Theology

Whiskeyjack

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I posted earlier in this thread how Pope Emeritus Benedict has argued that atheism is an epiphenomenon of Christianity, but I wasn't able to find a link to support it. Finally found the relevant article today, so here it is for anyone interested:

After another wave of protests on Friday, it is fair to ask what Pope Benedict XVI hoped to achieve with his lecture on “Faith, Reason and the University”, delivered in Regensburg last week. It outraged the Muslim world in a way that resembles the Danish cartoon controversy of last winter. Morocco recalled its ambassador to the Vatican, six churches were burnt in Palestine and an Italian nun was shot dead in Somalia. Equally striking, though, was that the reaction of the west did not run along expected lines. The former archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, a champion of inter-religious dialogue, praised Benedict’s “extraordinarily effective and lucid” lecture; and even José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, the generally anti-clerical Spanish premier, offered his “full understanding and support”.

Benedict cited a 14th-century dialogue in which the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Palaeologos inquired of a learned Persian what was new in Islam besides the commandment to spread faith by the sword. Manuel II’s argument against conversion through violence, according to the Pope, is: “Not to act rationally is against the nature of God.” Things are different in Islam, says Benedict, in which “God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound to any other category, not even to rationality.” The Pope was not gloating. The choice of illustration may have been mischievous, but it was not smug. Benedict’s lecture was a lesson to Christianity, not an attack on Islam.

It is no secret that the Pope worries about Islam. He has doubted publicly that it can be accommodated in a pluralistic society. He has demoted one of John Paul II’s leading advisers on the Islamic world and tempered his support for a programme of inter-religious dialogue run by Franciscan monks at Assisi. He has embraced the view of Italian moderates and conservatives that the guiding principle of inter-religious dialogue must be reciprocità. That is, he finds it naive to permit the building of a Saudi-funded mosque, Europe’s largest, in Rome, while Muslim countries forbid the construction of churches and missions. But Benedict is not among those who sees Islam’s resurgence as a function simply of all the money Saudis are throwing around. For him, Islam’s strength comes mainly from “people’s conviction that Islam can provide a valid spiritual foundation to their lives”.

By contrast, in Without Roots, a book he wrote with Marcello Pera, the Italian politician, he points up two problems for Christianity in Europe. First, “its model for life is apparently unconvincing”. Second, “it seems to have been surpassed by ‘science’ and to be out-of-step with the rationalism of the modern era”. This scientific thinking, he warns, is often intolerant. You could say that western thinkers look on the metaphysical concerns that antedate the scientific revolution much as Islamists view the world before the time of Mohammed – as barbarous. Within Catholicism, Marxist “liberation theologists” sought not long ago to claim the church for “scientific” socialism. What the Byzantine anecdote allowed the Pope to do, quite elegantly, was to present, on the one hand, a God without rationality and, on the other, a rationality without God. Although he was setting up Christianity as the happy medium, he was not claiming it was the Christianity we have just now.

Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, looked at the essential cleavage in the world as being between religion and unbelief. Devout Christians, Muslims and Buddhists had more in common with each other than with atheists. John Paul sought dialogue with leaders of other faiths, visited mosques and apologised for the Crusades. Benedict does not agree. He thinks that, within societies, believers and unbelievers exist in symbiosis. Secular westerners, he implies, have a lot in common with their religious fellows. The Pope refers to the mutual incomprehension between western cattolici (or believers) and laici (or secularists) as a schism – a schism “whose gravity we are only now grasping”. It seems to be Benedict’s top priority to heal it. If rationalism is at the root of Christianity, hyper-rationalism (secularism) is a problem specific to Christianity. It may even be a form of Christianity – one that over-emphasises what we render unto Caesar and under-emphasises what we render unto God.

The Pope has been criticised for ignoring the way Muslims live their religion as an identity, not a doctrine. But that gets things the wrong way round. Benedict seeks to strengthen, not weaken, the identitarian conception of religion. “In the times of Jesus,” he writes in Without Roots, “the Jewish Diaspora was filled with ‘God-fearers’ who reported in varying degrees to the synagogue and who, in different ways, lived the spiritual treasure of the faith of Israel. Only a few of them wished to enter fully into the community of Israel, through circumcision, but for them it was a reference point that indicated the way to life.” When Benedict argued at Regensburg for “the profound harmony between what is Greek in the best sense of the word and the Biblical understanding of faith in God,” he was inviting the non-religious to avail themselves of Rome’s inheritance.

It is not by accident that secular ideologies such as human rights and democratic socialism bear a resemblance to Christian ethics. They have their roots in Christian ethics, after all. Secular intellectuals should be in sympathy with the church, Benedict’s thinking goes, even if they are not in communion with it. That is why he has spent so much time in public dialogue with such secular philosophers as the Italian Paolo Flores d’Arcais and the German Jürgen Habermas. That was what the Regensburg talk was about. Rather than convince secular-minded people to join the flock, he seems to be trying to convince them that they are in it already.
 

Whiskeyjack

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First Things' Michael Hanby just published an article titled "The Civic Project of American Christianity":

According to Hans Jonas, the birth of modern science was bound up with the advent of a radical new view of reality, a “technological ontology” that conflates nature and artifice, knowing and making, truth and utility. This metaphysical revolution has set in motion a perpetual historical revolution, whose interminable machinations continually threaten to overwhelm the revolutionaries themselves. Confronting the obvious question of how a perpetual revolution could be recognized or measured from the “inside,” Jonas offered for consideration the span of an ordinary man’s life:

If a man in the fullness of his days, at the end of his life, can pass on the wisdom of his experience to those who grow up after him; if what he has learned in his youth, added to but not discarded in his maturity, still serves him in his old age and is still worth teaching the then young—then his was not an age of revolution, not counting, of course, abortive revolutions. The world into which his children enter is still his world, not because it is entirely unchanged, but because the changes that did occur were gradual and limited enough for him to absorb them into his initial stock and keep abreast of them. If, however, a man in his advancing years has to turn to his children, or grandchildren, to have them tell him what the present is about; if his own acquired knowledge and understanding no longer avail him; if at the end of his days he finds himself to be obsolete rather than wise—then we may term the rate and scope of change that thus overtook him, “revolutionary.”

By this measure, there can be little doubt that we live in revolutionary times, even if this revolution is the full flower of seeds planted long ago. What availed as the common wisdom of mankind until the day before yesterday—for example, that man, woman, mother, and father name natural realities as well as social roles, that children issue naturally from their union, that the marital union of man and woman is the foundation of human society and provides the optimal home for the flourishing of children—all this is now regarded by many as obsolete and even hopelessly bigoted, as court after court, demonstrating that this revolution has profoundly transformed even the meaning of reason itself, has declared that this bygone wisdom now fails even to pass the minimum legal threshold of rational cogency. This is astonishing by any measure; that it has occurred in half the time span proposed by Jonas makes it more astonishing still.

Such are the logical consequences of the sexual revolution, but to grasp more fully the meaning of its triumph, we must see that the sexual revolution is not merely—or perhaps even primarily—sexual. It has profound implications for the relationship not just between man and woman but between nature and culture, the person and the body, children and parents. It has enormous ramifications for the nature of reason, for the meaning of education, and for the relations between the state, the family, civil society, and the Church. This is because the sexual revolution is one aspect of a deeper revolution in the question of who or what we understand the human person to be (fundamental anthropology), and indeed of what we understand reality to be (ontology).

All notions of justice presuppose ontology and anthropology, and so a revolution in fundamental anthropology will invariably transform the meaning and content of justice and bring about its own morality. We are beginning to feel the force of this transformation in civil society and the political order. Court decisions invalidating traditional marriage law fall from the sky like rain. The regulatory state and ubiquitous new global media throw their ever increasing weight behind the new understanding of marriage and its implicit anthropology, which treats our bodies as raw material to be used as we see fit. Today a rigorous new public morality inverts and supplants the residuum of our Christian moral inheritance.

This compels us to reconsider the civic project of American Christianity that has for the most part guided our participation in the liberal public order for at least a century. Encompassing the Social Gospel movement of the early twentieth century and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops at the beginning of the twenty-first, this project has transcended the historical and theological division between Catholics and Protestants. This has been particularly the case as Protestant adherence to divisive confessional commitments has declined and Evangelicals, filling the void left by the decline of mainline Protestantism, have found common ground with Catholics on moral and social issues in the aftermath of Roe v. Wade. Though popular imagination identifies this project in its latter stages with political conservatism, it also transcends the division between the Christian left and the Christian right, which Michiganpartly explains why their opposing arguments so often appear as mirror images of one another.

Of course, for Protestants, the fate of the United States and the fate of American Protestantism have been deeply intertwined from the very beginning, so adherence to the civic project must stem not simply from confidence that American liberty was generally hospitable to the flourishing of Christianity but from a deep, if inchoate, conviction that the American experiment itself was the political outworking of a Protestant sense of “nature and nature’s God.” For Catholics, whose experience in this country was at least initially very different from that of Protestants, common commitment to this project is testimony to the long shadow cast by John Courtney Murray. Catholics generally find his argument for the compatibility of Catholicism with the principles of the American founding convincing because they believe that the argument has been vindicated by the growth and assimilation of the Church in the United States and by the apparent vitality of American Catholicism in comparison with Catholicism in Europe. Rarely do political or theological disagreements penetrate deeply enough to disturb this shared foundation. Liberal or conservative, postconciliar Catholicism in America is essentially Murrayite.

Broadly speaking, we may characterize the civic project of American Christianity as the attempt to harmonize Christianity and liberal order and to anchor American public philosophy in the substance of Protestant morality, Catholic social teaching, or some version of natural law that might qualify as public reason. George Weigel articulated one of the assumptions animating protagonists on all sides of this project when in Tranquilitas Ordinis he wrote that “there is no contradiction between the truth claims of Catholicism and the American democratic experiment.” This assertion rests on some form of Murray’s familiar distinction between articles of faith and articles of peace. This view defines the state as a juridical order that exists principally for the purpose of securing public order and protecting our ability to act on our own initiative. It therefore renounces all competence in religious and ontological matters. This ostensibly modest view of government opens up space that is then filled with the Christian substance that animates civil society.

One needn’t be ungrateful for the genuine achievements of American liberalism in order to question the wisdom of this project and its guiding assumptions. First, a purely juridical order devoid of metaphysical and theological judgment is as logically and theologically impossible as a pure, metaphysically innocent science. One cannot set a limit to one’s own religious competence without an implicit judgment about what falls on the other side of that limit; one cannot draw a clear and distinct boundary between the political and the religious, or between science, metaphysics, and theology, without tacitly determining what sort of God transcends these realms. The very act by which liberalism declares its religious incompetence is thus a theological act. Its supposed indifference to metaphysics conceals a metaphysics of original indifference. A thing’s relation to God, being a creature, makes no difference to its nature or intelligibility. Those are tacked on extrinsically through the free act of the agent.

Liberalism’s articles of peace thus mask tacit articles of faith in a particular eighteenth-century conception of nature and nature’s God, which also entails an eighteenth-century view of the Church. Moreover, liberalism refuses integration into any more comprehensive order over which it is not finally arbiter and judge. It establishes its peculiar absolutism, not as the exhaustive dictator of everything one can and cannot do—to the contrary, liberal order persists precisely by generating an ever expanding space for the exercise of private options—but as the all-encompassing totality within which atomic social facts are permitted to appear like so many Congregationalist polities, the horizon beyond which there is no outside. Hobbes’s thought aspired to this kind of sovereignty, and Locke’s thought more effectively achieved it, but it was Rousseau who really understood it.

If we analyze the liberal character of the American project in this deeper way, we find that there is room to accommodate many of the nuances and to circumvent many of the controversies about the American founding. It is not necessary, for instance, to settle every contested question in the interpretation of Locke, to regard the founding as a purely Lockean event, or to deny the presence of classical and Christian elements alongside the unmistakable Lockean elements. I would readily concede that, in the founders’ minds, the presupposition of republican self-government is not liberty in the form of license (Locke himself said as much) but the self-governed man who is master of his passions. One can also concede a good deal of truth in the notion of a Progressive “fall” when in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries a positive conception of rights supplanted the negative rights of the founders, and Progressives substituted, in Woodrow Wilson’s image, a “Darwinian” approach to the Constitution for the older, “Newtonian” one.

Wilson’s image is revealing, for it captures the dependence of political philosophy on natural philosophy, and it rightly locates the early modern revolution in political thought within the broader revolution in natural philosophy and metaphysics, the one that conflated nature and art, knowing and making, in ways that so concerned Jonas. The prevailing nominalism, voluntarism, and mechanism infected eighteenth-century assumptions about nature and nature’s God with a built-in obsolescence. Therefore, it is fair to say that the ontological presuppositions of liberal political theory were fated to undermine the classical and Christian moral inheritance and the nobility of liberalism’s own ideals. For instance, inasmuch as the founders’ notion of free self-government rests on an essentially Lockean conception of freedom as power outside and prior to truth (however much God or truth imposes an extrinsic obligation to obey, and however reasonable it is to do so in view of future rewards and punishments), then American liberty will eventually erode the moral and cultural foundations of civil society inherited from Protestant Christianity. The founders fretted over this possibility in their own lifetimes.

John Locke in the Second Treatise remarked that law enlarges the scope of freedom. He does not appear to have considered the converse, that freedom enlarges the scope of law. But insofar as liberal freedom is atomistic and precludes the claim of others on the property that is my person, the state tasked with securing this liberty will exist to protect me from God’s commandments, the demands of other persons, so-called intermediary institutions, and, ultimately, even nature itself. The liberal state then becomes the mediator of all human relations, charged with creating in reality the denatured individuals heretofore existing only at the theoretical foundations of liberalism.

The result, as Pierre Manent and others have observed, is a paradoxical coincidence of absolutism and libertarianism, indeed an absolutism that grows in proportion to the increase in liberty. For every clarification of negative rights brings with it an increase in the scope and power of the state to secure and enforce them. The line between negative rights and positive entitlements is thus inherently blurry. If I am to have a right to free speech, for example, then I must be empowered to speak and be heard, which means using the power of the state to give me the resources I need and to suppress anything that might disempower me. Finally, insofar as a mechanistic understanding of nature and a pragmatic conception of truth are the correlates of the abstract individual and the liberal notion of freedom as power, even a MichiganNewtonian understanding of nature, reason, and freedom will eventually destroy the foundations for the rationality of natural law, as reason is reduced to the calculation of forces and law becomes an Michiganextrinsic imposition.

The civic project has taken as gospel MichiganMurray’s conviction that the founders “built better than they knew.” But this presupposes the very thing in question: that the state and its institutions are merely juridical and that they neither enforce nor are informed by the ontological and anthropological judgments inherent in their creation. That exactly the opposite has more or less come to pass suggests rather that the founders built worse than they intended, that the founding was in some sense ill-fated. This does not make liberty any less of an ideal or its obvious blessings any less real. It simply suggests a tragic flaw in the American understanding and articulation of it. Nor need this diminish our affection for our country, though it is an endlessly fascinating question, what American patriotism really means today. One can love his country despite its philosophy, provided there is more to the country than its philosophy. Yet it is surely a sign of the impoverishment of common culture and the common good—and an index of the degree to which liberal order has succeeded in establishing itself as both—that we are virtually required to equate love of country with devotion to the animating philosophy of the regime rather than to, say, the tales of our youth, the lay of the land and the bend in the road, and “peace and quiet and good tilled earth.”

This creates a great temptation for protagonists on all sides of the civic project—right, left, and in between—to conflate their Christian obligation to pursue the common good with the task of upholding liberal order, effectively eliminating any daylight between the civic and Christian projects. For example, virtually absent from our lament over the threats to religious freedom in the juridical sense is any mention of that deeper freedom opened up by the transcendent horizon of Christ’s resurrection, though this was a frequent theme of Pope Benedict’s papacy. If we cannot see beyond the juridical meaning of religious freedom to the freedom that the truth itself gives, how then can we expect to exercise this more fundamental freedom when our juridical freedom is denied? Too often we are content to accept the absolutism of liberal order, which consists in its capacity to establish itself as the ultimate horizon, to remake everything within that horizon in its own image, and to establish itself as the highest good and the condition of possibility for the pursuit of all other goods—including religious freedom.

There are important debates about how and why the liberal order has attained this dangerous, all-encompassing absolutism. Patrick Deneen evokes its main contours in his American Conservative article “A Catholic Showdown Worth Watching.” He describes a debate between “radical” Catholicism and “neoconservative” Catholicism. The neoconservative Catholic often draws attention to a progressive fall from classical liberalism, while the radical Catholic sees our current crisis as the outworking of liberalism’s deepest premises. Not surprisingly, therefore, the radical Catholic thinks it necessary to engage liberal order in a fundamental, ontological critique, while the neoconservative Catholic settles for a moral, sociological, legal, or political approach. He thinks energies are best spent recalling America to its founding principles, in hopes of preserving the dwindling space of freedom for Christians in the public square. The radical Catholic is more likely to counsel preparing for the day when filing another lawsuit is no longer enough. The same contrasts play out among Protestants, largely along the same lines.

This is a debate worth having, for it addresses fundamental questions about the structure of being, the nature of human beings, and the relations between nature and grace, faith and reason, and the political and ecclesial orders. I am inclined toward the “radical Catholic” side of this debate, convinced that unless and until we engage in a thorough reassessment of the metaphysical and crypto-theological conceits of liberalism, we will find ourselves coopted by it, unwittingly serving its project even as we bemoan and increasingly are afflicted by its excesses.

Yet I wonder whether at some level this debate has not already been overtaken by events. Even if all parties were to agree that American republicanism is not classically liberal, or that classical liberalism really is ontologically indifferent, or that the laws of nature and of nature’s God are the foundation of constitutional order and that these are the same thing as natural law—even if, in other words, all parties were to agree to some version of a pristine American founding harmonious in principle with the truth of God and the human being—returning to the first principles of the eighteenth century isn’t much more realistic than a return to the first principles of the thirteenth. For in its enforcement of the sexual revolution, the state is effectively codifying ontological and anthropological presuppositions. In redefining marriage and the family, the state not only embarks on an unprecedented expansion of its powers into realms heretofore considered prior to or outside its reach, and not only does it usurp functions and prerogatives once performed by intermediary associations within civil society, it also exercises these powers by tacitly redefining what the human being is and committing the nation to a decidedly post-Christian (and ultimately post-human) anthropology and philosophy of nature.

To understand this, let us ask: What must one take for granted in order for same-sex marriage to be intelligible? (This is not a question about the motives or beliefs—which can seem quite humane—of those who support same-sex marriage.) It is commonly argued that marriage is no longer principally about the procreation and the rearing of children but that it centers instead on the companionship of the couple and the building of a household. The courts have repeatedly accepted this reasoning. And yet, if same-sex marriage is to be truly equal to natural marriage in the eyes of society and the law, then all the rights and privileges of marriage—including those involving the procreation and rearing of children—must in principle belong to both kinds of marriage, irrespective of the motives impelling a couple toward marriage or whether, once married, they exercise these rights and privileges.

With same-sex couples this can be achieved only by technological means. And so the case for companionate marriage has been supplemented again and again by the argument that we must endorse reproductive technologies that eliminate any relevant difference between a male–female couple and a same-sex couple. This elevates these technologies from a remedy for infertility, what they principally have been, to a normative form of reproduction equivalent and perhaps even superior to natural procreation. But if there is no meaningful difference between a male–female couple conceiving a child naturally and same-sex couples conceiving children through surrogates and various technological means, then it follows that nothing of ontological significance attaches to natural motherhood and fatherhood or to having a father and a mother. These roles and relations are not fundamentally natural phenomena integral to human identity and social welfare but are mere accidents of biology overlaid with social conventions that can be replaced by functionally equivalent roles without loss. The implications are enormous: existential changes to the relation between kinship and personal identity, legal redefinitions of the relation between natural kinship and parental rights, and practical, biotechnical innovations that are only beginning to emerge into view and will be defended as necessary for a liberal society.

This rejection of nature is manifest in the now orthodox distinction between sex, which is “merely biological,” and gender, defined as a construct either of oppressive social norms or of the free, self-Michigandefining subject—one often finds protagonists of this revolution oscillating back and forth between those polar extremes. And this sex–gender distinction, in turn, is premised upon a still more basic dualism, which bifurcates the human being into a mechanical body composed of meaningless material stuff subject to deterministic physical laws and of the free, spontaneous will that indifferently presides over it. This anthropology denies from the outset that nature and the body have any intrinsic form or finality beyond what the will gives itself in its freedom, and thus it fails to integrate human biology and sexual difference into the unity of the person. Indeed, the classical Aristotelian nature and the Christian idea of the human being as body and soul united as an indivisible and integrated whole are excluded from the outset.

Whether this is the logical outworking of the metaphysical and anthropological premises of liberalism or a radically new thing—and Hans Jonas’s analysis would suggest that these are not mutually exclusive alternatives—it marks a point of no return in American public philosophy. And it effectively brings the civic project of American Christianity to an end.

This is not to say that Christians should disengage or retreat, the usual misinterpretation of the so-called Benedict Option. There is no ground to retreat to, for the liberal order claims unlimited jurisdiction and permits no outside. We do not have the option of choosing our place within it if we wish to remain Christian. We cannot avoid the fact that this new philosophy, once it is fully instantiated, will in all likelihood deprive Christians of effective participation in the public square. Hobby Lobby notwithstanding, appeals to religious liberty, conceived as the freedom to put one’s idiosyncratic beliefs into practice with minimal state interference, are not likely to fare well over the long haul as these beliefs come to seem still more idiosyncratic, as religious practice comes into conflict with more “fundamental” rights, and as the state’s mediation of familial relations becomes ever more intrusive. And attempts to restore religious freedom to its proper philosophical place, as something like the sine qua non of freedom itself, presuppose just the view of human nature and reason that our post-Christian liberalism rejects from the outset.

To say that the civic project of American Christianity is at an end is not to say that it will simply cease, however. There will no doubt be those who continue to fight on, like Japanese holdouts after the Second World War, unaware that the war is over. And they should carry on in some fashion, doomed though the civic project may be. Religious freedom is worth defending after all, even in its flawed liberal sense, and Hobby Lobby shows us that it is still possible to win some battles while losing the war. Moreover, if liberalism is indeed absolute, so that there is no longer any outside, then a contest of rights is really the only ground on which liberal public reason will permit itself to be publicly engaged.

Yet something greater than liberal freedom is at stake. There seems to be a prevailing sense that this moment is something of a kairos for American Christianity, a moment of deep change in the public significance of Christianity and a moment of decision in the life of the Church. When George Weigel concedes his naivete over the possibility of a “Catholic moment” in America and concludes that the West no longer understands freedom, or when Robert George solemnly declares to the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast the end of “comfortable” Christianity, then you know that the times they are a-changin’. Perhaps this kairos is a chance for some sort of synthesis rather than a showdown, for an opportunity to rediscover those dimensions of Christian existence that comfortable Christianity has caused us to neglect, and an opportunity not simply to confront but also to serve our country in a new and deeper way.

This synthesis cannot be a political one, as if the civic project of American Christianity could be revived by rejiggered coalitions or a new united front. We must rather conceive of it principally as a form of witness. Here some elements of the Benedict Option become essential: educating our children, rebuilding our parishes, and patiently building little bulwarks of truly humanist culture within our decaying civilization. This decay is internal as well as external, for while the civic project has been a spectacular failure at Christianizing liberalism, it has been wildly successful at liberalizing Christianity.

A witness is, first, one who sees. And none of these efforts are likely to come to much unless we are able to see outside the ontology of liberalism to the truth of things, to enter more deeply into the meaning of our creaturehood. Only then can we rediscover, as a matter of reason,the truth of the human being, the truth of freedom, and the truth of truth itself. It is no accident that Benedict XVI placed the spirit of monasticism at the foundation of any authentically human culture. For nothing less than an all-consuming quest for God, one that lays claim to heart, soul, and mind, will suffice to save Christianity from this decaying civilization—or this civilization from itself.

This quest requires an internal renewal of theology and philosophy—not merely as academic disciplines, but as ways of life—and they need to be brought to bear on the governing assumptions, the unarticulated ontology of our culture. In other words, we will need a much more penetrating ontological engagement with the first principles of liberal and secular order than has heretofore characterized American Christian thought. We will need a deeper assessment of how liberal principles shape both the objects of our thought and the very form of our thinking. Only thus can we really hope to come to grips with the true depths of our predicament and help our liberal culture understand the truth about itself and the profound implications of its present course toward an impoverished absolutism now poised to seize control of the most primitive junction between nature and culture—the family itself.

This labor is contemplative before it is active. It is not primarily political; indeed, everything in our politics and in our culture seems predisposed against it. To the extent that we Americans can be said to have a philosophy, it is pragmatism, which is less a philosophy than a trick the devil uses to entice philosophy into killing itself. One need only note the sheer absence of thought that has accompanied the revolution of liberal absolutism to see how successful this trick has been. To speak of freedom as something more than immunity from coercion, to speak of nature as something other than so many accidental aggregations of malleable matter at our disposal, to speak of truth as something other than pragmatic function, is to place oneself outside the rule of public reason and to risk becoming a stranger to the public square. To undertake this labor, in other words, is to risk becoming what liberal absolutism would make of each of us anyway: a man without a country.

Even so, to see and to think are not without political effect. We have seen that the liberal state cannot really limit itself; its act of self-abnegation is the very act by which it refuses integration into an order of nature or grace that precedes and exceeds it. Only the Church can really limit the state, which is why the existence of the Church is a perennial problem for it. Ultimately, the Church’s limitation of the state depends on our ability to recover a genuine understanding of the Church’s true nature and to regard ourselves not simply as a so-called intermediate association within the state and civil society but as the true whole, the heavenly city, that precedes and transcends them. This contradicts the implicit ecclesiology of liberalism, which recognizes no universality but itself. Knowing only “denominations,” it can acknowledge no truly catholic Christianity. And yet, to see the truth of God and the human person, even through a glass darkly, is already to begin to live in accord with something greater than liberal absolutism. It is already to limit the state in some measure, for it is already to see beyond liberalism’s immanent horizons.

Sustaining this vision will require disciplined reflection, and this labor is daunting enough. Yet it will also require a countercultural way of life, a deep faith in the goodness of God and in the intelligibility of creation, and real hope in the transcendent vantage, beyond our immanent success or failure, opened up by the Resurrection. It will take a great deal of courage and not a little imagination to risk failure, powerlessness, and cultural and political irrelevance—to be, in Pope Francis’s words, a less “worldly” Church—for the sake of the truth.

I have long thought the civic project of American Christianity an implausible enterprise that underestimates the imperial ambition of liberalism’s metaphysical conceits. However, as the civic project of American Christianity and its hopes of providing moral and metaphysical ballast to our liberal polity come to an end, let us not allow liberal absolutism to control our sense of what is possible. Yes, liberalism today refuses to license the conviction that human beings have a natural end, and to speak in this way puts one in violation of the canons of public reason. Yet to live in witness to the truth simply because it is true is already to have exercised religious freedom in its deepest form, a freedom that passeth liberal understanding. It is already to have done something when there is nothing else that can be done. This freedom cannot be taken away; indeed, it often grows in proportion to the attempts to suppress it. But it can be given away, through failures of courage and poverty of thought and imagination. It is this freedom that will be the ground for a new Christian mode of serving the common good in the “post-human” dispensation in which liberalism is all we’re allowed to have in common. Weigel alludes to it, perhaps, when he laments our misunderstanding of freedom, and George gestures toward it more directly when he prophesies the end of Christian comfort. This is the freedom that the truth itself gives and that the Church in our society will increasingly be called to exercise as the revolution overseen by liberal absolutism proceeds along its present course: the freedom to suffer for the truth of the Gospel.
 

Whiskeyjack

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The NYT's Ross Douthat just published a blog post titled "Pew and the Three American Worldviews":

Having offered some cautions about over-interpreting the findings of the latest Pew religion survey, let me throw that caution to the wind and offer a quick interpretation myself. A few times in the past — this old column, this recent post — I’ve played with the idea that we have three major worldviews sharing space in American culture, which you might label biblical, spiritual and secular respectively. (The “spiritual” category overlaps substantially with the “nation of heretics” described in my last book.) Here’s how I tried to sketch this division — in the context of the Christmas story, hence the references — two years back:

Many Americans still … accept the New Testament as factual, believe God came in the flesh, and endorse the creeds that explain how and why that happened. And then alongside traditional Christians, there are observant Jews and Muslims who believe the same God revealed himself directly in some other historical and binding form.

But this biblical world picture is increasingly losing market share to what you might call the spiritual world picture, which keeps the theological outlines suggested by the manger scene — the divine is active in human affairs, every person is precious in God’s sight — but doesn’t sweat the details.

This is the world picture that red-staters get from Joel Osteen, blue-staters from Oprah, and everybody gets from our “God bless America” civic religion. It’s Christian-ish but syncretistic; adaptable, easygoing and egalitarian. It doesn’t care whether the angel really appeared to Mary: the important thing is that a spiritual version of that visitation could happen to anyone — including you.

Then, finally, there’s the secular world picture, relatively rare among the general public but dominant within the intelligentsia. This worldview keeps the horizontal message of the Christmas story but eliminates the vertical entirely. The stars and angels disappear: There is no God, no miracles, no incarnation. But the egalitarian message — the common person as the center of creation’s drama — remains intact, and with it the doctrines of liberty, fraternity and human rights.

Inevitably, these labels are overbroad, they don’t work for many churches, groups and individuals, and gray areas abound. Most Americans (of varying levels of religious devotion) and many religious institutions (of varying theologies) straddle the biblical/spiritual dichotomy, or would fall on one side of the other depending on who sets up the rubrics. And then no matter where you draw the lines, you’ll end up with groups that seem like they need to be parsed further — with a “biblical” category that includes believers who hold the Koran or the Book of Mormon sacred; with a “spiritual” category that includes Republican-voting Osteen readers and New Age-y liberals alike; with a “secular” category that includes Dawkins-reading militant atheists, Jewish agnostics who send their kids to Hebrew school, and working class guys who never had much interest in church and stopped going after their divorce.

Yet I still think that at the big picture level, this division is a useful heuristic … and one that can be applied to the new Pew data in interesting ways. Basically, the biggest thing we’re seeing happening, visible in those declining religious affiliation numbers and the steady rise of the “nones,” is that part of what I’m calling the vast “spiritual” middle of American life is drifting in a more secular direction. I say drifting because disaffiliation is not enough to define a person as secular, and indeed one of the striking things about the unaffiliated is how many of them still have religious habits — prayer, belief in God or an afterlife, etc. — and how few explicitly self-identify as atheists. You can be a “none,” in other words, and belong more to the metaphysically-minded American middle than to the post-religious end of the spectrum.

But the tug toward the fully secular is presumably stronger once institutional bonds are left behind, and on the evidence of the Pew numbers that tug seems to be having an effect. A quarter of the “nones” called themselves atheists or agnostics in 2007, now (out of a larger total population) almost a third do, and as my colleague David Leonhardt points out you can also see an increase in religious indifference, people declining to call themselves atheists but describing spiritual concerns as simply unimportant, within the nonaffiliated population. So in the gray area where the spiritual meets the secularized, secularism seems to be gaining ground.

Then what about the gray area on the other side, where the “biblical” end of the spectrum meets the Oprah-Osteen middle? Here things are more complicated. As I noted in my last post, you don’t see a clear trend toward declining churchgoing over the last ten years, which could suggest that most of the ongoing action is among the weakly-attached, and the landscape has stabilized in the zone of stronger attachment and belief. (This is especially plausible if you suspect that the Pew data showing steep Catholic decline is an outlier.)

But if you look at evangelical Christianity, the demographic for which the “biblical” label fits particularly well, you do see an interesting churn: The evangelical population is holding steady or increasing slightly in the Pew data (a fact that evangelicals have not been shy in pointing out), but evangelical denominations (the Southern Baptists, most notably) are plateau-ing and losing ground while non-denominational churches gain instead.

So in that sense evangelicalism is not a complete exception to the pattern of institutional weakening that’s more visible in the Mainline and somewhat visible in Catholicism. And for the future, a lot depends on the direction the growing “nondenominational” evangelicalism ends up taking. Are these newer independent churches “indistinguishable … in theology and ecclesiology” from conservative denominations, as Joe Carter suggests, and therefore just an extension of evangelical Christianity as it currently exists? Or might some of them be trending, absent denominational and confessional ties, in the direction of an Osteen-ish prosperity theology or a Rob Bell Oprahism or something else that starts out light on doctrine and “seeker-sensitive” and ends up doctrine-free, still “biblical” in name but “spiritual” in content?

If it’s the former, then what Pew is showing really is mostly just movement on the spiritual-to-secular end of the religious spectrum, which might polarize the country further but which isn’t reshaping the landscape of regular practice and belief. But in the latter scenario, where the modest drift away from evangelical denominations is a harbinger of a drift away from evangelical theology and orthodoxy, then the shift Pew is showing might be bigger — more of a full-spectrum change, in which the entire country’s religious norms are swinging even further away from the traditional expressions of Christian faith.
 

Old Man Mike

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If one wants a country to have a Culture, then that country must be founded on MANY deeply shared beliefs which address the biggest most profound questions. The USA hasn't had a Culture for many years now. The USA in fact has been founded with principles destined to surely grind away over time any such profoundly shared commonalities.

In such a country, the appeal of any system of belief cannot count on mere common transmission from one generation to the next if the population of that country is not mostly desperately lower-class and in dire need for something to base Hope upon. The USA isn't such a place either. In fact the USA middle-class [despite what some politicians on both sides of the aisle with different motivations say] has it pretty good. A young person can usually own personal electronics, fashion clothes, and even automobiles as USA-normal. Where the next meal comes from is not an issue --- where the next vacation goes to is.

And all these people go away from home and go to college. There they are hormone-factories-in-heat living in high-freedom four-year eugenics farms where the message is: you're healthy, strong, and headed on the four-lane highway to wealth. Whole generations spend their mental formative years believing that they need nothing or at most a supportive significant other. What does religion offer? At the average college, religion receives no defense, and may get massive ignorance if not all the way to derision.

If religion is to survive let alone grow in these conditions, it better offer something --- offer something even tangible in some sense. Evangelicals do this. Their high-energy, high-promises church meetings offer "juice" for the body and allegedly the soul. You can get "fired up" at such a ceremony in ways not much like a Catholic mass. To gain church members, Catholicism must offer something overt. [though not imitative revivalist rock concerts].

The last two Popes in my opinion practically killed Catholicism with their cold-hearted legalistic prohibitionist-styles of projecting closed-mindedness and unwelcoming exteriors. This new Pope is trying to reverse the entire negative facade of the institutional Church. Hopefully he is in time, and the donkey-stubborn idiots do not thwart his amazing emphasis on welcoming others.

Beyond a new refreshing Pope, the Church needs to get as grass-roots as possible. We need to continue the Deep Sacredness in our presentation of the sacraments, but also show off the myriad of astonishingly heroic works by some priests, but many more nuns and laity. These works ARE Catholicism and what we have to offer --- meaning and purpose in a meaningless and purposeless opposing world.

All these "analyses" that I continually read miss the simple basic fact: individuals want to be involved with something meaningful and which addresses real longings and needs that they have. The modern money-and-stuff-first world is trying to tell everyone that there is nothing that they can't get as long as they have money. This, sooner or later, reveals itself to be crap [I recall the credit card ads stating that you could buy happiness and showing a hot-and-now fool smiling, sitting in the lotus position with a car behind him.] [I once collected an entire notebook of these atrocities just from a few months of magazines].

Few persons stay self-centered consumerist dingbats all their lives. Almost every person finally sees that life without larger purpose and without larger community is not only empty but terrorizing. The Catholic New Testament-based message of Love [real love, not crude grab-it passion] is a complete curative for that devastation of the soul.

Catholicism, to use a rather off-tune analogy, has "something to sell" that all the other crap is entirely without. But we haven't been selling it. Now with Francis, we're starting to.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Here's an article by Jake Meador titled "Home, Retreat and the Benedict Option":

Just off a state highway in northern Iowa there is a place called Littlefield Abbey. It’s a two-bedroom farmhouse on about five acres of land on the edge of a small Iowa town that belongs to a pastor at a church in the nearby town. If you don’t know it’s there, you’ll drive right past it down the highway.

But if you know the place you’ll turn down the drive and come down a bending driveway with a canopy of trees hanging overhead. You’ll come round the bend and see an old fountain, a large front porch, a barn, two cabins, and a host of animals. There are, predictably enough I suppose, an overwhelming number of farm cats. There are several goats and chickens. There is an old dog named Jewel. You’ll hear her before you see her, but there is also a dairy cow named Phronzie (pronounced fron-zee) who, for whatever reason, is much easier to milk when she is being sung to.

If you have read Lewis’s That Hideous Strength then imagine St. Anne’s-on-the-Hill in small-town Iowa and you understand Littlefield Abbey. It wouldn’t surprise me to walk into the bathroom at Littlefield Abbey and find a large brown bear docilely lounging by the bathtub. Nor would I be surprised if Heidi, one half of the couple that owns the home, were to walk into the bathroom and cheerfully shoo him out as if it were the most ordinary thing in the world. If you have not read Lewis’s marvelous book, then imagine a cross between The Swiss Family Robinson and Professor Kirke’s home in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Littlefield Abbey is a place where the creativity, work, and thrift of the former meets the delight, mystery, and joy of the latter.

Likewise in Rochester MN there was a place called Toad Hall. It’s an old prairie box home located on West Center Street about a mile west of Mayo Clinic. It was home to Denis and Margie Haack, co-directors of Ransom Fellowship. Influenced by L’Abri and the writings of Francis and Edith Schaeffer, Denis and Margie came to Rochester in the early 80s from their home in New Mexico in order to study with Dr Schaeffer while he received treatment for cancer at Mayo Clinic. Their children, accustomed to the adobe houses of New Mexico, called the home Toad Hall because it reminded them of Toad’s home in The Wind in the Willows. After Schaeffer died in 1984, the Haacks stayed on and created another place of refuge and hospitality, where people could be truly seen and welcomed. The Haacks have since moved from Toad Hall to a new house they are calling The House Between, but everyone who received their hospitality at Toad Hall will remember that place.

Both of these places, Littlefield Abbey and Toad Hall, have in different ways derived something of their life from the work of L’Abri, which I already mentioned above. The simplest way of defining L’Abri is to call it a residential study center founded by Francis and Edith Schaeffer in their Swiss home in 1955. But to reduce L’Abri to those terms is like reducing a perfectly cooked steak to an exact yet unimaginative phrase like “a large amount of protein.” It’s accurate but somehow wrong.

Today L’Abri has a dozen branches scattered around the world in places ranging from Rochester, MN (where I lived for two summers) to the Schaeffer’s old home in Huemoz, Switzerland. In fact, my family is currently spending a couple days in Rochester as students and I am writing this in the main house, sitting in a chair looking out the large back window onto what we call “the point,” which is a drop off in the backyard where we have a fire pit and lawn furniture that overlooks all of downtown Rochester. Though it has been nine years since I lived in this place as a student I have continually come back to it as a sort of spiritual home. “Home” is the best way of defining L’Abri.

Home, of course is an increasingly foreign idea to many of our friends and neighbors and even, sadly, to Christians—which is precisely what makes L’Abri necessary. Many of us haven’t experienced home because the dominant values of our current society, as well as its daily routines and economies, are almost without fail antagonistic to home-life. You can sum up the modern west with a quote from Justice Sandra Day O’Connor which was later quoted by Justice Anthony Kennedy: “At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

This notion of defining one’s own concept of existence necessitates a commitment to capitalism, which materially enables the self-expression, as well as a resistance to older understandings of being human that would, if practiced, constrain our individual autonomy.

As a result, we are taught to seek out self-fulfillment through market-oriented work while neglecting older forms of human community, most notably the family and the home in which the family has thrived. Our children, what few we have, are raised in daycares maintained by “professional” childcare workers while their parents work elsewhere. These same children are then educated in government-run schools designed to eventually produce good workers that will reinforce this ideology. Our homes lie empty much of the day while both parents work and then serve as consumption centers for 2-3 hours at night before everyone goes to bed.


As Wendell Berry has written elsewhere, the modern idea of marriage, two careerists deciding between themselves how to share resources, has all the conditions of divorce. The trajectory of our lives is thus a constant tugging away from home, place, and relationships of affection and toward abstractions like “professional success,” “individual expression,” and “self-fulfillment.” This is true even in many Christian circles. The result of all this is the destruction of any clear notion of home because no other result can happen when we dedicate ourselves so completely to life outside the home. L’Abri and the places it has inspired are, by their very nature, a strong rebuke of that inhumane, machine-like society, a world that Tolkien would say had a mind of metal.

So when I say that L’Abri is home, I mean that it is a refuge from all that, that it is a place where people are treated as human creatures made in God’s image deserving of dignity. The work that became L’Abri began because the Schaeffers’ oldest daughter was attending college in Zurich in the 1950s and was meeting students who in many ways anticipated the sort of students that would spark the cultural revolutions of the 1960s in Europe and America. Many of these students would come to the Schaeffers’ home on weekends and find themselves falling into conversation with Francis about the various questions they were asking and thinking about while at university.

And Dr Schaeffer, unlike many Christians in his day, not only was capable of keeping up with their questions and reading, but actually loved to do so. He had read Sartre and Camus and many of the other leftist writers of post-war Europe. Later he would come to know the films of Ingmar Bergman and would listen to the Beatles and Pink Floyd. Indeed, Schaeffer discussed these films and musicians while lecturing at Christian universities in America throughout the 1960s at a time when most of these schools didn’t even allow their students to see any movies, let alone the work of a filmmaker like Bergman.

All of these things found their way into his daily talk with students as well as his lectures. Most of the students that came, including one who would become a L’Abri worker himself and who would be my tutor during my first stay here, hadn’t met a religious believer like that, a believer who actually showed an interest in the things they loved. But Schaeffer did. He believed, as he said many times, that honest questions deserve honest answers. And he wanted their family’s home to be a part of answering those questions for the students that his children kept bringing home.

So over the next 29 years he and his wife Edith created a place in which honest questions could be received, discussed, and, in time, answered. Edith’s remarkable gift for hospitality, place-making, and cooking played a major role in the creation of this place. Together the Schaeffers made L’Abri the sort of place where questions could be considered and answered in a way that went beyond mere debate and the exchanging of cognitive principles and ideas that simply lived in one’s head. It’s one thing to argue theology over a cheap burger and fries at the local greasy spoon. It’s quite another thing to do so in a home that lives up to that great and oft-abused word.

Jock McGregor, my tutor during my second term at L’Abri, explained it to me this way: He said that L’Abri is a place that challenges it’s non-Christian students by sharing the Christian faith with them while also welcoming them with a hospitality that is directly attributable to that faith. So as these students consider the intellectual claims of the faith they can’t simply look at the teachings of the faith in an exclusively intellectual way. They are not just principles to be affirmed or rejected. These students are forced to reckon with the undeniable delight of the place and the fact that the people who have created it say it all comes from Christianity. You are, essentially, being asked whether you believe in apples as you enjoy a slice of apple pie.

This is, of course, how all evangelization ought to work but most of the people reading this essay, Christian or not, will have had the experience of being lectured by a boorish believer about why their religious beliefs are true. In such circumstances it is easy to dismiss the person with an exasperated wave of one’s hand. L’Abri, however, is a place that resists such simple dismissals of religious life.

In light of recent conversations, you might reasonably think that L’Abri sounds an awful lot like Rod Dreher’s much-discussed Benedict Option. It’s an intentional community in which people, many of whom are Christian though not all, share life together in a way that resists the accelerated pace and materialist values of the modern west. Indeed, the word “retreat” has often been used to describe L’Abri and L’Abri itself may even invite that characterization since it’s name is the French word for shelter.

But it’s significant that L’Abri’s impact has not been limited to its own institutional life. Nor can L’Abri’s work be reduced down to the thing that a former resident learned while living there or the way it equipped a former resident to do market-focused task X. These are the measures of many modern institutions, of course. They are most notably the measure of the modern university which has become as much a part of the post-industrial “knowledge economy” as Wall Street. But it is not the measure of L’Abri. Rather, L’Abri has become a different world and it has begotten other places like it, places like Littlefield Abbey and Toad Hall.

The begetting is the key. The Benedict Option cannot simply be a refuge or haven from the forces that exist outside of it. It must also be an incubator, a place that remakes the world. If the Benedict Option is not an incubator as well as a retreat it will fail. The world outside does not regard these places with benign indifference. It will either attack them directly as we may see in the post-same-sex marriage world or it will simply eat away at them over time through more gradual but no less deadly means.

This is why Dreher rightly insists that the Benedict Option would be necessary even without the added challenges posed by same-sex marriage. The technocratic, materialist west will grind these places down into nothing just as the industrial economy has obliterated the idea of human people existing as creatures in a family.

Yet this work is not hopeless. The 60 years of L’Abri tell us what can happen in time as these places transform the minds and hearts of the people who come to them and help them to imagine another world. The work of L’Abri is no longer confined to those dozen places that are explicitly affiliated with the institution. It does continue there, but it has also unleashed the people touched by those places to remake the world in their local contexts. Thus it moves forward in places like Littlefield Abbey and Toad Hall, places where the possibility of another world seems immediate and tangible thanks to the warmth, tenderness, and delight that seems to almost exist innately in the place.

A year or so ago I asked a friend who had worked for Russell Kirk what it was like to live at the Kirk’s legendary home in Mecosta, MI. He said that crossing the threshold into the house was like entering another world, like stepping into the wardrobe and sweeping aside the fur coats to discover a snowy forest, a lone lamppost, and a faun walking by carrying a parcel. He also said that if Christianity is ever going to thrive again in the west it will only do so by creating places like that.

We cannot, I took him to mean, go on living our lives in basically parallel ways alongside the non-Christian culture in which the only substantive differences between us and them exist in our heads. The differences must run deeper because if they do not then our Christianity will wither in time, worn away by the forces of a materialistic western culture that knows little of the humane values of love, affection, and humility, all of which are necessary for human flourishing. If the church is to thrive, then we must create places of warmth and hospitality. We must create homes for ourselves and for those unfortunates who have never had a home.

But the demands of home are practical demands. Creating a home takes time and requires sacrifices of us. These demands force structures upon our lives that constrain our autonomy but through which we arrive at true freedom. This means that the differences of the faith must touch our material lives in tangible ways. We cannot go on having both parents work full-time jobs outside the home, thereby reducing the work of home-making to the coordination of consumption patterns and reducing the home itself to a kind of high-dollar storage shed. We cannot go on entrusting the formation of our children to government-run schools that reinforce rampant individualism and undermine more humane values. We cannot go on living life at a pace that makes silence and contemplation and the sharing of unhurried time impossible. These are the routines, habits, and customs that will eventually devour Christian community. We must, instead, find creative ways of cultivating places that remake the world, places like Littlefield Abbey, Toad Hall, and L’Abri.

Can't endorse that last paragraph strongly enough.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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Thought some of you might enjoy this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ggVbCVtPsZY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It certainly made me laugh.
 

Whiskeyjack

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In response to the Will Wilkinson article I posted in the Politics thread, the NYT's Ross Douthat just published an article titled "Caitlyn Jenner and the American Religion":

I’ve seen a few people quoting this Will Wilkinson essaylet on Caitlyn/Bruce and American Christianity, and it deserves to be quoted:

One of the enduring puzzles of America is why it has remained so robustly religious while its European cousins have secularised with startling rapidity. One stock answer is that America, colonised by religious dissenters and lacking an officially sanctioned creed, has always been a cauldron of religious competition and, therefore, innovation. The path to success in a competitive religious marketplace is the same as the path to success in business: give the people what they want.

Americans tend to want a version of Americanism, and they get it. Americanism is a frontier creed of freedom, of the inviolability of individual conscience and salvation as self-realisation. The American religion does Protestantism one better. Not only are we, each of us, qualified to interpret scripture, but also we each have a direct line to God. You can just feel Jesus. In my own American faith tradition, a minority version of Mormonism, the Holy Spirit—one of the guises of God—is a ubiquitous, pervasive presence. Like radio waves, you’ve just got to tune it in.

In a magisterial study, “The American Religion”, Harold Bloom maintains that the core of the inchoate American faith is the idea of a “Real Me” that is neither soul nor body, but an aspect of the divinity itself, a “spark of God”. To find God, then, is to burrow inward and excavate the true self from beneath the layers of convention and indoctrination. Crucially, this personal essence cannot fall under the jurisdiction of the “natural law” of God’s creation. Just as God stands outside His creation, so does the authentic self, which just is a piece of God. “[T]he American self is not the Adam of Genesis,” Mr Bloom writes, “but is a more primordial Adam, a Man before there were men or women.” … From the perspective of the American religion, as Mr Bloom explains it, a moral code based on something as debased as “nature” offensively denies our inherent divinity. “No American concedes that she is part of nature,” Mr Bloom says. Ms Jenner certainly has not conceded it.

Noting that Jenner identifies personally as a Christian (as well as, of course, with the Republican Party), Wilkinson suggests that his transformation into her, and the attendant applause, is an indicator “not of the secularisation of America, but of the ongoing Americanisation of Christianity,” in which the Jesus of Emerson and Whitman gains ground at the expense of “the Jesus of Thomas Aquinas or Martin Luther or John Knox or John Wesley.” This process, he suggests, is all-but-irresistible: From a politician’s vantage point, at least, “there’s no point dying in the last ditch to defend Old World dogma against the transformative advance of America’s native faith.”

This is a rich argument; let me offer a few points. I re-read Bloom’s book while attempting my own analysis of American Christianity’s transformations a few years ago, and through all my attempts to slice and dice the different varieties of American heresy I could hear Bloom’s stentorian voice in my ear saying, basically, you fool, they’re all the same thing. That is, a version of what Blooms calls our American gnosticism informs almost everything that’s distinctive in American religion — liberal spirituality and red-state religious nationalism, New Age questings and prosperity theology, the Latter Day Saints and non-denominational Protestantism, Joel Osteen and Deepak Chopra and every other guru or guide that we seek out. What my book calls, in one chapter, the cult of “the God Within,” and associates specifically with works like “Eat, Pray Love” and the public ministry of Oprah Winfrey, Bloom would describe as the defining feature of every American heresy, and define in roughly the terms Wilkinson quotes above.

It would have made my book much less interesting to just say that Bloom is entirely right, and indeed I don’t think he’s entirely right, because his theory risks the “explains everything, explains nothing” dynamic common to sweeping cultural analysis. At the very least, the differences between, say, a Christian nationalist like David Barton and a consciousness-raising outfit like the Esalen Institute, or between prosperity preachers à la Creflo Dollar and self-help gurus à la Eckhart Tolle, seem not only sociologically but theologically significant, and calling them all gnostic doesn’t deliver the illumination those differences deserve.

However, Bloom’s language definitely delivers something, and that something helps to illumine the strong religious element (however unstated or subconscious) in what we generally describe as social liberalism today. Since the 1960s that element has been addressed repeatedly by minds more brilliant than mine (from Philip Rieff to Robert Bellah), but it tends to slip out of view in public debates because the liberal vanguard, from its legal enablers to its journalistic cheering section, is so avowedly secular. And that slippage, in turn, limits our understanding of what’s really happening in our society.

The reality is that social liberalism simply would not be advancing so swiftly, on so many fronts, in our still-God-obsessed republic if it did not have a clear spiritual dimension as well. That dimension complicates the predictable attempts to analyze recent social trends in terms of “secular liberalism versus conservative religion,” to say nothing of “science versus faith.” (There’s precious little scientific argumentation at work, so far as I can see, in the apotheosis of Caitlyn Jenner.) And it also complicates dichotomies like the one advanced by Damon Linker in the piece I argued with a bit last week. In that piece Linker talked, partly convincingly, about the way a “morality of rights” increasingly trumps a “morality of ends” in American society. But as Wilkinson and Bloom and Jenner him/herself would all remind us, in America a rights-based morality wins converts in part because the rights it champions are still ordered in some sense toward a (very American) sort of end. Freedom is good in and of itself, to a point, but it’s ultimately good because it enables us to pursue God/the divine spark/the True Self/the Original Adam, and in finding it, fulfill our true destiny and reach our perfect end. Natural law or biblical morality aren’t being rejected in favor of a purposeless freedom, in other words, but rather in favor of a higher law that fulfills a higher purpose, bringing salvation neither through faith nor works but through a gnostic revelation about Who We Really Are.

As for whether the advance of this idea is as irresistible as Wilkinson suggests, I’m of several minds. On the one hand, it certainly seems to be at this particular moment; it’s Emerson and Whitman’s America these days, and the rest of us can feel like strangers passing through or Benedicts headed for our monasteries. On the other hand, the assumption that more traditional forms of Christianity would soon be Americanized out of existence is as old as the republic: What Wilkinson calls “old world dogma” was assumed to be on its way out when Puritanism lost its grip on New England, when Deism and Transcendentalism and Social Darwinism were all the coming thing, when liberal Protestantism seemed ascendant in the 1920s and 1930s … and yet again and again, various forms of Christian orthodoxy (Calvinist and Roman Catholic, evangelical and “neo-orthodox”) have recovered, risen, endured, thrived, and continued to play a shaping role in American life. Maybe this time is different; maybe we’ve finally reached the point where the working-out of the American idea firmly relegates historic Christianity, biblical Christianity, Augustine-Aquinas Christianity and Luther-Calvin Christianity to the sidelines and the margins. But I don’t know how serenely confident anyone should be about that.

The other interesting question is at what point the Americanization of Christian faith, if it does continue inexorably, will justify describing our nation’s dominant religion as something other than “Christianity.” (It isn’t only sex-reassignment surgery that raises the question of description.) Bloom’s book, written two decades ago, carried the subtitle “the emergence of the post-Christian nation,” which lets you know where he stood even back then, and his view of things is shared by many conservative Christians nowadays. Because I don’t think that a post-Christian point has arrived, my own preference is for the language of “heresy,” which captures American religion’s divergence from Christian tradition but also its continued dependence on Christian structures and habits and ideas. But that dependence clearly diminishes the further the advance of Americanization proceeds. So at some point, absent a snap-back or correction, Bloom’s subtitle will be fully justified, and the American religion will deserve a post-Christian name. But I won’t say that I hope to live to see it.
 

Old Man Mike

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I find the "new" intellectual dissections of who we are spiritually, morally, politically etc somewhat interesting, but, at my advanced fading brain age, tiring. In the midst of these "left brain" attempts to reach the Ultimate Realities, I never fail to finally Thank my God that The Spirit is always nearby to cut through the excess fog.

.... and, in a way, THAT is exactly what these analysts are {over}writing about.

At base, GOD is complete and incomplete at the same time. He WANTED something other than Himself, and so He created everything. But He wanted more than a complex toy; He wanted Love, being basically Love Himself. So, what does this have to do with these essays?

Love is the one thing, True Love, that you, even if you are God, cannot force. Love is relational and to be true must be freely given. The Creation is made to allow Love therefore it is at its base Free. Freedom is the basis for Love, the basis for the possibility of Communion, the reason that Purpose is possible. Freedom is the Great Essential.

Think of the symbols of America. The Statue of Liberty, The Lincoln Memorial, The Wild,Wild West --- ALL Freedom. Heck, even the dogmatism of the GOP is queerly freedom-based. The USA is the great Freedom Experiment and that goes for everything, Religion absolutely included. God's Design, unexpectedly, seems to have the United States in mind --- every individual free to make either Love decisions or ego-centered ones, without authority telling them not to [unless they encroach upon other folks' decisions.] The whole country is the Spiritual Wild, Wild West.

Analysts and Prophets of America have seen this a long, long time ago. Like it or not, our emphasis on the individual's "right" [I prefer "responsibility within the Creator's Design"] is a PERSONAL matter fully in concert with God's Creative Plan. We will, accumulatively, find loving ways to bring coherence to our society and the world, or we will drive all this into a horror show of ego-produced chaos. But we will freely do it. God surprisingly approves the method, though I have my doubts about the results. Still, I'll take Freedom every time. Anything less has no purpose.
 

greyhammer90

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Thought some of you might enjoy this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ggVbCVtPsZY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It certainly made me laugh.

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NDgradstudent

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The appalling episode in SC has opened up a discussion of the legitimacy of capital punishment. I expressed my view that the death penalty is the proper punishment for murder, although of course I believe that certain conditions have to be met beyond that (for example, I would want DNA evidence or a confession before anyone is executed, which excludes most cases).

On the other thread, Whiskeyjack objected:
Whiskeyjack said:
It's just that NDgradstudent tends to argue quite forcefully from Catholic doctrine on other topics, so it struck me as dissonant that he so casually endorses the death penalty as well.

My support for capital punishment is not "casual." As I said in the other thread, it is considered. I am suspicious of a modified Church teaching (not a doctrinal change, I realize, but an undeniable change in emphasis) that suddenly reversed centuries of older teaching, as happened regarding capital punishment. Nor would I attribute contemporary secular/liberal opposition to capital punishment to a greater belief in the value of human life, as Pope John Paul II did. Like Cardinal Dulles, I believe that contemporary opposition to capital punishment has more to do with the belief that criminals are not really responsible for their actions, and disbelief in the afterlife, than in greater respect for human life. I realize that Whiskeyjack (being something like a MacIntyrean/Deneenian, as far as I can tell) might agree with this, too. It is not a reason to embrace capital punishment, but it should give us pause in rejecting it and/or celebrating modern abolition of it.

I would never say that opposition to capital punishment in particular cases -even in most or all such cases- is not a "Catholic sentiment." A good Catholic certainly does not have to endorse capital punishment, but to say that support for it in general is not a Catholic sentiment makes me roll my eyes. Not only is this current teaching very novel (as the Catechism itself says) but even under a strict interpretation of the current teaching in the Catechism, it's a matter of prudence as to whether or not this episode falls into the vast majority of homicide cases.

As a side-note, Prof. MacIntyre told several of us a couple months ago that he strongly supports capital punishment in principle, and believes that it is very important that it be recognized as legitimate, but that in his view the U.S. criminal justice system is so corrupt that it could not be used justly in our country today. I believe this view is compatible with my claim that the proper punishment for murder is death (although I disagree with him that it cannot be used justly in our country today).
 

Whiskeyjack

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I realize that Whiskeyjack (being something like a MacIntyrean/Deneenian, as far as I can tell) might agree with this, too.

That's accurate. By the way, I'm incredibly envious you get to learn from him. I never had an opportunity to take a class taught by McIntyre or Deneen.

It is not a reason to embrace capital punishment, but it should give us pause in rejecting it and/or celebrating modern abolition of it.

With the significant number of death sentences overturned in recent years due to advances in DNA analysis, the inordinate amount of time and money it takes to execute someone under the American system, and the psychological torture involved with sitting on death row as the appeals process drags on ad infinitum, I can't see how any orthodox Catholic could enthusiastically "embrace" modern capital punishment. Coherent moral stances range from the belief that capital punishment could be justified within the context of a better system, to the belief that once a criminal is in custody and no longer presents an imminent threat to anyone, killing him is no longer justified. I don't think "the proper punishment for murder... is death" fits anywhere on that spectrum though.

I would never say that opposition to capital punishment in particular cases -even in most or all such cases- is not a "Catholic sentiment." A good Catholic certainly does not have to endorse capital punishment, but to say that support for it in general is not a Catholic sentiment makes me roll my eyes. Not only is this current teaching very novel (as the Catechism itself says) but even under a strict interpretation of the current teaching in the Catechism, it's a matter of prudence as to whether or not this episode falls into the vast majority of homicide cases.

You could say the same thing about torture and war. Life is complicated, so there aren't many practices that can be condemned as categorically immoral regardless of context. But assuming you're starting with the Catholic belief that human life is sacred, and that it shouldn't be destroyed absent the most extreme circumstances, then it's impossible to justify such practices as they currently exist in America.

As a side-note, Prof. MacIntyre told several of us a couple months ago that he strongly supports capital punishment in principle, and believes that it is very important that it be recognized as legitimate, but that in his view the U.S. criminal justice system is so corrupt that it could not be used justly in our country today. I believe this view is compatible with my claim that the proper punishment for murder is death (although I disagree with him that it cannot be used justly in our country today).

I could endorse McIntyre's view, but I'm still not clear on how you square the current state of capital punishment in most American states with your understanding of the Catechism.
 

Redbar

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I believe that force is the proper response to violence, (although there may be additional or tangential objectives (i.e. political), to not respond with force. However, the further you get away from that violence, the more difficult it is to justify force. With that being said I have serious reservations with society's "right" to apply the death penalty as it is today. Although, as a believer, I think there are examples where the reality of the death penalty may have saved someone's eternal life. I remember watching, "Dead Man Walking", and thinking that some people are so hardened and callous that they will never acknowledge their culpability, and in so doing, give themselves a chance at forgiveness and eternal redemption unless they are faced with something so imminent and certain as a death sentence. However, the fact that this may be true in one or more circumstances does not in itself prove society's right.
 

NDgradstudent

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That's accurate. By the way, I'm incredibly envious you get to learn from him. I never had an opportunity to take a class taught by McIntyre or Deneen.

Without a doubt, ND a very special place to study (as a grad or undergrad student): across a large number of fields there are many excellent Catholic teachers and scholars. Prof. MacIntyre no longer teaches classes, but comes to classes and answers students' questions.

With the significant number of death sentences overturned in recent years due to advances in DNA analysis, the inordinate amount of time and money it takes to execute someone under the American system, and the psychological torture involved with sitting on death row as the appeals process drags on ad infinitum, I can't see how any orthodox Catholic could enthusiastically "embrace" modern capital punishment. Coherent moral stances range from the belief that capital punishment could be justified within the context of a better system, to the belief that once a criminal is in custody and no longer presents an imminent threat to anyone, killing him is no longer justified. I don't think "the proper punishment for murder... is death" fits anywhere on that spectrum though.

My moral stance (which I regard as coherent) is this:
(1) Unless a jurisdiction's criminal justice system is corrupt or immoral, capital punishment can be justly exercised in cases of murder in that jurisdiction.
(2) The U.S. criminal justice system is not corrupt or immoral.
(3) Therefore, capital punishment can be justly exercised in cases of murder in the U.S.

Much of this turns on what exactly the Catechism is saying, so let me quote here (from 2267):

Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." [Citation to John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae]

Do you interpret 2267 to be saying that modern, wealthy societies with large prison systems do not need to execute people to commit justice, and therefore should not do so (as suggested by the line about 'Today, in fact...')? Or is it saying that the risk of a corrupt or immoral justice system executing an innocent person is too great? Or something else?

If evidence were produced of a deterrent effect of capital punishment, would "lethal means" then be "sufficient" to commit justice? In addition, isn't it true that modern technology increases the chances of knowing someone's guilt even as it makes it easier to put someone in prison rather than execute him?

You could say the same thing about torture and war. Life is complicated, so there aren't many practices that can be condemned as categorically immoral regardless of context. But assuming you're starting with the Catholic belief that human life is sacred, and that it shouldn't be destroyed absent the most extreme circumstances, then it's impossible to justify such practices as they currently exist in America.

There are still some such practices, though, outlined in the Catechism. I am not enthusiastically embracing capital punishment: I believe, like Peter Hitchens, that it is a weapon to be used under certain circumstances in defense of civilization. I would consider a mass shooting extreme circumstances, but we are probably talking about different types of circumstances.
 

ACamp1900

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I believe that force is the proper response to violence, (although there may be additional or tangential objectives (i.e. political), to not respond with force. However, the further you get away from that violence, the more difficult it is to justify force. With that being said I have serious reservations with society's "right" to apply the death penalty as it is today. Although, as a believer, I think there are examples where the reality of the death penalty may have saved someone's eternal life. I remember watching, "Dead Man Walking", and thinking that some people are so hardened and callous that they will never acknowledge their culpability, and in so doing, give themselves a chance at forgiveness and eternal redemption unless they are faced with something so imminent and certain as a death sentence. However, the fact that this may be true in one or more circumstances does not in itself prove society's right.

fantastic point...
 

Whiskeyjack

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Do you interpret 2267 to be saying that modern, wealthy societies with large prison systems do not need to execute people to commit justice, and therefore should not do so (as suggested by the line about 'Today, in fact...')?

Is there any other way to interpret that last sentence? And is there any doubt that Western wealth and technology has made incapacitation an effective (and much less expensive) alternative to execution?

Or is it saying that the risk of a corrupt or immoral justice system executing an innocent person is too great?

That, too. As Ben Franklin said, "it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer;" that's a variation on Blackstone's formulation, which is itself an ancient Judaic principal expressed in Genesis. I'm sure most Americans would have comfortably stated that "The US criminal justice system is not corrupt or immoral" prior to 1989, but since then DNA evidence has exonerated 330 people. How many innocent people are we locking up and/or executing today? And is that unavoidable margin of error worth whatever marginal societal benefits we derive from maintaining capital punishment? I don't see how.

If evidence were produced of a deterrent effect of capital punishment, would "lethal means" then be "sufficient" to commit justice?

No, because that's a textbook case of a good end achieved through evil means. But I don't believe there's any credible research showing that capital punishment has a deterrent effect, and such ought to be a prerequisite before the idea is even entertained.

In addition, isn't it true that modern technology increases the chances of knowing someone's guilt even as it makes it easier to put someone in prison rather than execute him?

Not really, because our system is still thoroughly reliant on fallible people. Judges, prosecutors, public defenders and jurors all have their own (often conflicting) incentives and biases.

There are still some such practices, though, outlined in the Catechism. I am not enthusiastically embracing capital punishment: I believe, like Peter Hitchens, that it is a weapon to be used under certain circumstances in defense of civilization. I would consider a mass shooting extreme circumstances, but we are probably talking about different types of circumstances.

I think capital punishment can be justified under extreme circumstances, but only when it can be administered quickly and humanely. Needless to say, that's not the case in our country.

And what's the benefit to civilization in executing people like Dylan Roof? He's now in custody, so his ability to harm anyone other than himself is virtually nil. Despite massive incentives to do so, no one has been able to produce credible research showing that capital punishment deters such people (indeed, mass shootings have tripled since 2000, and "experts" can't seem to explain why). So what's the case for it?
 
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Old Man Mike

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....... slippery, slippery stuff.

To defend some of the statements made in this discussion one would need to think that he was rather completely certain on the circumstances going on in another person's mind/soul, and therefore "comfortable" in acting accordingly --- if one would NOT be "comfortable" in acting to terminate that body/soul connection, then one probably should not do it. Capital punishment should not be a decision which is based on some sort of statistical likelihood feeling, and frankly some of the statements above seem to reduce to that when speaking about what a guilty party is or is not capable of in the future. Even "extremely likely" is still a statistical guess by us.

The State, it seems to me, dishes out Capital Punishment on just these statistical likelihood feelings, and does so "for the Common Good." The State, therefore, has almost unconsciously decided to utilize Capital Punishment as a pragmatic tool to allow the statistical welfare of the rest of the people. That's a Possible moral stance, but not the one honored by The Church.

BUT.... we must acknowledge also that the Church [though not as far as I can tell, Jesus] "honors" killing under some circumstances. Those circumstances almost always also involve a statistical likelihood guess on our part --- is that guy breaking in with a knife REALLY going to stab my wife? Well, he's going down as I can't take that chance. .... or, are those guys over there in Xland going to come over here and kill us, as they say they are? Well, eat this nuke, you bastards. ... and was it THOSE exact guys we just nuked who were the threat or a bunch of guys who sounded like them but weren't as available to the gunsights? All that stuff is "practical" in some sense of the world, and almost all of it is uncertain to some degree.

The Catechism, of course, displays its usual black-and-white vision of the world by beginning with "assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined .... " ..... fully determined, that effectively removes the catechetical statement from 99.99999999% of the real world. And, we play Hob [double entendre on purpose] trying to even get that residue correct.

I believe that we should take a full dose of "Honesty Wine" and admit that because we are not Jesus we are going to be guessing in all these matters, and because we are human we are going to kill some people out of fear for our own and our loved ones' safety, and we are going to do it using whatever our "statistical likelihood" criteria are [which will not be coldly analytical nor "scientific", but rather the product of a complex stew of emotions and assumptions.] To try to lay out Moral Theology arguments for killing is an OK thing to do, as any such reasoned discussion serves to moderate our knee-jerk emotions. But thinking that one can logically/scientifically create strong but simple guidelines to apply to things which are IN EVERY CASE unique, this is not realistic. .... so, this old Catholic boy finds himself in a dilemma, as usual. He knows that he shouldn't participate in killing someone, but he knows that being human he'd make the statistical guess [in high heat circumstances] and in fact kill. And being an old fart, he has learned that he cannot really defend himself on that act, but throw himself on God's Mercy.

And that brings up one last fact, probably most important of all: if we insist upon basing a discussion of whether it's moral or "right" to kill on Catholic/Spiritual grounds, we should at least allow God thoroughly into the discussion. If we do that, thoughts occur that God probably knows more about the exact situation than we do, has the firmer relationship, and will handle the to-be-killed person's relationship to Him justly. Now this is no free excuse for us to get more liberal about dishing out Capital Punishment, as that injures OUR relationship to God, but it does say one important thing: our mistakes in killing probably do not terminate that soul's opportunity for salvation, as God certainly sees all of the picture and will Act in some way far beyond our ken.
 

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Random thought. I am certainly no expert on Papal History, in fact what I know is embarrassingly limited, but I know I love this Pope.
 
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Cackalacky

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In light of all the recent happenings I was wondering how this passage is reconciled in Catholic doctrine. This seems to me to mean that opposing the government/established authority is being against God and the position seems to contradict many of the positions held by the religious freedom movement. Not being a scholar I am interested in context and other relevant discussion. Is this applicable to the many extant governments (secular, dictatorial, communist, socialist democratic or theocracies of other faiths)?

Romans 13

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

"Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended."


The following is from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops
* [13:1–7] Paul must come to grips with the problem raised by a message that declares people free from the law. How are they to relate to Roman authority? The problem was exacerbated by the fact that imperial protocol was interwoven with devotion to various deities. Paul builds on the traditional instruction exhibited in Wis 6:1–3, according to which kings and magistrates rule by consent of God. From this perspective, then, believers who render obedience to the governing authorities are obeying the one who is highest in command. At the same time, it is recognized that Caesar has the responsibility to make just ordinances and to commend uprightness; cf. Wis 6:4–21. That Caesar is not entitled to obedience when such obedience would nullify God’s prior claim to the believers’ moral decision becomes clear in the light of the following verses.

* [13:8–10] When love directs the Christian’s moral decisions, the interest of law in basic concerns, such as familial relationships, sanctity of life, and security of property, is safeguarded (Rom 13:9). Indeed, says Paul, the same applies to any other commandment (Rom 13:9), whether one in the Mosaic code or one drawn up by local magistrates under imperial authority. Love anticipates the purpose of public legislation, namely, to secure the best interests of the citizenry. Since Caesar’s obligation is to punish the wrongdoer (Rom 13:4), the Christian who acts in love is free from all legitimate indictment.

* [13:11–14] These verses provide the motivation for the love that is encouraged in Rom 13:8–10.

* [13:13] Let us conduct ourselves properly as in the day: the behavior described in Rom 1:29–30 is now to be reversed. Secular moralists were fond of making references to people who could not wait for nightfall to do their carousing. Paul says that Christians claim to be people of the new day that will dawn with the return of Christ. Instead of planning for nighttime behavior they should be concentrating on conduct that is consonant with avowed interest in the Lord’s return.
 
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Irish YJ

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I think God said the hell with those words when some wise human separated church and state.

In all seriousness, this is a great example of why I see the Bible as a guide, not an absolute truth. The MEN that chose the stories to include in the Bible were not perfect, nor divine. They were also inspired by things other than God in some cases,,,,, IMHO.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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The most basic (I will not say fundamental) question when having a discussion of the Bible, (from Genesis to John) is :

Is the entirety of the work the inspired word of God?

Because, if there is any doubt about a single verse, then we can pretty much say the original text may have been edited for effect or added to, in some way.

Also, if things today we know to be wrong are addressed in a positive light, we can add further doubt to the veracity of the 100 percent certified label :

For example, look no further than slavery!

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Please note that the terminology "slave" has been replaced by the much softer noun "servant" in the two New Testament quotes. Most scholars believe this is proof of the revisionism of those that copied the Biblical works.

There is a professor one Carolina over at Chapel Hill, named Bart Erdman, who has a series of lectures posted. The Bible was put together like a mosaic from thousands of scraps, none of which comes from within centuries of the first time the words were set down in writing! Think of it!

The third problem with affording any one quotation too much weigh, or too liberal of an interpretation can be referenced by a hot topic today :

Homosexuality?

1 Samuel 18:1:
And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

2 Samuel 1:26, where David says:
I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. (KJV)

In fact, that you quoted in Romans, dovetails nicely with the quotes I have included from Ephesians, Timothy, and Luke.
 
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Cackalacky

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I certainly see your viewpoint Bogs and I don't think there are many who would argue with the assembled nature of the Bible or the sliding scale that individuals put on the importance of certain scriptures. But there are a great many people on both sides citing "the Bible" (correctly or incorrectly or out of context ) with regards to the current SCOTUS rulings.

The Catholic stance seems to me to be much more structurally sound and reasoned compared to other denominations, so I am curious how Catholic Doctrine views these particular scriptures in light of the current state of our "state".
 

Old Man Mike

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Those words, if they are even from Paul and accurately translated, are ridiculously easy to deal with: they are crap which didn't even apply simplistically in Paul's time. Do we really believe that Paul believed that the Roman emperors were established by God's design? Caligula? Nero? ... or any other "authority" which existed by brute power rather than earned charity? Jesus said: give to Caesar the THINGS that are Caesar's, not blind acquiescence to immoral demands.

As Catholicism matured beyond the earliest days of narrow traditionalism and perspective, the Church thinkers began to establish the theology that we as Catholics only take The Bible as a non-literal guide and ONE of our foundational pillars of belief --- a position that separates Catholicism from the Protestant Right Wing, whose contrary position forces that region of "conservative Christianity" into the most embarrassing mental dances, denials, and pick-and-choose Scripture absolutism in order to maintain their fictions.

Catholicism, even mainstream Catholicism, is not supposed to be taking The Bible that way. Catholicism takes the entire Bible as "occasions" for meditation, but very few aspects of The Bible make their way uninterpreted into the Creed. For me, I go one further {heretical?} step: I assume that the early centuries were so impaired by the weight of tradition that leaving out certain things {"traditional books"} was unthinkable --- so the short-sighted Church "fathers" voted them in. {Look up and read about the debates and, doubtlessly, hollering matches which went on as to whether to include things or not. There wasn't "infallible" clarity on this ever.} Lots of that stuff shouldn't be graced with a presence in the Book at all. {Ex. all the "kill the guys who are in our way in Canaan" stuff as a starter... and there's LOTS more.}

The absolutism-of-feeling for embracing a LITERAL Bible is an emotional state based upon fear --- not upon faith. This fear is of a person who is scared for their eternal post-death status, such that they want a roadmap as to exactly how to "earn" their ticket through the pearly gates. And they want it to be simple. They don't want to have to meditate about "situations". Just give me a few laws to obey. This is Old Testament fear gone Walmart One-Stop-Shopping. The Old Testament ultimately wrote so many stupid "laws" no one could operate within them and certainly not with a straight face. Walmart Christianity says "Just drop in and pay for what you want, and don't think too much about it."

Catholicism, as Francis consistently shows, is a much harder and much more spiritually-driven and thoughtful path, based on the New Testament Gospel-of-Love. It's not about Law, but about responding to the needy with kindness to soften the unfairness of life. It requires us to maintain awareness of our surroundings, and right-thinking about moment-to-moment actions, not obeying non-human-scale simplistic "do-nots", but sacrificing our personal agendas for real world individual-oriented "do's".
 
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Cackalacky

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Thanks for the response OMM. I am well aware of the multiple iterations, translations, Councils etc. that gave rise to the current versions of the Bible. Its one of the many reasons I find it hard to put any literal truth in it at all.

I would like to expand on a point you raised. You mention the Bible as being a source for directed meditations....It would not be unreasonable to say individuals would most certainly arrive at different conclusions while "meditating" on similar scriptures. Obviously since these types of scriptures are throughout the Bible, its also not unreasonable to assume said people would encounter conflicts/contradictions and therefore place variable weights or importance to such meditations and act accordingly on them (assuming such realizations necessitate action or adherence).

Is there a state of "love" or "grace" that equates to embracing your fellow human and his "perceived faults" while not denying him access to aspects in society that may or may not align with the theistically-arrived conclusions derived from such meditative practices?

Is there a government (non theistic) that would be able to accommodate such "immoral" persons.

I understand these may appear to be pedestrian/sophomoric questions. My intent is purely academic.
 

NDohio

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Thanks for the response OMM. I am well aware of the multiple iterations, translations, Councils etc. that gave rise to the current versions of the Bible. Its one of the many reasons I find it hard to put any literal truth in it at all.

I would like to expand on a point you raised. You mention the Bible as being a source for directed meditations....It would not be unreasonable to say individuals would most certainly arrive at different conclusions while "meditating" on similar scriptures. Obviously since these types of scriptures are throughout the Bible, its also not unreasonable to assume said people would encounter conflicts/contradictions and therefore place variable weights or importance to such meditations and act accordingly on them (assuming such realizations necessitate action or adherence).

Is there a state of "love" or "grace" that equates to embracing your fellow human and his "perceived faults" while not denying him access to aspects in society that may or may not align with the theistically-arrived conclusions derived from such meditative practices?

Is there a government (non theistic) that would be able to accommodate such "immoral" persons.

I understand these may appear to be pedestrian/sophomoric questions. My intent is purely academic.

I am slammed busy the next couple of days, but will try and answer some of your questions from a non-Catholic view if you are interested. I just don't have a lot of time right at the moment.

The short answer to the bold is sort of. We look at your question a little differently than how you have it stated here. We are all born into sin and we all have perceived faults that we have to deny. The difficulty with the SCOTUS decision is that an action that we see as sin has been condoned. We don't want to condone, nor stone, people that commit sin(we all do) - it is an act of love and grace that we want people to feel. The caveat to that is there needs to be repentance or denial of those urges.

One thing that has bugged me about the Christian reaction to the SCOTUS decision is that many in the Christian community have "ranked" this to be the sin of all sins. It shouldn't be seen that way.

I have more to say, I just gotta go...
 

Old Man Mike

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I tend to ignore the "practical" aspect of whether "government" can be made to act one way or another. My years have taught me that I have little impact on that, nor do I think God/Jesus wants me to spend too much time tilting that windmill. What God wants me to do is get in touch with the Gospel of Love [Beatitudes and all that] AS A FOUNDATION. If I do that, then the fact that I or others meditate on scripture and come to differing opinions on something makes no difference. WHY? Because if I'm driven by the Gospel of Love, the fact that someone else feels differently than I do about something cannot stop me from loving him/her and caring about them. "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner", is the crude phrase --- actually "hate" tends to disappear entirely. "Agree to disagree, and still love" is closer to the mark.

Paradoxically, "government" is, or should be, a sideshow to the real living of one's life as a beatitudes-driven Christ-follower. Government can be spiritually perfect or horrifyingly malfunctioning, and it remains "merely" a framing background for the real purpose of life, Love Thy Neighbor, either way. God is in judgement on our actions whatever the "environment" is which makes life harder or easier --- and He is a fair and loving God taking that environment into account. If I insist on everything feeling good to me about my environment [government, economy, health, et al], that shows that I am human but nothing else. Sure it would be NICE if everything was going well and fairly, but the Universe and its circumstances grind on, and we will be judged not on our surroundings but how we acted within them regardless of how rough they might have been.
 
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Buster Bluth

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There is a professor one Carolina over at Chapel Hill, named Bart Erdman, who has a series of lectures posted. The Bible was put together like a mosaic from thousands of scraps, none of which comes from within centuries of the first time the words were set down in writing! Think of it!

Close. That's Bart Ehrman. He's the man though, I have three of his books
 
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