Theology

Domina Nostra

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sorry, don’t mean to bring up the elephant in the room on the above conversation about Dabo being Christian, but ND is the most well known Christian school in the world. Lol.
In case you haven’t noticed, RCs, especially high-prestige RC institutions like ND, are a little conflicted about being labeled “Christian” these days.

Try, “a school in the Catholic tradition.”
 

IrishBoognish

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sorry, don’t mean to bring up the elephant in the room on the above conversation about Dabo being Christian, but ND is the most well known Christian school in the world. Lol.

Theres a hell of a lot of people, especially in the south and southern adjacent, that don't count Catholicism as Christianity.

Weird I know... but facts.
 

Domina Nostra

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Yes, because they don't even know what Protestant means.

It’s funny, because we are sitting here kind of rolling our eyes at the kid for “buying” Dabo’s Christianity, and then questioning why kids don’t get that ND is Christian. If you grow up in the NOrth East and don’t understand how the no-content, cultural Catholicism seems empty to TONS of people (one of the big reasons the Church is shrinking when you remove account for immigrants), then you aren’t being honest with yourself. The same phenomenon is going on in Latin America too, like Argentina.

As to what Southern Protestants are thinking…at the heart of American Protestantism is the belief that you are saved freely through grace, and not by good works.

They were taught that Catholics try to earn their way into heaven through good works, believe in crazy stuff (from their perspective) like indulgences, essentially worship saints—especially Mary, and generally let clergy make the rules while ignoring/not caring about the Bible.

None of that is true, but a lot of Southerners don’t have a ton of exposure to Catholics, and a lot of times the ones they meet are lukewarm, never mention Jesus, seem to be squarely in the mainstream culturally, and have all kind of half-ass ideas about what the Church is and confirm their suspicions.

Catholics like Freeman generally have no trouble in those circles. But if you don’t think that it strikes a young man differently when a coach prays with his players vs. a coach says “sure, I go to Church on Sunday” but never mentions God otherwise, not sure what to say.

And it’s easy to mock it when it’s a white kid from Mass. But when you realize that Dabo appeals to a lot of the Southern black players who care about this stuff, and that this is one of the things that brings together whites and blacks in the South, you eventually realize you are mocking their culture too.
 

greyhammer90

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It’s funny, because we are sitting here kind of rolling our eyes at the kid for “buying” Dabo’s Christianity, and then questioning why kids don’t get that ND is Christian. If you grow up in the NOrth East and don’t understand how the no-content, cultural Catholicism seems empty to TONS of people (one of the big reasons the Church is shrinking when you remove account for immigrants), then you aren’t being honest with yourself. The same phenomenon is going on in Latin America too, like Argentina.

As to what Southern Protestants are thinking…at the heart of American Protestantism is the belief that you are saved freely through grace, and not by good works.

They were taught that Catholics try to earn their way into heaven through good works, believe in crazy stuff (from their perspective) like indulgences, essentially worship saints—especially Mary, and generally let clergy make the rules while ignoring/not caring about the Bible.

None of that is true, but a lot of Southerners don’t have a ton of exposure to Catholics, and a lot of times the ones they meet are lukewarm, never mention Jesus, seem to be squarely in the mainstream culturally, and have all kind of half-ass ideas about what the Church is and confirm their suspicions.

Catholics like Freeman generally have no trouble in those circles. But if you don’t think that it strikes a young man differently when a coach prays with his players vs. a coach says “sure, I go to Church on Sunday” but never mentions God otherwise, not sure what to say.

And it’s easy to mock it when it’s a white kid from Mass. But when you realize that Dabo appeals to a lot of the Southern black players who care about this stuff, and that this is one of the things that brings together whites and blacks in the South, you eventually realize you are mocking their culture too.

Regardless of the underlying reasoning, if a part of your culture is genuinely thinking that Catholics aren't Christian because Catholics don't engage in performative nonsense as much as your creepy Baptist youth pastor, maybe you deserve to be mocked.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Catholics were once the predominant religion in the south but they were effectively run out by pre civil war. Culturally it’s been replaced by Evangelicals and now McJesus versions of Evangelicism.

What used to be you could ask someone where they went and it was First Baptist or First Presbyterian now is more commonly responded to with like Seacoast or New Spring Life or some “product” or brand that has multiple locations and they expand as much and as fast as possible. They effectively sell a faith based product and many times have schools or academies associated with the actual “church”. But it’s ultimately a business. This ultimately similar to RC schools and such but the curriculum couldn’t be more different.
 
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Cackalacky2.0

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Theres a hell of a lot of people, especially in the south and southern adjacent, that don't count Catholicism as Christianity.

Weird I know... but facts.
Was born in KY and raised Catholic but moved to SC at 9 yo. There wasn’t a RC location within 20 miles of my house. Made going to church difficult and ultimately sporadic. Mom parents tried to compensate bu attending a baptist church closer to home and attended by our neighbors and neighbors kids. Couldn’t have been more different of a service or ideas of worship.

My mom would tell people we were RC but that stopped eventually after everyone was very negative to the idea and would barely use the word Catholic in any context.

ETA: Awkward story… I was attending a vacation Bible school at the baptist church like my second year after moving and my mom gave me my catechism book to take and share. That did not go well. The “teacher” confiscated the book and told my mom afterwards not to bring it again.
 
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du Lac

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Was born in KY and raised Catholic but moved to SC at 9 yo. There wasn’t a RC location within 20 miles of my house. Made going to church difficult and ultimately sporadic. Mom parents tried to compensate bu attending a baptist church closer to home and attended by our neighbors and neighbors kids. Couldn’t have been more different of a service or ideas of worship.

My mom would tell people we were RC but that stopped eventually after everyone was very negative to the idea and would barely use the word Catholic in any context.

ETA: Awkward story… I was attending a vacation Bible school at the baptist church like my second year after moving and my mom gave me my catechism book to take and share. That did not go well. The “teacher” confiscated the book and told my mom afterwards not to bring it again.
Did anyone remind the negative Nancy’s that the Baptist church was created 1600 years after the death of Jesus 😂

I was raised Catholic. I’m not a very good one. I’ve questioned religion in general quite often in my life. Trying again as of late. But, I was a history major and continue to teach it. Not having been a very good Christian, I can still say as a historian, Catholicism is the only Christian faith that seems to have any degree of credibility in my mind, and that’s from a questioning religion in general perspective.

Either way, Catholics need to take back the title of Christian in my mind. It’s silly. I think it’s because the church is so damn big that it has in effect become viewed as something separate when it is in fact the original apostolic Christian church. But, priests, incense, saints, and Mary don’t jive with a lot of the hippy McJesus folks. I have a lot of McJesus friends and coworkers that have poked fun at Catholicism and they don’t even know what the Protestant Reformation is.
 

du Lac

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Was born in KY and raised Catholic but moved to SC at 9 yo. There wasn’t a RC location within 20 miles of my house. Made going to church difficult and ultimately sporadic. Mom parents tried to compensate bu attending a baptist church closer to home and attended by our neighbors and neighbors kids. Couldn’t have been more different of a service or ideas of worship.

My mom would tell people we were RC but that stopped eventually after everyone was very negative to the idea and would barely use the word Catholic in any context.

ETA: Awkward story… I was attending a vacation Bible school at the baptist church like my second year after moving and my mom gave me my catechism book to take and share. That did not go well. The “teacher” confiscated the book and told my mom afterwards not to bring it again.
Did anyone remind the negative Nancy’s that the Baptist church was created 1600 years after the death of Jesus 😂

I was raised Catholic. I’m not a very good one. I’ve questioned religion in general quite often in my life. Trying again as of late. But, I was a history major and continue to teach it. Not having been a very good Christian, I can still say as a historian, Catholicism is the only Christian faith that seems to have any degree of credibility in my mind, and that’s from a questioning religion in general perspective.

Either way, Catholics need to take back the title of Christian in my mind. It’s silly. I think it’s because the church is so damn big that it has in effect become viewed as something separate when it is in fact the original apostolic Christian church. But, priests, incense, saints, and Mary don’t jive with a lot of the hippy McJesus folks. I have a lot of McJesus friends and coworkers and they don’t even know what the Protestant Reformation is.
 

CoachB

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It’s funny, because we are sitting here kind of rolling our eyes at the kid for “buying” Dabo’s Christianity, and then questioning why kids don’t get that ND is Christian. If you grow up in the NOrth East and don’t understand how the no-content, cultural Catholicism seems empty to TONS of people (one of the big reasons the Church is shrinking when you remove account for immigrants), then you aren’t being honest with yourself. The same phenomenon is going on in Latin America too, like Argentina.

As to what Southern Protestants are thinking…at the heart of American Protestantism is the belief that you are saved freely through grace, and not by good works.

They were taught that Catholics try to earn their way into heaven through good works, believe in crazy stuff (from their perspective) like indulgences, essentially worship saints—especially Mary, and generally let clergy make the rules while ignoring/not caring about the Bible.

None of that is true, but a lot of Southerners don’t have a ton of exposure to Catholics, and a lot of times the ones they meet are lukewarm, never mention Jesus, seem to be squarely in the mainstream culturally, and have all kind of half-ass ideas about what the Church is and confirm their suspicions.

Catholics like Freeman generally have no trouble in those circles. But if you don’t think that it strikes a young man differently when a coach prays with his players vs. a coach says “sure, I go to Church on Sunday” but never mentions God otherwise, not sure what to say.

And it’s easy to mock it when it’s a white kid from Mass. But when you realize that Dabo appeals to a lot of the Southern black players who care about this stuff, and that this is one of the things that brings together whites and blacks in the South, you eventually realize you are mocking their culture too.
Very well said.
 

ab2cmiller

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Interesting reading people being frustrated how Catholics are judged by many outside the Catholic Church, but then go ahead and judge those outside of the Catholic Church for their beliefs or style of worship. SMH

I could probably provide some insights since our family is not Catholic and for the last 6 years we've had at least one of our kids attending ND. Unfortunately, some of my insights would not be well received given some of the earlier posts. While our family loves Notre Dame, that doesn't change the fact that our kids were attending a school, that while Christian, couldn't have been more different than what our family had experienced up to that point.

I can definitely see how it can be a hurdle for some kids/families coming from Non-Catholic faith traditions.
 

MacIrish75

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Interesting reading people being frustrated how Catholics are judged by many outside the Catholic Church, but then go ahead and judge those outside of the Catholic Church for their beliefs or style of worship. SMH

I could probably provide some insights since our family is not Catholic and for the last 6 years we've had at least one of our kids attending ND. Unfortunately, some of my insights would not be well received given some of the earlier posts. While our family loves Notre Dame, that doesn't change the fact that our kids were attending a school, that while Christian, couldn't have been more different than what our family had experienced up to that point.

I can definitely see how it can be a hurdle for some kids/families coming from Non-Catholic faith traditions.
I grew up Catholic and my parents are still staunch Catholics who very much believe in all of the core tenets of the Catholic church. I, personally, have been baptized, received my first holy communion, and was confirmed in the church—but I never really felt much connection to the service. The rigidity and formality of it was always weird to me. Every Sunday it was lather, rinse, repeat. I also really never understood the process of confession and why an intermediary was necessary and that I couldn’t go straight to God, myself? That never resonated with me.

I’ve attended, as an adult, non-denominational churches, Methodist churches, Wesleyan churches, and Lutheran churches. My wife was raised Lutheran and I’ve really enjoyed learning about the Lutheran faith (Catholic-lite) and enjoy the fact that it has the tradition of the Catholic Church, but yet is a bit more contemporary in terms of the service structure and especially with the music.

I think if the Catholic Church would allow itself to modernize just a bit, it would be more attractive to those in my generation. What good is attending church if you aren’t able to make a connection to the pastor/priest, message/homily, or the scripture?
 

CoachB

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I am not catholic, nor ever have been, but I have to continually remind my Baptist wife that Catholics are indeed Christians, as well. They may not be Protesants or evangelical born again Christians, but they are Christians. When Constantine brought Christianity to Europe in 313 AD, I am sure it was of the Catholic variety, but I could be wrong.
 

CoachB

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To me the biggest difference is being saved by grace, through faith, and not by works. That and not having to have an intermediary to talk to God, as previously said. Catholocism and evangelical Christianity look A LOT different. And that could matter to some born again recruits. That being said, I imagine the people and values at ND show live the Christian walk more than the people at almost all universities, including Clemson.
 

Rizzophil

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To me the biggest difference is being saved by grace, through faith, and not by works. That and not having to have an intermediary to talk to God, as previously said. Catholocism and evangelical Christianity look A LOT different. And that could matter to some born again recruits. That being said, I imagine the people and values at ND show live the Christian walk more than the people at almost all universities, including Clemson.
Preach it
 

Domina Nostra

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Catholics were once the predominant religion in the south but they were effectively run out by pre civil war. Culturally it’s been replaced by Evangelicals and now McJesus versions of Evangelicism.

Is this accurate? How do you figure that? Catholic numbers in all of the South grew before, during, and after the Civil War, as a result of immigration.

Of the original colonies, there were no Catholic states.

- Maryland, tried to be, and that experiment was quickly stamped out. We think of it now as a Catholic colony, but that is just not the case.

- Delaware was a slave state with no substantial Catholic history.

Of the Confederate states:

- Georgia had Spanish forts and such, but was never widely inhabited until the British took over and they were not tolerant of Catholics. Catholics trickled in from various directions.

- South Carolina was very much like Georgia. Catholics were barely there and then the religion was not tolerated while it was being settled. They trickled in as immigrants.

- Virginia was certainly not Catholic in any way. Catholics trickled in from various directions.

- North Carolina's Catholic population grew during the mid 19th century. But it was tiny.

- Kentucky had a bunch of Catholics, and they weren't run off.

- Tennessee was not particularly Catholics and the numbers slowly grew in the 19th century.

- Louisiana had a large Catholic population that grew before the civil war. They were not run out.

- Mississippi had no substantial Catholic population pre-Civil War.

- Texas had a huge Catholic population before and after the Civil War. Protestants from the United States certainly harassed the Catholics when they were trying to take the land for the Union. But once the conquest was complete, the Catholics had sufficient numbers to protect themselves politically and things calmed down. They were not chased out.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I am not catholic, nor ever have been, but I have to continually remind my Baptist wife that Catholics are indeed Christians, as well. They may not be Protesants or evangelical born again Christians, but they are Christians. When Constantine brought Christianity to Europe in 313 AD, I am sure it was of the Catholic variety, but I could be wrong.
I could be wrong
But I thought Peter brought Catholicism to Europe?
Or does Rome not count?
 

Domina Nostra

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I could be wrong
But I thought Peter brought Catholicism to Europe?
Or does Rome not count?

Paul was considered the great Apostle to the gentiles, but Peter died in Rome. I don't know the time line too well, but theChurch was already in Europe by the mid-first century, 150 years or so before Constantine.
 

zelezo vlk

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Paul was getting his butt into Macedonia and Greece (both in Europe) and of course was eventually martyred in Rome. Peter might not have been the first one, but Christianity was in Europe only a couple decades after the Resurrection.

Also what the heck happened here?? Did this all come from a crootin' thread?
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Is this accurate? How do you figure that? Catholic numbers in all of the South grew before, during, and after the Civil War, as a result of immigration.

Of the original colonies, there were no Catholic states.

- Maryland, tried to be, and that experiment was quickly stamped out. We think of it now as a Catholic colony, but that is just not the case.

- Delaware was a slave state with no substantial Catholic history.

Of the Confederate states:

- Georgia had Spanish forts and such, but was never widely inhabited until the British took over and they were not tolerant of Catholics. Catholics trickled in from various directions.

- South Carolina was very much like Georgia. Catholics were barely there and then the religion was not tolerated while it was being settled. They trickled in as immigrants.

- Virginia was certainly not Catholic in any way. Catholics trickled in from various directions.

- North Carolina's Catholic population grew during the mid 19th century. But it was tiny.

- Kentucky had a bunch of Catholics, and they weren't run off.

- Tennessee was not particularly Catholics and the numbers slowly grew in the 19th century.

- Louisiana had a large Catholic population that grew before the civil war. They were not run out.

- Mississippi had no substantial Catholic population pre-Civil War.

- Texas had a huge Catholic population before and after the Civil War. Protestants from the United States certainly harassed the Catholics when they were trying to take the land for the Union. But once the conquest was complete, the Catholics had sufficient numbers to protect themselves politically and things calmed down. They were not chased out.
I apologize... I absolutely meant to type " Protestants were the predominant religion" but then i see that the rest is pretty terrible as well. I need to demo my OP and start over to correctly say what I meant. Got distracted at work and rushed through
 

Domina Nostra

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Paul was getting his butt into Macedonia and Greece (both in Europe) and of course was eventually martyred in Rome. Peter might not have been the first one, but Christianity was in Europe only a couple decades after the Resurrection.

Also what the heck happened here?? Did this all come from a crootin' thread?

Yes, I have a thing where I can't take half-ass Catholics mocking Southern Evangelicals, pretending that it is rooted in religion rather than their cultural disdain for the South and sometimes politics. It's too much when they are like, "Uhhh... doesn't he know that ND is the MOST Christian place." Sure, there is an argument for it, but it's worthwhile asking why so many don't see it that way at all.
 

Domina Nostra

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I apologize... I absolutely meant to type " Protestants were the predominant religion" but then i see that the rest is pretty terrible as well. I need to demo my OP and start over to correctly say what I meant. Got distracted at work and rushed through

Haha! Again, my beef is that Catholics criticize Southern Evangelicals for having this shallow faith which is just a mirror of Southern culture. My point to Northern Catholics is they are not very self-aware. It's the same up there. A lot of Catholicism is just "good people"-ism, defined by the culture standards of the NE.
 

ACamp1900

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Ah, I see the board has gone full ‘ACamp’s wife’s family at Christmas’ mode,… lovely.
 
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