'13 CA DT Eddie Vanderdoes (UCLA)

[ND NYC]

footnote: hate to even feel this way but if EV goes to ucla i may have to root for the trojans aganst them.

enemy of my enemy is now my enemy not my friend

 

[ND NYC]

The rumor surfaced when we were rolling at the end of the last season, not while he was still at ND.

you serious clark? what season are you referring to 2012 or 2011?

so the "team vote/captain vote" which i understood was taken when he was still here was all BS? i always thought ND got tired of his antics (the nichols practice thing, bad ego in the locker room stuff) while he was here...and bascally gave him the boot after telling him to shape up or ship out.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

you serious clark? what season are you referring to 2012 or 2011?

so the "team vote/captain vote" which i understood was taken when he was still here was all BS? i always thought ND got tired of his antics (the nichols practice thing, bad ego in the locker room stuff) while he was here...and bascally gave him the boot after telling him to shape up or ship out.

We're talking about him wanting "back in" after he left. He allegedly contacted the staff about transferring back when we were flying high toward the end of 2012. This has nothing to do with any team vote to give him the boot while he was still on campus.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Getting that you need gator waders to get to the bottom of this thing?

 

[ND NYC]

We're talking about him wanting "back in" after he left. He allegedly contacted the staff about transferring back when we were flying high toward the end of 2012. This has nothing to do with any team vote to give him the boot while he was still on campus.

got it.
i guess my point was on Lynch that he really never wanted to leave in the first place: he got forced out...and wasn't allowed back.
or
are you saying he left with no prodding/pushing...and then when he saw how well we were doing wanted back in? that would actually make more sense.

 

[NDdomer2]

so he could have purposefully not taken/passed a class we required in order to get out of his LOI?

I think this has been debunked by the fact that 247 is reporting we aren't letting him out of his LOI.

If his LOI was null and void due to not taking/passing class how could we "not let him out."

 

[NDdomer2]

To set the record straight:

- Vanderdoes was admitted to ND
- There were no problems with admissions
- There was not and is not an "academic" issue beyond admissions
- Vanderdoes had a "question" for the ND coaching staff and was unhappy with the answer after signing day
- Both parties aren't budging on what the issue/question is
- All of this is per Pete Sampson and TJ on II

To my knowledge, this is the most current information on the situation.

If this is about living in the dorms......

 

[Rhode Irish]

If it isn't about admissions/eligibility then Vanderdoes is being a baby. Plain and simple.

 

[NDdomer2]

If it isn't about admissions/eligibility then Vanderdoes is being a baby. Plain and simple.

I am 98% with you here. My 2% is that if we somehow made him feel like it was something simple to clear up and he signs his LOI, while we drag our feet to tell him no after he signs.

Only scenario I can come up with reading the situation just posted.

 

[Bruin Steve]

Don't be led off track by Scuba Steve. It doesn't appear that EV is ineligible, and no one other than him is saying that.

Actually...What I said was that I found that scenario HIGHLY DOUBTFUL...
There are several on here asserting that it is the "missing a required class" thing...
I said NO...

 

[NDdomer2]

Still...NOBODY here has ever shown any evidence of "tampering"...
ALL speculation.
It does NOT require any tampering by anyone to explain a kid changing his mind...
He could have done it independently...based on all of the information he already possessd...It could have been brought about by his specific interactions, post-LOI with NOTRE DAME...which, based on the statements by Eddie's father, is likely the case.

ONLY testimony we have here is that Vanderdoes feels that something Notre Dame did here was wrong. We do not know exactly whaty that may be. No one has yet said. Either whatever it is is worthy of him getting the release...or it isn't. No way for any of us to judge.

PRESUMING that the decision stemmed from tampering by UCLA is absolute unfounded speculation.

Ever consider this? If he doesn't end up at UCLA, he may likely end up at USC...and ND can face him four times.

Your, "ND did something wrong" is just as much speculation. Get bent.

 

[IrishLax]

Let me step back here and address one issue that seems to keep coming up in your discussion.

Many of you keep speculating that the issue "could be" a missing required class or some similar academic shortcoming on Eddie's part...

HIGHLY DOUBTFUL...
Why?
Because, if that we're the issue, this whole thing would have already been resolved...
Failure to qualify for admission to the university would invalidate the LOI. End of story.
In order for this to still be going on, Notre Dame would have had to admit Eddie without qualification...

So, I doubt that theory is a possibility.

You're not really understanding the issue at hand. Yes, clearly Eddie is qualified for ND or this is a non-starter and he is already out of his LOI. The idea floated around, which is a strong possibility, is that there was some sort of miscommunication... possibly about something academics related (foreign language counting or not counting is always a huge hangup)... that left Eddie really pissed off at a coach/coaches.

At this point in time, there are limited possible scenarios and outcomes...

1. Notre Dame can, somehow, convince Eddie to change his mind and enroll.
2. Notre Dame can grant him his release, be done with it and move on.
3. The NCAA can rule in Eddie's favor and it's over and Eddie goes elsewhere and is immediately eligible.
4. The NCAA can rule in Notre Dame's favor and Eddie goes elsewhere and red shirts one year, then plays three.
5. The NCAA rules in Notre Dame's favor and Eddie resigns himself to playing for Notre Dame.

Correct?

Okay, let's look at the likelihood of each of these possibilities...honestly...
1. Despite the wishes of most Notre Dame fans, doesn't seem to be a very good chance of happening. This has been developing over the past two months and Eddie and family are quite adamant. The longer the struggle, the less the chance.
2. Doesn't seem that Notre Dame is yet willing to concede the point.
3. Along with four, the only two real likely outcomes.
4. See #3
5. Also extremely unlikely. See #1.

So, in all likelihood, it comes down to two possibilities...The appeal process runs its course and, in the case of either result, Eddie plays elsewhere. Either he plays as a freshman, or he redshirts as a freshman. In either case, he goes into the NFL draft in four years, if not sooner.

Really, you're only looking at #4. I don't know why you continue to think #3 is a strong possibility. As I tried to explain in good detail earlier, getting out of a LOI via appeal is extremely rare and typically requires either a procedural error in the actual signing of the LOI OR a serious mitigating circumstance to develop after the LOI was signed. It doesn't seem at this point like either criteria will be met.

Only difference is whether he plays freshman year or merely practices and watches...
He DOES get a full scholarship at his destination school either way. Lots of kids redshirt their freshman years, it isn't really that big a thing.

You don't think PT is a big thing for a 5 top 10 overall player? Wow. Do you even pay cursory attention to recruiting? During the recruiting process, if a school told Eddie he would likely redshirt his freshman year he would've immediately eliminated them. This is a big deal... and the fact that he is willing to deal with it shows just how pissed he is at ND. Also, scholarships are a bit more iffy... he's still a counter, and you'd have to think UCLA signed their full 85... so who is getting cut by fall camp to make room for Eddie? Or did UCLA undersign?

Winning the appeal process is little more than a Pyrrhic victory for Notre Dame. All that would be accomplished would be to deny the kid a year of game experience in revenge for changing his mind after signing the LOI. Will it really set a precedent? Likely not. Not many kids EVER change their minds AFTER signing an LOI anywhere. most often, they signed with a school because that is where they wanted to go...and they are pretty much sold on it. LOI, then, game over.

This one is a RARE instance. So, whatever happens here really won't have any great future effect. Most kids, an overwhelming majority of them, will always follow through and attend the school they've signed with...absent some sort of extenuating circumstance.

You really just don't get it and it's laughable that you're an attorney and can't grasp the concept of precedent. Yes, people care a lot and yes, this is a big deal. The reason why you see this never happen currently is because no one has set the precedent. In this case, you have a kid who was obviously recruited/contacted by UCLA after signing day and is trying to force his way there. If ND implicitly says that this behavior is fine it sets the precedent for kids to be recruited after NSD and try to force their way to other programs if they have a change of heart. That's completely unacceptable and why ND cannot let him out of his LOI.

Nothing Notre Dame does here appears to be able to result in holding on to the recruit. Any attempt to keep the kid from getting out of the LOI appears vindictive at best.

But, assuming that Notre Dame wants to maintain that stand, which way will the appeals process go?
According to the stats one of the posters here posted many pages ago, it's overwhelming in favor of the recruit. But, for the sake of argument, let's say it's 50/50, based on the facts.

You must be high off your *** on something. It is not "overwhelming in favor of the recruit" if the recruit has no legitimate reason to want out of the LOI. If there is a legitimate mitigating circumstance typically that is the only time someone is going to be asking out of the LOI in the first place and then they do have a good chance of winning. If EV is eligible to attend ND (sounds like he is) and there was no procedural error signing the LOI and there is no mitigating circumstance that arose after the LOI was signed that forces him to go to UCLA then he simply will not win the appeal.

Problem is, no one here really knows the facts. Vanderdoes' family believes they have a case. Only they, and, presumably, the school, know what the basis of that appeal is. Everything here is mere speculation.

If it REALLY is the "missing class requirement" theory, but, somehow, Notre Dame has put him into admission limbo, the case is likely pretty strong. You cannot compel someone to take and pass a class. If it's based on some sort of reneging on a promise, say to play one position over another, as has also been speculated here, that's a likely loser. Coaches make "promises" like that in recruiting all the time. Proving it before a trier of fact is near impossible. But, you would think the Vanderdoes family knows that.

Yes, all this makes sense. Except a little bit of the part I bolded. Yes, they cannot compel him to take a HS level class. They can compel him (like all schools do for all students majoring in anything) to take a college level course in order to graduate. So it comes down to interpretation here... and everything I've heard says EV is eligible for ND.

I am GUESSING it is something completely different. There is likely something that works as an argument...and an arbitration may go either way...but, either way makes little difference.

It really seems like some sort of amalgamation of ND doing something to **** him off, impermissible contact with UCLA ensuring him they're a real option if he wants in and it wouldn't be so bad to come sit a year there, and then EV making up his mind that he is done with ND. When you put all the pieces together that series of events seems pretty inarguable. The real question is, as you said, whether whatever occurred is justification for wanting out of the LOI. I doubt it is, but I also doubt it is something trivial. There is a 0% chance that this is over something like what position he would play.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Still...NOBODY here has ever shown any evidence of "tampering"...
ALL speculation.
It does NOT require any tampering by anyone to explain a kid changing his mind...
He could have done it independently...based on all of the information he already possessd...It could have been brought about by his specific interactions, post-LOI with NOTRE DAME...which, based on the statements by Eddie's father, is likely the case.

ONLY testimony we have here is that Vanderdoes feels that something Notre Dame did here was wrong. We do not know exactly whaty that may be. No one has yet said. Either whatever it is is worthy of him getting the release...or it isn't. No way for any of us to judge.

PRESUMING that the decision stemmed from tampering by UCLA is absolute unfounded speculation.

Ever consider this? If he doesn't end up at UCLA, he may likely end up at USC...and ND can face him four times.

Hunter Bivin

Steve Elmer

Mike McGlinchey

Colin McGovern

John Montelus

Alex Bars

Jimmy Byrne

Sam Mustipher

Quenton Nelson

 

[NDdomer2]

Ever consider this? If he doesn't end up at UCLA, he may likely end up at USC...and ND can face him four times.

This sounds like a butt hurt parent so bad.

 

[RuntheBall]

I think the speculation of tampering is coming from is the reported "fact" that BK and the ND staff were/are pissed at the UCLA staff. Someone said recruiting battles between the two schools would be very heated in the future (or something like that).

If UCLA never contacted Eddie, then I can't see why the ND coaching staff would be mad at UCLA. So the assumption was that BK and ND is angry with UCLA because of 'tampering'. Otherwise they would just be mad at Eddie and the Vanderhoes family (IMO).

 

[IrishLax]

Still...NOBODY here has ever shown any evidence of "tampering"...
ALL speculation.
It does NOT require any tampering by anyone to explain a kid changing his mind...
He could have done it independently...based on all of the information he already possessd...It could have been brought about by his specific interactions, post-LOI with NOTRE DAME...which, based on the statements by Eddie's father, is likely the case.

ONLY testimony we have here is that Vanderdoes feels that something Notre Dame did here was wrong. We do not know exactly whaty that may be. No one has yet said. Either whatever it is is worthy of him getting the release...or it isn't. No way for any of us to judge.

PRESUMING that the decision stemmed from tampering by UCLA is absolute unfounded speculation.

This is such bullshit. Of course none of us has any hard evidence. We aren't the law or even investigative journalists.

Explain to me how the UCLA staff can possibly have known, in your words and others, for at least 2 months that this was possibility or was "brewing" without any contact with Eddie or his family or through a 3rd party. I'll wait. Seriously, give me any plausible theory.

(Hint: there is no possible way, therefor there must have been contact).

 

[Patulski]

All this about one player?

If he doesn't want to come to ND, I wish him well. We're gearing up for a nice long run with or without him.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Same aisle as the tampons.

you really know how to hurt someones feelings

 

[Bruin Steve]

Your, "ND did something wrong" is just as much speculation. Get bent.

I didn't say ND did something wrong.
What I said was that the Vanderdoes family BELIEVES ND did something wrong.

Just an observation of the facts we DO know. We know that Mr. Vanerdoes has said this--though without a detailed explanation.

 

[ozzman]

Ever consider this? If he doesn't end up at UCLA, he may likely end up at USC...and ND can face him four times.

You mean three once his appeal gets denied.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Still...NOBODY here has ever shown any evidence of "tampering"...
ALL speculation.
It does NOT require any tampering by anyone to explain a kid changing his mind...
He could have done it independently...based on all of the information he already possessd...It could have been brought about by his specific interactions, post-LOI with NOTRE DAME...which, based on the statements by Eddie's father, is likely the case.

ONLY testimony we have here is that Vanderdoes feels that something Notre Dame did here was wrong. We do not know exactly whaty that may be. No one has yet said. Either whatever it is is worthy of him getting the release...or it isn't. No way for any of us to judge.

PRESUMING that the decision stemmed from tampering by UCLA is absolute unfounded speculation.

Ever consider this? If he doesn't end up at UCLA, he may likely end up at USC...and ND can face him four times.

EVER CONSIDER THIS: EV WONT HAVE FOUR YEARS TO FACE ANYONE?

 

[amgarvey]

Please just go away Steve. This thread is already drowning in a sea of your inanities.

 

[Bruin Steve]

This is such bullshit. Of course none of us has any hard evidence. We aren't the law or even investigative journalists.

Explain to me how the UCLA staff can possibly have known, in your words and others, for at least 2 months that this was possibility or was "brewing" without any contact with Eddie or his family or through a 3rd party. I'll wait. Seriously, give me any plausible theory.

(Hint: there is no possible way, therefor there must have been contact).

UCLA staff hasn't known this has been brewing for two months.
People close to Eddie HAVE known this...and THAT has leaked out in some quarters--among fans and some media people...It didn't really leak out two months ago. It leaked out recently that it has been going on for two months.

In fact, many of your members on this board have known that something was going on--based on facebook and twitter posts and such. It is NOT a big secret.

Nothing to do with UCLA...

 

[IrishinTN]

This thread has about exhausted every avenue of conversation. We even have the Vanderdoes lawyer chiming in. Yet like a car accident, I can't turn away.

However, the conclusion seems no longer in doubt, and the evidence in the case leads me to believe that Little Eddie is being pedantic and knows better what he should be doing at Notre Dame than the staff that recruited him. And then he adds "Because my daddy said so."

Hey, I get it. He doesn't want to come here any more even after taking over a year to review his options and come to a decision at the last minute. Fine, we can't force him to come here. But he can't just walk away. He signed a dern contract. Notre Dame cannot afford to sway on it and no one except UCLA fans could blame them.

To say the least, this would be a terrible precedent to set, not just for Notre Dame, but Div. I football as a whole.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You mean three once his appeal gets denied.

Great first post! Welcome aboard! In spite of pimping me, LOL!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This thread has about exhausted every avenue of conversation. We even have the Vanderdoes lawyer chiming in. Yet like a car accident, I can't turn away.

However, the conclusion seems no longer in doubt, and the evidence in the case leads me to believe that Little Eddie is being pedantic and knows better what he should be doing at Notre Dame than the staff that recruited him. And then he adds "Because my daddy said so."

Hey, I get it. He doesn't want to come here any more even after taking over a year to review his options and come to a decision at the last minute. Fine, we can't force him to come here. But he can't just walk away. He signed a dern contract. Notre Dame cannot afford to sway on it and no one except UCLA fans could blame them.

To say the least, this would be a terrible precedent to set, not just for Notre Dame, but Div. I football as a whole.

Double word score for using the word "pedantic" and reps with gift!

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

UCLA staff hasn't known this has been brewing for two months.
People close to Eddie HAVE known this...and THAT has leaked out in some quarters--among fans and some media people...It didn't really leak out two months ago. It leaked out recently that it has been going on for two months.

In fact, many of your members on this board have known that something was going on--based on facebook and twitter posts and such. It is NOT a big secret.

Nothing to do with UCLA...

How do you know the UCLA staff hasn't known? Aren't you in fact just speculating just as you are accusing us of doing? Show me some facts that prove that they didn't know. It did leak out at least a month and a half ago. Another member of this very board PM'd a mod mentioning that there was an issue with EV.

 

[ND NYC]

Seriously?
The testimony of the person testifying to his own state of mind?
Does it PROVE ND did something wrong? No. But I never asserted that.
My assertion was that Mr. Vanderdoes believes they did.
Mr. Vanderdoes stating that they did proves my assertion. Doesn't prove he's correct, just proves that this is what he believes.

"depends on what the meaning of is is..."

 

[Bruin Steve]

I think the speculation of tampering is coming from is the reported "fact" that BK and the ND staff were/are pissed at the UCLA staff. Someone said recruiting battles between the two schools would be very heated in the future (or something like that).

If UCLA never contacted Eddie, then I can't see why the ND coaching staff would be mad at UCLA. So the assumption was that BK and ND is angry with UCLA because of 'tampering'. Otherwise they would just be mad at Eddie and the Vanderhoes family (IMO).

I haven't seen anything from anyone in any official capacity at Notre Dame stating they were "mad at UCLA"...Just alleged third-hand message board posts here.

If anyone OFFICIALLY at Notre Dame has any actual vidence of tampering by UCLA, then, no doubt, they could just put it out there in public.

Of course, they won't because they don't.

 

[IrishLax]

UCLA staff hasn't known this has been brewing for two months.
People close to Eddie HAVE known this...and THAT has leaked out in some quarters--among fans and some media people...It didn't really leak out two months ago. It leaked out recently that it has been going on for two months.

In fact, many of your members on this board have known that something was going on--based on facebook and twitter posts and such. It is NOT a big secret.

Nothing to do with UCLA...

I knew about it a week or so before it broke (from GITF) and when I asked around I was basically the last one to have heard. Everyone already knew, which made it shocking it was still under wraps. Probably because, at first blush, it seemed ridiculous and people dismissed it.

But your first sentence, presented as a statement, is just as speculative but you feel comfortable stating it as fact. Again... I'll ask you this... how is it that UCLA insiders when this "broke" were so well informed and knew it had been happening for weeks and knew he intended to go to UCLA unless there was contact between Eddie and UCLA? How could they possibly know that was where he was trying to go unless there had been some contact? Initiated by Eddie or UCLA is irrelevant. It's really naive to think he decided to push through with all of this without any contact with UCLA to, at minimum, determine it was a plausible landing spot and would all be OK.

And I've heard from multiple people that ND coaches think/know there was impermissible contact with UCLA. Could they be wrong? Sure. Will we ever get evidence? Absolutely not. But there is nothing you can possibly provide that will convince me otherwise. It just doesn't fit with the course of events.