Trump Presidency

[IrishLax]

Where is the thread for the entire summer season of rioting, pillaging, burning, and killing when the entire democratic party went silent and even opened up funding to free domestic terrorists?

There’s a thread called Police State USA with a couple thousand posts in it that is dedicated to debating both sides of the policing situation in the United States. There are also several other threads where ANTIFA, BLM, political correctness, etc. are discussed.

For example, here is a snippet from my post in Police State USA discussing the protests:

If you're focusing on ANTIFA... where everyone who isn't a far leftist shill agrees that they're, at minimum, bad actors and at worst domestic terrorists... instead of why this all started, then I think we're losing the big picture.

I called them bad actors and domestic terrorists. If anyone on this site has defended ANTIFA, I haven’t seen it. So I know you haven’t been here a long time, but this is certainly not a “left wing” place. It’s in fact been overwhelmingly right leaning over the years. In my youth, I was VP of Young Republicans at my high school and worked on a Virginia Republican gubernatorial campaign (that we won). That’s why I still have some friends in GOP politics and have made the posts I’ve made before the ‘16 and ‘20 elections.

The simplest way I can put this is that Trump redefined paradigms. Same thing applies to pretty much all of my friends from ND — they were overwhelmingly conservative and only one voted for Obama and maybe two tops voted for Clinton yet this time around I polled our group chat and only one person voted for Trump and everyone else Biden. A lot of people are just really sick of the lies and what we consider unpresidential conduct... other people love his antics and think Trump is the best... some people don’t care and vote policy.

But this thread — and really this site as a whole — has mostly been pro-Trump over the past four years. It doesn’t look it right now because a lot of the loudest pro-Trump people disappeared after the election and a lot of anti-Trump people are outraged with what is currently transpiring.

 

[NorthDakota]

Alexa, whats the definition of Seditious Conspiracy?

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

Not seeing where Donald comes into the equation. As far as I remember from criminal law class, a conspiracy requires there to be:
1. an agreement between two or more individuals to commit a crime, and;
2. One of the parties acts in furtherance of that crime.

I haven't reviewed my notes or textbook on that subject in several months but I recall that being the point. Got to work on a conspiracy case this summer, was kinda fun.

If I say "this bartender at the Old Broadway sucks, he's a soft douche who hits on my girlfriend all the time" and so on, but also say "let's go to the Old Broadway this weekend" and my friends key his car...thats not a conspiracy. If it was, that'd be very problematic.

I dont know all of what Donald said, I didn't watch his speech. But it the things you cited were the statements you were relying on, I dont know if that even gets to a jury. Who knows though, again, zero knowledge of federal case law on the statute and some statutes literally have entire courses you can take on them and still not have a super deep understanding of.

There are plenty of statutes on the books that might work, but if they are using the same definition of conspiracy that I think is common throughout the states, I dont think that dog will hunt.

Thanks for finding the statute though. Law can be fun sometimes. Watch one of the actuall attorneys come and shred my analysis now lmaooooo.

 

[NorthDakota]

You’re just on the wrong side of this, man. And it’s unfortunate. It’s gotta be hard, I give you credit, always having to double down and carry on the big lie. But I mean, I don’t really care much for your attitude and all that, I’m not going to lie, but I do hope you come to a realization one day that you’re on the wrong side of al this stuff. That 5,000 lb gorilla off your shoulders of always having to rationalize and find excuses and come up with whataboutisms will just go away and it will feel amazing. Read the book On Tyranny by Michael Snyder.

I'm wrong on plenty of things but I'm 100% confident in that post. That wasn't remotely edgy or controversial.

From your answer you'd think I said "a bunch of guys attacking the capitol is fine for the following reasons..." I am pretty sure in one post I said none of them could have been surprised if they had been shot. On one hand, happy the loss of life was limited, but on the other, minimal casualties can embolden bad actors. This was a terrible idea and whatever happens to them, I hope it's bad.

 

[Sea Turtle]

There’s a thread called Police State USA with a couple thousand posts in it that is dedicated to debating both sides of the policing situation in the United States. There are also several other threads where ANTIFA, BLM, political correctness, etc. are discussed.

For example, here is a snippet from my post in Police State USA discussing the protests:

I called them bad actors and domestic terrorists. If anyone on this site has defended ANTIFA, I haven’t seen it. So I know you haven’t been here a long time, but this is certainly not a “left wing” place. It’s in fact been overwhelmingly right leaning over the years. In my youth, I was VP of Young Republicans at my high school and worked on a Virginia Republican gubernatorial campaign (that we won). That’s why I still have some friends in GOP politics and have made the posts I’ve made before the ‘16 and ‘20 elections.

The simplest way I can put this is that Trump redefined paradigms. Same thing applies to pretty much all of my friends from ND — they were overwhelmingly conservative and only one voted for Obama and maybe two tops voted for Clinton yet this time around I polled our group chat and only one person voted for Trump and everyone else Biden. A lot of people are just really sick of the lies and what we consider unpresidential conduct... other people love his antics and think Trump is the best... some people don’t care and vote policy.

But this thread — and really this site as a whole — has mostly been pro-Trump over the past four years. It doesn’t look it right now because a lot of the loudest pro-Trump people disappeared after the election and a lot of anti-Trump people are outraged with what is currently transpiring.

But you weren't 'outraged' over what was occurring for months on end. Do you see the difference in tone from what you posted then and what you and several others have posted since yesterday?

It's kind of like the reverse with us. Those people yesterday were bad actors and domestic terrorists and should be prosecuted as such. But it just doesn't have the same tone as you.

You want us to be outraged. We've been outraged for 6-8 months. It kind of loses its fire after awhile.

Toronto says ' a police officer was killed you fucking noron'. And that is a horrible thing.

But didn't several police offers get killed and several hundred police officers injured over the summer? Don't they count too? Was Toronto calling everyone a fucking moron about anyone who tried to rationalize or make excuses about ANTIFA or BLM for months on end? No, that gets saved for when a police officer gets killed during a Trump march riot. He seems ok with antifa TRYING to blind people or burn them up, so as long as they eventually regain their eyesight I guess.

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People being considered for pardons on January 19, per Bloomberg:<br>— Donald Trump<br>— Mark Meadows<br>— Stephen Miller<br>— John McEntee<br>— Dan Scavino<br>— Ivanka Trump<br>— Jared Kushner <br>— Rudy Giuliani<br>— Kimberly Guilfoyle<br>— Albert Pirro<br>— Lil Wayne<br>— Kodak Black<a href="https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf">https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf</a></p>— Gabe Fleisher (@WakeUp2Politics) <a href="https://twitter.com/WakeUp2Politics/status/1347313021111201792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Never before seen levels of corruption. Trump wasn't content just to pardon child murderers and criminals he employed, he now wants to pardon himself and his family for crimes they committed while in office.

Anyone want to explain to me how this fits with "law and order" or "draining the swamp"?

 

[BilboBaggins]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People being considered for pardons on January 19, per Bloomberg:<br>— Donald Trump<br>— Mark Meadows<br>— Stephen Miller<br>— John McEntee<br>— Dan Scavino<br>— Ivanka Trump<br>— Jared Kushner <br>— Rudy Giuliani<br>— Kimberly Guilfoyle<br>— Albert Pirro<br>— Lil Wayne<br>— Kodak Black<a href="https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf">https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf</a></p>— Gabe Fleisher (@WakeUp2Politics) <a href="https://twitter.com/WakeUp2Politics/status/1347313021111201792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Never before seen levels of corruption. Trump wasn't content just to pardon child murderers and criminals he employed, he now wants to pardon himself and his family for crimes they committed while in office.

Anyone want to explain to me how this fits with "law and order" or "draining the swamp"?

Sadly all he has to do it say "the justice system is rigged and the radical democrats will use the power they've stolen in the very stolen election to launch another witch hunt, so I am using the very beautiful and very terrific power of the Presidency to pardon my fellow patriots."

And then 45% of Republicans will fall in line and bishop et al will say they don't know anyone who supports this and North Dakota will say he wasn't really paying attention and in general they'll dig up some whataboutisms.

 

[NorthDakota]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People being considered for pardons on January 19, per Bloomberg:<br>— Donald Trump<br>— Mark Meadows<br>— Stephen Miller<br>— John McEntee<br>— Dan Scavino<br>— Ivanka Trump<br>— Jared Kushner <br>— Rudy Giuliani<br>— Kimberly Guilfoyle<br>— Albert Pirro<br>— Lil Wayne<br>— Kodak Black<a href="https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf">https://t.co/4yT4JYmuEf</a></p>— Gabe Fleisher (@WakeUp2Politics) <a href="https://twitter.com/WakeUp2Politics/status/1347313021111201792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Never before seen levels of corruption. Trump wasn't content just to pardon child murderers and criminals he employed, he now wants to pardon himself and his family for crimes they committed while in office.

Anyone want to explain to me how this fits with "law and order" or "draining the swamp"?

Depends...are they being pardoned because they committed crimes or are they being pardoned to avoid an an angry Dem DOJ prosecuting nonsensical crimes to get their pound of flesh?

Its not a secret the election of Donald Trump made folks nuts. Some left, some right. Well guess who will be in charge of DOJ now...

But yeah, under any circumstance the optics are bad and there really isn't a way around that

 

[Sea Turtle]

Depends...are they being pardoned because they committed crimes or are they being pardoned to avoid an an angry Dem DOJ prosecuting nonsensical crimes to get their pound of flesh?

Its not a secret the election of Donald Trump made folks nuts. Some left, some right. Well guess who will be in charge of DOJ now...

But yeah, under any circumstance the optics are bad and there really isn't a way around that

Comesaid that Biden needs to make it clear to his DOJ not to pursue anything against Trump or family and allies. I thought that was interesting.

 

[IrishLax]

Depends...are they being pardoned because they committed crimes or are they being pardoned to avoid an an angry Dem DOJ prosecuting nonsensical crimes to get their pound of flesh?

Its not a secret the election of Donald Trump made folks nuts. Some left, some right. Well guess who will be in charge of DOJ now...

But yeah, under any circumstance the optics are bad and there really isn't a way around that

This is the tricky part, because the pardon won't be for a specific crime. He'd have to write it to say "my daughter is pardoned for literally any crime she may or may not have committed in her entire life"... I would bet that is legally enforceable, because Presidential pardon power is absolute and not subject to any checks/balances, but I don't think there is case of someone pardoning for an uncharged/unknown crime and having it challenged.

Whether he can pardon himself is a crazy constitutional question because certainly no one has ever tried it. What's even trickier is that if he pardons himself then he can't plead the 5th which means he could be compelled to give truthful testimony on the crime he pardoned himself for... and if he lies, that's perjury/obstruction. If he tells the truth, the crime could also be chargeable at the state level depending on what it is.

 

[ulukinatme]

Depends...are they being pardoned because they committed crimes or are they being pardoned to avoid an an angry Dem DOJ prosecuting nonsensical crimes to get their pound of flesh?

Its not a secret the election of Donald Trump made folks nuts. Some left, some right. Well guess who will be in charge of DOJ now...

But yeah, under any circumstance the optics are bad and there really isn't a way around that

That's kind of where I'm at. If there were actual crimes committed, they should be prosecuted. If there's a witch hunt to appease a mob, a pardon may be necessary. To date there's been nothing concrete that's stuck to Teflon Don. There are people out there that just want them locked up because...they said things they didn't like? Reasons? Trump made some veiled threats about prosecuting Hillary over the e-mail cover up, but he let that all go after being sworn in. I think Biden will do the same and push for "healing" as he's said, but I wonder if that vocal minority isn't going to continue to demand their "justice."

 

[IrishLax]

That's kind of where I'm at. If there were actual crimes committed, they should be prosecuted. If there's a witch hunt to appease a mob, a pardon may be necessary. To date there's been nothing concrete that's stuck to Teflon Don. There are people out there that just want them locked up because...they said things they didn't like? Reasons? Trump made some veiled threats about prosecuting Hillary over the e-mail cover up, but he let that all go after being sworn in. I think Biden will do the same and push for "healing" as he's said, but I wonder if that vocal minority isn't going to continue to demand their "justice."

Well, he's immune from prosecution while President, and the DOJ has been working for him, so it's hard to know what would or wouldn't stick if he could be charged by someone who wanted to charge him with something. Biden has clearly stated his intention not to prosecute Trump... but it seems clear that, at minimum, New York is going to go after him for tax fraud. He would likely have similar federal tax fraud exposure. Anything beyond that would be a wild guess, no one knows what he has or hasn't done as President that would give him exposure.

 

[Wild Bill]

Trump needs to be removed from office now.

He's got another week or so and then you can start the healing process. You seem stable so it should only take a few decades with the right team of shrinks.

 

[NorthDakota]

He's got another week or so and then you can start the healing process. You seem stable so it should only take a few decades with the right team of shrinks.

Lmaooo wild bill's ability to roll in and throw a grenade on occasion is golden

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick died early this morning. He died from injuries sustained from being crowned by a fire extinguisher.

Also saw that a Kennesaw Ga woman was trampled to death though not corroborated at this time.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Well, he's immune from prosecution while President, and the DOJ has been working for him, so it's hard to know what would or wouldn't stick if he could be charged by someone who wanted to charge him with something. Biden has clearly stated his intention not to prosecute Trump... but it seems clear that, at minimum, New York is going to go after him for tax fraud. He would likely have similar federal tax fraud exposure. Anything beyond that would be a wild guess, no one knows what he has or hasn't done as President that would give him exposure.

Don't forget he's an unindicted co-conspirator in a few Mueller report cases.IIRC the campaign finance and obstruction of justice cases. But who knows what Bill Barry did to those cases.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEWS: Betsy DeVos has resigned, writing in a letter to the president: "There is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had on the situation, and it is the inflection point for me." <a href="https://t.co/Kiq4WwbKhh">https://t.co/Kiq4WwbKhh</a></p>— Rebecca Ballhaus (@rebeccaballhaus) <a href="https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1347361238645436416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Trump’s bullshit too much for even Betsy DeVos now. Second cabinet member to resign in past 24 hours among a handful of other administration officials who are disgusted by what they saw yesterday.

they are resigning because they don't want to have to be involved in impeachment.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Scrolling through Facebook and there are an alarming amount of comments amounting to "Congress is the one unfit to serve! They are the ones who need to be removed!!" on various news articles.

Pretty sad that the so-called conservatives here do not recognize that sizeable and growing portion of this country who would trade in a functioning democracy for authoritarianism at a moment's notice. They don't even hide it.

 

[DCDomer]

Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick died early this morning. He died from injuries sustained from being crowned by a fire extinguisher.

Also saw that a Kennesaw Ga woman was trampled to death though not corroborated at this time.

Blue = Backed

 

[dublinirish]

Scrolling through Facebook and there are an alarming amount of comments amounting to "Congress is the one unfit to serve! They are the ones who need to be removed!!" on various news articles.

Pretty sad that the so-called conservatives here do not recognize that sizeable and growing portion of this country who would trade in a functioning democracy for authoritarianism at a moment's notice. They don't even hide it.

the amount of people who claim antifa were responsible for storming the capitol is just unfathomable. are people really that stupid?

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Well this just might be the wildest shit I’ve seen all day, and that’s saying something <a href="https://t.co/szx0vwUDbD">pic.twitter.com/szx0vwUDbD</a></p>— Eric Haywood (@EricHaywood) <a href="https://twitter.com/EricHaywood/status/1347337775520079874?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Scrolling through Facebook and there are an alarming amount of comments amounting to "Congress is the one unfit to serve! They are the ones who need to be removed!!" on various news articles.

Pretty sad that the so-called conservatives here do not recognize that sizeable and growing portion of this country who would trade in a functioning democracy for authoritarianism at a moment's notice. They don't even hide it.

Authoritarianism is the last response for angry American white people. The have adopted Nazis, Confederates and ignorant Q imbeciles (actually sought them out and coalesced them) into a voting population. They have no where else to go. They cant go any lower as these groups of people are as low as you can get and violence is their only outlet.

 

[IrishRazor82]

the amount of people who claim antifa were responsible for storming the capitol is just unfathomable. are people really that stupid?

Well, there is at least 1. Pictured, named, and arrested during the summer riots and again two days ago in the capital.

John Earle Sullivan, a self identified ANTIFA member of Utah, was arrested and charged in July 2020 for a BLM riot where at least one person was killed. He was arrested two days ago for breaking into the capitol building.

So we don't know if this is isolated or part of a larger organization that will become clearer in the weeks to come, but it'd be great if people didn't jump to conclusions like they know everything, only to move on with no accountability if it doesn't shake out to be their gut reaction guess.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On the morning of Jan. 6, Ginni Thomas—wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas—endorsed the protest demanding that Congress overturn the election, then sent her “LOVE” to the demonstrators, who violently overtook the Capitol several hours later. She has not posted since. <a href="https://t.co/378CHMkFN5">pic.twitter.com/378CHMkFN5</a></p>— Mark Joseph Stern (@mjs_DC) <a href="https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1347395084527017985?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Ginni Thomas. Traitor wife to Clarence.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Well, there is at least 1. Pictured, named, and arrested during the summer riots and again two days ago in the capital.

John Earle Sullivan, a self identified ANTIFA member of Utah, was arrested and charged in July 2020 for a BLM riot where at least one person was killed. He was arrested two days ago for breaking into the capitol building.

So we don't know if this is isolated or part of a larger organization that will become clearer in the weeks to come, but it'd be great if people didn't jump to conclusions like they know everything, only to move on with no accountability if it doesn't shake out to be their gut reaction guess.

The only appropriate response is holding Benghazi-like congressional hearings to see if Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, et al are actually ANTIFA. /s

 

[dublinirish]

Well, there is at least 1. Pictured, named, and arrested during the summer riots and again two days ago in the capital.

John Earle Sullivan, a self identified ANTIFA member of Utah, was arrested and charged in July 2020 for a BLM riot where at least one person was killed. He was arrested two days ago for breaking into the capitol building.

So we don't know if this is isolated or part of a larger organization that will become clearer in the weeks to come, but it'd be great if people didn't jump to conclusions like they know everything, only to move on with no accountability if it doesn't shake out to be their gut reaction guess.

he wasn't charged nor arrested with anything and claims he was there as an observer.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1...first-to-try-and-enter-house-chamber-sullivan

Either way, unlikely he was an instigator and he actually claims to have footage of shooting of the woman who later died.

 

[IrishRazor82]

he wasn't charged nor arrested with anything and claims he was there as an observer.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1...first-to-try-and-enter-house-chamber-sullivan

Either way, unlikely he was an instigator and he actually claims to have footage of shooting of the woman who later died.

Thank you for clarifying he wasn't actually arrested. The report I'm reading says he was "part of the capitol seige on 1/6". I took that to mean arrested, but perhaps he wasn't? He should be (anyone who stepped foot in should be).

But my point is we don't know anything about the cluster of people inside. Some were probably red neck hillbillies, some were probably organized, some were apprently ANTIFA?

We should let this get sorted out before we decide we know it was this or that definitely. That's a fool's game.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No one defunded the Capitol police! They have a $515M budget! It was raised for this fiscal year! <a href="https://t.co/hlEVGN3oyX">https://t.co/hlEVGN3oyX</a></p>— Josh Billinson (@jbillinson) <a href="https://twitter.com/jbillinson/status/1347285027076386817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[dublinirish]

Thank you for clarifying he wasn't actually arrested. The report I'm reading says he was "part of the capitol seige on 1/6". I took that to mean arrested, but perhaps he wasn't? He should be (anyone who stepped foot in should be).

But my point is we don't know anything about the cluster of people inside. Some were probably red neck hillbillies, some were probably organized, some were apprently ANTIFA?

We should let this get sorted out before we decide we know it was this or that definitely. That's a fool's game.

But until there is proof, these claims are false so its unethical to propose and share this misinformation

 

[arahop]

Authoritarianism is the last response for angry American white people. The have adopted Nazis, Confederates and ignorant Q imbeciles (actually sought them out and coalesced them) into a voting population. They have no where else to go. They cant go any lower as these groups of people are as low as you can get and violence is their only outlet.

This.

 

[IrishRazor82]

But until there is proof, these claims are false so its unethical to propose and share this misinformation

I provided more detail about a person that entered the capitol than anything I've seen alleged here.

I agree we should hold for proof but that goes every which way, and that is not what's happening in this thread. It's kind of embarrassing but I can tell this is a far left leaning site so I'm just trying to kindly point that out.

I hope we can be friends.