'13 CA DT Eddie Vanderdoes (UCLA)

Status
Not open for further replies.

NOLAIrish

May Contain 10% Ethanol
Messages
344
Reaction score
107
Letting EV out of his LOI does not set a precedent. Future signees at ND, or any other school, could not use EV being let out of his LOI in an appeals case.

Sure it does. Just because a decision does not set a legal or administrative precedent doesn't mean it doesn't set any precedent whatsoever. Notre Dame, as does any major university, trades on its good name, including its reputation for the fair, even-handed treatment of students. Letting a student out of an LOI does set a precedent, and it's one that you can bet will be publicly re-examined the next time a student asks out. If that subsequent decision is out-of-line with the previous case, the school looks inconsistent, even spiteful. Sure, there's a point at which it makes sense to let students out of their LOI -- if their case is of a kind that you will always let similarly-situated future students out of their LOIs, then the precedent is not risky. But to get into the business of thin-slicing borderline cases needlessly imperils the school's reputation among students and prospective students.
 

aubeirish

Well-known member
Messages
3,601
Reaction score
149
I think 18 year old kids would change their minds a lot more often if they didn't have to sit a year. It's better for everyone that this rule is in place.
^This. A contract is a contract. It comes with rules and obligations. If he appeals and get this thing overturned so be it. It will be NCAA's business. It's not about loosing a player, it's about following the rules. He can transfer all he wants, that's his right.
 

md_bennett

New member
Messages
654
Reaction score
22
Can we PLEASE close this thread until real information is available? Getting to be worse than any thread I have ever read. It is serving no real purpose but to spew hate at each other and argue in circles.
 

NDWorld247

New member
Messages
2,474
Reaction score
302
Read a little bit of the thread, the reason why letting him out of his LOI is a terrible idea has already been discussed ad nauseum. It would set a very bad precedent and open a large loop hole that every program in the country doesn't want to have to deal with and would be unable to close.

If all of the sudden kids could just jump out of their LOI's a month before school started with no penalty don't you see how that could cause problems?

No one's arguing it would create a legal precedent, but it would create a precedent in the court of public opinion, which could be just as damaging in the long term.

Whiskey, I have seen posters argue the 'legal' precedent. I could go back further and quote posters that either said, or implied, that letting him out of his LOI would open the flood gates nationally, which is simply not the case. I agree it would be a bad precedent in the court of public opinion for ND to let him out, and I highly doubt ND would treat players as unfairly as my original example, but my post was directed more to the posters that have predicted what it would do to rules nationally and, as the last sentence of my post said, I agree with all of the reasons stated here with the exception of "it would create a mass exodus of players across the country". I should have been more specific.

Bottom line is ND did not let him out of his LOI and rightfully so.
 

Bruin Steve

Banned
Messages
21
Reaction score
6
Sorry...I might LOVE to refute everyone's posts.
But, face it...there are dozens of you and one of me...I don't have that much time.
So, yes, I pick and choose what to answer.
Sorry if any of you feel slighted in that regard ;)

And, yes, I do repeat my points from time to time. As we all do. Mostly because many of you repeat those same themes after they've been answered.

Let's add one here, since it's been asked again--and I haven't previously addressed it.
Someone asked "Why UCLA and not Fresno State or San Jose State, etc.?

Seriously? Why hadn't any of you decided to attend IUPUI or Ball State rather than Notre Dame? The kid obviously doesn't just want to be or need to be closer to home, he also wants a top notch education and a big time Football program. How many UCLA alums are playing in the NFL? How many from San Jose State? And, if Football doesn't turn out to be his future, are you aware of the relative value of a degree from UCLA versus a degree from San Jose or Fresno?
Why not Cal? Their program is a mess right now.
Why not Stanford? They didn't recruit him out of high school.
Of the schools Eddie had as his finalists--the ones that had recruitied him the hardest, that offered him scholarships, UCLA was the one closest to home. And, again, it is a mere CHEAP one-hour plane ride.

There you go, some new material. I hadn't addressed it before because it really should have been obvious.

Someone else brought up that you roster plan for 85 scholarship slots and four years--as why each individual case is important. And that you spend a lot of money recruiting the player.

Okay, but, lots of players that you plan on being there don't show up--for a great many reasons: Academic casualties, injuries, rules violations. All sorts of variables you can't and don't plan for. If it were only that simple that you planned for 85 slots and knew all 85 would show up day one and stay four full years. Doesn't happen. Not at Notre Dame. Not at UCLA. No place. As to spending all that money on recruiting: Notre Dame, UCLA, everyone spends all that money on EVERY recruit they go after--both the ones they sign AND the ones they don't sign. Notre Dame's cost vis-a-vis Eddie would have been the same whether he signed with Notre Dame as it would have been had he signed with UCLA or Alabama or USC. By LOI day, you've spent that kind of money on maybe 50 recruits and signed only 20-25 of them.

Do I listen to what you're saying? Of course I do. I have read this entire thread (and others on your board). I do understand what you are thinking. Hey, my emotional reaction to the same thing, had it happened with a UCLA recruit would likely have been similar. I would like to think that, logically, I could be a voice of reason, but, emotionally, I would also be p*ssed off in similar fashion. I actually enjoy reading the reasonable, logical posts--even those whose points of view I disagree with. Can't say I'm thrilled with the posters who only want to insult my abilities as an attorney (though I laugh more than take any personal affront since I know they have zero idea as to my practice or qualifications. I could post my resume, but, hey, there SHOULD be a bit of privacy here). Luckily, there are enough of you with some desire to actually consider the situation that make it acceptable to deal with the jerks as well.

Again, I didn't come here to be a jerk...or to rub anything in anyone's faces. I DID expect to present a different view on the matter...and to spur some intelligent and lively dialogue (and, thankfully, there's a little of the intelligent sort...and definitely the lively sort!). I originally came to lurk a bit--to see if there was any different information to be found here than on, say, the UCLA boards. In my book, you can always stay with your own message boards and get a decidedly one-sided view on any subject. You can visit rivals' boards and see their viewpoint...and often pick up tidbits of information that add to your own understanding or beliefs. I only started posting here because I thought SOME of you might be interested in hearing a little of the other side. I certainly didn't come here to take abuse (recalling the old Groucho Marx response to that line: "I didn't come here to take this abuse!" "Well, where do you usually go?") or to try to rile anyone up.

Interestingly, one thing that has come up elsewhere on this topic that hasn't been touched upon here is the timeline on all of this. The NCAA's appeal process has a 30 day timeline from the filing of the appeal to the required answer by the institution involved. Notre Dame got in just under the timeline with its answer on May 22. The NCAA has 30 days from that date within which to rule--but, in practice, has most often beaten that deadline. So, no matter what, w'ell know something fairly (though not entirely) conclusive soon. As was noted, Notre Dame's Summer School begins shortly after that--though I think that is moot...that Eddie does not intend on enrolling in Summer School at Notre Dame. But, it does look like we will actually know a bit more ahead of that date.

I think, as all of this winds down, I will likely be more correct than some of you wish to admit.
 

chicago51

Well-known member
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
387
Sorry...I might LOVE to refute everyone's posts.
But, face it...there are dozens of you and one of me...I don't have that much time.
So, yes, I pick and choose what to answer.
Sorry if any of you feel slighted in that regard ;)

And, yes, I do repeat my points from time to time. As we all do. Mostly because many of you repeat those same themes after they've been answered.

Let's add one here, since it's been asked again--and I haven't previously addressed it.
Someone asked "Why UCLA and not Fresno State or San Jose State, etc.?

Seriously? Why hadn't any of you decided to attend IUPUI or Ball State rather than Notre Dame? The kid obviously doesn't just want to be or need to be closer to home, he also wants a top notch education and a big time Football program. How many UCLA alums are playing in the NFL? How many from San Jose State? And, if Football doesn't turn out to be his future, are you aware of the relative value of a degree from UCLA versus a degree from San Jose or Fresno?
Why not Cal? Their program is a mess right now.
Why not Stanford? They didn't recruit him out of high school.
Of the schools Eddie had as his finalists--the ones that had recruitied him the hardest, that offered him scholarships, UCLA was the one closest to home. And, again, it is a mere CHEAP one-hour plane ride.

There you go, some new material. I hadn't addressed it before because it really should have been obvious.

Someone else brought up that you roster plan for 85 scholarship slots and four years--as why each individual case is important. And that you spend a lot of money recruiting the player.

Okay, but, lots of players that you plan on being there don't show up--for a great many reasons: Academic casualties, injuries, rules violations. All sorts of variables you can't and don't plan for. If it were only that simple that you planned for 85 slots and knew all 85 would show up day one and stay four full years. Doesn't happen. Not at Notre Dame. Not at UCLA. No place. As to spending all that money on recruiting: Notre Dame, UCLA, everyone spends all that money on EVERY recruit they go after--both the ones they sign AND the ones they don't sign. Notre Dame's cost vis-a-vis Eddie would have been the same whether he signed with Notre Dame as it would have been had he signed with UCLA or Alabama or USC. By LOI day, you've spent that kind of money on maybe 50 recruits and signed only 20-25 of them.

Do I listen to what you're saying? Of course I do. I have read this entire thread (and others on your board). I do understand what you are thinking. Hey, my emotional reaction to the same thing, had it happened with a UCLA recruit would likely have been similar. I would like to think that, logically, I could be a voice of reason, but, emotionally, I would also be p*ssed off in similar fashion. I actually enjoy reading the reasonable, logical posts--even those whose points of view I disagree with. Can't say I'm thrilled with the posters who only want to insult my abilities as an attorney (though I laugh more than take any personal affront since I know they have zero idea as to my practice or qualifications. I could post my resume, but, hey, there SHOULD be a bit of privacy here). Luckily, there are enough of you with some desire to actually consider the situation that make it acceptable to deal with the jerks as well.

Again, I didn't come here to be a jerk...or to rub anything in anyone's faces. I DID expect to present a different view on the matter...and to spur some intelligent and lively dialogue (and, thankfully, there's a little of the intelligent sort...and definitely the lively sort!). I originally came to lurk a bit--to see if there was any different information to be found here than on, say, the UCLA boards. In my book, you can always stay with your own message boards and get a decidedly one-sided view on any subject. You can visit rivals' boards and see their viewpoint...and often pick up tidbits of information that add to your own understanding or beliefs. I only started posting here because I thought SOME of you might be interested in hearing a little of the other side. I certainly didn't come here to take abuse (recalling the old Groucho Marx response to that line: "I didn't come here to take this abuse!" "Well, where do you usually go?") or to try to rile anyone up.

Interestingly, one thing that has come up elsewhere on this topic that hasn't been touched upon here is the timeline on all of this. The NCAA's appeal process has a 30 day timeline from the filing of the appeal to the required answer by the institution involved. Notre Dame got in just under the timeline with its answer on May 22. The NCAA has 30 days from that date within which to rule--but, in practice, has most often beaten that deadline. So, no matter what, w'ell know something fairly (though not entirely) conclusive soon. As was noted, Notre Dame's Summer School begins shortly after that--though I think that is moot...that Eddie does not intend on enrolling in Summer School at Notre Dame. But, it does look like we will actually know a bit more ahead of that date.

I think, as all of this winds down, I will likely be more correct than some of you wish to admit.

I'm claiming a moral victory for IE here.

33028875.jpg
 
Last edited:

Irishnuke

CFB Message Board Guy
Messages
8,238
Reaction score
3,950
Sorry...I might LOVE to refute everyone's posts.
But, face it...there are dozens of you and one of me...I don't have that much time.
So, yes, I pick and choose what to answer.
Sorry if any of you feel slighted in that regard ;)

And, yes, I do repeat my points from time to time. As we all do. Mostly because many of you repeat those same themes after they've been answered.

Let's add one here, since it's been asked again--and I haven't previously addressed it.
Someone asked "Why UCLA and not Fresno State or San Jose State, etc.?

Seriously? Why hadn't any of you decided to attend IUPUI or Ball State rather than Notre Dame? The kid obviously doesn't just want to be or need to be closer to home, he also wants a top notch education and a big time Football program. How many UCLA alums are playing in the NFL? How many from San Jose State? And, if Football doesn't turn out to be his future, are you aware of the relative value of a degree from UCLA versus a degree from San Jose or Fresno?
Why not Cal? Their program is a mess right now.
Why not Stanford? They didn't recruit him out of high school.
Of the schools Eddie had as his finalists--the ones that had recruitied him the hardest, that offered him scholarships, UCLA was the one closest to home. And, again, it is a mere CHEAP one-hour plane ride.

There you go, some new material. I hadn't addressed it before because it really should have been obvious.

Someone else brought up that you roster plan for 85 scholarship slots and four years--as why each individual case is important. And that you spend a lot of money recruiting the player.

Okay, but, lots of players that you plan on being there don't show up--for a great many reasons: Academic casualties, injuries, rules violations. All sorts of variables you can't and don't plan for. If it were only that simple that you planned for 85 slots and knew all 85 would show up day one and stay four full years. Doesn't happen. Not at Notre Dame. Not at UCLA. No place. As to spending all that money on recruiting: Notre Dame, UCLA, everyone spends all that money on EVERY recruit they go after--both the ones they sign AND the ones they don't sign. Notre Dame's cost vis-a-vis Eddie would have been the same whether he signed with Notre Dame as it would have been had he signed with UCLA or Alabama or USC. By LOI day, you've spent that kind of money on maybe 50 recruits and signed only 20-25 of them.

Do I listen to what you're saying? Of course I do. I have read this entire thread (and others on your board). I do understand what you are thinking. Hey, my emotional reaction to the same thing, had it happened with a UCLA recruit would likely have been similar. I would like to think that, logically, I could be a voice of reason, but, emotionally, I would also be p*ssed off in similar fashion. I actually enjoy reading the reasonable, logical posts--even those whose points of view I disagree with. Can't say I'm thrilled with the posters who only want to insult my abilities as an attorney (though I laugh more than take any personal affront since I know they have zero idea as to my practice or qualifications. I could post my resume, but, hey, there SHOULD be a bit of privacy here). Luckily, there are enough of you with some desire to actually consider the situation that make it acceptable to deal with the jerks as well.

Again, I didn't come here to be a jerk...or to rub anything in anyone's faces. I DID expect to present a different view on the matter...and to spur some intelligent and lively dialogue (and, thankfully, there's a little of the intelligent sort...and definitely the lively sort!). I originally came to lurk a bit--to see if there was any different information to be found here than on, say, the UCLA boards. In my book, you can always stay with your own message boards and get a decidedly one-sided view on any subject. You can visit rivals' boards and see their viewpoint...and often pick up tidbits of information that add to your own understanding or beliefs. I only started posting here because I thought SOME of you might be interested in hearing a little of the other side. I certainly didn't come here to take abuse (recalling the old Groucho Marx response to that line: "I didn't come here to take this abuse!" "Well, where do you usually go?") or to try to rile anyone up.

Interestingly, one thing that has come up elsewhere on this topic that hasn't been touched upon here is the timeline on all of this. The NCAA's appeal process has a 30 day timeline from the filing of the appeal to the required answer by the institution involved. Notre Dame got in just under the timeline with its answer on May 22. The NCAA has 30 days from that date within which to rule--but, in practice, has most often beaten that deadline. So, no matter what, w'ell know something fairly (though not entirely) conclusive soon. As was noted, Notre Dame's Summer School begins shortly after that--though I think that is moot...that Eddie does not intend on enrolling in Summer School at Notre Dame. But, it does look like we will actually know a bit more ahead of that date.

I think, as all of this winds down, I will likely be more correct than some of you wish to admit.

Nope.
 

Emcee77

latress on the men-jay
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
555
Whiskey, I have seen posters argue the 'legal' precedent. I could go back further and quote posters that either said, or implied, that letting him out of his LOI would open the flood gates nationally, which is simply not the case. I agree it would be a bad precedent in the court of public opinion for ND to let him out, and I highly doubt ND would treat players as unfairly as my original example, but my post was directed more to the posters that have predicted what it would do to rules nationally and, as the last sentence of my post said, I agree with all of the reasons stated here with the exception of "it would create a mass exodus of players across the country". I should have been more specific.

Bottom line is ND did not let him out of his LOI and rightfully so.

I think you've misread some of the prior posts in this thread. We ARE saying that letting EV out of his LOI might "open the floodgates nationally," but we don't mean by that that schools all over the country would begin to let kids out of their LOIs, and we don't mean that the rules will somehow change. We mean that players would no longer see signing the LOI as making a final decision; the PERCEPTION among recruits and signees, real or false, would be that there is a real chance that they can throw a fit and get out of their LOIs because EV did it. We don't want to encourage players to sign LOIs in the belief that if they change their minds or get cold feet later, they might be able to go elsewhere without suffering consequences. We want them to believe that if they sign with a school, they have to enroll at that school or sit a year and lose a year of eligibility. We want to KNOW who will be in each year's recruiting class on the first Wednesday in February of each year; we don't want the count to be a guess.
 

GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
Messages
15,102
Reaction score
12,935
Sorry...I might LOVE to refute everyone's posts.
But, face it...there are dozens of you and one of me...I don't have that much time.
So, yes, I pick and choose what to answer.
Sorry if any of you feel slighted in that regard ;)

And, yes, I do repeat my points from time to time. As we all do. Mostly because many of you repeat those same themes after they've been answered.

Let's add one here, since it's been asked again--and I haven't previously addressed it.
Someone asked "Why UCLA and not Fresno State or San Jose State, etc.?

Seriously? Why hadn't any of you decided to attend IUPUI or Ball State rather than Notre Dame? The kid obviously doesn't just want to be or need to be closer to home, he also wants a top notch education and a big time Football program. How many UCLA alums are playing in the NFL? How many from San Jose State? And, if Football doesn't turn out to be his future, are you aware of the relative value of a degree from UCLA versus a degree from San Jose or Fresno?
Why not Cal? Their program is a mess right now.
Why not Stanford? They didn't recruit him out of high school.
Of the schools Eddie had as his finalists--the ones that had recruitied him the hardest, that offered him scholarships, UCLA was the one closest to home. And, again, it is a mere CHEAP one-hour plane ride.

There you go, some new material. I hadn't addressed it before because it really should have been obvious.

Someone else brought up that you roster plan for 85 scholarship slots and four years--as why each individual case is important. And that you spend a lot of money recruiting the player.

Okay, but, lots of players that you plan on being there don't show up--for a great many reasons: Academic casualties, injuries, rules violations. All sorts of variables you can't and don't plan for. If it were only that simple that you planned for 85 slots and knew all 85 would show up day one and stay four full years. Doesn't happen. Not at Notre Dame. Not at UCLA. No place. As to spending all that money on recruiting: Notre Dame, UCLA, everyone spends all that money on EVERY recruit they go after--both the ones they sign AND the ones they don't sign. Notre Dame's cost vis-a-vis Eddie would have been the same whether he signed with Notre Dame as it would have been had he signed with UCLA or Alabama or USC. By LOI day, you've spent that kind of money on maybe 50 recruits and signed only 20-25 of them.

Do I listen to what you're saying? Of course I do. I have read this entire thread (and others on your board). I do understand what you are thinking. Hey, my emotional reaction to the same thing, had it happened with a UCLA recruit would likely have been similar. I would like to think that, logically, I could be a voice of reason, but, emotionally, I would also be p*ssed off in similar fashion. I actually enjoy reading the reasonable, logical posts--even those whose points of view I disagree with. Can't say I'm thrilled with the posters who only want to insult my abilities as an attorney (though I laugh more than take any personal affront since I know they have zero idea as to my practice or qualifications. I could post my resume, but, hey, there SHOULD be a bit of privacy here). Luckily, there are enough of you with some desire to actually consider the situation that make it acceptable to deal with the jerks as well.

Again, I didn't come here to be a jerk...or to rub anything in anyone's faces. I DID expect to present a different view on the matter...and to spur some intelligent and lively dialogue (and, thankfully, there's a little of the intelligent sort...and definitely the lively sort!). I originally came to lurk a bit--to see if there was any different information to be found here than on, say, the UCLA boards. In my book, you can always stay with your own message boards and get a decidedly one-sided view on any subject. You can visit rivals' boards and see their viewpoint...and often pick up tidbits of information that add to your own understanding or beliefs. I only started posting here because I thought SOME of you might be interested in hearing a little of the other side. I certainly didn't come here to take abuse (recalling the old Groucho Marx response to that line: "I didn't come here to take this abuse!" "Well, where do you usually go?") or to try to rile anyone up.

Interestingly, one thing that has come up elsewhere on this topic that hasn't been touched upon here is the timeline on all of this. The NCAA's appeal process has a 30 day timeline from the filing of the appeal to the required answer by the institution involved. Notre Dame got in just under the timeline with its answer on May 22. The NCAA has 30 days from that date within which to rule--but, in practice, has most often beaten that deadline. So, no matter what, w'ell know something fairly (though not entirely) conclusive soon. As was noted, Notre Dame's Summer School begins shortly after that--though I think that is moot...that Eddie does not intend on enrolling in Summer School at Notre Dame. But, it does look like we will actually know a bit more ahead of that date.

I think, as all of this winds down, I will likely be more correct than some of you wish to admit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WtNHuqHWefU?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Last edited:

GoldenIsThyFame

Well-known member
Messages
10,899
Reaction score
789
I think you've misread some of the prior posts in this thread. We ARE saying that letting EV out of his LOI might "open the floodgates nationally," but we don't mean by that that schools all over the country would begin to let kids out of their LOIs, and we don't mean that the rules will somehow change. We mean that players would no longer see signing the LOI as making a final decision; the PERCEPTION among recruits and signees, real or false, would be that there is a real chance that they can throw a fit and get out of their LOIs because EV did it. We don't want to encourage players to sign LOIs in the belief that if they change their minds or get cold feet later, they might be able to go elsewhere without suffering consequences. We want them to believe that if they sign with a school, they have to enroll at that school or sit a year and lose a year of eligibility. We want to KNOW who will be in each year's recruiting class on the first Wednesday in February of each year; we don't want the count to be a guess.

This
 

STLDomer

Schmitty
Messages
9,426
Reaction score
549
Jaylon didn't really ask him questions but he doesnt expect him to be at camp. Jaylon didn't know about the situation until he saw it on Twitter
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,569
Reaction score
20,019
For Steve the Bruin........It's plain and simple. The rule for the LOI was put in by the NCAA, not ND. It's intent is to keep other schools from continuing recruiting and/or tampering with committed kids. Kids would be moving like bingo balls in the hopper if the rule wasn't in place. EV doesn't have to come to ND and I'm fine with that, but he needs to sit out a year.

He can appeal but I doubt the NCAA aloows it. I can't see the courts taking this on if he loses his appeal. It's too small. Even if they did, I would guess by the time it got scheduled football season would be underway.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Henceforth, all posts in EV's thread must be addressed to Steve.

Just for teh lulz.

Steve, can you come back and post a one hundred word response?

And as a side, did you like the medal I created in your honor? Whiskey's got one; Prator has one; I-19 has one, too.
 
Last edited:

ND NYC

New member
Messages
3,571
Reaction score
209
who banned him?
this thread has some hysterical posts in it and a lot due to ole steve and his rantings.

now we'll never have that chance again...Stevie we hardly knew yee!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top