 3-4 drops, jones fielding that punt at the 4. Tommy has been late a couple of times as well. To me it appears the WR screens are built in on run plays based on "numbers". Carlisle has been motioned into the backfield twice from an empty set.

Just hit Brown on a double move up the sideline for 40

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Watching the game for the first time now... Just missed the 4down attempt midway thru the 2nd. To this point I haven't had much of an issue with play calling as much as execution. 3-4 drops, jones fielding that punt at the 4. Tommy has been late a couple of times as well. To me it appears the WR screens are built in on run plays based on "numbers". Carlisle has been motioned into the backfield twice from an empty set.

Packaged plays are very hot right now. This is one reason why it's hard for us to criticize play-calling; tough to tell the difference between plays called by Martin and line calls made by Rees.

 

[ickythump1225]

There is absolute nothing funny about that at all. Its a shame.

Just because a player on the losing side says something doesn't make it so. I mean seriously if they knew our playcalling so well why did they still lose? We out executed them when it matters, that's why. I'm willing to bet most teams that play Bama year in and year out know what they're going to run but they can't stop them. Hell we knew when they were going to run in the title game, it's not about "knowing" what's being called it's about being able to stop it. In this day and age with such excellent scouting reports and game film it's very hard to surprise anyone anymore. There's no super secret playbook out there.

 

[Cackalacky]

Just because a player on the losing side says something doesn't make it so. I mean seriously if they knew our playcalling so well why did they still lose? We out executed them when it matters, that's why. I'm willing to bet most teams that play Bama year in and year out know what they're going to run but they can't stop them. Hell we knew when they were going to run in the title game, it's not about "knowing" what's being called it's about being able to stop it. In this day and age with such excellent scouting reports and game film it's very hard to surprise anyone anymore. There's no super secret playbook out there.

I don't disagree with you. One of my biggest complaint and fear is telegraphing our plays based on personnel. This guy is not the only person to say this either. Numerous posters on here can call the play based on on personnel. If we can do it so can a DC. Regardless of execution, its just handing an advantage to your opponent if we don't hide our tendencies.

 

[ickythump1225]

I don't disagree with you. One of my biggest complaint and fear is telegraphing our plays based on personnel. This guy is not the only person to say this either. Numerous posters on here can call the play based on on personnel. If we can do it so can a DC. Regardless of execution, its just handing an advantage to your opponent if we don't hide our tendencies.

Well just because we're calling the same play doesn't necessarily mean that the outcome of the play is going to be the same. We can run a play 5 straight times and have a different player touch the ball all 5 times. If it's an option play Rees can either hand the ball off, or option into a pass thus giving him the ability to throw to whoever is open. The thing is we don't necessarily know if those failed screens were designed screens or Tommy optioning into screen plays or perhaps audibling into a screen at the line. The problem isn't necessarily on the coaches (it may be though) it could just be on Tommy not making better choices.

Everyone's so quick to blame our coaches for everything but I mean come on they took us to the MNCG last year. Cut them some slack. We overachieved last year and this year we're still ironing out some wrinkles. Stuff we're working on right now in week 3 could pay big dividends at the end of the season. I don't think we're firing on all cylinders yet and I think we'll get better as the season goes on. We didn't look very good last year at the start of the year either but we were fortunate to win all of our games while we worked things out.

Have some confidence in Kelly and Co. guys. BK didn't just fall out of the sky into South Bend he worked damned hard to get here and he obviously knows what he's doing. The list of coaches I'd rather have over BK is very small.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Everyone needs to relax and eat some fruit. This team will figure it out, give it time

 

[Booslum31]

Well just because we're calling the same play doesn't necessarily mean that the outcome of the play is going to be the same. We can run a play 5 straight times and have a different player touch the ball all 5 times. If it's an option play Rees can either hand the ball off, or option into a pass thus giving him the ability to throw to whoever is open. The thing is we don't necessarily know if those failed screens were designed screens or Tommy optioning into screen plays or perhaps audibling into a screen at the line. The problem isn't necessarily on the coaches (it may be though) it could just be on Tommy not making better choices.

Everyone's so quick to blame our coaches for everything but I mean come on they took us to the MNCG last year. Cut them some slack. We overachieved last year and this year we're still ironing out some wrinkles. Stuff we're working on right now in week 3 could pay big dividends at the end of the season. I don't think we're firing on all cylinders yet and I think we'll get better as the season goes on. We didn't look very good last year at the start of the year either but we were fortunate to win all of our games while we worked things out.

Have some confidence in Kelly and Co. guys. BK didn't just fall out of the sky into South Bend he worked damned hard to get here and he obviously knows what he's doing. The list of coaches I'd rather have over BK is very small.

I kind of agree with this, however, a play works when more of your individual guys BEAT their man than the other team's individual guy beats you. Simply put, every play could get serious yardage if everyone beats their man. Watching Bama's line dominate the A&M defense is what I'm talking about. Our O-Line is not dominating...we are not getting enough push up front. They haven't been bad on passing plays but on the majority of running plays they are not beating their man. Is this the coaches fault?

 

[Kanye West]

The Screen play is just going to kill me. When we run, we continue to run if it doesn't work, or if it does work we don't. We need a good balance, and now that Rees is a threat to throw deep have consistent changes. I hate having 5 wideouts, as it doesn't add an element of deception.

 

[kmoose]

The Screen play is just going to kill me. When we run, we continue to run if it doesn't work, or if it does work we don't. We need a good balance, and now that Rees is a threat to throw deep have consistent changes. I hate having 5 wideouts, as it doesn't add an element of deception.

If you win your individual battles, you don't need deception. The one thing that I keep hoping, is that Kelly and Co. have some plays that they intend to use against the tougher teams on the schedule, that will be run out of the same formations that everyone is complaining about now. Rope-a-dope style. Keep showing the WR screen, and then when you need a score against Stanford(and every blind man in the world can read screen) fake the screen and throw the fly pattern down the sideline. Or fake the screen and throw the post to the backside receiver.

 

[irishfan]

This whole game I was waiting for us to pump on one of those screen and hit Niklas or Smith down the sideline (we did this to Eifert for a TD against Wake in 2011--side note the entire Purdue game reminded me of that Wake game for some reason), but hopefully its something they're saving. I mean Purdue was playing our WRs so tight the whole game, I was surprised we didn't open it up more. I remember us going deep 3 times (Daniels TD, Brown catch, Robinson PI) and I just wish we did it more to give our run game and screen game a real chance.

 

[kmoose]

I just wish we did it more to give our run game and screen game a real chance.

We're averaging 4.1 yards per carry, and 125 yards a game, as a team, through 3 games. We're not setting the world on fire, but it's plenty respectable. We have been able to run the ball effectively.

 

[Wild Bill]

If you win your individual battles, you don't need deception. The one thing that I keep hoping, is that Kelly and Co. have some plays that they intend to use against the tougher teams on the schedule, that will be run out of the same formations that everyone is complaining about now. Rope-a-dope style. Keep showing the WR screen, and then when you need a score against Stanford(and every blind man in the world can read screen) fake the screen and throw the fly pattern down the sideline. Or fake the screen and throw the post to the backside receiver.

No reason to hold back. If corners are jumping routes, you have to make them pay immediately. Just like you said, deception isn't necessary if you win individual battles. DD and TJ have already shown they can win individual battles consistently.

 

[Kanye West]

If you win your individual battles, you don't need deception. The one thing that I keep hoping, is that Kelly and Co. have some plays that they intend to use against the tougher teams on the schedule, that will be run out of the same formations that everyone is complaining about now. Rope-a-dope style. Keep showing the WR screen, and then when you need a score against Stanford(and every blind man in the world can read screen) fake the screen and throw the fly pattern down the sideline. Or fake the screen and throw the post to the backside receiver.

The Screen is supposed to be a deception play like the Draw, but when used to much it does not work. I want to see more middle-range passes and not hot-read passes, which Rees still occasionally forces.

 

[Irishman77]

Two questions:
1. How is Martin to blame when Rees checks out of his play every time?
2. How is Martin still are OC if our backup Qb has to check out of his call every play?

 

[stlnd01]

Two questions:
1. How is Martin to blame when Rees checks out of his play every time?
2. How does Martin still are OC if our backup Qb has to check out of his call every play?

I'll go out on a limb and wager that Tommy's not going rogue (or going Brett Favre) and checking out of plays repeatedly just because he likes to fling the rock. There's a set progression of checkdowns based on the defense and the personnel on the field, and that's established by the OC. The QB has some discretion, but ultimately they're both to blame (or thank, depending on outcome).
Though - and it feels like this bears repeating in every conversation this season - the offense is really not the problem here.

 

[IrishLax]

Two questions:
1. How is Martin to blame when Rees checks out of his play every time?
2. How is Martin still are OC if our backup Qb has to check out of his call every play?

1. Because Rees doesn't, most of the time he "checks" is just adjusting protection or which way the run is going. He maybe checks out of 20-30% of plays. And those are likely predetermined checks programmed by the coaches... sooooo....
2. I don't know what this means.

 

[Irishman77]

1. Because Rees doesn't, most of the time he "checks" is just adjusting protection or which way the run is going. He maybe checks out of 20-30% of plays. And those are likely predetermined checks programmed by the coaches... sooooo....
2. I don't know what this means.

Yeah reading my post is confusing. I was being ironical.

Call a play and execute. Run some no huddle and wear the other team down. When they are wore out it is easier to execute.

 

[anarin]

The way I look at it, we're 2-1 and the one loss was on the defense. I don't see a thread "Bob Diaco has no idea what he is doing" yet....

keyword "yet"