Preseason Top 25 Polls

[NDWorld247]

There was nothing sarcastic about my post. That story is 100% true.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The Top 12 Most Consistently Overrated College Football Programs Of The BCS Era, Statistically | College Spun – Social. Local. Consumable. College Sports.

Feel free to pick it apart, but I remember this article floating around on here months ago. You would think we would be on the list (as the article notes), but we aren't.

Interesting and thank you for posting. Here's where I think it falls apart for us...

>>The scoring is rather simple. If your school started the season ranked No. 1 and finished No. 14, it would lose 13 points. Since only 25 teams are ranked at any given time, all teams unranked were assumed as No. 26. So, if a given squad started the season ranked No. 3 and finished out of the poll, it would lose 23 points. The points for each school were added up and divided by 15 to obtain an average +/- per season. Would it be better if every team was ranked throughout the season and we had a cleaner set of numbers? Of course. But when you’re just looking for the top 12 most overrated programs in the BCS era, this method does the job.<<

We haven't always been top 5, but we've often been hyped or ranked an fallen out of the rankings (i.e., #26). Not sure that this particular measure fully tells the story. Again, I love this team. I just think we've been overhyped for many years.

 

[ulukinatme]

There was nothing sarcastic about my post. That story is 100% true.

Wow, serial? Never heard that

 

[NDWorld247]

Wow, serial? Never heard that

100% serious. I don't think it's something Ingram went around telling people about.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Interesting and thank you for posting. Here's where I think it falls apart for us...

>>The scoring is rather simple. If your school started the season ranked No. 1 and finished No. 14, it would lose 13 points. Since only 25 teams are ranked at any given time, all teams unranked were assumed as No. 26. So, if a given squad started the season ranked No. 3 and finished out of the poll, it would lose 23 points. The points for each school were added up and divided by 15 to obtain an average +/- per season. Would it be better if every team was ranked throughout the season and we had a cleaner set of numbers? Of course. But when you’re just looking for the top 12 most overrated programs in the BCS era, this method does the job.<<

We haven't always been top 5, but we've often been hyped or ranked an fallen out of the rankings (i.e., #26). Not sure that this particular measure fully tells the story. Again, I love this team. I just think we've been overhyped for many years.

I actually agree with you that we are either traditionally overhyped, or we deserve the hype but never live up to the potential. I just remembered this article back in April and thought it relevant.

I'd like to see a more statistic-heavy approach taken, but can't seem to find anything. I can't even imagine how you would do one.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I actually agree with you that we are either traditionally overhyped, or we deserve the hype but never live up to the potential. I just remembered this article back in April and thought it relevant.

I'd like to see a more statistic-heavy approach taken, but can't seem to find anything. I can't even imagine how you would do one.

The eye test for me shows Oklahoma and Fla State always overhyped. Or undercoached. Or both.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I actually agree with you that we are either traditionally overhyped, or we deserve the hype but never live up to the potential. I just remembered this article back in April and thought it relevant.

I'd like to see a more statistic-heavy approach taken, but can't seem to find anything. I can't even imagine how you would do one.

If you find something, let me know. I'm not interested enough to search.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

100% serious. I don't think it's something Ingram went around telling people about.

Link or it didn't happen....

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That was the article that I referred to yesterday. When we looked at it when it first came out, ND's biggest failings were years it was ranked just inside the top twenty or 25 and fell way out. So it didn't hurt as much in this schedule, and a number of years ND was unranked and ended just inside the rankings.

 

[RDU Irish]

We were only preseason Top 25 in 7 of the last fifteen years. We sucked and it was no secret. Other than 2006 when we were preseason #2 and finished #17 there were not many chances for losing tons of points. Then we go and start 2012 unranked and finish #4 which makes up for a lot.

1998 - PS #22 finish #22
1999 - PS #18 finish NR
2001 - PS #18 finish NR
2002 - PS NR finish #17 (three points preseason)
2003 - PS #20 finish NR
2006 - PS #2 finish #17
2009 - PS #23 finish NR
2011 PS #16 finish NR
2012 PS NR finish #4 (83 points preseason

Using the formula provided I get an average score of -1.20 = (0-8-8+9-6-15-2-10+22)/15'

Drop 2012 from the stats and we were at -2.86 which is good enough for #7 on that list.

What is misleading is that we underperform 6 of the 7 times we are preseason ranked, dropping from rankings 5 of those times. Then look back to the Faust years and see why old timers might be a little predisposed to feeling ND is overrated (with a dose of 1997 and 1994 to boot).


Notre Dame Preseason AP Rankings - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football and Basketball Polls and Rankings

 

[RDU Irish]

Ill say #9. Our defense and the shiny gold Helmet keeps us inside top 10.


Preseason polls, vital to where a team is going 60% of the time, everytime.

When Travis Thomas is one of your top three players on the cover of SI you really have to know you are overrated. Undersized LB looks especially small next to your jacked up QB. We were all offense, no defense. That ranking made no sense on so many levels, somewhere around #10 maybe but sheesh that Kool Aid was more of an epidemic.

 

[Black Irish]

Does any else think Stanford is coming in too high in these polls? I know they surprised a lot of people last season and should be good this year. But they're being placed in the top 5 in every poll I've seen. That seems a bit much; I think pollsters are overcorrecting too hard with The Cardinal.

 

[irishog77]

Does any else think Stanford is coming in too high in these polls? I know they surprised a lot of people last season and should be good this year. But they're being placed in the top 5 in every poll I've seen. That seems a bit much; I think pollsters are overcorrecting too hard with The Cardinal.

Yeah, perhaps. But until Stanford quits playing physical, fundamentally sound football, then I think they're a threat to win 9-11 games each year. Talent-wise, they may not be a top-5 team, but they play so well as a team that I don't think it's too far fetched to see them hovering around the top 5 all year.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Be interesting to see if the Cards slide like ND did, only from the offensive side of the ball, losing a rash of games by one to three points in overtime.

 

[Black Irish]

Yeah, perhaps. But until Stanford quits playing physical, fundamentally sound football, then I think they're a threat to win 9-11 games each year. Talent-wise, they may not be a top-5 team, but they play so well as a team that I don't think it's too far fetched to see them hovering around the top 5 all year.

I know I'm wearing the shamrock glasses, but I believe much the same could be said for the Irish. Last year's game versus Stanford was like watching the Irish play themselves.

 

[irishog77]

I know I'm wearing the shamrock glasses, but I believe much the same could be said for the Irish. Last year's game versus Stanford was like watching the Irish play themselves.

Absolutely. And I think BK has this team rolling as a perennial bcs-type of team.

I think Stanford is ranked where they are (and ahead of ND) because they've been doing it for several years in a row now-- transitioning through the loss of an all-world QB and coach. ND loses points this year because of the loss of EG for sure. If ND has another great year this year and next, then we'll probably start seeing them higher in preseason polls...getting the benefit of the doubt, so to speak, that a team like Stanford is getting now (and probably deservedly so).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

We were only preseason Top 25 in 7 of the last fifteen years. We sucked and it was no secret. Other than 2006 when we were preseason #2 and finished #17 there were not many chances for losing tons of points. Then we go and start 2012 unranked and finish #4 which makes up for a lot.

1998 - PS #22 finish #22
1999 - PS #18 finish NR
2001 - PS #18 finish NR
2002 - PS NR finish #17 (three points preseason)
2003 - PS #20 finish NR
2006 - PS #2 finish #17
2009 - PS #23 finish NR
2011 PS #16 finish NR
2012 PS NR finish #4 (83 points preseason

Using the formula provided I get an average score of -1.20 = (0-8-8+9-6-15-2-10+22)/15'

Drop 2012 from the stats and we were at -2.86 which is good enough for #7 on that list.

What is misleading is that we underperform 6 of the 7 times we are preseason ranked, dropping from rankings 5 of those times. Then look back to the Faust years and see why old timers might be a little predisposed to feeling ND is overrated (with a dose of 1997 and 1994 to boot).


Notre Dame Preseason AP Rankings - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football and Basketball Polls and Rankings

I understand the point you are trying to make but it is apples to apples. As far as an old time perspective, we haven't had a coach in control, with an admin behind him, and a sense of integrity and purpose since Devine. Holtz, whatever you say was sold down the river in his final years. Everyone since him up to Kelly has been a clown; one way or another.

Go back and look at the years before the BCS, but these other schools suffered huge losses too! People almost committed suicide over our two (out of three) wins over Texas in the seventies, before that it was 'Bama and Ok we knocked off. All I was saying is sometimes you come out ahead, and some times you don't, but ND hasn't been as bad in recent years as most iconic teams.

 

[chubler]

Absolutely. And I think BK has this team rolling as a perennial bcs-type of team.

I think Stanford is ranked where they are (and ahead of ND) because they've been doing it for several years in a row now-- transitioning through the loss of an all-world QB and coach. ND loses points this year because of the loss of EG for sure. If ND has another great year this year and next, then we'll probably start seeing them higher in preseason polls...getting the benefit of the doubt, so to speak, that a team like Stanford is getting now (and probably deservedly so).

I agree with your rationale as to why Stanford is being ranked so high by the pollsters, but I'd also like to point out that there's a pretty decent chance Stanford lives up to their rating this year. First and foremost, they return their entire OL minus last year's center, and last year was actually one of the worse Stanford Olines in recent history. Against most teams they'll be able to make up for the loss of production from the 2 departed TE's simply by running the ball down their throats. Add in a dynamic dual-threat QB and literally the entire defense except for Chase Thomas (who was admittedly good) and Stanford is looking very, very good this year. With that in mind, I'd argue that Stanford is the team with the least questions to answer about their ranking outside of Tuscaloosa.

 

[irishog77]

I agree with your rationale as to why Stanford is being ranked so high by the pollsters, but I'd also like to point out that there's a pretty decent chance Stanford lives up to their rating this year. First and foremost, they return their entire OL minus last year's center, and last year was actually one of the worse Stanford Olines in recent history. Against most teams they'll be able to make up for the loss of production from the 2 departed TE's simply by running the ball down their throats. Add in a dynamic dual-threat QB and literally the entire defense except for Chase Thomas (who was admittedly good) and Stanford is looking very, very good this year. With that in mind, I'd argue that Stanford is the team with the least questions to answer about their ranking outside of Tuscaloosa.

Yeah, I think Stanford will actually be good. I don't merely think they'll be ranked high. They'll be ranked high and good.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

The Ja Rule 25: A track-by-track guide to preseason college football rankings

• No. 14 Notre Dame: Ja Rule “Holla Holla” (1999) / Ja Rule feat. JAY Z, Vita, Caddillac Tah, Memphis Bleek & Busta Rhymes “Holla Holla (Remix)” (1999)

Just going to leave this right here from the Complex interview:

“I got that beat in the ninth inning and I created what I call my stutter flow. That’s when you got the doubling up on the verses with the lyrics. It was catchy, it was creative and it became my lead single. Sometimes God works in mysterious ways. Sometimes he’s not there when you call, but he’s always on time.”

So God is a Notre Dame fan and a Ja Rule fan. Makes sense.

 

[philipm31]

I lived in Minnesota for a decade. Kansas is damn balmy.

I lived in Poland for four years (first winter was -25 degrees Celsius below), so I don't really think either place is particularly that cold.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

This is not a poll but i think ND does not exist for Kirk Herbstreit.

Which players will earn a preseason Herbie Award? - ESPN

Zero nominees from ND with more than 100 names and zero players in his All-team

 

[ulukinatme]

This is not a poll but i think ND does not exist for Kirk Herbstreit.

Which players will earn a preseason Herbie Award? - ESPN

Zero nominees from ND with more than 100 names and zero players in his All-team

Herbie Derp. Granted, some players show up more than once in some of the votes there (Brax Miller, Tajh Boyd, etc), but not one player made it in the cut? Bit silly when you consider Tuitt and Nix are projected first round. At first I thought he just left Independent teams out for some reason, but sure enough BYU shows up.

 

[dublinirish]

This is not a poll but i think ND does not exist for Kirk Herbstreit.

Which players will earn a preseason Herbie Award? - ESPN

Zero nominees from ND with more than 100 names and zero players in his All-team

Laughable selections alright, snubbing Manziel does earn him back 1 cool point though

 

[ThePiombino]

This is not a poll but i think ND does not exist for Kirk Herbstreit.

Which players will earn a preseason Herbie Award? - ESPN

Zero nominees from ND with more than 100 names and zero players in his All-team

Everytime I decide to give him another chance and try not to lump him into the talentless abyss that is ESPN, he goes and does something like this. Come on, man! How cab you snub Tuitt AND Nix?!

 

[stlnd01]

This is not a poll but i think ND does not exist for Kirk Herbstreit.

Which players will earn a preseason Herbie Award? - ESPN

Zero nominees from ND with more than 100 names and zero players in his All-team

Yeah. I like Herbstreit, and not one to cry about bias, but that was so weird as to seem intentional.
Would think at least one of Tuitt/Nix would be on any All-American team. Shembo would be a "smart" pick for best pass rusher. Top five defense for sure. How is Stanford's front seven more "foxhole" than ours? Bryant or Jaylon for "fresh face." Atkinson as ankle-breaker? Something to vote for? A bone?

 

[philipm31]

That all leads back to the Bama game and the lingering perception that ND was a fluke and overrated, no matter how talented some individuals are. I prefer to be underrated, anyway.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Herbstreit just did his pre-season Herbie Awards coincidentally with ESPN doing their Howard/ Corso/ Herbstreit pre-season show. Essentially zero mention of Notre Dame [even to not mentioning Nix for all-defensive tackles] except for NCG mentions and [negative] film clips.

Although Howard and Corso are difficult to pry anything good about Notre Dame out of, Herbstreit is usually fair. So this gives me one further reason to believe what I have believed the entirety of last year: we have not proved anything to the national college football establishment yet.

So, we're still doubted, seriously doubted, and thereby discounted. That's good, as long as we see it that way and don't get p!ssed off. We will be hungrier and just the right amount of angry.

The commentary-momentum is really talking up Stanford as practically unbeatable, USC as ready to regroup and kick major butt, Michigan {weirdly} to be real good, Michigan State to be at least as good, Arizona State's QB to be one of the elites, and Oklahoma to be one of four equals battling for the BIG-12. There are people out there thinking 6-6 as reasonable for Notre Dame.

So, we must show "them" again. And, if we do, I predict that we will have to show them for two more years that we are in fact permanently back.

For emotional sanity's sake, we all should either stop listening to the national commentators or listen to them with the secret smile of an assassin sneaking up on an unaware ignoramus.

 

[ARALOU]

I got into a conversation with a Ga.fan awhile back. He talked about how ND got drilled by Bama and didnt belong in the game or NC conversation. I asked him if it was because of the final score or how ND just got gashed for 4 TDs pretty quickly or did they just not seem to be able to do too much on either side of the ball. He said a little bit of all that. They just got hammered and didnt belong on the field. I then said so you think Ga. was maybe the second best team or A & M maybe? He said it wasn't ND they got their *** handed to them. I then said, like South Carolina handed Ga. their ***? He didnt say much after that. I went to make the point that certain games a certain team can make another look bad even if they aren't a bad team. He had no choice but to agree.