Theology

[wizards8507]

Jesus

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Don't you think you're taking it a little bit literally, Dwight?

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'm also partial to Mary.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[wizards8507]

*Sigh.*

 

[zelezo vlk]

For real tho, my favorite is the woman at the well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[NorthDakota]

truly beautiful person

That's awesome. Big fan of the franciscans.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Footage on this live feed is nuts. Close up shot of the fire spreading through the roof. <a href="https://t.co/C2ezig4NEy">https://t.co/C2ezig4NEy</a> <a href="https://t.co/hJ4UlZHgRk">pic.twitter.com/hJ4UlZHgRk</a></p>— Jim Dalrymple II (@Dalrymple) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dalrymple/status/1117840646281150468?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Very sad, but also an apt symbol of the state of French Catholicism.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Name a better Biblical character than the penitent thief.

"Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation?

And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal."

Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom"

He replied to him, "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Those are the most powerful words ever written in my opinion.

San Dimas is very popular among your people, no?

 

[wizards8507]

So when did "Maundy" Thursday become a thing? I don't recall ever seeing it used before, but now it's everywhere, even among Catholics.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So when did "Maundy" Thursday become a thing? I don't recall ever seeing it used before, but now it's everywhere, even among Catholics.

It comes from the first word of the introit for today's mass.

 

[wizards8507]

It comes from the first word of the intrroit for today's mass.

I know what it means, I've just never heard anyone actually use the term. My whole life, it's been "Holy Thursday" and nothing else.

 

[zelezo vlk]

It's been Maundy Thursday my entire life. My mom who grew up Catholic taught it to me

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I know what it means, I've just never heard anyone actually use the term. My whole life, it's been "Holy Thursday" and nothing else.

It's the Traddening™.

 

[wizards8507]

It's the Traddening™.

The exact opposite, it's actually protestant nonsense. Up here where our last names end in vowels like God intended, we celebrate Holy Thursday.

 

[ACamp1900]

So I'll be attending my first Catholic Good Friday service this year... my in laws thought it necessary to prep me for it. I was like, "So it won't be the standard monotone message from a Priest you can't understand while half the parishioners look like they're asleep????" Honestly though, my mother in law made it out like i'm about to go through the Trial of the Grasses.....

 

[zelezo vlk]

So I'll be attending my first Catholic Good Friday service this year... my in laws thought it necessary to prep me for it. I was like, "So it won't be the standard monotone message from a Priest you can't understand while half the parishioners look like they're asleep????" Honestly though, my mother in law made it out like i'm about to go through the Trial of the Grasses.....

Go venerate the Cross and quitcher bitchin

The exact opposite, it's actually protestant nonsense. Up here where our last names end in vowels like God intended, we celebrate Holy Thursday.

Well since it predates Protestantism...

Thursday before Easter, mid-15c., from Middle English maunde "the Last Supper" (c. 1300), also "ceremony of washing the feet of poor persons or inferiors, performed as a religious rite on Maundy Thursday" (early 14c.), from Old French mandé, from Latin mandatum "commandment" (see mandate (n.)); said to be so called in reference to the opening words of the Latin church service for this day, Mandatum novum do vobis "A new commandment I give unto you" (John xiii:34), words supposedly spoken by Jesus to the Apostles after washing their feet at the Last Supper.

Source

 

[BabyIrish]

So I'll be attending my first Catholic Good Friday service this year... my in laws thought it necessary to prep me for it. I was like, "So it won't be the standard monotone message from a Priest you can't understand while half the parishioners look like they're asleep????" Honestly though, my mother in law made it out like i'm about to go through the Trial of the Grasses.....

If that's your honest view then I imagine you'll think the Good Friday service is even worse then normal Mass.

 

[wizards8507]

Go venerate the Cross and quitcher bitchin

Well since it predates Protestantism...

Source

Yes the word has pre-reformation origins, but from what I can tell it's always been Holy Thursday in the Roman Missal.

 

[ACamp1900]

If that's your honest view then I imagine you'll think the Good Friday service is even worse then normal Mass.

Just having a bit of fun, I'm a friend, but yeah my experience (not so much my view) is pretty much that... at least to this point.

 

[BabyIrish]

Just having a bit of fun, I'm a friend, but yeah my experience (not so much my view) is pretty much that... at least to this point.

No problem and I wasn’t trying to belittle you in anyway, just giving you a heads up that it probably won’t be enjoyable for you. 15-20 minutes extra on things that normally take a few minutes and the expected atmosphere of somberness.

 

[ACamp1900]

No problem and I wasn’t trying to belittle you in anyway, just giving you a heads up that it probably won’t be enjoyable for you. 15-20 minutes extra on things that normally take a few minutes and the expected atmosphere of somberness.

I always appreciate the history of it all... even if I have had a terrible track record of Priests that are impossible to understand.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Somebody's apparently trying to start an Old Catholic chapel in Austin? Somebody mobilize the Knights of Columbus!

 

[wizards8507]

 

[zelezo vlk]

I was listening to Josias' Podcast on Atonement today and saw one of Pater Edmund's articles on Sancrucensis in the Bibliography. Here is an excerpt, the most relevant parts considering that today is Good Friday. Bolded is my own emphasis.

Source: https://sancrucensis.wordpress.com/2016/05/12/desire-deicide-and-atonement-rene-girard-and-st-thomas-aquinas/

Atonement

Girard is quite right to say that Christ’s death reveals violence and evil for what they are. But we can now see more clearly that what is revealed in not only the scapegoat mechanism, but also (and more profoundly) the opposition to God found in all sin. In Himself God cannot be harmed, but by becoming man He became vulnerable, and sin could thus appear as what it is. In order to suppress the truth of God that conscience speaks in our hearts, we killed Jesus, who proclaimed that truth. “This man was delivered up by the definite plan and purpose of God, and you nailed him to the cross by the hands of heathen men, and killed him”— St. Peter’s words in Acts 2:23 apply not only to the Jerusalem mob that shouted “crucify him,” but to each and every one of us.

But Christ did much more than reveal the nature of sin. He also atoned for sin. That is, He reconciled humankind to the God from whom we had separated ourselves by sin. He made God and man to be at-one.

Atonement, even between two human persons, can only take place by a change of the will, a renewal of love. Since the essence of sin was the turning of the will away from God toward some created thing, sin could only be overcome by a turning the will back to God, so that it would love Him perfectly. But since we were not capable of such a love, the Son of God became man in order to love for us. “So, coming into the world, Christ says… Behold, I come to do your will… By which will we are sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ” (Hebrews 10:5-10). This is the essence of the atonement: the perfect love that Jesus gives to God, the whole of His will entirely united to God as the final end and highest good (IIIa 48,2) And he did this for us by assuming our nature, and teaching it to love God: “even though he was the Son, he learned obedience from his sufferings; and, made perfect, he became for all who obey him the cause of everlasting salvation” (Hebrews 5:8).


And this perfect love of God was shown through his sufferings. Love demands that the one who has fallen away, who has been unfaithful to love, somehow recognize the evil that they have done. This is done in the first place by the “contrition” of the heart, but it is done also by taking on a penance, by “suffering” what has been done in order to bear it away. As Fr. Norbert Hoffmann has argued, atonement is the bearing of sin as pain.[11] And this is what Christ does for all humanity in bearing his sufferings out of love. Only one who was at once man and God fully bear sin as suffering. Only in such a one could humanity bear its sin as what it truly is: an attack on God. As man Christ was able to suffer death. As God he was able to suffer it as the murder of God, as deicide.

Sacrifice and Merit


Christ’s atoning death is a sacrifice offered to God: “Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:12). But this is sacrifice in a very different sense from that primarily employed by Girard. Girard usually uses sacrifice to mean the murder of scapegoat (though he later also uses it to mean giving up what one loves for the sake of the good of the one loved— as in the good harlot in the judgment of Solomon, who is willing to give up her child so that the child might live). The Christian idea of sacrifice, as explicated by Thomas (IIa IIae 85), has nothing to do with scapegoating. It is an outer sign of the inner offering of love that is due to God as our final goal and fullness of being. Such a sign could be merely the prostrating of the body. Or it could be the offering of a gift that could be placed in the sanctuary without changing the gift. But most properly, sacrifice is a gift that is taken out of our use and made “sacred” to God. This is done by destroying the thing: for instance, slaying an animal, burning grain, pouring out wine. Sacrifice is thus the symbolic opposite of sin; sin is choosing some lesser thing over God, sacrifice is giving up some thing for God.

In the Old Testament, bloody sacrifices were used to seal covenants. They signified that the people were joined into one family with God (one blood). They also signified a curse—if the people broke the covenant, their blood would flow like that of the sacrificial victims. But when the people did break the covenant, God gave them the sacrifices of atonement to avert the curse they had brought on themselves. Atoning sacrifices signify conversion to God, but also the bearing of the curse, which is deflected onto the sacrificial animal that stands in place of the people.

Christ’s sacrifice (IIIa 48,3) seals a new covenant by which we are taken up into God’s family. And it is the atoning sacrifice that bears the curses of all the previous covenants that we had broken: “Christ ransomed us from the curse of the law by becoming the thing accursed, for our sake” (Galatians 3:13).


Christ’s sacrifice is the most complete opposite of sin. In sinning we implicitly say that we do not want God to be God, we put ourselves or some other creature in his place. But Christ “did not think to seize on the right to be equal to God, but stripped himself by taking the form of a slave” (Philippians 2:6-7). In his sacrifice he gave up everything, even his life, for God. But then God shows that he does not want to take anything from us. He does not begrudge us anything. The lie behind all sin is that God is our rival, who prevents us from having complete happiness, but in raising Jesus to his right hand God shows that he is pure generosity: “all that is mine is yours” (Luke 15:31). The resurrection and Ascension of Jesus is not only for him, but for all of us, who are united to him through Baptism: “We were buried with him by baptism into death; so that, as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of his Father, so we too may walk in a renewal of life” (Romans 6:4). By his sacrifice Christ not only atoned for our sins, but merited (IIIa 48,1) for us a share in the very life of God. In suffering deicide Christ proves that there is no reason for deicide: God wants to give us everything.

The union with Christ’s death and resurrection that we receive in Baptism is deepened and strengthened by the Holy Eucharist. In the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s sacrificial death is made sacramentally present, and when we receive his body and blood in Holy Communion we are so identified with the sacrificial victim that we receive the life he merited: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life everlasting, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:54). The sacrificial banquet is a foretaste of the union with God in Heaven, “the wedding feast of the lamb,” that satisfies the infinite desire of our hearts— a desire that leads not to “oblivion, and death,” but to fullness of life and being.

 

[wizards8507]

Happy Easter.

Never forget that John was faster than Peter and he wanted all of mankind to know it for eternity.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This Spaniard has been building a cathedral, alone and by hand, for over 50 years:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Lone Man Building a Cathedral By Hand <a href="https://t.co/lUO54WU5Bc">pic.twitter.com/lUO54WU5Bc</a></p>— John W. Hampson &#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824; (@johnwhampson) <a href="https://twitter.com/johnwhampson/status/1121455255231664128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

simply awesome
so he's the original GRRM

This Spaniard has been building a cathedral, alone and by hand, for over 50 years:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Lone Man Building a Cathedral By Hand <a href="https://t.co/lUO54WU5Bc">pic.twitter.com/lUO54WU5Bc</a></p>— John W. Hampson ���� (@johnwhampson) <a href="https://twitter.com/johnwhampson/status/1121455255231664128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[zelezo vlk]

That dude is 70 years older than me and more spry than my parents

 

[BGIF]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-heresy/conservatives-want-catholic-bishops-to-denounce-pope-as-heretic-idUSKCN1S73KE

Conservatives want Catholic bishops to denounce pope as heretic
Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A group of 19 Catholic priests and academics have urged bishops to denounce Pope Francis as a heretic, in the latest ultra-conservative broadside against the pontiff over a range of topics from communion for the divorced to religious diversity.

The most prominent of the group is Father Aidan Nichols, a 70-year-old British priest of the Dominican order who has written many books and is one of most recognized theologians in the English-speaking world. The others are less well known.

“We take this measure as a last resort to respond to the accumulating harm caused by Pope Francis’s words and actions over several years, which have given rise to one of the worst crises in the history of the Catholic Church,” they said in a 20-page open letter.

The letter attacks Francis for allegedly softening the Church’s stance on a range of subjects. They say he has not been outspoken enough against abortion and has been too welcoming to homosexuals and too accommodating to Protestants and Muslims.

It was published on Tuesday by LifeSiteNews, a conservative Catholic website that often is a platform for attacks on the pope. Last year, it ran a document by the Vatican’s former ambassador to Washington, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, calling on the pope to resign.

A Vatican spokesman had no comment on the letter, which includes dozens of footnotes, Bible verses, pronouncements by previous popes, and a separate bibliography. The letter invites people to join an on-line signature drive.

Addressing the bishops, the letter says “We therefore request that your Lordships urgently address the situation of Pope Francis’s public adherence to heresy.”

It asks them to “publicly to admonish Pope Francis to abjure the heresies that he has professed”.

Deciding whether a Church member is a heretic is the job of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican’s doctrinal watchdog department.

Massimo Faggioli, a well-known professor of historical theology at Villanova University in the United States, said the letter was an example of the extreme polarisation in the Church.

“There is overwhelming support for Francis in the global Church on one side, and a tiny fringe of extremists trying to paint Francis as a pope who is heretic. The problem is that there is very little legitimate, constructive critique of Francis’ pontificate and his theology,” he said in an email.

A significant part of the letter concentrates on “Amoris Laetitia” (The Joy of Love), a 2016 papal document that is a cornerstone of Francis’ attempt to make the 1.3 billion-member Church more inclusive and less condemning.

ULTRA CONSERVATIVES TAKE AIM
In it, Francis called for a Church that is less strict and more compassionate towards any “imperfect” members, such as those who divorced and later remarry in civil ceremonies.

Under Church law they cannot receive communion unless they abstain from sex with their new partner, because their first marriage is still valid in the eyes of the Church, unless they have received an annulment. The Church does not allow divorce.

Francis has opened the door to some exceptions, allowing the decision whether the person can be fully re-integrated and receive communion to be made by a priest or bishop jointly with the individual on a case-by-case basis.

After Amoris Laetitia was published, four conservative publicly challenged the pope, accusing him of sowing confusion on important moral issues. He has thus far not responded to their demands that he clear up their doubts.

The new letter lists pages of what it calls “Evidence for Pope Francis being guilty of the delict (crime) of heresy”.

It attacks him for having once said that the intentions of Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant Reformation, “were not mistaken”. It says he has not condemned abortion strongly enough and is too lenient with homosexual Catholics.

The letter criticized Francis for signing a joint statement with Lutherans in 2016 in which the pope said Catholics were grateful for the “theological gifts” of the Reformation.

It attacked the pope for a common statement with a prominent Muslim leader in Abu Dhabi in February which said the pluralism and diversity of religions was “willed by God”. Conservatives say the Roman Catholic Church is the only true one and that members are called to convert others to it.

 

[wizards8507]

TFW you're traveling and the pastor at the Mass you go to scolds the parish for being stingy in the collections and says the church is probably going to shut down.

 

[BGIF]

TFW you're traveling and the pastor at the Mass you go to scolds the parish for being stingy in the collections and says the church is probably going to shut down.

Anger, realizing that if priests hadn't abused children and then pastors, bishops, cardinals, and popes all covered it up, the congregations wouldn't be paying out millions in lawsuits.

And than, more anger realizing that the perpetrators and their enablers will spend their leisure years at congregant funded rest homes. Paid for by the very people that bastard is berating for being stingy.