2013 Fall Camp Thread

[koonja]

Name a better group of #2's in the nation.

I don't study the roster of all NCAA teams, but of the twos he listed, there's not a difference maker.

You really think Alabama won't be putting a better second line out there than a guys who's barely seen the field as a senior, a freshman who hasn't finished a practice yet, and springman?

I don't have to have the correct answer to know the statement is a over the top (IMO). I think it's over the top is all.

If we had EV and jarron jones was ready to roll, I would say we're right up there.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Schwenke has "barely seen the field"?

 

[Wild Bill]

Name a better group of #2's in the nation.

I'd take my chances with bama's.

 

[koonja]

Schwenke has "barely seen the field"?

He didn't even log a snap in two games last year and had 5 season tackles and a sack.

 

[NDWorld247]

You really think Alabama won't be putting a better second line out there than a guys who's barely seen the field as a senior, a freshman who hasn't finished a practice yet, and springman?

I don't have to have the correct answer to know the statement is a over the top (IMO). I think it's over the top is all.

I'd take my chances with bama's.

I'd put the #2's OMM listed up against Alabama's #2's this year. Here they are. Look 'em up.

44 LaMichael Fanning 6-7, 270 So.
95 Darren Lake 6-3, 324 So.
54 Dalvin Tomlinson 6-2, 287 RFr.

I think people underrate Kona Schwenke and Tony Springmann. Both have been in the Nix/Tuitt shadow for the past two years. I would also take Rochell over any DL Alabama brought in last year.

 

[STLDomer]

Either Pagan or Dickson is a backup and one is a starter next to Stinson right? They are both good. Don't know anything about the other backups Bama has

 

[Irishman77]

I still think Elmer goes to guard to get the best 5 on the field. Stanley to LT in 14

 

[NDWorld247]

Either Pagan or Dickson is a backup and one is a starter next to Stinson right? They are both good. Don't know anything about the other backups Bama has

I guess Pagan and Stinson are the starting DE's with Ivory as the NT. Dickson is a "jack" linebacker.

 

[koonja]

I'd put the #2's OMM listed up against Alabama's #2's this year. Here they are. Look 'em up.

44 LaMichael Fanning 6-7, 270 So.
95 Darren Lake 6-3, 324 So.
54 Dalvin Tomlinson 6-2, 287 RFr.

I think people underrate Kona Schwenke and Tony Springmann. Both have been in the Nix/Tuitt shadow for the past two years. I would also take Rochell over any DL Alabama brought in last year.

The kool aid is strong with this one, .

Bama is just one example. I would also bet they have more a play makers in their second strong DL. If there were a way to measure second strong DL success, I'd wager all of my vbucks that bamas will be better.

But this isn't about bama, again, just one school. I don't see any reason to have 'as good as any in the nation' expectations for omms secondary dl.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'd put the #2's OMM listed up against Alabama's #2's this year. Here they are. Look 'em up.

44 LaMichael Fanning 6-7, 270 So.
95 Darren Lake 6-3, 324 So.
54 Dalvin Tomlinson 6-2, 287 RFr.

I think people underrate Kona Schwenke and Tony Springmann. Both have been in the Nix/Tuitt shadow for the past two years. I would also take Rochell over any DL Alabama brought in last year.

I think people assume that Bama's DL is such a strength because they're known for having a really stout front seven, but in reality it's their linebackers that are the real strength of the unit. Mix in some true shut down corners that you can leave on an island and you have a really effective front seven. Overall I'd say our total DL is better from the starters to the scrubs. But they have a better Defense because they reload on freak LB's and strong pass-protection corners like nobody's business. (Also I think that people hear about how nasty Bama's O-Line is and assume that strong in the trenches on one side of the ball mirrors the other.)

They've only had one First round Defensive line selection under Saban... it was Marcell Dareus in 2011. I tried to find the next one after that and had to stop at 1995 because I got bored.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'd put the #2's OMM listed up against Alabama's #2's this year. Here they are. Look 'em up.

44 LaMichael Fanning 6-7, 270 So.
95 Darren Lake 6-3, 324 So.
54 Dalvin Tomlinson 6-2, 287 RFr.

I think people underrate Kona Schwenke and Tony Springmann. Both have been in the Nix/Tuitt shadow for the past two years. I would also take Rochell over any DL Alabama brought in last year.

I can't speak to the convo about matching up our backups as I don't know much about Alabama's 2's. However our 2's this year should be very quality and I agree that Springmann and Schwenke would be starting on almost all other BCS programs that don't have two future 1st round picks in front of them (which isn't many). Now if I were to look at last years recruiting classes I think you could make a very easy argument that Jonathan Allen out VA is better than Rochelle. I like Rochelle a lot but Jonathan Allen at this stage might be a notch above Rochelle. With that said Allen might play OLB is Alabama's system at which point he wouldn't count as a DL.

 

[IrishLax]

With all this talk about depth... who are the players we all think ND can least afford to get hurt this year? Here is my top 5:

1. Zach Martin
2. Louis Nix
3. Stephon Tuitt
4. Chris Watt
5. Bennett Jackson

At every other position I really don't see a huge drop off from the starter to the "next man in." That's a really good sign compared to other years. S, LB, & RB especially you could have an outbreak of the plague and probably be OK. TJ Jones, Troy Niklas, and DaVaris Daniels you could also make a case for being on that list.

 

[Emcee77]

With all this talk about depth... who are the players we all think ND can least afford to get hurt this year? Here is my top 5:

1. Zach Martin
2. Louis Nix
3. Stephon Tuitt
4. Chris Watt
5. Bennett Jackson

At every other position I really don't see a huge drop off from the starter to the "next man in." That's a really good sign compared to other years. S, LB, & RB especially you could have an outbreak of the plague and probably be OK. TJ Jones, Troy Niklas, and DaVaris Daniels you could also make a case for being on that list.

Even ILB? I'll be worried if any two of Fox, Calabrese and Grace get hurt. Otherwise I totally agree.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'd have Louis Nix #1 and Stephon Tuitt #2 because their backups are good but nowhere near the level I expect them to play at this year.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'd put the #2's OMM listed up against Alabama's #2's this year. Here they are. Look 'em up.

44 LaMichael Fanning 6-7, 270 So.
95 Darren Lake 6-3, 324 So.
54 Dalvin Tomlinson 6-2, 287 RFr.

I think people underrate Kona Schwenke and Tony Springmann. Both have been in the Nix/Tuitt shadow for the past two years. I would also take Rochell over any DL Alabama brought in last year.

No problem with our guys.

I believe pettway is a 2nd stringer and rotates. He and and fanning are beasts. They have two five stars on the way, assuming Robinson isn't moved to offense.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

With all this talk about depth... who are the players we all think ND can least afford to get hurt this year? Here is my top 5:

1. Zach Martin
2. Louis Nix
3. Stephon Tuitt
4. Chris Watt
5. Bennett Jackson

At every other position I really don't see a huge drop off from the starter to the "next man in." That's a really good sign compared to other years. S, LB, & RB especially you could have an outbreak of the plague and probably be OK. TJ Jones, Troy Niklas, and DaVaris Daniels you could also make a case for being on that list.

1) Tommy Rees

The end.

 

[woolybug25]

He didn't even log a snap in two games last year and had 5 season tackles and a sack.

That's really just the devil's advocate of:

"He played a role in every game but two. This on one of the best defenses in the game. He even registered 5 tackles and a sack"

perspective

 

[IrishLax]

Even ILB? I'll be worried if any two of Fox, Calabrese and Grace get hurt. Otherwise I totally agree.

My thinking is that you'd have to lose all 3 of those guys for there to be a serious drop off. I really think Moore could fill in fine if you lost 2 guys... and even if you lost all 3, you could just play more nickel/4 man fronts/etc. where you only have 1 ILB on the field and you've got Danny Spond able to help as an OLB (or Jaylon Smith or Ben Councell). And then you've got freshman...

 

[koonja]

I don't see why some think kona and springman would start on most BCS teams.

We like them because they're our players, but there's nothing special about them if we're being honest. They're good backups, but even as that they're not elite backups you have to worry about if you're an offense.

I like them too and like I said they're better than average 2nd string DL, but to date there's nothing to get excited about IMO.

 

[Emcee77]

That's really just the devil's advocate of:

"He played a role in every game but two. This on one of the best defenses in the game. He even registered 5 tackles and a sack"

perspective

Right, no question that Schwenke played a key role last year. Also important to bear in mind that he played mostly nose guard, and most NG's contributions won't show up on the stat sheet. It's only real stars like Nix who make a statistical impact; most nose guards just tie up blockers for other guys to swoop in.

 

[IrishLax]

1) Tommy Rees

The end.

If we lost Tommy Rees we'd just use Hendrix and there'd be minimal drop off if that. The only scare would be if we were then afraid to run Hendrxi because we had only 2 QBs on the depth chart... at which point things might get a little hairy. Go watch what he did against a great Stanford defense as a RS frosh coming in as relief for Tommy after Tommy got pulled at halftime... Hendrix can flat out play. If he was the EE instead of Tommy in his class... man, it's interesting to think about.

 

[Emcee77]

My thinking is that you'd have to lose all 3 of those guys for there to be a serious drop off. I really think Moore could fill in fine if you lost 2 guys... and even if you lost all 3, you could just play more nickel/4 man fronts/etc. where you only have 1 ILB on the field and you've got Danny Spond able to help as an OLB (or Jaylon Smith or Ben Councell). And then you've got freshman...

Good points. We'd have options.

 

[Irishman77]

I don't see why some think kona and springman would start on most BCS teams.

We like them because they're our players, but there's nothing special about them if we're being honest. They're good backups, but even as that they're not elite backups you have to worry about if you're an offense.

I like them too and like I said they're better than average 2nd string DL, but to date there's nothing to get excited about IMO.

You might not feel that way about Springman in a month.

 

[NDWorld247]

The kool aid is strong with this one, .

Bama is just one example. I would also bet they have more a play makers in their second strong DL. If there were a way to measure second strong DL success, I'd wager all of my vbucks that bamas will be better.

But this isn't about bama, again, just one school. I don't see any reason to have 'as good as any in the nation' expectations for omms secondary dl.

So, you said you don't see how our #2s will be as good as any in the nation, but you can't list any in the nation that are better? You just assume Alabama's are better. I will say this, Alabama's #3s are MUCH better than our #3s, but we're not talking #3s!

I'm not saying our #2s are the best in the nation (I also don't know the depth chart of every DL in the country), but I've yet to see any that are better. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but try to back it up.

And, yes, the koolaid is strong because I see the talent in Schwenke and Springmann despite their designation as "backups" (behind two All Americans and future 1st round picks). Springmann is going to be a STUD for the next 3 years!

Now if I were to look at last years recruiting classes I think you could make a very easy argument that Jonathan Allen out VA is better than Rochelle. I like Rochelle a lot but Jonathan Allen at this stage might be a notch above Rochelle. With that said Allen might play OLB is Alabama's system at which point he wouldn't count as a DL.

Allen was listed as an OLB. If he were a DE, I'd agree with you.

 

[koonja]

You might not feel that way about Springman in a month.

I hope so!

Also hope jarron jones surprised everyone.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I don't see why some think kona and springman would start on most BCS teams.

We like them because they're our players, but there's nothing special about them if we're being honest. They're good backups, but even as that they're not elite backups you have to worry about if you're an offense.

I like them too and like I said they're better than average 2nd string DL, but to date there's nothing to get excited about IMO.

BCS conference teams or a BCS bowl team? Please clarify

 

[woolybug25]

If we lost Tommy Rees we'd just use Hendrix and there'd be minimal drop off if that. The only scare would be if we were then afraid to run Hendrxi because we had only 2 QBs on the depth chart... at which point things might get a little hairy. Go watch what he did against a great Stanford defense as a RS frosh coming in as relief for Tommy after Tommy got pulled at halftime... Hendrix can flat out play. If he was the EE instead of Tommy in his class... man, it's interesting to think about.

I don't know, call me crazy, but I think that there is a big difference in level of play between Tommy and Hendrix. Playing QB isn't just physical, the mental part is what kills them. I think the decision making, defence reading and leadership are all heavily weighted to Tommy. If Tommy goes out, we are going to have an unsure, tentative, mistake-prone guy come in. Regardless of whether that is Hendrix or anybody else.

I would have never imagined myself saying this, but.... Tommy is the only QB I trust on our roster.

 

[NDWorld247]

With all this talk about depth... who are the players we all think ND can least afford to get hurt this year? Here is my top 5:

1. Zach Martin
2. Louis Nix
3. Stephon Tuitt
4. Chris Watt
5. Bennett Jackson

At every other position I really don't see a huge drop off from the starter to the "next man in." That's a really good sign compared to other years. S, LB, & RB especially you could have an outbreak of the plague and probably be OK. TJ Jones, Troy Niklas, and DaVaris Daniels you could also make a case for being on that list.

I'd get worried if we starting losing CBs. I think we'd be in some trouble if we lost Jackson, but Wood could fill in admirably if we lost Russell. If we somehow lost Jackson and Russell, we'd be in a world of hurt.

 

[STLDomer]

Springmann is an absolute man child. I'd take him over most backup DEs in the country

 

[koonja]

So, you said you don't see how our #2s will be as good as any in the nation, but you can't list any in the nation that are better? You just assume Alabama's are better. I will say this, Alabama's #3s are MUCH better than our #3s, but we're not talking #3s!

I'm not saying our #2s are the best in the nation (I also don't know the depth chart of every DL in the country), but I've yet to see any that are better. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but try to back it up.

And, yes, the koolaid is strong because I see the talent in Schwenke and Springmann despite their designation as "backups" (behind two All Americans and future 1st round picks). Springmann is going to be a STUD for the next 3 years!



Allen was listed as an OLB. If he were a DE, I'd agree with you.

Like I said, just because I don't have the correct answer doesn't mean I know the statement isn't true. In most situations, just because you can't name a better doesn't mean it's not true.

When you wake up on the morning and get ready for work, do you look in the mirror and say 'well I'm going to be the best dressed man in the office because I certainly can't pinpoint who will be dressed better!'. Sure, if you have an amazing outfit on you could maybe make that statement and it may or may not be true... But when you're wearing nothing out of the ordinary, no reason to believe you will be the best dressed person, even though you can't name a better dressed man yet.

I know next to nothing about any other team's 2s, but I do know ours.

And based on ours, unless its an incredibly disappointing year for all second strong DL across the country, there's no way ours will be the best in the country. IMO.