Johnny Football

[Irish Insanity]

Up until this whole situation came to light, with minimal thought about it, I was in favor of paying in some manor or another (monthly allotment) players. But with all the arguments both on here and thru the media lately, I've decided I'm against it. Theses players get a fully paid education, a place to live, food (most eat better than us), pretty much any clothing item thats associated with their school, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some. Had the school not given them the full ride or the stage to show their talent, their signature wouldn't be worth **** and most likely wouldn't further their education beyond HS which when utilized can lead to a better future for them. The price of their tuition, plus food, plus living expenses, and clothing alone far exceeds what any working college student makes. I'm sure most would agree to keep what they already get as opposed to be paid and be responsible for all of that themselves.

 

[kmoose]

Up until this whole situation came to light, with minimal thought about it, I was in favor of paying in some manor or another (monthly allotment) players. But with all the arguments both on here and thru the media lately, I've decided I'm against it. Theses players get a fully paid education, a place to live, food (most eat better than us), pretty much any clothing item thats associated with their school, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some. Had the school not given them the full ride or the stage to show their talent, their signature wouldn't be worth **** and most likely wouldn't further their education beyond HS which when utilized can lead to a better future for them. The price of their tuition, plus food, plus living expenses, and clothing alone far exceeds what any working college student makes. I'm sure most would agree to keep what they already get as opposed to be paid and be responsible for all of that themselves.

You don't expect them to give up their scholarships, just because they are getting paid? The Horror!

 

[Ndaccountant]

Up until this whole situation came to light, with minimal thought about it, I was in favor of paying in some manor or another (monthly allotment) players. But with all the arguments both on here and thru the media lately, I've decided I'm against it. Theses players get a fully paid education, a place to live, food (most eat better than us), pretty much any clothing item thats associated with their school, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some. Had the school not given them the full ride or the stage to show their talent, their signature wouldn't be worth **** and most likely wouldn't further their education beyond HS which when utilized can lead to a better future for them. The price of their tuition, plus food, plus living expenses, and clothing alone far exceeds what any working college student makes. I'm sure most would agree to keep what they already get as opposed to be paid and be responsible for all of that themselves.

I am with you.

Do you think Herbie gets the gig on college game day without playing college sports? Is Jay Bilas where he is today if he didn't play ball at Duke?

I think what gets lost in this whole discussion is what opportunities exist for the players once they graduate. How many times do we hear about player X getting an insurance gig somewhere or owning multiple car dealerships? These types of benefits occur only because of what happens in college athletics.

 

[PLACforever]

Go ahead and let players profit from their autographs, but then also make those players pay their own tuition.


Incoming Players Choice:

1. Be on scholarship and not be able to make any profits from autographs

2. Make all the $$$ you can by marketing yourself*, but you wont have a scholarship.


*anything that the student profits from that has the universities property on it (such as a signed pic of the player in a game, wearing a uni; or a pic of the player sitting on a park bench with a University Hat on, etc), the student will need to pay the university a cut of that profit.

Nice idea, but what happens when tuition is due and your Heisman front runner QB/RB says he cant pay? Kicked out of school?

 

[ACamp1900]

Nice idea, but what happens when tuition is due and your Heisman front runner QB/RB says he cant pay? Kicked out of school?

The boosters line up at the door....

 

[phork]

I get the whole scholarship thing. However you cannot sit there and tell a kid that you cannot profit off of his own image and then turn around and do it yourself. If you aren't going to provide a stipend to these kids then let them sign balls or whatever for money.

And while you are at it, tell them to tell the non-revenue generating sports to buck up or **** off. I am so sick of this Title9 BS. Football allows athletic depts to stay above water, the other sports, with the exception of basketball, drag budgets down into the depths.

I am sorry, if you are selling an A&M #2 jersey, it ain't because of Frederick Knockblocker from 1899.

 

[BGIF]

I get the whole scholarship thing. However you cannot sit there and tell a kid that you cannot profit off of his own image and then turn around and do it yourself. If you aren't going to provide a stipend to these kids then let them sign balls or whatever for money.

And while you are at it, tell them to tell the non-revenue generating sports to buck up or **** off. I am so sick of this Title9 BS. Football allows athletic depts to stay above water, the other sports, with the exception of basketball, drag budgets down into the depths.

I am sorry, if you are selling an A&M #2 jersey, it ain't because of Frederick Knockblocker from 1899.

Knockblocker didn't wear a numbered jersey. Washington & Jefferson wore the first numbered football jersery's in 1908. The following week a buckeye swapped a W&J jersey for a tattoo.


As an Aggie, Knockblocker got his money like most players did through their history, via a booster handshake. Aggie boosters were pissed that they didn't think of cash for jerseys.

 

[koonja]

One of my old roommates was a D1, full scholarship athlete. He came from a household that had a combined income of around 50K per year.

The amount of money/benefits the NCAA gave him was unreal, and he openly admits that it's already incredible and they don't need anymore.

He also doesn't spend ~$10,000 annually on tattoos, either, though.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[NDinFL]

I get the whole scholarship thing. However you cannot sit there and tell a kid that you cannot profit off of his own image and then turn around and do it yourself. If you aren't going to provide a stipend to these kids then let them sign balls or whatever for money.

And while you are at it, tell them to tell the non-revenue generating sports to buck up or **** off. I am so sick of this Title9 BS. Football allows athletic depts to stay above water, the other sports, with the exception of basketball, drag budgets down into the depths.

I am sorry, if you are selling an A&M #2 jersey, it ain't because of Frederick Knockblocker from 1899.

1. Do you? Do you know how much a 4 year scholarship is worth?

2. I revert back to greyhammer's post on the last page: it's a slippery slope, I.E. it'll open a bidding war

3. Yeah and I'm sorry too, but ND didn't sell #3 jerseys because of Mike Floyd, did they? (Yet you still never saw Montana doing this kind of ****, now did you?)

 

[NDinFL]

I get the whole scholarship thing. However you cannot sit there and tell a kid that you cannot profit off of his own image and then turn around and do it yourself. If you aren't going to provide a stipend to these kids then let them sign balls or whatever for money.

And while you are at it, tell them to tell the non-revenue generating sports to buck up or **** off. I am so sick of this Title9 BS. Football allows athletic depts to stay above water, the other sports, with the exception of basketball, drag budgets down into the depths.

I am sorry, if you are selling an A&M #2 jersey, it ain't because of Frederick Knockblocker from 1899.

I suggest you read this (carefully)

What do you suggest the NCAA does then? Allow players to profit off their fame at this point? I know that sounds like the most logical thing in the world at first glance, trust me I really do, but it would lead to huge, huge, HUGE issues that would kill college football.

The problem is that people will abuse the system. "Oh hey five star recruit! I can't give you money to go to my school, but I can maybe pay you some money for an autograph? I sure wouldn't want to miss the next big thing at State U and since you'll be such a star for us... I think $5000 sounds about right. And if you promise to give me your cleats after your first game, I think I'd trade my Cadillac with you... Since you're going to be such a BIG star for my school... Right?"

Essentially it would make it impossible to police payments (because you'd have to question the "fairness of costs" of every single transaction, which would be a god damned nightmare). Thus creating a HUGE power shift where the team with the most wealthy and invested boosters would be able to buy recruits legally, or at the very least it would be ABSOLUTELY impossible for the NCAA to police. This would kill college athletics except for at places like Alabama, Notre Dame, Oregon, etc. where money is a non-issue.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Nothing is gonna happen to Manziel as far as the NCAA doing crap. The media is getting whipped in a frenzy, only for the NCAA to do little, to nothing about it. I was thinking of some of the recent BREAKING NEWS violations that turned out to no consequences for the "alleged" rule breaker.
Ohio State
Cam Newton
Oregon
Miami
Soon to be Manziel
Not to mention all the blind eyes to recruiting violations (looking at you Ole Miss, Clemson, pretty much all the SEC and you twat Mora)
So I guess what my thought process is dont start thinking crap will be done because the NCAA will continue their incompetence along with the media trying to make a big to do for nothin!

Umm Ohio State got hit.

 

[irish1958]

There are, presently, 85 scholarship players on a div 1college football team, and a varying number on all the other college teams.
Allowing one or two players to make as much money as they want or can while the overwhelming number get zero for their effort will not work. How much is the signed jersey of the third string right guard worth?
What good is a QB or RB if there is no blocking? With CW we saw how worthless an offense is if there is no defense.
The schools are spending an enormous amount of money supporting all college athletics. Take away their profit margin and you take away all college sports except for club teams and the like.
This wouldn't be all bad and would force the pro leagues to develop their own talent instead of getting a free ride in both football and basketball.

 

[FLDomer]

Umm Ohio State got hit.

Umm, slap on the wrist! weak sauce

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The problem with every solution, all of you have made fine cases, and have come up with innovate solutions, is that college football is a cesspool.

So it mirrors real life, the good and bad we all bring to the table. And what intensifies the problems resulting from this situation is desire. Several have mentioned it, including Grahambo. The public wants a piece of what college football has so bad. And no price paid seems too high.

Look at us, a bunch of guys sitting around devoting how much attention to a kids game? (Not that I would have it any other way!) So you have already knocked all the rules out of kilter. It isn't hard for those with too much money on hand to totally blow their personal ethics out the window. And with secretive bidding, not affecting all athletes equally, the value being promoted to each athlete varies widely. (2k cash doesn't mean much to someone that is going to be a doctor, and ain't hungry!)

For example, the debate over how much the actual compensation packages at colleges today are worth, is affected by the university attended, and the athletes determination to actually graduate! Because there is not enough gear in the world to equal the value of an ND degree earned.

So call me stupid, but the only way I can see to fix this college football conundrum, is to change the culture. Maybe if you move control away from the whorish promoters, and promote values that accent personal development, a degree will mean something and the majority of players will change their values! Nah, forget about it!

Because then you have to account, after all that, for the ones with mental issues, like someone who would blow being one of the greatest for a few thousand in cash, when his parents were loaded!

 

[Irish#1]

Per the radio this morning, there are three different companies and sessions involved. The one did say they liked JM and won't cooperate with the NCAA. The truth is they won't cooperate, because the value of their autographed items will plummet if the NCAA does something. Who wants items signed by a immature, self-indulged brat?

I also heard a clip of JM from a number of months back. To paraphrase, "I don't care. I'm a teenage college student and I'm going to have fun". This just tells me he cares about nothing but himself.

On the Cam Newton lawyer suggestion. The NCAA closed the loophole that allowed Newton to side step any punishment.

 

[Irish#1]

]You can't compare a sports superstar to us.[/B] It's not an apples to apples comparison. His signature is worth thousands; mine is worth nothing no matter what I do in my job.

Jay Bilas essentially won the O'Bannon case himself today on Twitter.

Sure you can. The only difference is the football games are on TV and our jobs aren't. There is nothing that says an athlete has to play sports and/or to make a living playing sports.

I am not against student athletes getting a monthly stipend, but they are already being compensated. For their services, they get a free education, along with room and board.

Right or wrong, what he did is currently against NCAA regulations, so payment for signing items is a no no.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[phork]

You didn't completely read my post. I said if they aren't willing to give them a stipend let them make their own. Yes Manziel is a top target for these, but who is A&Ms second or 3rd string? You guys are assuming that everyone would want every scholarship athletes autograph for huge sums. The fact is if you aren't a Heisman winner or projected 1st rounder, you are not going to make a lot.

ND football alone brought in $64M in revenue on 2009, spending roughly $29M on football. I don't know exactly what the money was spent on (IE Facilities, travel, Equipment). And its not like the university loses money when giving a "free" ride to a perspective athlete.

I just can't stand the hypocrisy of telling kids that they cannot profit off their hard work, but the school and the NCAA can. And you know what? Whoever brought up the idea that the school should take a cut of whatever they make had a brilliant idea and I would be all for that. The athlete/owner issue has been a long standing one. If it wasn't for the owner the players wouldn't have a venue, if it wasn't for the players the owners wouldn't have the fans.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The switching point for me is basically the stage/opportunity. Far more schools make the player than players make the school. Meaning the school you get to go to holds more potential value for your future than you do for theirs. Not as a whole, but percentage wise. There are a few exceptions I'm sure. Johnny Football would be nothing without a stage to showcase his talents on. But A&M would still exist without him. You have to pay to play, just like in about every aspect in life. And I mean the player has to pay to get the opportunity he is given. His performance and sacrificing financial gain from his own likeness while there is payment for his schooling and everything that includes. And an opportunity to cash in following completion of his Junior year if he chooses the NFL, or cashing in on a better job the University on your degree helped you get, if that route is chosen. These players wouldn't be what they are if they didn't have a stage to showcase it.

EDIT: But I would like to see the scholarships become four year offers, with behavioral and academic stipulations tied to it.

 

[Irish#1]

The switching point for me is basically the stage/opportunity. Far more schools make the player than players make the school. Meaning the school you get to go to holds more potential value for your future than you do for theirs. Not as a whole, but percentage wise. There are a few exceptions I'm sure. Johnny Football would be nothing without a stage to showcase his talents on. But A&M would still exist without him. You have to pay to play, just like in about every aspect in life. And I mean the player has to pay to get the opportunity he is given. His performance and sacrificing financial gain from his own likeness while there is payment for his schooling and everything that includes. And an opportunity to cash in following completion of his Junior year if he chooses the NFL, or cashing in on a better job the University on your degree helped you get, if that route is chosen. These players wouldn't be what they are if they didn't have a stage to showcase it.

EDIT: But I would like to see the scholarships become four year offers, with behavioral and academic stipulations tied to it.

Excellent point. A lot of people don't realize scholly's are a year to year contract and a coach can pull it for any reason. Put in the academic and citizenship clauses like you suggest and I wonder if some of these coaches would really go after some of these kids with questionable character?

 

[Fbolt]

And while you are at it, tell them to tell the non-revenue generating sports to buck up or **** off. I am so sick of this Title9 BS. Football allows athletic depts to stay above water, the other sports, with the exception of basketball, drag budgets down into the depths.

NR generating sports being eliminated would kill women's soccer, men's soccer, baseball, & women's bball. As a parent of a young girl and a fan, I'm not willing to give those up.

So call me stupid, but the only way...!

Stupid...?

weak sauce

 

[Circa]

douche bag
Noun
A small syringe for douching the vagina, esp. as a contraceptive measure.
A loathsome or contemptible person (used as a term of abuse).

Still.. to this day I think somebody had a heads-up on the Teo saga! Who would give a freshman this much power with just an 'Idea' of what college football stands for? and hand him the most coveted award only to see a whole Idea go down the drain with Mr. Johnny foot-up-all-our-throats!! The kid should be banned for life! If only to be able to keep the integrity of the Heisman alive!

 

[koonja]

Why does he have a longhorns tattoo on his side? Not to mention giving the longhorn 'horns'? What a tool.

 

[NDWorld247]

Still.. to this day I think somebody had a heads-up on the Teo saga! Who would give a freshman this much power with just an 'Idea' of what college football stands for? and hand him the most coveted award only to see a whole Idea go down the drain with Mr. Johnny foot-up-all-our-throats!! The kid should be banned for life! If only to be able to keep the integrity of the Heisman alive!

ESPN told them to. I think the Heisman has the most democratic system for determining the winner out of all of the awards, but in this case the electorate got it wrong and all of the other major awards got it right.

And he was a SOPHOMORE!!!

 

[ulukinatme]

Why does he have a longhorns tattoo on his side? Not to mention giving the longhorn 'horns'? What a tool.

I've heard it said on the Shag that he's actually a big Texas fan, but of course the legend goes that Mack only wanted him as a Safety.
Aggie fans refute that the Longhorns tattoo that's been Photoshopped into all of JFF's images by jealous UT fans

 

[Circa]

You didn't completely read my post. I said if they aren't willing to give them a stipend let them make their own. Yes Manziel is a top target for these, but who is A&Ms second or 3rd string? You guys are assuming that everyone would want every scholarship athletes autograph for huge sums. The fact is if you aren't a Heisman winner or projected 1st rounder, you are not going to make a lot.

ND football alone brought in $64M in revenue on 2009, spending roughly $29M on football. I don't know exactly what the money was spent on (IE Facilities, travel, Equipment). And its not like the university loses money when giving a "free" ride to a perspective athlete.

I just can't stand the hypocrisy of telling kids that they cannot profit off their hard work, but the school and the NCAA can. And you know what? Whoever brought up the idea that the school should take a cut of whatever they make had a brilliant idea and I would be all for that. The athlete/owner issue has been a long standing one. If it wasn't for the owner the players wouldn't have a venue, if it wasn't for the players the owners wouldn't have the fans.

I enjoy 'College football' because it is amateurs working their *** off trying to get better in order to get that pay-DAY! I personally have stopped watching the NFL because what you just explained is exactly what all the the arbitration was about 30 years ago! If you start paying college kids, where does it all stop? Maybe we could use government funding for football? That way we can breed football players and then we can all sit and watch the entertainment as we should.

 

[ulukinatme]

The kid should be banned for life! If only to be able to keep the integrity of the Heisman alive!

In all seriousness, I wouldn't put too much stock in the Heisman these days. The award has fallen from it's lofty perch, and this was long before JFF came along. At least every other award winner has been at the heart of a scandal going back to Reggie Bush, and it would probably be farther if you consider how journalism has changed just in recent years. The award is little more than a popularity contest these days, and Manti unfortunately wouldn't even have received an invite if his tragedy hadn't been played up so much by the media.

 

[NDPhilly]

That Longhorn tattoo looks like a Sharpie

 

[koonja]

That Longhorn tattoo looks like a Sharpie

I think it's just a poorly done tattoo. Clearly he didn't get it done in Ohio.