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Polish Leppy 22

Polish Leppy 22

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Almost forgot: it is refreshing to hear the president elect call it what it is: radical Islamic terrorism.
 
IrishLax

IrishLax

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Buster Bluth said:
I wonder what you mean by "assimilate to American values and morals" in 2016? Does that mean being a Protestant? Is that an American value and morale system? They thought so in 1924. They also thought you shouldn't be able to buy a beer, how American is that these days?
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Bit of hyperbole given the post you're responding to, and the era you're talking about. I always hearken back to this quote from Teddy Roosevelt:
We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.
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It's truly one of my favorites, because of the second bolded. The United States of America's success... primarily a story of industry, innovation, and global leadership... is predicated on patriotism and a collective strive to create the greatest country possible. It's predicated on the idea that the "poor, tired, huddled masses" that come here of their own volition in search of a better life or as refugees are dedicated to being productive, contributing members of society that are thankful to the United States for the opportunity.

Many people in current generations are told that "multiculturalism" means rejecting assimilation, rejecting America, and self-segregation by race/creed/color. The example about Somali refugees utter failure to assimilate that someone posted earlier was spot on. It's also a global problem, and crime rates for Somali refugees are staggering everywhere a large refugee community was established.

Now, what does that have to do with old immigration law? Well, as written it might've been racist, but the purpose... to ensure that the country's population was not flooded by an ethnic group with a conflicting ideology/purpose/allegiance to the general population... ostensibly makes tons of sense. If you take one refugee family and stick them in an established community it's typically successful. If you settle thousands of refugee families in the same area so that they can be with "people like them" they tend to isolate themselves, fail to assimilate, fail to get jobs, and have a higher incidence of crime.

Anyways, bring back the melting pot... then people might start seeing others as part of the same team instead of continuing divisive identity politics.
 
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W

Woneone

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NorthDakota said:
What odds are you giving?
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Good thing you didn't take the bet --

"Authorities are still investigating the possible motive of the 24-year-old Swiss citizen of Ghanaian origin with a penchant for the occult".

The suspect, who was not identified by name but had a criminal record for a bike theft years ago, had only days earlier repeatedly stabbed and killed an acquaintance of South American origin with whom he had been arguing.
 
dublinirish

dublinirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dozens of people have been runned over by a van in Barcelona, police says it's a terrorist attack. <a href="https://t.co/BNsI0fXqPG">pic.twitter.com/BNsI0fXqPG</a></p>— Alfons López Tena (@alfonslopeztena) <a href="https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/898203852431863809">August 17, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Polish Leppy 22 said:
Europe has gotten to the point where this happens regularly and people shrug.
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https://www.cato.org/blog/european-terrorism-fatalities-annual-chance-being-murdered

The annual chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack in the United States from 2001 to 2017 is about 1 in 1.6 million per year. Over the same period, the chances are much lower in European countries.
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The number of deaths from terrorism is so tiny that the addition or subtraction of another few murders can drastically change the annual chances of being murdered, which is evidence of how manageable the threat from terrorism actually is. If terrorism was as common or deadly as people erroneously believe it to be, then another attack or two would not make a big difference in the annual chances.
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MNIrishman

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We need to convince the public that cancer, bad city planning, and underfunded infrastructure are the leading causes of terrorism so that we can invade the United States and win the hearts and minds of the people by solving problems they actually have.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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calvegas04 said:
oh good, I knew all these terrorist attacks are being blown out of proportion......
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You italicize it but you are something like four times more likely to be crushed to death by your own furniture than to be killed in a terrorist attack. It seems Bin Al-Refrigerator is a more gruesome killer when you look at the numbers.

Our intelligence services do a great job of tracking organized terrorist entities and their planned attacks. It's why the don't happen. There is simply no defense against a single cell of a lunatic or two.

It not even close to threatening Europe, yet people act like it's getting there. The UK alone underwent more terrorist attacks from the IRA than the whole of Europe is experiencing right now, and they made it through just fine.
 
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NorthDakota

NorthDakota

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Buster Bluth said:
You italicize it but you are something like four times more likely to be crushed to death by your own furniture than to be killed in a terrorist attack. It seems Bin Al-Refrigerator is a more gruesome killer when you look at the numbers.

Our intelligence services do a great job of tracking organized terrorist entities and their planned attacks. It's why the don't happen. There is simply no defense against a single cell of a lunatic or two.

It not even close to threatening Europe, yet people act like it's getting there. The UK alone underwent more terrorist attacks from the NRA than the whole of Europe is experiencing right now, and they made it through just fine.
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You mean the IRA, yeah?
 
B

Buster Bluth

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BGIF said:
The families of the 13 dead and 100 wounded will no doubt take solace tonight from your assurance.
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No they're probably grieving from a horrific terrorist attack that killed their loved ones. One of my close friends was just in Barcelona until three days ago, it was pretty spooky even for myself hearing the news as I didn't know he was back.

Terrorist attacks do more damage when you don't weigh them appropriately. When we make them bigger than they are, we aid the terrorists. I'm not downplaying anything, I provided data showing the minuscule scope of damage that ISIS-inspired terrorists have done in Europe lately. The fact that many people overstate their impact is both a tremendous indictment of our media structure and plays into the hands of both the terrorist organizations and far-Right anti-immigration entities. Strange bedfellows.

So I guess I'm sorry to push back on this notion that Europe is being overrun and obliterated by terrorist attacks. I'm sorry for bringing some data to a discussion and showing that Europe is going to be okay despite what many would have you believe.

13 people died today because of a terrorist and his vehicle. It takes less than three days for that many Spaniards to die in traffic accidents without terrorists.
 
Ndaccountant

Ndaccountant

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Wonder what the odds do when you limit the timeline to the start of the war in Syria and the rise of ISIL? Cannot shy away from the sharp rise in attacks since 2014.
 
calvegas04

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Ndaccountant said:
Wonder what the odds do when you limit the timeline to the start of the war in Syria and the rise of ISIL? Cannot shy away from the sharp rise in attacks since 2014.
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More refugees that come in the worse the odds get
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Ndaccountant said:
Wonder what the odds do when you limit the timeline to the start of the war in Syria and the rise of ISIL? Cannot shy away from the sharp rise in attacks since 2014.
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The rise is shown in CATO's article, which if I'm reading it correctly looks like it's now on par with the totals from the UK/NRA days. Although spread over the continent.

The post-ISIS return of all of the fanatics with their passports will be likely mean that the rate will stay elevate for at least another few years.
 
W

Woneone

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Buster Bluth said:
No they're probably grieving from a horrific terrorist attack that killed their loved ones. One of my close friends was just in Barcelona until three days ago, it was pretty spooky even for myself hearing the news as I didn't know he was back.

Terrorist attacks do more damage when you don't weigh them appropriately. When we make them bigger than they are, we aid the terrorists. I'm not downplaying anything, I provided data showing the minuscule scope of damage that ISIS-inspired terrorists have done in Europe lately. The fact that many people overstate their impact is both a tremendous indictment of our media structure and plays into the hands of both the terrorist organizations and far-Right anti-immigration entities. Strange bedfellows.

So I guess I'm sorry to push back on this notion that Europe is being overrun and obliterated by terrorist attacks. I'm sorry for bringing some data to a discussion and showing that Europe is going to be okay despite what many would have you believe.

13 people died today because of a terrorist and his vehicle. It takes less than three days for that many Spaniards to die in traffic accidents without terrorists.
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Violent, bigoted, and terrorist groups around the world would love to have you as a PR guy.

"Yea, but what is the likely hood that YOU'LL be lynched? See, we're not so scary after all."
 
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