USC recruiting and everything else

PANDFAN

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I don't know man... hiring him at ND is just begging for a scandal down the road. He's a shady character, much like Tosh.

i think it is the culture there though that encourages it and well when he was coaching in the sec.....he is usually the guy bringing in the home run hitters

i realize there would be little to no chance of him coming here, but elite recruiter, coaches well and the players love him...
 
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koonja

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How isn't Orgeron the next Hoke...

I was thinking the same thing.

If our two biggest rivals are led by this guy:

Ed-Orgeron.jpg


And this guy:

bradyhoke-thumb-590x422-70489.jpg


I can live with that.
 

Bluto

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I was thinking the same thing.

If our two biggest rivals are led by this guy:

Ed-Orgeron.jpg


And this guy:

bradyhoke-thumb-590x422-70489.jpg


I can live with that.

I find it strange that people trash talk Hoke on this site. He has pretty much owned ND in the win loss column while Kelly has been here. Just sayin, those in glass houses and what not.
 
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koonja

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I find it strange that people trash talk Hoke on this site. He has pretty much owned ND in the win loss column while Kelly has been here. Just sayin, those in glass houses and what not.

With how great of a job Michigan and USC are, if we have two relatively unproven coaches leading the way, I'll take that. That's all I'm saying.

And Hoke is living off of a bunch of late game heroics by DG this year. That team could very well be .500 right now.

We've had our fair share of luck over this year and last, but he's playing coin flip games against inferior teams with inferior talent, and getting very lucky IMO to have a winning record.

Akron should have been a loss, NW should have been a loss, Uconn was a toss up.

He's not a great coach.
 

IrishLax

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I find it strange that people trash talk Hoke on this site. He has pretty much owned ND in the win loss column while Kelly has been here. Just sayin, those in glass houses and what not.

That has what relevance to the fact that he is a bad coach that further does very little actual coaching and relies almost entirely on his coordinators/assistants to do everything?
 

irishog77

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That has what relevance to the fact that he is a bad coach that further does very little actual coaching and relies almost entirely on his coordinators/assistants to do everything?

Or that being 2-1 in 3 toss-up games isn't really "owning" anybody.
 

Irish#1

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I find it strange that people trash talk Hoke on this site. He has pretty much owned ND in the win loss column while Kelly has been here. Just sayin, those in glass houses and what not.

With the exception of this year, the games Hoke has won against Kelly haven't been because of superior coaching. The Denard Robinson "let me throw up a couple of falling ducks and see what happens" game at AA is a prime example. That game was lost by extremely poor play by our secondary.
 

Bluto

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That has what relevance to the fact that he is a bad coach that further does very little actual coaching and relies almost entirely on his coordinators/assistants to do everything?

Again, his teams have beaten ND two out of the last three years. Pretty good for such a bad coach. If he's so terrible what does that say about the coaching staff that lost to him twice in three years? Also, all the "we lost that game because of bad QB play, ect..." arguments could just as easily be applied to why Michigan lost to ND last year and why Michigan isn't getting it done this year. I could really care less about who coaches Michigan or USC. What I do care about is whether or not ND beats them, particularly when you consider the fact that ND has had just as much talent on the roster the past couple years as either team. In summation (haha) a little humility should be the order of the day in my opinion, particularly considering ND lost this year
 
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Bluto

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Or that being 2-1 in 3 toss-up games isn't really "owning" anybody.

Last year was basically a "toss up" as well with Michigan having six turnovers. They play a clean game and.... This year was not really a "toss up". They kicked ND's ass in the first half (27 -13) and almost let the Irish back into the game.
 
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woolybug25

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I find it strange that people trash talk Hoke on this site. He has pretty much owned ND in the win loss column while Kelly has been here. Just sayin, those in glass houses and what not.

Exactly. Regardless of whether he's a good coach, he's kicked our ass consistently.

We also don't play UM for many years after next season. So they aren't one of our "biggest rivals" going forward. You can't be a rival of a team you never play against. They WERE a rival.
 

ulukinatme

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I would argue that our 2-1 record against Michigan is less to do with great coaching from Hoke and his staff, and more to do with failures to adjust by our staff and some poor fundamentals from our defense.

By all accounts we were absolutely destroying Michigan in 2011 before we had a 4th quarter meltdown and decided to go conservative. That was a decision by the coaching, and it didn't help we weren't watching for the ball in the air.

While the score was low, we again destroyed Michigan last year with no real heroics required.

This year Michigan did dominate most of the game, but I felt like we came in with a poor strategy of trying to stop the run, when Gardner and Gallon were the real threat. We failed to adjust to Gallon's receiving, and did a horrible job tackling him at that. This year's Michigan team is obviously beatable, much lesser teams have proven they could go toe to toe with them. Thats kind of why I feel our loss this year had less to do with Hoke being superior, and more to do with poor execution and game plan on our side.

This guy is not a genius:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cPxPSzz0LBY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Emcee77

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Michigan is going away. I'm more concerned with SC frankly.

Hoke is a Bob Davie level coach. I think a two-loss regular season is the best UM will get under him, and there will be some real stinkers mixed in.
 

IrishLax

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Again, his teams have beaten ND two out of the last three years. Pretty good for such a bad coach. If he's so terrible what does that say about the coaching staff that lost to him twice in three years? Also, all the "we lost that game because of bad QB play, ect..." arguments could just as easily be applied to why Michigan lost to ND last year and why Michigan isn't getting it done this year. I could really care less about who coaches Michigan or USC. What I do care about is whether or not ND beats them, particularly when you consider the fact that ND has had just as much talent on the roster the past couple years as either team. In summation (haha) a little humility should be the order of the day in my opinion, particularly considering ND lost this year

Again, I fail to see what this singular anecdotal stat says at all about his coaching ability. I think the bolded is the better question. How did we manage to lose two games to this team? In one, the team was dominating Michigan before 5 turnovers caught up with them. The Tommy "little hands" fumble will always be a cringe worthy moment to me. And still... we effectively won the game, until that epic final seconds implosion. This year was more about horrible coaching/scheme than anything else, IMO. Remember, this game was followed up by a squeaker over one of the worst teams in the country... I think it says a lot more about the state of the ND team than about the Michigan team being "good."

Michigan, in turn, has gone 3-3 in the Big Ten and is tied for 2nd to last in their half of the conference. They also needed a miracle to escape Akron, had a squeaker over UCONN, etc. outside of their shaky in conference performances. The team is not good, despite having more talent than just about anyone in that dreadful conference, and that is a result of horrid coaching. Every year since Brady Hoke has been at Michigan they've gotten progressively worse. The first year was 11-2... then came 8-5 with some very competitive games against quality opponents in those 5 losses... and now they're staring at likely 7-5 (5 point underdog to Iowa, and as much as Ohio State struggles on D at times I don't see how Michigan wins that game) or 8-4 with a tough bowl game on tap.

There is no evidence... not at his previous coaching stops, where he compiled a sub .500 overall record, nor in his current employment where he does practically 0% of the actual coaching... that Brady Hoke is a good coach. In short, regardless of his record against ND, I'm happy Michigan is in the hands of someone who has such little chance of ever bringing a championship to Michigan even with how easy their schedules are moving forward.
 

Emcee77

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Bravo, Lax. I totally agree, and I'll add that we want Michigan to be bad because we frequently recruit against them for Midwestern kids who are interested in a school with great football tradition and good academics (though at UM they won't get the benefit of those good academics).
 

irishpat183

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I would argue that our 2-1 record against Michigan is less to do with great coaching from Hoke and his staff, and more to do with failures to adjust by our staff and some poor fundamentals from our defense.

By all accounts we were absolutely destroying Michigan in 2011 before we had a 4th quarter meltdown and decided to go conservative. That was a decision by the coaching, and it didn't help we weren't watching for the ball in the air.

While the score was low, we again destroyed Michigan last year with no real heroics required.

This year Michigan did dominate most of the game, but I felt like we came in with a poor strategy of trying to stop the run, when Gardner and Gallon were the real threat. We failed to adjust to Gallon's receiving, and did a horrible job tackling him at that. This year's Michigan team is obviously beatable, much lesser teams have proven they could go toe to toe with them. Thats kind of why I feel our loss this year had less to do with Hoke being superior, and more to do with poor execution and game plan on our side.

This guy is not a genius:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cPxPSzz0LBY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL....Denard gave us that game. We couldn't do shit on offense and Denard did his best to hand it too us. Come on. Just be honest. We didn't destroy shit. They actually outplayed us in just about every category.
 

Irish#1

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Again, I fail to see what this singular anecdotal stat says at all about his coaching ability. I think the bolded is the better question. How did we manage to lose two games to this team? In one, the team was dominating Michigan before 5 turnovers caught up with them. The Tommy "little hands" fumble will always be a cringe worthy moment to me. And still... we effectively won the game, until that epic final seconds implosion. This year was more about horrible coaching/scheme than anything else, IMO. Remember, this game was followed up by a squeaker over one of the worst teams in the country... I think it says a lot more about the state of the ND team than about the Michigan team being "good."

Michigan, in turn, has gone 3-3 in the Big Ten and is tied for 2nd to last in their half of the conference. They also needed a miracle to escape Akron, had a squeaker over UCONN, etc. outside of their shaky in conference performances. The team is not good, despite having more talent than just about anyone in that dreadful conference, and that is a result of horrid coaching. Every year since Brady Hoke has been at Michigan they've gotten progressively worse. The first year was 11-2... then came 8-5 with some very competitive games against quality opponents in those 5 losses... and now they're staring at likely 7-5 (5 point underdog to Iowa, and as much as Ohio State struggles on D at times I don't see how Michigan wins that game) or 8-4 with a tough bowl game on tap.

There is no evidence... not at his previous coaching stops, where he compiled a sub .500 overall record, nor in his current employment where he does practically 0% of the actual coaching... that Brady Hoke is a good coach. In short, regardless of his record against ND, I'm happy Michigan is in the hands of someone who has such little chance of ever bringing a championship to Michigan even with how easy their schedules are moving forward.

I watched the UM/UConn game and UConn gave it away with TO's late in the game. Hoke did a very nice job at Ball State.
 

ulukinatme

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LOL....Denard gave us that game. We couldn't do shit on offense and Denard did his best to hand it too us. Come on. Just be honest. We didn't destroy shit. They actually outplayed us in just about every category.

Yeah, we didn't move the ball on offense, but I certainly wouldn't say they moved the ball much better. 6 turnovers is ridiculous, it's a wonder people complain about Tommy throwing the ball. To go along with that, Michigan had a big goose egg on the scoreboard at the start of the 4th quarter. While our lack of offensive production certainly didn't seal the game for us, momentum was in our court all night and in the stands it felt like things were going to go our way. No matter what Michigan did with the ball it ended badly for them, so from a defensive standpoint we certainly destroyed them. We imposed our will on Denard and shut him down for once. If it wasn't for his little scrambles when plays broke down, Michigan would have racked up a whopping 200 yards of total offense.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Michigan, in turn, has gone 3-3 in the Big Ten and is tied for 2nd to last in their half of the conference. They also needed a miracle to escape Akron, had a squeaker over UCONN, etc. outside of their shaky in conference performances. The team is not good, despite having more talent than just about anyone in that dreadful conference, and that is a result of horrid coaching. Every year since Brady Hoke has been at Michigan they've gotten progressively worse. The first year was 11-2... then came 8-5 with some very competitive games against quality opponents in those 5 losses... and now they're staring at likely 7-5 (5 point underdog to Iowa, and as much as Ohio State struggles on D at times I don't see how Michigan wins that game) or 8-4 with a tough bowl game on tap.

But that can all be just as easily explained by having to switch the program from RichRod's spread to a power team, to go along with common depth issues inherited. Just like no one says 2007 was Weis' fault, I don't see 2013 as Hoke's fault.

I think they lack a QB for their system and the interior of their line is too young to get it done in the Big Ten. In fairness to them, their division of the Big Ten is the tougher one, every team in the division is bowl eligible except Northwestern, and Northwestern is a tough team to beat this season.

I think it all depends on how the programs moves next season. That's where he'll either go the Weis route or prove he's a capable coach. I personally think he's a fine coach.

There is no evidence... not at his previous coaching stops, where he compiled a sub .500 overall record,

That's like judging Brian Kelly solely on his Central Michigan years. Hoke did have to build those programs from the bottom up. San Diego State was 2-10 the year before Hoke, and 9-4 (and even better than the record showed, they were very solid) two years later.

nor in his current employment where he does practically 0% of the actual coaching... that Brady Hoke is a good coach.

Well ~0% sounds like it can't possibly be true. Don't get me wrong, Greg Mattison wears the pants there (if Diaco got a job elsewhere, throw a blank check at him..), but some guys just coach coaches, a la John Cooper.

In short, regardless of his record against ND, I'm happy Michigan is in the hands of someone who has such little chance of ever bringing a championship to Michigan even with how easy their schedules are moving forward.

In even shorter, fuck Michigan.
 

PANDFAN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23UCLA&src=hash">#UCLA</a> WR Shaq Evans: ``To go out there and beat them at their house would pretty much verify we run this town now,'' <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a></p>— InsideUSC (@InsideUSC) <a href="https://twitter.com/InsideUSC/statuses/405765702260256768">November 27, 2013</a></blockquote>
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phork

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23UCLA&src=hash">#UCLA</a> WR Shaq Evans: ``To go out there and beat them at their house would pretty much verify we run this town now,'' <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23USC&src=hash">#USC</a></p>— InsideUSC (@InsideUSC) <a href="https://twitter.com/InsideUSC/statuses/405765702260256768">November 27, 2013</a></blockquote>
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