The Optimal Notre Dame Scheduling Model

wizards8507

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Does anybody think Miami and Orlando lose some of their appeal because we'll probably end up in one or both for bowl games if we finish consistently in the top 15? I'm not sure how important visiting "recruiting hotbeds" is versus visiting places that recruits would want to play. For example, we're not playing in Fenway Park to land a bunch of New England recruits. We're playing in Fenway Park because recruits from EVERYWHERE will look at that and say "that's pretty friggin sweet." I wonder if that opens up places like Lambeau or Centurylink.
 

gkIrish

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Game 1: Rice &Tulane Alternate by year, Home and Home (1 for 2), only play at NFL stadiums on the road. Puts you in Houston and New Orleans for recruiting. Game 1 slot is always a home game so on years where ND travels to Nola or Houston, the Game 2 teams open in South Bend and the Rice / Tulane game is played Week 2

Game 2: Vandy & SMU (or TCU once Patterson leaves) Same theory as Game 1. Puts you in Tennessee and DFW for recruiting. Play at pro stadiums as much as possible.

Game 5: USC or Stanford on the road. ALWAYS make the Cali guys play in the weather at the end of the year.

1. You don't want to go overboard on playing in NFL stadiums. Seems like you want every other game on our schedule to be in an NFL stadium. 2 max per season in NFL stadiums.

2. I like your Rice/Tulane home and home idea. Playing Vandy also lets us say we "beat an SEC team" so that's potentially a good idea too.

3. You can't just force USC and Stanford to play whenever you want them to. They simply will give us the middle finger if we try and tell them they have to play in South Bend in November.
 

BobbyMac

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Does anybody think Miami and Orlando lose some of their appeal because we'll probably end up in one or both for bowl games if we finish consistently in the top 15? I'm not sure how important visiting "recruiting hotbeds" is versus visiting places that recruits would want to play. For example, we're not playing in Fenway Park to land a bunch of New England recruits. We're playing in Fenway Park because recruits from EVERYWHERE will look at that and say "that's pretty friggin sweet." I wonder if that opens up places like Lambeau or Centurylink.

Fenway is a rare exception, it's like playing NW at Wrigley. It's all about getting in front of those players and letting them know that they will get the chance to play in front of their hometown area in the future.

That's why I'd love a series with Tulane. 'Guaranteed' win over an academic school, in front of high quality recruit population, in a fun town... that's very Catholic. THAT'S how you go after an easy win, not bringing in UT-Chattanooga.

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IrishLion

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I like the "Game 12 alternate" idea, except you could do it during conference championship week if you can find a Big 12 or Independent willing to play in "week 15."

That way, you can leave Stanford/USC in their normal week 14 slot, but every few years you can add a game to happen the week after that. This might mean starting the season a week later, or having an extra bye during those seasons though.
 

BobbyMac

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1. You don't want to go overboard on playing in NFL stadiums. Seems like you want every other game on our schedule to be in an NFL stadium. 2 max per season in NFL stadiums.

2. I like your Rice/Tulane home and home idea. Playing Vandy also lets us say we "beat an SEC team" so that's potentially a good idea too.

3. You can't just force USC and Stanford to play whenever you want them to. They simply will give us the middle finger if we try and tell them they have to play in South Bend in November.

1. You are only playing 2 for sure, Game 2 and the Shamrock Series and 3 when you play Navy - which is always at a pro stadium anyways. Rice is the only team that has a stadium big enough to handle ND crowds all the rest are too small. Even TCU's new stadium is only 50,000.

2. The home and home with Rice and Tulane are 2 for 1's or 3 for 2's. Basketball does that a lot so a MAC school can schedule a B1G school. We play at your place 2 or 3 times to get you to come to our place once.. This keeps Swarbrick's 6-5-1 intact if you want 2 home games at the start of the season or it puts you in the south for recruiting. Your choice.

3. I'll respond to the SC/Stanford point with: Why is it that way? They don't want to play in the cold or ND just wanted to be in Cali when it's warm for a bowl feel? SC and Stanford are full of future pro's who play in the cold every year. They should look forward to it! lol

I hear ya, but no one's ever put them to the test on this. I was just was typing out loud. SC is SC, that and Navy go hand in hand in defining what made ND, ND. I would never suggest that either of those relationships be put in jeopardy. But I'd push a little to see what I could get away with. ;-)

In regards to Stanford: I don't really care. They will return to the PAC-12's Northwestern someday. They are the flavor of the era because it gets the Irish out to Cali every year. I would play a Shamrock Series style game in Anaheim on years when SC is in South Bend EVERY TIME over going to the bay. There are much better teams and recruits in LA/OC/IE than in the Bay. As far as history, Stanford's not in the top 10 for games played against. They are easily the most overrated rivalry ND has. ND has played IU more often. They serve a current purpose so that's their saving grace as far as I'm concerned.

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irishog77

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Can't teams play a 13th regular season game only like once every 4 years, or have to apply/clear it with the ncaa? This was the case, at least a year ago.

I love the idea of a 13th game against somebody. But I don't think the ncaa even allows it.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Can't teams play a 13th regular season game only like once every 4 years, or have to apply/clear it with the ncaa? This was the case, at least a year ago.

I love the idea of a 13th game against somebody. But I don't think the ncaa even allows it.
If they play at Hawaii.
 

irishog77

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If they play at Hawaii.

Right. But I don't think the ncaa allows a team to schedule Hawaii every year and play 13 games. They make an exception for a team to do it every several years. But they don't let Hawaii's conference opponents play 13 games each year they have to play in Honolulu.
 

wizards8507

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Power 5 don't have to listen to the NCAA anymore.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
 

GowerND11

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Game 3: Marquee Home and Home Series game. Georgia, A&M, MSU, Michigan in the future. Would like to see a series with Mizzou added with games played at pro stadiums in St, Louis and Chicago, same thing for a series with Penn St to be played in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or both.
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No way Penn State would give up a home game against Notre Dame to an NFL stadium. Beaver Stadium can hold like 50,000 more people than those NFL stadiums, too much revenue lost.
 

BobbyMac

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[/B]

No way Penn State would give up a home game against Notre Dame to an NFL stadium. Beaver Stadium can hold like 50,000 more people than those NFL stadiums, too much revenue lost.

Maybe. If ND and PSU played a H & H where the games were held in Pittsburgh and Cleveland, yes that's 35,000 less seats in Heinz Field but ticket prices are higher, I would imagine you have less discounted student / faculty tickets and most importantly, you have 50,000 people drinking beer in a stadium that is set up for concessions. I bet the money difference is smaller than you think and it puts you in two markets that are important for football recruiting.

It would be fun to do an official CBA to see how those off site games pan out financially.

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wizards8507

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Maybe. If ND and PSU played a H & H where the games were held in Pittsburgh and Cleveland, yes that's 35,000 less seats in Heinz Field but ticket prices are higher, I would imagine you have less discounted student / faculty tickets and most importantly, you have 50,000 people drinking beer in a stadium that is set up for concessions. I bet the money difference is smaller than you think and it puts you in two markets that are important for football recruiting.
I might be wrong about how these agreements work, but I doubt very much that the schools see a single penny of that money.
 

BobbyMac

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I might be wrong about how these agreements work, but I doubt very much that the schools see a single penny of that money.

I know they do in basketball. I'm sure they get either a percentage cut or a predetermined guarantee of concessions along with gate. The management of those stadiums will bend over backwards to make events like that happen if the are contractually able to meaning the pro teams lease doesn't negate such games.

Heinz Field might be tough because of the Steelers and Pitt both playing there. Lincoln Financial too as Temple has all of their home games there I think.

Cleveland would be a great place to negotiate a series like that with as they have a 73,000 seat stadium sitting empty on half of the weekends every season.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Heinz Field might be tough because of the Steelers and Pitt both playing there. Lincoln Financial too as Temple has all of their home games there I think.

Notre Dame plays away games in Heinz field against a rival. Why would they put a Shamrock Series there?
 
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Cackalacky

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New York, Atlanta, San Antonio, Dallas, New Orleans, Chicago/Indianapolis. Is there anywhere else our ACC games and California games don't get us? The Shamrock Series should be at these places IMO. I would like a game at Seattle but not sure of the benefit
 

BobbyMac

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Notre Dame plays away games in Heinz field against a rival. Why would they put a Shamrock Series there?

I didn't say that.

I had it in my "marquee match-up series' like Ohio State and Georgia, I just suggested it might be played in one of 3 pro stadiums for a change of pace and exposure to recruiting markets. I'm not hung up on Pittsburgh and even mentioned playing there or Lincoln Financial could be difficult because of Pitt and Temple. But you have to admit, playing in Cleveland would be interesting.

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BobbyMac

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New York, Atlanta, San Antonio, Dallas, New Orleans, Chicago/Indianapolis. Is there anywhere else our ACC games and California games don't get us? The Shamrock Series should be at these places IMO. I would like a game at Seattle but not sure of the benefit

Atlanta's covered but a game @ GT might only happen every 6 years. A Shamrock game there against Vandy, Kentucky or even Georgia State would be good to keep the Irish visible in ATL.

I included Houston in the southern destinations and in years when the ACC doesn't send them to Florida a Shamrock in Tampa or Orlando would make sense. Can't get to Florida, Atlanta, Texas or LA/OC/IE enough.

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Cackalacky

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Atlanta's covered but a game @ GT might only happen every 6 years. A Shamrock game there against Vandy, Kentucky or even Georgia State would be good to keep the Irish visible in ATL.

I included Houston in the southern destinations and in years when the ACC doesn't send them to Florida a Shamrock in Tampa or Orlando would make sense. Can't get to Florida, Atlanta, Texas or LA/OC/IE enough.

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Agree. I included Atalanta for the very reason you stated. Playing GT in Atlanta will be periodic but we could always cycle in a game at the Georgia Dome in between. I am not sure though about Florida destinations. We will play Miami and FSU With a a bowl game option most likely in Florida as well. I don't see the benefit or significance of playing in Orlando or Tampabay or even Jacksonville.
 

BobbyMac

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Agree. I included Atalanta for the very reason you stated. Playing GT in Atlanta will be periodic but we could always cycle in a game at the Georgia Dome in between. I am not sure though about Florida destinations. We will play Miami and FSU With a a bowl game option most likely in Florida as well. I don't see the benefit or significance of playing in Orlando or Tampabay or even Jacksonville.

Agreed. Of those listed, I'd agree that Florida is the least likely that I'd press for as ND can end up there yearly with the bowl option.

The one thing I've learned is that ND is very popular in Orange Co, CA. There is too much talent here for USC and UCLA to handle. A game at the Big A in Anaheim would go along way with the incredible talent that is in the area... much of which plays in the Trinity and Mission Catholic conferences. They already have the stadium converted to football once baseball season ends for all of the high school playoffs. I know most will say we are already here to play SC every 2 years but playing away from the Coliseum without SC shows that ND is an equal alternative to the locals. Once a pro stadium (or 2) is built it will be a no brainer as the Big A isn't ideal.


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drayer54

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ND schedules better than anyone else in the country. Play good schools in all the top recruiting markets. Neutral site games, NFL stadiums, and good competition. I love putting Ohio State, Texas, Texas A&M, Georgia, and others on the schedule. In the playoff era, let ND beat top notch teams. Michigan or Michigan State should be on there and it never hurts to play the FSU/Va Tech types.

I'd like to see them in Texas, CA, Fl, and the Ohio/Ny area every year.
 

BGIF

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ND schedules better than anyone else in the country. Play good schools in all the top recruiting markets. Neutral site games, NFL stadiums, and good competition. I love putting Ohio State, Texas, Texas A&M, Georgia, and others on the schedule. In the playoff era, let ND beat top notch teams. Michigan or Michigan State should be on there and it never hurts to play the FSU/Va Tech types.

I'd like to see them in Texas, CA, Fl, and the Ohio/Ny area every year.


ND schedules tougher opposition than most anybody in the country.

They do not schedule better.

ND usually does not make judicious use of bye weeks. Nor balancing the tough opponents with the weaker. Take a look at Alabama under Bryant, he did run 3 game gauntlets like ND does. He rarely had 2 tough games back to back He was a master at scheduling to rest his troops between major clashes. He maximized his bye weeks. And he did that back in the days before scholarship limits went into effect.

ND didn't play oppressive schedules during the glory days of Rockne, Layden, and Parsghian. Before Holtz AND NBC oppressive scheduling was restricted to the Leahy era when ND had a preponderance of talent AND coaching.
 

drayer54

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ND schedules tougher opposition than most anybody in the country.

They do not schedule better.

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I was arguing that they schedule better than anyone else for recruiting and playoff positioning. They do schedule tougher than anyone else, especially once the SEC starts popping in once or twice a year. I love the shamrock series and neutral site concept that they are using.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I'm sure this is being discussed, but I can't seem to find where:

Why the hell are so many coaches spending THEIR media day talking about ND joining a conference?! Bryan Driskel and Pete Sampson have been having a hell of a time with this on twitter the last week or two. There are literally zero supporting facts behind what these other coaches are saying about ND. But fuck it, I think ND needs to join the ACC, play teams like Alcorn State, Wofford, and Bethune-Cookman too. Maybe then people will take the Irish seriously.
 

ACamp1900

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I think ND needs to join the ACC, play teams like Alcorn State, Wofford, and Bethune-Cookman too. Maybe then people will take the Irish seriously.

The complaining that is coming from all these other coaches right now is bs... but the quoted is actually exactly where I stand on this...
 

KPENN

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-l...layoff-175832851.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

Notre Dame should have a strong team this year, with the NFL salivating over linebacker Jaylon Smith, offensive tackle Ronnie Stanley and wideout William Fuller, among others. Brian Kelly has to break in a new quarterback in Malik Zaire, but the Fightin' Irish are a legit playoff contender.

Of course, in the playoff era every team – from Alabama to Army – is, or should be, a legit playoff contender. What they do on the field of play is the only thing that matters.



Then again, both Missouri coach Gary Pinkel and Clemson's Dabo Swinney recently discounted ND not on the potential strength of the team, but because the school refuses to join a conference full-time and instead remains a throwback independent. Swinney seemed most concerned that this limited their season to 12, rather than 13 games.
"They don't have independents in NFL," Pinkel noted.

"Absolutely Notre Dame needs to be in conference or play 13 games to be in," Swinney echoed.

These are intellectually lazy opinions that can't stand up to any reasonable debate considering the state of college football scheduling.

Notre Dame will again play an ambitious schedule – Texas, Georgia Tech, USC, Stanford and so on. Oh, and at Clemson on Oct. 3, which means Swinney's comments will be resurrected then. Only six games are in South Bend. Nine opponents are from Power Five Conferences and one of the others, Navy, is no one's slouch.

Because of college football's unique nature – 128 teams chasing four playoff spots – and the disparate schedules it produces, this is a sport where quality should always be more important than quantity. It should be simple.

"Conferences" are just groupings of teams in an effort to maximize television revenue and, to a lesser extent, provide scheduling security. If Notre Dame wins all 12 of its games, or even goes 11-1 under certain scenarios, it will deserve to be considered for a spot in the playoff. If the Irish don't, they won't.

A perfect season won't merit automatic inclusion, but it also doesn't merit automatic exclusion. Last year Florida State was the 13-0 defending national champion and it was only seeded third.

That was a good thing; a sign the 13-member playoff committee is more mature than the old BCS, where record was all that mattered and, via the coaches' poll, the opinions of guys such as Pinkel and Swinney actually counted.

The inaugural college football playoff was a predictable runaway success and the fact the committee's choice for the contentious fourth spot, Ohio State, went on to win the title was a bonus for the process. Under the BCS it almost certainly would've been Alabama vs. Florida State, each of whom lost in the semifinals. It showed that additional access to prove it on the field wasn't just about the potential Boise States of the world, but the Big Ten, too.

That programs have gotten the strength-of-schedule message and are booking better non-conference dates for future seasons is a massive ancillary benefit.

Still, it was just one year and the process wasn't without debate. Baylor coach Art Briles complained about brand bias and a lack of Southern representation, which may or may not be true. The difference between Ohio State, Baylor and TCU was razor thin, though, and arguing one over the other was an exercise in going in circles. Any of the three were the correct choice. The committee made a tough call and the Buckeyes made the most of it.

More years need to go by before any conclusions can be made.

Logical flags were also raised when the committee suggested that it granted Ohio State extra credit when it blew out Wisconsin in the Big Ten title game with a third-string quarterback.

That's nice, but injuries shouldn't be a factor in any decision making because A) they are part of the game and B) they don't provide the same opportunity for teams that don't suffer injuries. Your team is on the field. That's it.

Cardale Jones was a revelation for the Buckeyes, but is it fair for TCU and Baylor to not get a chance to earn "third-string" quarterback credit just because their first stringers remained upright? Who can say how good their guys would've played? Besides, Jones wasn't a downgrade for Ohio State. His ability to stretch the field and give Ezekiel Elliott room to run made them, if not better, then at least differently as good.

And there remains some troubling comments from various committee members, the body of which still lacks intellectual diversity that maybe a younger, more data-driven member could provide. Consider new member Bobby Johnson, a colorful former Vanderbilt coach, had this to say to ESPN when asked about his new responsibilities:

"The old eye test is probably the most important. I don't want to get too involved with statistics. I like to watch games and then I'll go back and look at statistics and see what may have been the big difference in that one team winning or losing.

"It always gets down to who can execute and who can get the job done when the pressure's on. To me, that's the big thing. That's looking at the coaching staff, that's looking at the players, the kickers, everything."
Looking at the coaching staff? How about who cares who the coach is if they won enough games to deserve to be in the playoff? This is a process that demands less subjectivity, not more.

The playoff committee should have passed on Johnson when he expressed these sentiments in the job interview. There is an interview process, right?

Unfortunately they didn't. So a sport in desperate need of passionless analysis because it hasn't expanded its postseason gets someone seemingly in line with unsupportable opinions such as the "NFL doesn't have independents."
 

Irish YJ

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I would love to see the following. Probably said it before...

5x ACC games
1x Rotate USC and Stanford
1x Rotate TX and OK
1x Rotate Meatchicken and MichSt
1x Rotate services (get Navy off the every year schedule)
1x MAC rotation, any team for a tune up
1x Rotate Tenn and Vandy
1x Wildcard

13th game - IVY LEAGUE BABY
 

woolybug25

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I would love to see the following. Probably said it before...

5x ACC games
1x Rotate USC and Stanford
1x Rotate TX and OK
1x Rotate Meatchicken and MichSt
1x Rotate services (get Navy off the every year schedule)
1x MAC rotation, any team for a tune up
1x Rotate Tenn and Vandy
1x Wildcard

13th game - IVY LEAGUE BABY

Whoa whoa whoa.... rotating our biggest rival?

No way, Jose.

Also, do you know the story on why we play Navy? We should always play them, imo. Every year, in perpetuity.
 

BobbyMac

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For my own enjoyment, I don't want them to join the ACC until it gets better or they are forced to because Texas joins the B!G or the PAC and blows up the Big 12. I like playing SC, Stanford and one random big name like Texas etc...

It is true that if they were in the ACC this year with UMass, Navy and Temple they would obviously be in a better position to make the playoffs trading Texas, SC and Stanford for any ACC teams even if one of the teams was FSU and that game would be in South Bend.

Also, I'll guess there will be an 8 team playoff format before ND gets the Baylor-TCU playoff shaft. If you don't make an 8 team football playoff well then you probably didn't have a real chance to win it all anyways and your crying would be like a 21-11 B1G basketball team not making it to March Madness.


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pkt77242

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I would love to see the following. Probably said it before...

5x ACC games
1x USC
1X Stanford
1x Navy
1x Rotate a big name team TX, OK, FL, OH St., UCLA, OR, etc.
1x Rotate Meatchicken and MichSt
1x Rotate services rotate Army and Air Force
1x MAC rotation, any team for a tune up

FIFY
 
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