Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

NDohio

Well-known member
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
3,061
After listening to the II podcast it sounds highly likely that Kelly will be back next year. One thing they mentioned which I would like to see is make Sanford your OC 100%. Meaning he calls the plays.

I definitely want to see one coach be the guy that dictates the personality of the offense. I don't think the 3 headed brain trust(BK/Denbrock/Sanford) has been a success. Give one of them the power to be the boss and have the others fall in line. I'm good with it being Sanford. I would like to see how good he is/isn't.
 

NDohio

Well-known member
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
3,061
I wouldn't say "murdered", but Michigan did keep it close by controlling the line of scrimmage. Then Meyer turned Barrett loose, Michigan abandoned the QB spy tactic that had worked so well, and it was all over. Penn State beat OSU by winning the LOS, as well.

FIFY
 

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
Best YPC last year for a team that ran as much as we did, best "well blocked" run rate. Prosise and Adams dominated... I think we did well showcasing it.

I agree with what you're saying, they look at RZ play calling and hate shotgun; or anecdotal plays where we "can't get a tough yard against a stacked box" and equate that to "OL sucks." The problem is scheme, not the OL play. You'll notice in the USC game we for the first time (ever? this season?) just got up to the line with an athletic QB and snuck it in for the yard we needed. People wonder where that's been. And why the hell we haven't gone under center at all the past few years to get more effective downhill running and stuff and I get that... but that is not the same thing as the OL playing poorly.

The repeated and unfounded OL criticism is becoming a bit of a ND trope.
What I'm hearing you say is "MOAR FULLBACKZ!"
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,017
Reaction score
5,055
What I'm hearing you say is "MOAR FULLBACKZ!"

Make Ruhland a fullback and whoever between Kraemer and Eichenberg doesn't start. Isn't that what they did with Bars and Nelson last year? Nelson started so Bars was the extra linemen when they did end up going with that package?
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
I watched the Ohio State game this past weekend and their Oline got murderd against Michigan. Kirk mentioned that there RT was consistently getting beat on a regular basis throughout the season. It's not as bad as your making it out to be.

You can pick a couple games where TOSU didn't own the LOS.... You and I both know there are just as many where OSU owned the LOS against good teams over the last few years, or at least held their own. I can pick one I know real well...

Pick some where ND owned the LOS against a conference champion or playoff contender in the last couple years...

ND has been blessed with some serious talent at skill positions...and some games against pretty inferior talent.

The Oline isn't horrible, but they aren't great.
 

NDRock

Well-known member
Messages
7,489
Reaction score
5,448
FO has a stat called power success rate which is a percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown.

Year Rate Rank
2016 76% 20
2015 67% 58
2014 69% 44

Those are the only years they have been tracking for CFB as far as I know.

The other complaint is "big chunks" versus steady " 3 yards and a cloud of dust". Well, FO tracks this too (sort of) with stuff rate - percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage.

Year Rate Rank
2016 17% 31
2015 21% 87
2014 18% 42

Irony is that 2015 was the worst year for the metric, which also highlights that the running success of that team was based on explosiveness and that was lacking this year and in 2014. This can distort our view. That is why this final stat is needed to tie it all together.

Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when five yards are available) that gain at least five yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.

Year Rate Rank
2016 41% 48
2015 45% 4
2014 43% 24

Not sure there is much more to say......

What do the stats say about our OL regarding pass blocking?
 

ScooterIrish

New member
Messages
523
Reaction score
36
You can pick a couple games where TOSU didn't own the LOS.... You and I both know there are just as many where OSU owned the LOS against good teams over the last few years, or at least held their own. I can pick one I know real well...

Pick some where ND owned the LOS against a conference champion or playoff contender in the last couple years...

ND has been blessed with some serious talent at skill positions...and some games against pretty inferior talent.

The Oline isn't horrible, but they aren't great.

OSU and ND have different schemes though...
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
OSU and ND have different schemes though...

Yea...but you still gotta handle on coming defenders within the time and space...shrug. You still gotta "stick" to your blocks long enough, or recognize stunts, and not end up with a free tackler. You still gotta not jump the snap count (that issue goes back a ways btw) , and at times you need to simply move the man in front of you.

The Oline did pretty well in pass pro BTW, said so multiple times this year.
 

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
What do the stats say about our OL regarding pass blocking?

best measure is opponent adjusted sack rate - An opponent-adjusted version of a team's sack rate -- sacks divided by (sacks plus passes), presented on a scale in which 100 is perfectly average, above 100 is good, below 100 is bad.

2016 - Ranked 95th - 85.2
2015 - Ranked 56th - 104.7
2014 - Ranked 30th - 130.7

Not a great trend here and highlights the difficulties we saw this year.

Then there is the raw sacks.

Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.
Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts.

(Standard downs are first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer.)

Passing:
2016 - Ranked 27th - 5.4%
2015 - Ranked 64th - 7.4%
2014 - Ranked 94th - 9.2%

Standard:
2016 - Ranked 122nd - 9.0%
2015 - Ranked 88th - 6.2%
2014 - Ranked 5th - 1.5%
 

IrishBroker

New member
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
50
I wouldn't say "murdered", but Michigan did keep it close by controlling the line of scrimmage. Then Meyer turned Barrett loose, and it was all over. Penn State beat OSU by winning the LOS, as well.

uhhh...no.

UM owned the line all day. Even late. The ONLY reason OSU wins that game are the two turnovers by UM in their own redzone, one a pick 6.

Otherwise, UM wins 17-3.

Only in OT, did Barrett do anything of note. He was ineffective and pressured all day.
 

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
uhhh...no.

UM owned the line all day. Even late. The ONLY reason OSU wins that game are the two turnovers by UM in their own redzone, one a pick 6.

Otherwise, UM wins 17-3.

Only in OT, did Barrett do anything of note. He was ineffective and pressured all day.

17-9 (have to acknowledge the missed chip shots if you bring up TO), but agree with everything else.
 

IrishBroker

New member
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
50
You can pick a couple games where TOSU didn't own the LOS.... You and I both know there are just as many where OSU owned the LOS against good teams over the last few years, or at least held their own. I can pick one I know real well...

Pick some where ND owned the LOS against a conference champion or playoff contender in the last couple years...

ND has been blessed with some serious talent at skill positions...and some games against pretty inferior talent.

The Oline isn't horrible, but they aren't great.

I agree...
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
uhhh...no.

UM owned the line all day. Even late. The ONLY reason OSU wins that game are the two turnovers by UM in their own redzone, one a pick 6.

Otherwise, UM wins 17-3.

Only in OT, did Barrett do anything of note. He was ineffective and pressured all day.

I never said that OSU ever controlled the line. Yes, Michigan controlled the LOS in the second half as well. But, despite that, Barrett ran for 112 yards on 15 carries in the 2nd half alone. THAT'S what I meant by Meyer "turning Barrett loose".
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,650
Reaction score
20,129
You'll notice in the USC game we for the first time (ever? this season?) just got up to the line with an athletic QB and snuck it in for the yard we needed.

Not the first time this year. I'm drawing a blank on the other game, but to your point you are correct, it's rare when we do. We do not utilize the talents of the line to run the ball. We've done it a few times the past 3-4 years and when we do, we have success. Throw a FB back there once in a while and run iso. Wear that D-line down some, then run outside and see those tired puppies try to catch up.
 

Domina Nostra

Well-known member
Messages
6,251
Reaction score
1,388
Not the first time this year. I'm drawing a blank on the other game, but to your point you are correct, it's rare when we do. We do not utilize the talents of the line to run the ball. We've done it a few times the past 3-4 years and when we do, we have success. Throw a FB back there once in a while and run iso. Wear that D-line down some, then run outside and see those tired puppies try to catch up.

Kelly used Kizer in short yardage and close to the end zone a lot last year.
 

Cali_domer

Banned
Messages
3,569
Reaction score
296
What record next year will get Kelly fired? I bet if he makes it to 8-5 he will safe for awhile.
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,017
Reaction score
5,055
Anything less than 10 wins would leave Kelly looking for a job. Hell he needs to be top 5 to stay.
 

Cali_domer

Banned
Messages
3,569
Reaction score
296
Anything less than 10 wins would leave Kelly looking for a job. Hell he needs to be top 5 to stay.
No way, if the admin excepts the chaos of this season they're all in with him. 10 wins ain't happening next year, 8 wins is highly likely and I bet he'll be back because of the awesome improvement(Double the wins!). Can't disrupt the recruiting or the "foundation" Kelly has laid.
 
Last edited:

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,017
Reaction score
5,055
No way, if the admin excepts the chaos of this season they're all in with him. 10 wins ain't happening next year, 8 wins is highly likely and I bet he'll be back because of the awesome improvement(Double the wins!). Can't disrupt the recruiting or the "foundation" Kelly has laid.

Do you have inside info on that? Because I have none, but Jack can't keep his job if he allows Kelly to be even mediocre next year and return.
 

IrishBroker

New member
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
50
I never said that OSU ever controlled the line. Yes, Michigan controlled the LOS in the second half as well. But, despite that, Barrett ran for 112 yards on 15 carries in the 2nd half alone. THAT'S what I meant by Meyer "turning Barrett loose".

That was mostly due to pocket breaking down and him having to scramble.

Urban didn't turn him loose...his own Oline did. LOL
 

Cali_domer

Banned
Messages
3,569
Reaction score
296
Do you have inside info on that? Because I have none, but Jack can't keep his job if he allows Kelly to be even mediocre next year and return.
No inside info, but look what they have turned a blind eye to this year. I will say I have evidence that they're content winning 8 games a year. Perfect storm for change, stadium renovation needing new excitement(, need fundraising,don't care, Kelly is our man), probation(no matter if it is all on him or not it is an embarrassment), 4-8 record, and just horrible play calling all year. But the admin says nothing, they truly believe we're in a good spot.
 
Last edited:

BabyIrish

Marble Mouth
Messages
2,842
Reaction score
728
You can pick a couple games where TOSU didn't own the LOS.... You and I both know there are just as many where OSU owned the LOS against good teams over the last few years, or at least held their own. I can pick one I know real well...

Pick some where ND owned the LOS against a conference champion or playoff contender in the last couple years...

ND has been blessed with some serious talent at skill positions...and some games against pretty inferior talent.

The Oline isn't horrible, but they aren't great.

So the two teams that were worth any type of threat to OSU, and they struggled losing one and shoulda lost the other one. By your standards, there Oline was not great this year, but yet your using them as an example of why they are dominant. They weren't at all this year especially if we apply your standards.
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,017
Reaction score
5,055
No inside info, but look what they have turned a blind eye to this year. I will say I have evidence that they're content winning 8 games a year. Perfect storm for change, stadium renovation needing new excitement(, need fundraising,don't care, Kelly is our man), probation(no matter if it is all on him or not it is an embarrassment), 4-8 record, and just horrible play calling all year. But the admin says nothing, they truly believe we're in a good spot.

Alrighty, then I'll take a bet for vbucks that if Kelly wins 8 games next year, he'll be fired.
 

Cali_domer

Banned
Messages
3,569
Reaction score
296
Alrighty, then I'll take a bet for vbucks that if Kelly wins 8 games next year, he'll be fired.
I'll give you everything I have. If he makes it to 8 wins he will be here next year. If wrong you owe me nothing, because I will be happy. But ND admin I suspect will disappoint again.
 

Wingman Ray

Banned
Messages
1,578
Reaction score
110
What I cannot understand is why ND's OL isnt better than it is. I mean, ND has some serious talent on the OL. Much better than most of CFB yet ND doesnt dominate ever. Even against teams like Navy that they outweigh by 50 lbs+ a man. I dont get it. Everyone talks like HH is the beesknees yet the guys dont ever really produce when it comes to dominating the run.
 

zelezo vlk

Well-known member
Messages
18,017
Reaction score
5,055
I'll give you everything I have. If he makes it to 8 wins he will be here next year. If wrong you owe me nothing, because I will be happy. But ND admin I suspect will disappoint again.

I'm sure I'll forget about this bet, but I'll wager everything and pay if he's here after an 8 win season next year.
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
So the two teams that were worth any type of threat to OSU, and they struggled losing one and shoulda lost the other one. By your standards, there Oline was not great this year, but yet your using them as an example of why they are dominant. They weren't at all this year especially if we apply your standards.

Guess this is a tough concept...

lets try it this way...

Which Oline was better in big games in the last 3 years?
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
That was mostly due to pocket breaking down and him having to scramble.

Urban didn't turn him loose...his own Oline did. LOL

You just said that Michigan dominated the LOS all game long, including in the second half. Now you are saying that the OSU O Line did a great job of blocking to allow Barrett to gain 100+ yards in one half? Which is it? His success running the ball in the 2H, from what I saw, was the result of him waiting until the rushers got upfield and some gaps opened up, and then exploiting those gaps. It seemed like he was trying to stay in the pocket and keep looking for receivers to come open, in the first half.
 
Top