TURF - it's official

[Rocket89]

lol best conspiracy ever

This caring about the playing surface is a kind of stupid unique to ND, with the slavish devotion to keeping things the same whether those things actually constitute "tradition" or not. I don't have any personal preference on the playing surface, but at least I understand the arguments in favor of turf. There are no good arguments for grass other than stubbornness and perhaps a misplaced sense of tradition (which we all like and appreciate) or weird fetishization of grass.

Grass itself is not a tradition. Things aren't tradition just because they've always been a certain way. Tradition requires the additional ingredients of choice and purpose. Clinging to a grass surface would be like clinging to dirt road and objecting to them ever being paved. Tradition is cool insofar as it doesn't prevent progress and making things better. Grass is no more tradition than dirt roads once were.

The whole idea of William F Buckley conservatism in the context of college football (mindlessly standing athwart history and yelling "STOP!") is misplaced, and I get the feeling that people don't realize they're doing more harm than good.

Preach on.

We can't talk about this topic without bringing up the fact that the grass has been a problem for decades. Really, it's always been a "problem" when set in context of being a stable, consistent, and attractive playing surface--especially in relation to warmer weather teams.

I've found that when you talk to some older people who don't seem to care much about the surface that they are willing to admit the grass has sucked for as long as they can remember. There's a group that wants to romanticize how beautiful the grass used to be and that this is a modern problem under Swarbrick/Jenkins/Kelly but that just isn't true at all. I was recently doing some work and came across the 1973 game against USC. Go ahead and YouTube that game from 10/27/73. It's ten times worse than what we saw this past spring during the BG Game. In fact, part of the reason the field crew started painting the end zones and mid-field was to try and cover up the embarrassing lack of grass.

I can understand that someone like wizards8507 finds some sort of comfort, or tradition, or meaning in a grass field. I don't agree with that POV at all--mostly because our grass is complete junk and not worthy of any praise--but I can at least understand it. But to think this is a conspiracy (and to be fair it's not just wizards who thinks this) to make the field look bad to sell the installation of field turf is really ridiculous.

The Truthers (for a lack of a better term) will do anything to sell their agenda on this topic. I mean for the love of God we're two+ years into a campaign by ACross to sell the conspiracy that Notre Dame neglected the field over the past decade and had no intention of keeping the natural grass. Don't worry about the several projects working down to the top soil in recent years or the numerous re-sodded projects. Never happened. The school doesn't like taking $1 million baths because they obviously don't care about maintaining the field correctly, right?

It's just crazy the lengths people will go.

 

[connor_in]

40 days!

Holy Crap! There's a GREAT FLOOD coming?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[IrishLion]

See that's the kind of shit I'm talking about. If someone said that "fake grass is an affront to the Virgin Mary," then by all means call them out. The hyperbole you're presenting mischaracterizes the general feeling among those who prefer grass as irrational and, frankly, ridiculous.

Just trying to have some fun Wiz. I understand your stance, and it has nothing to do with the countless crazies on NDNation or on the ND Facebook page. I was simply making a mockery of the overboard beliefs, as you mention. Not trying to mischaracterize anyone, as I thought was clear in my over-the-top approach...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I can't think of one single player that ever crashed into the wall in decades of watching games.

Do tubas count?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Its a balancing act.

ND distinguishes itself by its traditions. Like it or not, that sets us apart and is a big selling point with the recruits. I will mock the NDNation people for thier groupdthink, but I think they do well to be loud voice in favor of tradition.

IMO, we should maintain as much tradition as we can, until we think we are losing some competitive advantage or unless the cutting edge stuff is clearly superior.

A small, but good illustration: we don't need to be wearing leather helmets, or single bar helmets. We don't think twice about using whatever is the best when it comes to equipment.

On the other hand, when it comes to appearances, we should maintain a classic look and maintain the old school brand, like the Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, Raiders, Crimson Tide, etc.

So I was all for maintainting grass, but the grass just wasn't gettgin it done. Maybe they could have figured it out, but with a surface that seems readymade for a climate like S. Bend that players like, I have no problem moving on...

 

[Grahambo]

TURF - it's official

Its a balancing act.



ND distinguishes itself by its traditions. Like it or not, that sets us apart and is a big selling point with the recruits. I will mock the NDNation people for thier groupdthink, but I think they do well to be loud voice in favor of tradition.



IMO, we should maintain as much tradition as we can, until we think we are losing some competitive advantage or unless the cutting edge stuff is clearly superior.



A small, but good illustration: we don't need to be wearing leather helmets, or single bar helmets. We don't think twice about using whatever is the best when it comes to equipment.



On the other hand, when it comes to appearances, we should maintain a classic look and maintain the old school brand, like the Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, Raiders, Crimson Tide, etc.



So I was all for maintainting grass, but the grass just wasn't gettgin it done. Maybe they could have figured it out, but with a surface that seems readymade for a climate like S. Bend that players like, I have no problem moving on...

The Yankees play in a new stadium. The Staples Center is 15 years old. Boston plays in a stadium built in the mid-90s. Montreal Canadiens play in the Bell Centre which opened in the mid-90s.

Even the most iconic teams change and upgrade. Notre Dame should be, and they're not, no different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GoldenDomer]

I have seen a thousand players crash into the band, never the wall though.

 

[ulukinatme]

How could someone look at the field in 2013 and the Spring Game this year and still make comments like that?

1. Not everyone sees "less then perfect green" as an atrocity to be solved.

2. The spring game was made to intentionally look as bad as possible to justify this.

lol best conspiracy ever

Obviously Purdue is either in on the conspiracy too (They were probably paid off by Savy Jack, the bastard!), or they're trying to force the same change we did because their field was just as bad as ours was this year! /noitalics

The conspiracy theories make me laugh even more

 

[ulukinatme]

I have seen a thousand players crash into the band, never the wall though.

We need to pad the band members before they hurt our players!

 

[GoldenDomer]

"Giants Stadium" with field turf. Looks awesome.

 

[mtnd15]

I went onto the field after the BYU game because it was senior day, (even though I wasn't a senior) and the field was so bad it was hard to believe. The TV doesn't do it justice. It felt like I was in a sand pit. NO players should be subjected to those conditions.

 

[gkIrish]

"Giants Stadium" with field turf. Looks awesome.

Might not be the best example to use considering we lost to Navy by like 80 on that field.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Might not be the best example to use considering we lost to Navy by like 80 on that field.

I have enough good memories there to make up for it

 

[gkIrish]

We need to pad the band members before they hurt our players!

11 posts left till you hit 5,000. Courtesy reminder. (I missed mine and have been really pissed ever since)

 

[gkIrish]

I have enough good memories there to make up for it

Lol. I was at that game (and every other Navy loss) and was pretty miserable. But go field turf!!

 

[wizards8507]

Obviously Purdue is either in on the conspiracy too (They were probably paid off by Savy Jack, the bastard!), or they're trying to force the same change we did because their field was just as bad as ours was this year! /noitalics

I have pictures, too. From Penn State's spring game:

Just because Notre Dame (and Purdue, apparently) sucks at turf management doesn't mean that turf cannot be managed.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I have pictures, too. From Penn State's spring game:

Just because Notre Dame (and Purdue, apparently) sucks at turf management doesn't mean that turf cannot be managed.

Do you mean grass? Is Penn State still doing grass?

 

[tko]

Sadly, the powers that be refused to allow the golf course super to take care of the stadium grass. Instead they continued to treat the living piss out of it with every pesticide under the sun, destroying any possibility of strong root growth. The grass never stood a chance.

 

[wizards8507]

Do you mean grass? Is Penn State still doing grass?

Yes. Grass is turf.

 

[wizards8507]

Sadly, the powers that be refused to allow the golf course super to take care of the stadium grass. Instead they continued to treat the living piss out of it with every pesticide under the sun, destroying any possibility of strong root growth. The grass never stood a chance.

Is that for real? If so, that really pisses me off. I think a large percentage of the people who are "all in" for the artificial surface are under the false impression that we'd already tried everything under the sun to "get grass right" and that it was just impossible. Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case.

If the decision was between "shitty grass" and "artificial turf," I'd be as pro-artificial-turf as the next guy. In reality, that's a false distinction because "quality grass" was an option we didn't even bother with.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Yes. Grass is turf.

When I think turf I think field turf. What Notre Dame is installing.

 

[wizards8507]

When I think turf I think field turf. What Notre Dame is installing.

The picture from Penn State is living breathing grass. I said "turf" because "turf management" is the name of the science involved in maintaining it.

 

[Grahambo]

I have pictures, too. From Penn State's spring game:

Just because Notre Dame (and Purdue, apparently) sucks at turf management doesn't mean that turf cannot be managed.

Yes, because Penn State is a cornerstone for excellence. (Yes, I'm being a smartass.)

 

[wizards8507]

Update: It doesn't look like they got anything done last night.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We'll that was anti-climactic <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SameAsILeftIt?src=hash">#SameAsILeftIt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurfWatch?src=hash">#TurfWatch</a> <a href="http://t.co/TEmcf59njn">pic.twitter.com/TEmcf59njn</a></p>— Christianne Harder (@CNHarder) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNHarder/statuses/491587991987822592">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[Bogtrotter07]

This fall I am over-seeding with a deep root system. Will seed again in the spring. I have deep hard clay. I will never have good grass. I could spend 20k on a sprinkler system, and another 5K on water, fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides, and what would I have?

A shitty lawn with a much larger carbon footprint! I would have to dig down, add French drains, (gravel), top soil and change the grade of my yard to nominally fix my problems.

Saying that greens keepers could solve a stadium problem is half-logic. I have know a lot of good golf course technicians. I know one of the greatest golf course designers (marginally). And I will tell you the rolling acreage of a golf course and the problems of a flat several acre expanse, surrounded on all sides by a concrete structure are not remotely the same!

People talk about the millions required for a proper drainage system; but what about the huge concrete structures that surround the playing field (stadium structure)? The environmental changes in temperature alone are nearly prohibitive.

And for sports fans that are interested, the weather in Happy Valley is a bit different than in South Bend.

 

[gkIrish]

I have pictures, too. From Penn State's spring game

Difference is that our field will ALWAYS look as good (and much better) as this:

.

and NEVER as bad as this:

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Endzone oasis at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>. From <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeRaymond52">@JoeRaymond52</a> <a href="http://t.co/UyYy58Hlsz">pic.twitter.com/UyYy58Hlsz</a></p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/491603077225394176">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[tko]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Endzone oasis at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>. From <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeRaymond52">@JoeRaymond52</a> <a href="http://t.co/UyYy58Hlsz">pic.twitter.com/UyYy58Hlsz</a></p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/491603077225394176">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Talk dirty PANDFAN

 

[Irish#1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Endzone oasis at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>. From <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeRaymond52">@JoeRaymond52</a> <a href="http://t.co/UyYy58Hlsz">pic.twitter.com/UyYy58Hlsz</a></p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/491603077225394176">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Too bad we couldn't afford to cover the entire field. Maybe we can get the other end zone done next year. lol

 

[ResLife Hero]

looking good:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Another shot of <a href="https://twitter.com/FieldTurf">@FieldTurf</a> being installed at Notre Dame Stadium today. SBT Photo/ROBERT FRANKLIN <a href="http://t.co/TsMybeohHG">pic.twitter.com/TsMybeohHG</a></p>— Robert Franklin (@TheRobFranklin) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRobFranklin/statuses/491607818231758849">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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