Program Turning Point

[IrishAlum1997]

Since the game is to one-up each other in how far back we can point, I'll join in too: how about the hire of Knute Rockne. Without him, Notre Dame wouldn't have the magical tradition and name that it has. These have provided a major impetus for a Notre Dame return, and the tradition has helped us to bring in the top coaches, players and support for the team.

I'm going with the Big Bang Theory. Winner.

 

[BurningRiver]

It's a cosmic confluence of factors that have brought us to the brink once again. I'll go back even further and say the turning point was the Bush Push game in '05. We win that game, we are playing Texas for a national title that year. Win or lose, I don't believe the recruiting momentum would've been much, if any, stronger, and our defensive flaws would continue to manifest as Charlie would no doubt have gotten a little more latitude and more time with a potential national title under his belt.

I would go one step further to say that Brady Quinn would have gone pro a year earlier, with Sharpley and 2 true freshmen battling for the starting QB spot in 2006. The offense would have floundered, and our offensive recruiting may have stalled out, with players like Michael Floyd and Kyle Rudolph perhaps taking their talents elsewhere.

So in reality, we all have that cheating bastard Reggie Bush to thank for our beloved Irish finally being rebuilt the right way, with the potential for a decade of dominance and beyond.

This one's interesting. Doesn't make that loss any less painful, but this is a pretty solid argument.

 

[BGIF]

The Departure of President Malloy. All else follows.

 

[Fbolt]

I'll go back further. Charlie Weis's effort into recruiting top tier players was the start of Notre Dame's resurgence. I also could argue that getting Manti Teo was a pivotal point. Everything Kelly has been doing since he got here with team building and conditioning as well.

Agreed that it started with Charlies recruiting efforts to bring in quality guys. It then switched to Starbrick to see that the program was not succeeding and his pick of Kelly as the Coach. From there it was continued recruiting success and coaching fundamentals/player development/instilling the winning attitude.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I respectfully disagree with crediting the turning point of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish 10-0 record to Charlie Weis.

I'm sticking with something that could actually be a proximate cause of this year's season, and repping previous poster for saying Manti returning.

 

[notredomer23]

It's the blocked punt against Utah for me, but for other reasons than it was a big play. Let's be honest, since that play other than 2 George Atkinson kick returns, special teams have been bad. I look at that game itself as the turning point because over the last 4 games, the defense in real time gave up a total of 25 points. We became a defensive, run first team, which is what we are today. If you are looking at a particular moment, now that I think about it, I am going to change my tune(bipolar post). It wasn't in the Utah game. It was goal line stand after goal line stand against USC. This team did everything to give that game away and the defense refused.

 

[clashmore_jon]

I'll go back further. Charlie Weis's effort into recruiting top tier players was the start of Notre Dame's resurgence. I also could argue that getting Manti Teo was a pivotal point. Everything Kelly has been doing since he got here with team building and conditioning as well.

this. thank you. I blame 85% of the weis era woes on that one golfer guy.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

2011 recruiting class is The Turning Point.

- Blocked punt was key to the 2010 season and I think it did turn the 2010 season around...and you can argue that we dont get the 2011 class without winning those 4 games.

2011 class was depth where we have never had depth. Talent where ND didnt have talent. Heart where they didnt have heart. A new breed of athlete. A new type of mentality. Everything about this class was nothing like Weis/Willingham classes. It showed BK could recruit nationally. Get kids from states where elite talent stayed. Got kids that wanted to play for ND and win a title for ND. Not a place in NFL. These kids werent coming to ND for the coach...but for ND.

They are in their second year and they have already made season/program changing plays. Guys have stepped to the plate and answered the call. They bust their *** everyday and havent scratched their potential. I mean Tuitt, Farley, GA3, Ishaq, Davaris, Golson, Niklas, etc....it goes on. They are KEY parts of this years team, yet all of them are just settling in their roles. Golson to Davaris for THREE more years...are you kidding me.

Its the foundation of the DYNASTY that Kelly is building.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

2011 recruiting class is The Turning Point.

- Blocked punt was key to the 2010 season and I think it did turn the 2010 season around...and you can argue that we dont get the 2011 class without winning those 4 games.

2011 class was depth where we have never had depth. Talent where ND didnt have talent. Heart where they didnt have heart. A new breed of athlete. A new type of mentality. Everything about this class was nothing like Weis/Willingham classes. It showed BK could recruit nationally. Get kids from states where elite talent stayed. Got kids that wanted to play for ND and win a title for ND. Not a place in NFL. These kids werent coming to ND for the coach...but for ND.

They are in their second year and they have already made season/program changing plays. Guys have stepped to the plate and answered the call. They bust their *** everyday and havent scratched their potential. I mean Tuitt, Farley, GA3, Ishaq, Davaris, Golson, Niklas, etc....it goes on. They are KEY parts of this years team, yet all of them are just settling in their roles. Golson to Davaris for THREE more years...are you kidding me.

Its the foundation of the DYNASTY that Kelly is building.

The groundwork for this transformation was laid well before this... Most of the kids from that class are good, but not necessarily key contributors yet. Outside of Tuitt, Golson and Russell who comes a year later, most of the others are spot guys. Hardly the foundation. Te'o, Chocolate, Kappy, Carlo, Foxy, Motta, Tommy, Martin, Cave, Golic, Theo, Cierre, Goodman....on and on... Those guys paved the way for this team. They bought in to Kelly's system and brought the younger guys with them. All of them deserve an atta boy for their efforts in putting this team in the right direction.

Good night, Now....

 

[stlnd01]

Clearly, it was the signing of Tyler Stockton and Shaq Evans.
Wait, got a little carried away with that Teo clip.

I don't know that you can point to one moment. But a few things jump out.

Decisions by Michael Floyd, Manti Teo and Tyler Eifert to turn down 1st/2nd Round draft picks, come back for their senior year, and - most importantly - become better football players. Eifert and Floyd as blockers, Teo in coverage. Under the previous regime, all three would have been encouraged to go. Instead they became leaders.

The 2011 recruiting class. Most are only starting to bloom, but they proved we can get elite guys at any position, not just the glamor jobs. Followed on with the 2012 - and hopefully 2013 - classes, who look like a bunch of tough winners. Also, letting Aaron Lynch go and not crying about it.

The post-USC brouhaha last year. Yes, it was ugly at the time, but the "Weis guys" who stuck around and learned from that are the rock of this team. Teo, Cave, KLM. Their example will hopefully live on.

Beating Michigan State this year. No, they're not as good as advertised, but going on the road, at night, into a tough stadium and roundly beating a proud Top 10 team was something we hadn't done in a long, long time. Huge confidence-builder.

 

[Irish YJ]

So many factors, but turning point defined when the ship started turning, and staying on course....... the hiring of BK. CWs recruiting class, nice, but not developed. They zigged, and they zagged, but never stayed on course IMO. BK brought grit, recruiting, Diaco, Longo, etc.. and most important, he made the kids believe. Again, lots of factors, but give BK his due.

 

[irishtrain]

Turning point game-OU this year, turning point play Eifert's td catch against Stanford. That'd be my imput. OU was the biggest statement by this program in a long time. The next big thing-a win against a top flight SEC team in a bowl game. Maybe this year. The program has now turned the corner and the players will come. Its why evryone is afraid of a strong Notre Dame. National recruiting. Bigger than any conference when on a roll.

 

[EddytoNow]

The turning point on defense was the commitment of Manti Teo. Manti, the man, has helped to recruit defensive players to a program lacking in defense. Who wouldn't want to play on the same team as Manti?

The turning point on offense began with the emergence of Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate, and Michael Floyd. It is taking longer to develop, but the success of Clausen, Tate, and Floyd encouraged other offensive skill players to consider Notre Dame.

The turning point in coaching took place with the hiring of Brian Kelly, the retention of Tony Alford, and the hiring of assistant coaches who could both recruit and coach. Bob Diaco, Chuck Martin and the other assistants have merged into Kelly's plans seamlessly.

We now have a team mentality and mental toughness that has been lacking since Holtz left.

 

[IrishFBfanatic]

Trick Shot Monday. Period.

 

[Emcee77]

I disagree with all those who say that the commitment of a player or players was a turning point. Recruiting cannot be a turning point unless the coaching was there, but the talent wasn't. Say what you want about holes in Weis's recruiting; I don't think talent was Weis's main problem. Under Weis, we had probably the two best players I've ever seen in a ND uniform, Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate, plus numerous others who got looks in the NFL, and we were still not reliable on offense. Frequent spectacular plays? Yes. Could you count on a big first down when you needed it? No. Look at USC this year. You have a team of five-stars and high four -stars, a team that unquestionably has the talent to compete for NCs, but which is just an above average football team. Look at Manti early in his career ... great athlete, but by his own admission not a great player. It took great coaching to make him a great player.

I think IrishinSyria probably had the best answer to this one, when he said the turning point was whenever we learned to tackle. Now, our defense played pretty well all year last year, so maybe that was spring practice 2011? Not sure. I don't think there was a real turning point you can specify. Diaco and his coaches just kept chopping wood with the defense, and now our defensive players just get it. The message has sunk in.

But even that isn't really a satisfying answer to the question of what the turning point was, because even with a solid D last year we lost a lot of games because our offense was mediocre. The improvement of the D by itself can't be the turning point, as long as the offense is still mediocre. The turning point will be whenever the offense steps up to match the high level performance of the D.

It's too recent to look like the turning point now, but I think in 2 or 3 years if we revisit this convo we'll say that the turning point was the 4th quarter and OT of the Pitt game, when Golson led his first comeback. That was the first time I've seen a QB look like he was in complete command of BK's offense, and he did it in a game in which he had played like total sh!t for the first three quarters. After the third quarter Golson showed heart and determination, he played with confidence, he looked comfortable. We always knew he had the talent, but we didn't know if he could lead us back from 15 points down to gut out an ugly win. Against OU he proved he could avoid beating his own team; against Pitt he proved he could win one. Now we know that we have a QB who has the skill set to effectively run the fullest version of BK's offense, as well as the toughness to lead the team to victory.

To me that's the turning point.

 

[dshans]

Folderol. Poppycock. Claptrap. Blather.

The true turning point:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AssRlsPH578?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A close runner-up was when I decided to join IE, due in large to the escapades of the Doomed Neutered One. Praise or excoriate as you wish, but his poop has made my lawn green and lush.

 

[BurningRiver]

I disagree with all those who say that the commitment of a player or players was a turning point. Recruiting cannot be a turning point unless the coaching was there, but the talent wasn't. Say what you want about holes in Weis's recruiting; I don't think talent was Weis's main problem. Under Weis, we had probably the two best players I've ever seen in a ND uniform, Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate, plus numerous others who got looks in the NFL, and we were still not reliable on offense. Frequent spectacular plays? Yes. Could you count on a big first down when you needed it? No. Look at USC this year. You have a team of five-stars and high four -stars, a team that unquestionably has the talent to compete for NCs, but which is just an above average football team. Look at Manti early in his career ... great athlete, but by his own admission not a great player. It took great coaching to make him a great player.

I agree with you to a point, but I will say this: Manti Te'o's commitment to Notre Dame was as close to a turning point as there comes. Manti may not have changed Notre Dame significantly on the football field (after all, we averaged just over seven wins in his first 3 years here), but his personality is just as responsible for the change in locker room culture as the coaching staff is. Manti was a born leader, and has been as close as a player can possibly become to being a coach out there on the field. I believe he has helped this team form a brotherhood I've never seen on a Notre Dame football team.

Not to mention he's been the face of Notre Dame's defensive resurgence, leading to a culture change that has led to this championship run and hopefully many to come after this year.

Think on this for a second:

We are 10-0 for the first time since 1993.

Would we be 10-0 without the defense? No. What would we be? 5-5? 6-4? 7-3?

Where would this defense be without Manti Te'o?

 

[Emcee77]

I agree with you to a point, but I will say this: Manti Te'o's commitment to Notre Dame was as close to a turning point as there comes. Manti may not have changed Notre Dame significantly on the football field (after all, we averaged just over seven wins in his first 3 years here), but his personality is just as responsible for the change in locker room culture as the coaching staff is. Manti was a born leader, and has been as close as a player can possibly become to being a coach out there on the field. I believe he has helped this team form a brotherhood I've never seen on a Notre Dame football team.

Not to mention he's been the face of Notre Dame's defensive resurgence, leading to a culture change that has led to this championship run and hopefully many to come after this year.

Think on this for a second:

We are 10-0 for the first time since 1993.

Would we be 10-0 without the defense? No. What would we be? 5-5? 6-4? 7-3?

Where would this defense be without Manti Te'o?

I agree with a lot of what you say. Manti's importance to the program cannot be underestimated. We all know what he can do on the field, plus Kelly says Manti is the best leader he has ever coached and a "closer" when recruits come to visit. He has had a profound effect on our program.

This question may turn on what you mean by turning point. I think you only reach the turning point when everything starts pointing in the right direction. A lot of other things, besides Manti and the things he is responsible for, had to come together before we started playing championship-level football. It's not like Manti committed and it was all upwards from there. Until recently I still harbored a few doubts about the offense, and you can't play championship-level football if you are one-dimensional. Now that I have more confidence in the offense, I feel like we have really turned a corner.

 

[BurningRiver]

This question may turn on what you mean by turning point.

Haha at this point in the thread I think you can make turning point mean whatever you want it to mean

 

[EifertPower]

I disagree with all those who say that the commitment of a player or players was a turning point. Recruiting cannot be a turning point unless the coaching was there, but the talent wasn't. Say what you want about holes in Weis's recruiting; I don't think talent was Weis's main problem. Under Weis, we had probably the two best players I've ever seen in a ND uniform, Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate, plus numerous others who got looks in the NFL, and we were still not reliable on offense. Frequent spectacular plays? Yes. Could you count on a big first down when you needed it? No. Look at USC this year. You have a team of five-stars and high four -stars, a team that unquestionably has the talent to compete for NCs, but which is just an above average football team. Look at Manti early in his career ... great athlete, but by his own admission not a great player. It took great coaching to make him a great player.

I think IrishinSyria probably had the best answer to this one, when he said the turning point was whenever we learned to tackle. Now, our defense played pretty well all year last year, so maybe that was spring practice 2011? Not sure. I don't think there was a real turning point you can specify. Diaco and his coaches just kept chopping wood with the defense, and now our defensive players just get it. The message has sunk in.

But even that isn't really a satisfying answer to the question of what the turning point was, because even with a solid D last year we lost a lot of games because our offense was mediocre. The improvement of the D by itself can't be the turning point, as long as the offense is still mediocre. The turning point will be whenever the offense steps up to match the high level performance of the D.

It's too recent to look like the turning point now, but I think in 2 or 3 years if we revisit this convo we'll say that the turning point was the 4th quarter and OT of the Pitt game, when Golson led his first comeback. That was the first time I've seen a QB look like he was in complete command of BK's offense, and he did it in a game in which he had played like total sh!t for the first three quarters. After the third quarter Golson showed heart and determination, he played with confidence, he looked comfortable. We always knew he had the talent, but we didn't know if he could lead us back from 15 points down to gut out an ugly win. Against OU he proved he could avoid beating his own team; against Pitt he proved he could win one. Now we know that we have a QB who has the skill set to effectively run the fullest version of BK's offense, as well as the toughness to lead the team to victory.

To me that's the turning point.

I agree completely about the 4th quarter against Pitt being the turning point. It would have been so typical of Notre Dame to lose that game and any ND team over the past 18 years would have lost that game. And some of the good fortune we had in that game, (Eifert's pass interference and Pitt's missed fg) I felt finally made things even after years of ridiculous heartbreaking defeats (see Michigan 2011, Tulsa 2010, Michigan State 2010, Bush Push, Uconn 2009, Syracuse 2007, etc.).

 

[DillonHall]

I agree completely about the 4th quarter against Pitt being the turning point. It would have been so typical of Notre Dame to lose that game and any ND team over the past 18 years would have lost that game. And some of the good fortune we had in that game, (Eifert's pass interference and Pitt's missed fg) I felt finally made things even after years of ridiculous heartbreaking defeats (see Michigan 2011, Tulsa 2010, Michigan State 2010, Bush Push, Uconn 2009, Syracuse 2007, etc.).

Let's not over-generalize. 2009 Washington was very, very similar to this year's Pitt game...not to mention some of the amazing comebacks in 2006.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think the turning point was the Florida State game. It was a tough loss that once again showed how our mistakes and turnovers cost us much...then we learned to LOVE THE PAIN in the offseason! Just kiddin'

I think the turning point was bringing in Kelly. I'll give credit to Weis though. He set a nice foundation of players and brought recruiting back...however I think many of the players he brought in were somewhat arrogant and had inflated egos. They were sold on a path to the NFL, and many took it. Those that stayed were humbled, then bought into Kelly's approach. It took a few years to change the culture, but Kelly was able to gain some momentum after years of mistakes and lost focus, namely poor defense. It's starting to click now, heres hoping the trend continues.

 

[IrishLion]

I know this thread has been dead for a few days, but I saw an interesting article on ESPN that reminded me of this, and was actually something I had though about but never posted.

The Butterfly Effect: Notre Dame edition - Notre Dame Football Blog - ESPN

Being a UC fan second only to ND, I was very aware/familiar with the scenario in '09 that played out the last week. I was excited when I saw Texas ran out of time, realizing UC would be headed to the national championship. At the same moment, I realized ND would probably not get Brian Kelly, which was what I cared about more.

As much as I would've loved to see that UC offense in the championship, I wanted ND to hire Brian Kelly just a little bit more. It was bittersweet, but in the end I preferred ND to have a championship coach over UC having a shot at a championship.

In my mind, rooting heavily for UC but much moreso for Notre Dame and thus being aware of both scenarios, the turning point of this program was Suh getting to McCoy too quickly. It allowed BK to make an easy decision in coming to ND, which resulted in a coach arriving that put his first emphasis on building a championship defense.

 

[ickythump1225]

Let's not over-generalize. 2009 Washington was very, very similar to this year's Pitt game...not to mention some of the amazing comebacks in 2006.

Yes but what were we playing for in 2009? Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. To beat OU, a potential program changing win, and then lose to Pitt would demoralizing. It could have undone a lot of the work we've done this season. That win was the stuff of legend.

 

[ickythump1225]

I know this thread has been dead for a few days, but I saw an interesting article on ESPN that reminded me of this, and was actually something I had though about but never posted.

The Butterfly Effect: Notre Dame edition - Notre Dame Football Blog - ESPN

Being a UC fan second only to ND, I was very aware/familiar with the scenario in '09 that played out the last week. I was excited when I saw Texas ran out of time, realizing UC would be headed to the national championship. At the same moment, I realized ND would probably not get Brian Kelly, which was what I cared about more.

As much as I would've loved to see that UC offense in the championship, I wanted ND to hire Brian Kelly just a little bit more. It was bittersweet, but in the end I preferred ND to have a championship coach over UC having a shot at a championship.

In my mind, rooting heavily for UC but much moreso for Notre Dame and thus being aware of both scenarios, the turning point of this program was Suh getting to McCoy too quickly. It allowed BK to make an easy decision in coming to ND, which resulted in a coach arriving that put his first emphasis on building a championship defense.

I read a very similar article:
Think BK is the right man for the job now? Thank Jamie Pollard.

 

[Irish To The Core]

For me, the key turning point was Coach Kelly's hiring. Kelly came in and surveyed the situation, and formulated his plan. He communicated his vision from day one. He brought in assistants he knew would be loyal and capable. He could have hired a bigger name than Diaco as defensive coordinator. He hired the guy he knew was on the same page (and who was awesome too). He knew Luongo was a dynamic guy who could guarantee results. All of his hires have been home runs. Then he set about establishing the "culture" that has been central to all of this success.

He is a winner. He is an excellent communicator and motivator. He knows how to delegate and more importantly, he judges the character of his assistants extremely well. He gives his loyalty to the program and inspires loyalty in his staff and in the players.

It took awhile to get 100% buy in, but he never flinched, never questioned his philosophy.

One interesting thing that we have learned about Kelly is how adaptable he is. The spread offense which had been his trademark prior to coming to ND has been adapted to the unique circumstances he has found here. He runs more of a hybrid system here b/c the defense can be counted on to contain the opposing offense. He is not so arrogant that he says "My spread is the way we play, damn the torpedoes...".

Anyway, Kelly's hire = the turning point in my opinion.

 

[IrishLion]

Much appreciated, I always enjoy a good history lesson.

I payed close attention to Kelly at CMU; loved Antonio Brown under BK as a frosh and loved Dan LeFevour especially (I was amped when the Bengals signed LeFevour, but he never really got a chance to play, even in preseason). I knew he was in line to fill the vacancy Dantonio left at UC, but had no idea ISU was also interested.

 

[Old Man Mike]

The turning point was when Zork the Gruntled, who had already invented laundry, tore the bladder out of a dead groundsloth, blew it up, and began kicking it around the cave. The game developed slowly due to Zork's inability to clarify to the poorly attentive recruits that they must kick the bladder around not one another.

Ultimately Zork gave up and allowed the recruits to grab and run with the bladder while being kicked and ultimately thrown to the ground [the word "takkkle" was invented to mimic the sound the players made while rolling down the flint chip cliffs].

The game finally evolved into a less deadly pastime with the arrival of a larger headed cave-dweller nicknamed the "New Rockny". This man suggested that you throw the bladder to someone else before you get smeared down the takkkle slope.

All this was destroyed by an asteroid in 300,000BC, and it took a long time to uncover the lost principles. But here we are.

What a charming story... and TRUE, too!!! I read it on the Internet!!

 

[IrishLion]

"Only a fool believes everything he reads on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Old Man Mike]

Lincoln's right. I don't. Why I read a Lincoln quote on the Internet recently that I didn't believe. .... So I'm OK .... really.