'13 CA DT Eddie Vanderdoes (UCLA)

[NDdomer2]

If you told me I'd only have to pay that amount for 4-5 years worth of a college education and put myself in a position to play big time CFB during that span, maybe even make the NFL...You take that no matter what....It's really tough to debate.

was just going to say something along these lines, 30k is nothing when you look at the potential ROI.

 

[Irishman77]

It truly is the Wild West. I guess we will continue down this path until someone in the NCAA refuses to sell out and restore integrity.

If a kid wants to back out of his loi the NCAA should do a full fledged investigation. Take the burden out of the universities hand and stop this sickening path to the tail wagging the dog.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

So is this right? I feel like people keep saying ND holds all the cards, but I don't understand how that's possible.

Unless ND did something since he signed his LOI to make him change his mind and it's serious enough to warrant the NCAA granting him a release from his LOI, ND does not have to release him and if they do not, then he will have to sit out a year and he will lose a year of eligibility in the process. I believe he can pay his own way his freshman year if he so desires. I am not clear if he can practice with the UCLA team but not play or if he can't do anything for a year. And if he doesn't get out of his LOI, I'm not sure if ND can block who he can transfer to or if they can only do that if they release him from his LOI. If I were ND, I would release him from his LOI but block all Cali major schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, even the Arizona schools). I don't think it makes ND the bad guys here to try to control where he gets to play college ball. EV signed a LOI, a commitment, and at some point these players need to honor that commitment. At least some of the other players tried ND 1st and realized it wasn't for them but EV doesn't even want to give it a shot. He knew it was thousands of miles away when he committed so what's he going to say to the NCAA board of appeals? I didn't know it was so far away? I don't think so. I hope he comes to ND but if not, man up and accept whatever decision ND makes. And guys like Davonte and Lynch, they had extenuating circumstances with babies on the way (at least I think Lynch's GF was pregnant at the time). Other than that, ND needs to quit being so nice about everything. I know it can affect future recruiting efforts if players know they will have a hard time transferring but I think ND has proven that if you at least give ND a shot and try it for a year and it's not working, then they will work with you. But to get cold feet before you even step foot on campus? I hope EV realizes he probably won't get drafted by a west coast team so he will have to leave the nest eventually.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So he's probably going to sit out a year while still getting to practice at UCLA and have to pay to go to school for a year? Then he gets a scholly and has 4 years remaining and there's no way for us to prove UCLA maintained contact after he signed his NLOI?

NOLA and BGIF know far more about the NCAA rule book than I do, but you're missing one half of the penalty:

Basic penalty for not fulfilling the NLI agreement: A student-athlete has to serve one year in residence (full-time, two semesters or three quarters) at the next NLI member institution and lose one season of competition in all sports.

EV would have to: (1) pay his own way as a Freshman; (2) sit out his Freshman year; and (3) give up another year of eligibility. So instead of having 5 years to play 4 seasons, he'd only have 3 years to play 3 seasons. That's a serious risk for him, because he'd be one season-ending injury away from losing half of college eligibility.

The smartest play for him is to come play at ND for a year, and if he still wants out, to transfer immediately after the 2013 season. Then he could red-shirt during his sophomore year, which would run concurrently with the 1-year transfer penalty, and still have 3 full years of eligibility at the school of his choice.

 

[clashmore_mike]

A bit off topic but after a few fingers of wild turkey I was thinking of how all the unreal situations the last 3 years is seasoning Diaco. DC/assist HC at Notre Dame, working long term under one of the best coaches in the country (I believe Kelly is the best), and taking these recruiting battle scars with him....look out when he is running his own ship!

you did what to a turkey now?

 

[stlnd01]

was just going to say something along these lines, 30k is nothing when you look at the potential ROI.

His potential ROI at Notre Dame is at least as high as at UCLA, and he can go there for free starting in June. It's not UCLA or nothing.
Like Whiskey just said, his smartest move is to try Notre Dame. If after the season he still doesn't want to go there, then fine, move on. But he's probably only hurting himself by bailing now.

 

[pkt77242]

you did what to a turkey now?

He fingers animals.

 

[greyhammer90]

He fingers animals.

Congrats pkt

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Elston today at a silent auction in Ft. Wayne. Fwiw.

Clearly this means that he's not going anywhere.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

His potential ROI at Notre Dame is at least as high as at UCLA, and he can go there for free starting in June.

ND offers ~3x the degree value that UCLA does. No comparison.

Like Whiskey just said, his smartest move is to try Notre Dame. If after the season he still doesn't want to go there, then fine, move on. But he's probably only hurting himself by bailing now.

This is what puzzles me. Choosing to break one's NLOI is a pretty extreme decision, as the penalties are steep. He'd really have to be pissed at ND to do that, and thus far, it sounds mostly like a combination of cold feet and tampering from UCLA; nothing that would generate sufficient spite toward ND to justify sticking it to us like this.

I wonder if the family truly understands their options here. If not, perhaps there's more hope than we've been led to believe. $30k out of the family bank account, one year wasted in residency, and another year of eligibility lost on top of that is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[greyhammer90]

This is what puzzles me. Choosing to break one's NLOI is a pretty extreme decision, as the penalties are steep. He'd really have to be pissed at ND to do that, and thus far, it sounds mostly like a combination of cold feet and tampering from UCLA; nothing that would generate sufficient spite toward ND to justify sticking it to us like this.

Say it with me Whiskey

People! Are! Stupid!

 

[pkt77242]

ND offers ~3x the degree value that UCLA does. No comparison.



This is what puzzles me. Choosing to break one's NLOI is a pretty extreme decision, as the penalties are steep. He'd really have to be pissed at ND to do that, and thus far, it sounds mostly like a combination of cold feet and tampering from UCLA; nothing that would generate sufficient spite toward ND to justify sticking it to us like this.

I wonder if the family truly understands their options here. If not, perhaps there's more hope than we've been led to believe. $30k out of the family bank account, one year wasted in residency, and another year of eligibility lost on top of that is nothing to sneeze at.

Whisky, while I agree with you, I am not sure that they know their options or that they are thinking logically. Some people/families don't make decisions based of the financial impact, they make them off of their gut or impulse decisions. I am not saying that that is what they are doing but we truthfully don't know.

 

[IrishLax]

So he's probably going to sit out a year while still getting to practice at UCLA and have to pay to go to school for a year? Then he gets a scholly and has 4 years remaining and there's no way for us to prove UCLA maintained contact after he signed his NLOI?

This is where it gets really interesting. Rules state you must keep a log of all phone calls/contact and the NCAA can request it. Would this matter if they're using burn phones? Or something else shady? No. Would you write down impermissible contact? No.

But if the NCAA were to request records they could also request phone logs and emails from coaches. You can't, as a member institution, say "no" to that request. The only place where the NCAA has 'subpoena' power of any sort is with employees of member institutions and the institutions themselves. You have to cooperate, or you get the book thrown at you like USC. Athletes and boosters? The NCAA has really minimal power to truly collect evidence.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whisky, while I agree with you, I am not sure that they know their options or that they are thinking logically. Some people/families don't make decisions based of the financial impact, they make them off of their gut or impulse decisions. I am not saying that that is what they are doing but we truthfully don't know.

Maybe the staff has already done this, but I'd think an honest (and preferably in-person) conversation with Kelly or Elston could go a long way toward resolving this. Assuming his appeal is denied and ND refuses to release him, Eddie's options are pretty clear, and attending ND for at least one year is the only logical choice.

People can generally be counted on to act in their own self-interest. They're not always smart enough to see what that is, but in case, there are lots of smart people heavily invested in the situation who could easily explain it to them.

 

[pkt77242]

Maybe the staff has already done this, but I'd think an honest (and preferably in-person) conversation with Kelly or Elston could go a long way toward resolving this. Assuming his appeal is denied and ND refuses to release him, Eddie's options are pretty clear, and attending ND for at least one year is the only logical choice.

People can generally be counted on to act in their own self-interest. They're not always smart enough to see what that is, but in case, there are lots of smart people heavily invested in the situation who could easily explain it to them.

While I agree with the gist of your arguement with the majority of people once they make up their minds their is no changing it. In fact if ND argues what you say, they might view it as ND threatening them or the fact that ND is out to get them, or not working with them. If they already switched to the view that ND is not good for their son or not being honest with them, then they will percieve it how they want too.

 

[Freeman Ara]

After looking at the national letter of intent rules, to my understanding he could actually go to UCLA on a full ride but he wouldn't be able to play for two years:

If I do not satisfy my National Letter of Intent agreement, may I practice or receive athletics aid at another National Letter of Intent institution?
Yes. Signing a National Letter of Intent does not impact your ability to practice or receive athletics aid at another National Letter of Intent institution. The Basic Penalty under the National Letter of Intent program is that you lose two years of eligibility in all sports and have to sit two years in residence at the next National Letter of Intent institution.

 

[IrishLax]

BTW his appeal will 100% be denied unless there is some crazy mitigating circumstance that none of us are privy to.

The only way you get out of a LOI is if something monumental occurs after signing it. Forexample, both parents were diagnosed with cancer before the LOI is signed it's immaterial. You can't say "oh well now I want to stay closer to home because XYZ" if you already knew that condition existed prior to signing it.

The only times I've seen someone get out of a LOI is if a coach/school commits major violations and gets sanctioned. And usually the NCAA announces along with the sanctions that the prospective class is released from LOIs. I'm sure in very rare instances an act of God or some sort of tampering with the LOI can also be basis for getting out of it.

But anything remotely related to having a voluntary change of heart is a non-starter.

 

[greyhammer90]

Whisky, while I agree with you, I am not sure that they know their options or that they are thinking logically. Some people/families don't make decisions based of the financial impact, they make them off of their gut or impulse decisions. I am not saying that that is what they are doing but we truthfully don't know.

This is the truth. That's my biggest issue with what recruiting is doing to these kids. It's not that they are spoiled or self-centered, it's that they are told that their college choice is supposed to be this "magic" moment that turns the world into sunshine and lollipops and that their college choice should feel like "home".

This means that they think not being 100% comfortable about going somewhere means that they made the wrong decision. That's not what it means. You're supposed to get a little homesick, your supposed to think "sh*t that's not like home, that's different", your even supposed to think (IMO) "I want to go home" at some point. That's the point. You're growing up, and growing up is damn hard, and it's going to be damn hard wherever you go.

But these recruits are told by the media, coaches, and others that their college choice should be an emotional one. That's partially true, but that should never be what's solely driving it. It's just a shame most don't realize it. (I think that's why you generally see transfers be less successful, they didn't succeed in the hardest part of college football... the college part.)

 

[koonja]

NOLA and BGIF know far more about the NCAA rule book than I do, but you're missing one half of the penalty:



EV would have to: (1) pay his own way as a Freshman; (2) sit out his Freshman year; and (3) give up another year of eligibility. So instead of having 5 years to play 4 seasons, he'd only have 3 years to play 3 seasons. That's a serious risk for him, because he'd be one season-ending injury away from losing half of college eligibility.

The smartest play for him is to come play at ND for a year, and if he still wants out, to transfer immediately after the 2013 season. Then he could red-shirt during his sophomore year, which would run concurrently with the 1-year transfer penalty, and still have 3 full years of eligibility at the school of his choice.

Lol, I said this was a possibility, almost verbatim, and Irishnike told me the opinion was moronic, only to be backed up by HCTI. According to them, it's an impossibility. So welcome to the crazytrain, Whiskey!

 

[koonja]

Elston today at a silent auction in Ft. Wayne. Fwiw.

Where did you hear this? Not doubting you, but I'd like to do some more digging.

Edit: Elston likes incoming defensive linemen | The Journal Gazette

 

[IrishLax]

As an aside, the single best thing about the deregulation of CFB would be that everyone has to put their cards on the table in terms of signing bonuses or whatever so everything becomes quantifyable and that when someone picks a school they would sign a legally binding contract of some sort. This would all drastically streamline recruiting and take the BS out of it... think protracted NFL free agency.

 

[Irishnuke]

Lol, I said this was a possibility, almost verbatim, and Irishnike told me the opinion was moronic, only to be backed up by HCTI. According to them, it's an impossibility. So welcome to the crazytrain, Whiskey!

I didn't say it was an impossibility. I said it was stupid and it absolutely is. Why would you want a guy playing for your team that doesn't want to be there and you know will transfer after one season. Tell me Kuehnja, do you really think that after Notre Dame denying EV's request to get out if his LOI that he is willingly going to suit up for the Irish next season and give 110% effort? Do you think the rest of the team will accept a guy that doesn't want to play with them? Do you really think that's good for team chemistry? Imagine how the guy he plays over is going to feel when BK puts in a kid that doesn't give shits about Notre Dame or his teammates. You think that is going to make that player happy? Think about that for a minute and then think about how stupid the idea of EV playing one season for ND and then transferring is.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I didn't say it was an impossibility. I said it was stupid and it absolutely is. Why would you want a guy playing for your team that doesn't want to be there and you know will transfer after one season. Tell me Kuehnja, do you really think that after Notre Dame denying EV's request to get out if his LOI that he is willingly going to suit up for the Irish next season and give 110% effort? Do you think the rest of the team will accept a guy that doesn't want to play with them? Do you really think that's good for team chemistry? Imagine how the guy he plays over is going to feel when BK puts in a kid that doesn't give shits about Notre Dame or his teammates. You think that is going to make that player happy? Think about that for a minute and then think about how stupid the idea of EV playing one season for ND and then transferring is.

That's one possibility. Another is that getting him on campus reminds him of why he committed in the first place, he really bonds with his teammates, decides to stay at ND, etc. If given the choice, I bet the coaching staff would prefer to have a year to work on Vanderdoes.

 

[pkt77242]

I didn't say it was an impossibility. I said it was stupid and it absolutely is. Why would you want a guy playing for your team that doesn't want to be there and you know will transfer after one season. Tell me Kuehnja, do you really think that after Notre Dame denying EV's request to get out if his LOI that he is willingly going to suit up for the Irish next season and give 110% effort? Do you think the rest of the team will accept a guy that doesn't want to play with them? Do you really think that's good for team chemistry? Imagine how the guy he plays over is going to feel when BK puts in a kid that doesn't give shits about Notre Dame or his teammates. You think that is going to make that player happy? Think about that for a minute and then think about how stupid the idea of EV playing one season for ND and then transferring is.

Stockholm syndrome or something similar would explain the gist of why it could work.

Also, yes I do realize that I just took both sides of the arguement. I just think that it is easy for people to think logically and rationally when they are removed from the situation but it is significantly harder when you are close to the situation.

 

[BeauBenken]

...these rumors have been floating around for a while, wasnt worth posting until they were publicly confirmed by Sampson yesterday. It would have led to chaos w/ no answers and no substance if someone posted it earlier.

Just using Domer's post because this is a good example, but there are some posters who know information a head of time, but do not post it because it's not fact.

I heard about there being a problem with Eddie a long time ago, but it's not something you post about because **** changes drastically daily. A good portion of what you hear ends up never coming to fruition.

I've honestly learned that me worrying about a bad rumor just isn't worth my time. We can't do anything about it!

If you don’t have a problem… then don’t worry.
If you have a problem, but you can’t do something about it….then don’t worry.
If you have a problem and you can do something about it …then don’t worry.

 

[Redbar]

UCLA's scout page had a Tuesday morning "More on Vanderdoes Situation" report and a Tuesday afternoon "New Development" report. Seems like they know more than we do, can we make a circumstantial case for tampering?

 

[vmgsf]

Putting the pieces together as best as I can and totally speculating in this saga. TP's post suggests Notre Dame treated him fairly and clearly told him what he needed to do academically, he agreed to do it and he told Notre Dame he would do it, he was clearly capable of doing it and because of this Notre Dame accepted his LOI. My GUESS is he did this but he and his parents were upset because Notre Dame would have the GALL to tell him what he had to do when he as a superstar did not really need to do anything except be a football star and sign his million dollar NFL deal. Other colleges were blowing smoke up his *** telling him Notre Dame has treated you unfairly. You are a superstar. Play football here and we will keep you eligible whether or not you get a college degree but since you are a guaranteed NFL millionaire college football is merely minor league football and a mere formality.

My guess - he and his parents have been told by some colleges and "advisers," NCAA will release you from LOI. Otherwise why appeal?

Next step NCAA decision. Once the NCAA denies his appeal to release him from his LOI. Reality will set in. Smoke will clear. Choices other than honoring his commitment - formalized and signed by him in his LOI - do not look as "appealing." It will be interesting to see what happens then. No predictions.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Look this sucks because EV would have been huge for ND, but this has to be a mentioned for thread of the year. Its like the Aaron Lynch thread but worse, ok that was probably a bit of a stretch

 

[rikkitikki08]

Quick question, do you think the recent string of commits not honoring a scholarship has more to do with the coaching staff or the society we live in today that makes these kids think they don't have to honor a commitment?

Its a legitimate question and wondering what others think

 

[KyfightingIrish36]

Well there are high profile transfers every year. But it seems we have a 5* recruit transfer every off season. That's not normal.