Trump Presidency

[Irish#1]

For me ( and Im not being adversarial to you but attempting to expand on your post) ...this is the whole crux of the impeachment process. The process is dependent upon an honor system. The system relies on men of honor dutifully serving the country and not protecting their own party (COUNTRY OVER PARTY). The Democrats are rightfully bringing these high crimes and impeachment articles to the Senate IMO (and in the opinion of many people smarter than me). I will challenge anyone to argue that what Trump fomented ( and aided and abetted by Junior, Guilliani and right wind extremists groups) WASN'Tt a crime against our country, but of course the burden of proof is on the House managers now). I would expect if the shoe were on the other foot the GOP would have done the same and I would also expect Dems to side with the country and our principles rather than preserving the party and minimizing political damage.

I honestly think a lack of conviction will not be becasue the GOP looked honestly at the evidence and determined no high crime against the country took place, but rather they will look at it and determine its in their party's best interest to not convict. This is a huge problem IMO. The fact that witnesses in the insurrection and seditious activities fomented by their own party leader are being required to vote for or against the leader of their own party and honestly evaluate the evidence is a major honor confliction.

There are some very important aspects to our republic that are being stress tested here. This admin has stressed our system more than anything before. I can only hope this duty is undertaken with honor but after seeing that path 45 GOP Senators took yesterday....eh it seems preservation of the party is more important with only Romney, Collins, Murkowski, Toomey and Sasse siding with the Dems on Paul's motion to dismiss on lack of constitutionality. No we already have 45 GOP on the record voting against the fundamental nature of the proceedings. They will not now all of a sudden look at the evidence and decide..."hmmmm yep he is guilty".

And for anyone minimizing this event as not sedition or insurrection, it is appearing more and more daily the DOJ will be bringing charges of sedition and conspiracy to overthrow the government to people involved in this event.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This guy (Daniel Beck) says several senators, Don Jr, Rudy, etc attended a January 5 pre-Insurrection meeting at Trump International Hotel.<br><br>Unreal.<br><br>No wonder they don’t want to have an impeachment trial... <a href="https://t.co/4Y0YrxRFgz">pic.twitter.com/4Y0YrxRFgz</a></p>— Rex Chapman���� (@RexChapman) <a href="https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1354303258131574786?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sorry about the source but I couldnt find another video. This guy claims he caucused with Giuliani, Lindell, Jr. Kim Guilfoyle and several SENATORS on Jan 5th. about the insurrection on the 6th.

I didn't hear a word about insurrection in that video.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I didn't hear a word about insurrection in that video.

OK???? The point is the march was clearly coordinated and several Senators along with Trumps son, his lawyer and biggest supporter and numerous attendees discussed what was going to happen the day before. I cant help you understand or accept this or follow all the obvious evidence and clear indications of the intent. I mean if you want to hide your head in the sand I cant help that. I cant help you see that the insurrection on Janury6 was a well coordinated, well funded attempt to overthrow the election at Trumps behest and direction. I cant help you understand that there was coordination and help from GOP Senators and Representatives. I accept that you wont ever accept these facts.

 

[NorthDakota]

You'd need a lot more proof than meetings to really have the "well-funded and well-coordinated insurrection" thing stick.

Is it outlandish for people to meet before rallies/marches to coordinate or discuss?

If I go to the March for Life next year, and meet up with Senator Hoeven, get a tour, maybe even lunch...and the next day at the March, me and some crazies start a riot and try to go behead congressional opponents of the pro-life movement, will you be stomping your feet about John Hoeven helping to coordinate and perhaps the Diocese of funding my attack?

 

[Irish#1]

OK???? The point is the march was clearly coordinated and several Senators along with Trumps son, his lawyer and biggest supporter and numerous attendees discussed what was going to happen the day before. I cant help you understand or accept this or follow all the obvious evidence and clear indications of the intent. I mean if you want to hide your head in the sand I cant help that. I cant help you see that the insurrection on Janury6 was a well coordinated, well funded attempt to overthrow the election at Trumps behest and direction. I cant help you understand that there was coordination and help from GOP Senators and Representatives. I accept that you wont ever accept these facts.

Cack, you are so narrowly and emotionally focused you can't see the forest for the trees. Go back and see where I said I supported the rioting and or supported Trump's actions or lack of action. Call it a failed insurrection, failed riot, failed coup or Civil War II. I don't care.

My point is you posted that clip from Rex Chapman who says this guy sat in on meetings about an insurrection and uses this clip as proof. Yet this guy never mentioned anything about an insurrection. I'm supposed to take Chapman's tweet as gospel? You like to point out that Trump supporters are like sheep or cattle being herded, but what you're doing is the same thing, just a different herd. I will let the process play out and see what evidence is presented before I would ever take some guy tweeting some generalities as absolute proof. I'll go put my head back in the sand now. After all, if I can't see it, it didn't happen, right?

 

[IrishRazor82]

Cack you've gone off the deep end bad. Just look at how emotionally charged, one sided and illogical you've been in this thread. This is why there's a new term called TDS and you have it as bad as I've seen. I can't even keep up with the outrageous claims you're making in this thread.

Take a step back brother. It seems like you got sucked into the hole.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Listen guys... I cant post every single line of evidence in every single post every single day every single time I try to make a point. That isn't the ONLY evidence, its another piece that confirms there was a well coordinated effort to stop the certification of the election and it was promoted, pushed, egg-on, and incited to violent action by your party leaders. Sorry if that hurts. Sorry if you feel you have been touched inappropriately. Im just sorry about the refusal to accept what happened and Im sorry you feel the need to deflect, minimize and otherwise not accept this to make your self feel better. I shouldn't be the target of your ire... your GOP party leaders who did this should be.

Also Irish#1 I posted in the Rex Chapman tweet that I was sorry for the source becasue I KNEW someone would bitch and moan about it.. lol .... but at the time I couldn't find another copy readily. Well now its all over the place so go pick your source that will not upset you so much. It doesn't really matter who posted it anyway. Could have been Fox News. It doesn't change one bit the content and what was in it.... which was that a group of protester's met with Giuliani, Lindell, Junior and several Senators the evening before about what was planned for the next day. These weren't Dem Senators either lol.

Talk about being dug in and narrow minded. I cant post one factual thing without bringing out the Trump defenders en masse. Its weird. It was insurrection and sedition inscited by your party leader. Figure it out.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Listen guys... I cant post every single line of evidence in every single post every single day every single time I try to make a point. That isn't the ONLY evidence, its another piece that confirms there was a well coordinated effort to stop the certification of the election and it was promoted, pushed, egg-on, and incited to violent action by your party leaders. Sorry if that hurts. Sorry if you feel you have been touched inappropriately. Im just sorry about the refusal to accept what happened and Im sorry you feel the need to deflect, minimize and otherwise not accept this to make your self feel better. I shouldn't be the target of your ire... your GOP party leaders who did this should be.

Also Irish#1 I posted in the Rex Chapman tweet that I was sorry for the source becasue I KNEW someone would bitch and moan about it.. lol .... but at the time I couldn't find another copy readily. Well now its all over the place so go pick your source that will not upset you so much. It doesn't really matter who posted it anyway. Could have been Fox News. It doesn't change one bit the content and what was in it.

AOC is that you?

Just kidding man.

 

[Irish#1]

Listen guys... I cant post every single line of evidence in every single post every single day every single time I try to make a point. That isn't the ONLY evidence, its another piece that confirms there was a well coordinated effort to stop the certification of the election and it was promoted, pushed, egg-on, and incited to violent action by your party leaders. Sorry if that hurts. Sorry if you feel you have been touched inappropriately. Im just sorry about the refusal to accept what happened and Im sorry you feel the need to deflect, minimize and otherwise not accept this to make your self feel better. I shouldn't be the target of your ire... your GOP party leaders who did this should be.

Also Irish#1 I posted in the Rex Chapman tweet that I was sorry for the source becasue I KNEW someone would bitch and moan about it.. lol .... but at the time I couldn't find another copy readily. Well now its all over the place so go pick your source that will not upset you so much. It doesn't really matter who posted it anyway. Could have been Fox News. It doesn't change one bit the content and what was in it.... which was that a group of protester's met with Giuliani, Lindell, Junior and several Senators the evening before about what was planned for the next day. These weren't Dem Senators either lol.

Talk about being dug in and narrow minded. I cant post one factual thing without bringing out the Trump defenders en masse. Its weird. It was insurrection and sedition inscited by your party leader. Figure it out.

Cack,
I'm going to let this go after this, but you still missed my point. I never said they didn't meet. It wouldn't matter to me if that tweet had come from Fox, Hannity, Limbaugh, Reuters, MSNBC or NYT or WaPo, or it was Obama, not Trump. I would still ask the same question. No where in that clip did that guy say they met and talked about an overthrow, insurrection, coup, etc. He said he sat in on a meeting. And who is this guy anyway? Too much BS floating around in social media. Everyone tries to slant it so they can say, "See, I told you so". I'll also remind you that I didn't vote for Trump and have been on his case as much as I've supported some of his initiatives.

 

[Blazers46]

Thinking along the same lines of Rudy and Powell being sued by Dominion, I think it would be great theatre to see Trump sue every politician for uttering his name with insurrection. He has lost business deals, he can prove financial loss, the evidence against him is very very cirumstanstancial.

 

[GoIrish41]

Thinking along the same lines of Rudy and Powell being sued by Dominion, I think it would be great theatre to see Trump sue every politician for uttering his name with insurrection. He has lost business deals, he can prove financial loss, the evidence against him is very very cirumstanstancial.

I think he should sue the government and state his case in a court of law.

 

[TorontoGold]

Thinking along the same lines of Rudy and Powell being sued by Dominion, I think it would be great theatre to see Trump sue every politician for uttering his name with insurrection. He has lost business deals, he can prove financial loss, the evidence against him is very very cirumstanstancial.

Yes, totally, he should sue people who have said bad things about him. I mean, he's never once disparaged someone or said something like "Obama committed treason".

 

[NorthDakota]

Yes, totally, he should sue people who have said bad things about him. I mean, he's never once disparaged someone or said something like "Obama committed treason".

I's gonna say something along those lines lol

 

[Irish#1]

Yes, totally, he should sue people who have said bad things about him. I mean, he's never once disparaged someone or said something like "Obama committed treason".

There would be so many, he might go bankrupt again just filing all of the lawsuits!

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

That racist birther thing was pretty cool too.

 

[dublinirish]

look at this amadán

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He says North Dakota, where his grandfather was a mayor, is nearby. He’s standing in Cheyenne, Wyoming. His grandfather was mayor of a town more than 700 miles away—roughly the distance from Pensacola to “nearby” Cincinnati. <a href="https://t.co/BCVNBdAPIR">https://t.co/BCVNBdAPIR</a></p>— Jonathan Allen (@jonallendc) <a href="https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1354931233189457929?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">GOP state lawmakers have moved to impose new restrictions on mail-in voting for future elections in Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania — battleground states that were fiercely contested in the 2020 election with record numbers of early and mail-in voters <a href="https://t.co/fbzF8eMuYt">https://t.co/fbzF8eMuYt</a></p>— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1355175376151064582?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Republican chair of Arizona's state House Ways and Means Committee has introduced a bill that would grant the legislature the ability to revoke the sec. of state's certification of election results at any time before the presidential inauguration. <a href="https://t.co/cYf0ee4GXt">https://t.co/cYf0ee4GXt</a></p>— NBC News (@NBCNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1354982620455694340?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

When the GOP loses an election via early voting and mail in voting, then tries to overturn the election in battleground states losing 69 times in court claiming a stolen election, and then commits a failed coup attempt to stop the certification of the results....What does this totally honorable and most respectful party of America do? Use legislation to make voting harder if not impossible to vote early and vote by mail.

 

[NorthDakota]

look at this amadán

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He says North Dakota, where his grandfather was a mayor, is nearby. He’s standing in Cheyenne, Wyoming. His grandfather was mayor of a town more than 700 miles away—roughly the distance from Pensacola to “nearby” Cincinnati. <a href="https://t.co/BCVNBdAPIR">https://t.co/BCVNBdAPIR</a></p>— Jonathan Allen (@jonallendc) <a href="https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1354931233189457929?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hes not the brightest bulb. It can be tricky to comprehend distance at times but not much of an excuse here. The part of the state his grandpa was a mayor in looks nothing like Wyoming anyway lol.

The only sorta potential defense there would be is distance in the Plains means much less than distance out east or out west. It took me less time to get to my girlfriend's place in college 70 miles away than it took to get to my booty calls place in Manhattan 50 blocks away.

Fun fact: from my old stomping grounds in Florida (Ft Walton/Destin) to Chicago is only like an hour or two further drive than Ft. Walton to Miami.

 

[NorthDakota]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">GOP state lawmakers have moved to impose new restrictions on mail-in voting for future elections in Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania — battleground states that were fiercely contested in the 2020 election with record numbers of early and mail-in voters <a href="https://t.co/fbzF8eMuYt">https://t.co/fbzF8eMuYt</a></p>— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1355175376151064582?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

When the GOP loses an election via early voting and mail in voting, then tries to overturn the election in battleground states losing 69 times in court claiming a stolen election, and then commits a failed coup attempt to stop the certification of the results....What does this totally honorable and most respectful party of America do? Use legislation to make voting harder if not impossible to vote early and vote by mail.

The GOP doesnt want people to vote. The GOP hates the democratic voting process and is resorting to taking disenfranchising peoples right to vote. Its clear.

Quit being dramatic lol. If you hypothetically removed mail voting, or early voting, no one is being disenfranchised. They may decide not to go vote in person because of the hassle, or they want to be on vacation, but if you still retain the ability to vote... you haven't been disenfranchised.

For the record, I don't like the idea of voting by mail. You could prove its 100% safe and secure, i still wouldn't like it. Its like taking law school exams online, I assume its generally fair to all of us, but one can't help but be a little skeptical. I got good at forging my parents signature when I was like 12. Its not hard.

Early voting is fine, not sure how I feel about having like a month to go do it, but I guess if your mind is set, might as well get it over with. At least you showed up to the poll then.

 

[TorontoGold]

Hes not the brightest bulb. It can be tricky to comprehend distance at times but not much of an excuse here. The part of the state his grandpa was a mayor in looks nothing like Wyoming anyway lol.

The only sorta potential defense there would be is distance in the Plains means much less than distance out east or out west. It took me less time to get to my girlfriend's place in college 70 miles away than it took to get to my booty calls place in Manhattan 50 blocks away.

Fun fact: from my old stomping grounds in Florida (Ft Walton/Destin) to Chicago is only like an hour or two further drive than Ft. Walton to Miami.

That's because the line was long to get in, and you had to stop at the atm to get a couple bills before seeing them.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Quit being dramatic lol. If you hypothetically removed mail voting, or early voting, no one is being disenfranchised. They may decide not to go vote in person because of the hassle, or they want to be on vacation, but if you still retain the ability to vote... you haven't been disenfranchised.

For the record, I don't like the idea of voting by mail. You could prove its 100% safe and secure, i still wouldn't like it. Its like taking law school exams online, I assume its generally fair to all of us, but one can't help but be a little skeptical. I got good at forging my parents signature when I was like 12. Its not hard.

Early voting is fine, not sure how I feel about having like a month to go do it, but I guess if your mind is set, might as well get it over with. At least you showed up to the poll then.

I mean ... I get it. If the political party I supported was actively trying to undermine democracy I am not sure how I would take it either. LOL

 

[TorontoGold]

Quit being dramatic lol. If you hypothetically removed mail voting, or early voting, no one is being disenfranchised. They may decide not to go vote in person because of the hassle, or they want to be on vacation, but if you still retain the ability to vote... you haven't been disenfranchised.

For the record, I don't like the idea of voting by mail. You could prove its 100% safe and secure, i still wouldn't like it. Its like taking law school exams online, I assume its generally fair to all of us, but one can't help but be a little skeptical. I got good at forging my parents signature when I was like 12. Its not hard.

Early voting is fine, not sure how I feel about having like a month to go do it, but I guess if your mind is set, might as well get it over with. At least you showed up to the poll then.

What material negative impacts has mail in voting had? Where is the demonstrable and provable fraud or illegalities of mail in voting? As an auditor I don't give a shit about 5/50/500 votes that won't material misstate the results, that's why you have recounts when thresholds are not met.

I'm not talking about hypotheticals, or some doctored Project Veritas video (lmao), or anything like that.

I do find it highly ironic that many conservatives want to do away with mail in voting because "one is too many", but for COVID? Hell open it up babbyyyyyy. I guess in either scenario poor people get screwed....

 

[Legacy]

One of the criticisms that was proffered to the Georgia election was that people who had P.O. Boxes were allowed to vote by mail-in. Really? They've never been to rural areas or native American areas where you get landmark directions to their homes which have no street address or numbers?

 

[NorthDakota]

What material negative impacts has mail in voting had? Where is the demonstrable and provable fraud or illegalities of mail in voting? As an auditor I don't give a shit about 5/50/500 votes that won't material misstate the results, that's why you have recounts when thresholds are not met.

I'm not talking about hypotheticals, or some doctored Project Veritas video (lmao), or anything like that.

I do find it highly ironic that many conservatives want to do away with mail in voting because "one is too many", but for COVID? Hell open it up babbyyyyyy. I guess in either scenario poor people get screwed....

Notice I specified i don't care if its 100% safe/secure (whether it is or not, i do not know). There was a couple wrestling tourneys in high school where you weighed in at your own place before getting on the bus and the coach would call in our weights to the tourney organizer. I know we didn't lie about guys missing weight, I don't really think other teams did either, doesn't mean I am required to think thats a good way of doing things. Makes it very easy for losers to cry foul.

You'd have a hard time convincing me there was a meaningful amount of fraudulent votes to change anything, I'd like that to be clear.

I think it'd be important to maintain mail voting for elderly, sick folks, etc. obviously. Early voting is fine too, I've heard horror stories about voting in urban areas (4 hours in DC lmao, 6-8 in Manhattan), plus some folks have odd schedules, fully on board with them going in at a different time.

 

[irishff1014]

At least Trump had press secretaries that were good. This poor girl is a lost dog in tall grass.

 

[dublinirish]

At least Trump had press secretaries that were good. This poor girl is a lost dog in tall grass.

this is sarcasm right??

 

[IrishLax]

this is sarcasm right??

He's one of the true believers. They've been conditioned to think open hostility and antagonistic lies are how you're supposed to behave at the podium. They don't know how to process a composed press secretary that traffics in facts.

 

[NorthDakota]

One of the criticisms that was proffered to the Georgia election was that people who had P.O. Boxes were allowed to vote by mail-in. Really? They've never been to rural areas or native American areas where you get landmark directions to their homes which have no street address or numbers?

I lived in the definition of a bumfuck town....<1000 people. We all had addresses, farmers have addresses, etc. We did use a P.O. box for mail though, no reason to have mail delivery in that situation. Unless ND is some amazing achievement in rural folks having a street address, I think this problem is likely overstated. The rural south though might actually be a different animal though.

I get that reservations are generally kinda dumpy for any number of reasons. We played them in sports. Thats the only reason you go there unless you are hitting the casino. But they had towns just like the white counties around them did.

I think ND reached a settlement with them to let them vote with their tribal ID's until they could work something out with either assigning them an address and/or figuring out what it is if it does exist and getting it put on a state or tribal ID. Something along those lines.

I would assume that these rural folks mostly have addresses. They have electricity down there. The electric company might have something? Either way, if you are going to do universal mail voting, you should probably allow P.O Boxs to work for people in those areas.

 

[NorthDakota]

He's one of the true believers. They've been conditioned to think open hostility and antagonistic lies are how you're supposed to behave at the podium. They don't know how to process a composed press secretary that traffics in facts.

I imagine her job is likely easier for two reasons:
1. Her boss, as dumb as he may be at times, doesn't stir shit up all the time, and
2. The press has made it pretty clear (explicitly in some cases) that they were going to be friendly to the new administration.

Put these two things together and her job is going to be a lot easier than Trump's people, regardless of how good/bad/average she is at her job.

 

[Legacy]

I lived in the definition of a bumfuck town....<1000 people. We all had addresses, farmers have addresses, etc. We did use a P.O. box for mail though, no reason to have mail delivery in that situation. Unless ND is some amazing achievement in rural folks having a street address, I think this problem is likely overstated. The rural south though might actually be a different animal though.

I get that reservations are generally kinda dumpy for any number of reasons. We played them in sports. Thats the only reason you go there unless you are hitting the casino. But they had towns just like the white counties around them did.

I think ND reached a settlement with them to let them vote with their tribal ID's until they could work something out with either assigning them an address and/or figuring out what it is if it does exist and getting it put on a state or tribal ID. Something along those lines.

I would assume that these rural folks mostly have addresses. They have electricity down there. The electric company might have something? Either way, if you are going to do universal mail voting, you should probably allow P.O Boxs to work for people in those areas.

Noted. As far as the NAs, I was thinking of the traditional pueblos in the SW as well as the large rezs like the Navajos with hogans where the neighbors are miles away. And not the federal housing concrete block with numbers and streets. Maybe the South is different, as you say. Those states who only have mail-in voting have probably worked this out.

 

[Irish#1]

We should let everyone call in their vote. The pollsters can verify who it is by the caller id.