The Epic Failure that is the 2011 Recruiting Class

[Crazy Balki]

What else can you say? This class came in somewhere between #8 and #11 in the country. Boy did that translate...

Of the 23 members of that class (along with composite ranking):

Aaron Lynch: .9945 - Good freshman season, and then transferred.
Ishaq Williams: .9881 - Never started, barely contributed his first 3 seasons, got suspended and denied his final year of eligibility.
Stephon Tuitt: .9809 - Had 1 great year, 1 meh year, left early for the draft
Ben Koyack: .9752 - Started 1 year and was okay. Outside of that, next to nothing.
Matt Hegarty: .9708 - Good rotational player, good backup Center. Struggled mightily in his first year as a starter (2014).
Davaris Daniels: .9534 - Had 2 decent, but inconsistent years (2012 & 2013), got suspended, left school.
Eilar Hardy: .9142 - Barely contributed, had 1 good game in his career, got suspended, graduated and left.
Ben Councell: .9100 - Consistently injured, played sparingly in 2013, never overcame injury problems.
George Atkinson: .9051 - Good homerun threat, but couldn't develop runningback intangibles. Never developed past HR threat, left early for the draft.
Troy Niklas: .9011 - Okay as Eifert's backup, had a good 2013 year, left early.
Everett Golson: .8937 - Decent 2012 year, suspended next year, very inconsistent 2014 year, graduate transfer.
Anthony Rabasa: .8772 - Never contributed in a large role. Barely played in 2014, despite needs up front.
Jarrett Grace: .8715 - Solid 2013 as a starter before major leg injury, TBD with GS 2015 season.
Tony Springmann: .8640 - Solid as a backup in 2012, missed rest of his career with injury. Retired from football
Chase Hounshell: .8634 - Constant struggle with injuries, switched to TE this season. TBD.
Nick Martin: .8610 - Good 2013 season prior to season ending injury, very average year in 2014 dealing with nagging injuries, Captain in 2015.
Cam McDaniel: .8544 - Surprisingly solid 2013 campaign, followed by a incredibly disappointing 2014 season.
Brad Carrico: .8544 - Never contributed on the field, injuries ended career.
Jalen Brown: .8529 - Never contributed on the field, graduated and transferred.
Josh Atkinson: .8515 - Never contributed on the field, graduated and transferred.
Conor Hanratty: .8453 - Solid backup in 2013, injured in 2014, graduated and moved on.
Matthias Farley: .8414 - Switched from WR to S, solid 2012 as starter, struggled in 2013 with injuries, decent 2014 as starting NB, Captain in 2015.
Kyle Brindza: .8314 - Good career as P/K, shaky at the end, but ended on a high note.


2012 doesn't look much better either. We had 3 elite pass rushers in this class, and only 1 developed with us, and topped his career off with a very disappointing junior year (Tuitt). It's crazy to think that the 3 biggest contributors on this team are 2 of our lowest ranking players (Farley and Martin) and a former preferred walk-on (Joe Schmidt). Needless to say, I definitely prefer our current recruiting model.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The Epic Failure that is the 2011 Recruiting Class

It didn't pan out (for your reasons stated), but as Norman Dale said when Jimmy Chitwood wasn't on the team: "The guys behind me have put it on the line every day. That kind of commitment deserves your respect. I hope you support who are, and not who we are not."

 

[Irish YJ]

But that guy Koyak, man he had potential.

 

[Crazy Balki]

It didn't pan out (for your reasons stated), but as Norman Dale said when Jimmy Chitwood wasn't on the team: "The guys behind me have put it on the line every day. That kind of commitment deserves your respect. I hope you support who are, and not who we are not."

I don't trust anything Lex Luthor says...

 

[Irish Insanity]

So Lynch amd Tuitt, at this point, are the most successful of the bunch.

 

[Irish YJ]

So Lynch amd Tuitt, at this point, are the most successful of the bunch.

If the NFL is your measuring stick. I'd say Nick is the best out of the class from an ND perspective. Farley and Brindza were solid, and Cam over achieved.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I chalk it up to piss poor development. Im just not sold on BKs ability to develop. When you have that guy at Mich state taking 2 and 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars, that is a developer. What about Boise State? BK takes 4-5 stars and they perform like 2 and 3 stars consistently.

I was speaking to a ND grad yesterday and he went to ND back in Parseghian's day. We were talking about how everyone gets up for ND and how .500 teams play like .900 teams vs ND. My response was, everyone gets up for Bama now. Does not everyone on the West coast get up for USC big time? Doesnt everyone get up for OSU in the B10? Bama beats the scrubs teams by 40 pts. ND beats the Purdues by 3 with a minute to go. Wasnt a lot left to reply with.

I realize being a coach at ND requires a successful mix of skills. For example, you cant get drunk at an ND function, spew crap and keep your job. You have to be able to speak with the media well. And you have to win. Seems BK is really good at 1 and 2. 3 maybe not so good.

 

[Irish YJ]

Jury is still out for me, but I agree thus far. I think this is the best staff he has had, so looking forward to this year.

 

[gkIrish]

Yea this is actually terrifying. You can't miss on 90% of a class and except to compete for championships.

Other than 2012, we have yet to reach 9 regular season wins. This year is make or break for me. 10 wins or bust.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yea this is actually terrifying. You can't miss on 90% of a class and except to compete for championships.

Other than 2012, we have yet to reach 9 regular season wins. This year is make or break for me. 10 wins or bust.

10 regular season wins for me. I can stomach a loss to Clemson, and perhaps USC, but anything over 2 losses and I'll be questioning my faith.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Jury is still out for me, but I agree thus far. I think this is the best staff he has had, so looking forward to this year.

Its very telling when the players make comments about coaching staff upgrades. I know Max, Malik and few others made subtle remarks.

 

[Cackalacky]

This is brutal....

 

[gkIrish]

10 regular season wins for me. I can stomach a loss to Clemson, and perhaps USC, but anything over 2 losses and I'll be questioning my faith.

Yea I meant 10 regular season wins, too. I'm okay with 2 of 3 losses to Georgia Tech, USC and Clemson but if we lose all 3 or some other random game I will be ready to move on.

 

[BGIF]

Yea this is actually terrifying. You can't miss on 90% of a class and except to compete for championships.

Other than 2012, we have yet to reach 9 regular season wins. This year is make or break for me. 10 wins or bust.

How do you predict injuries? Statistically some are expected but this class had an inordinate amount.

Who foresaw Hegarty having heart surgery?

The inordinate number injuries have had been a major factor in the record. IF ND took Jucos which they can't academically you could replace a career ending injury with a developed 20 year old. Instead ND has to replace them with a 17 or 18 year old and wait on development. No Mountain Cody to plug in at ND.

 

[Section20Row27]

I've sat through the Faust, Davie, and Willingham years... I am an ND fan for life.

Wins, Championships are icing on the cake...Playing football the right way, excellent academics, teaching young men and women how to navigate the world with morals and ethics.... yeah, I am a fan for life.

 

[RDU Irish]

I see this glass half full (OK maybe a quarter full). Consider that someone like Lynch didn't eat up a schollie for three years before contributing for one. One year contribution only cost one scholarship. Tuitt, Atkinson, Niklas all contributed for 3 years before leaving early. We can all agree Atkinson did us a favor freeing up a spot.

Wouldn't we rather have a three year impact player than a redshirt who leaves for the draft rather than staying for a fifth year? In both cases you get an NFL quality contributor for three years on the field. I can see the argument for value from more time in the system.

Tuitt, Lynch, Golson, Niklas, Martin, Brindza, Farley, Daniels and Atkinson make up a better class than much of what we saw the 10 years prior to 2011.

Consider 2010 consisted of Louis Nix, TJ Jones, Bennett Jackson, Prince Shembo, Tommy Rees, Christian Lombard, Chris Badger, Spencer Boyd, Austin Collinsworth, Bruce Heggie, Andrew Hendrix, Matt James, Luke Massa, Kendall Moore, Tate Nichols, Derek Roback, Cameron Roberson, Kona Schwenke, Daniel Smith, Danny Spond, Justin Utupo, Alex Welch and Lo Wood.

That class whiffed bigger than 2011.

 

[greyhammer90]

Yea I meant 10 regular season wins, too. I'm okay with 2 of 3 losses to Georgia Tech, USC and Clemson but if we lose all 3 or some other random game I will be ready to move on.

Serious question... Move on to what?

 

[IrishinTN]

Isn't that why recruitng sites have crystal balls? Duh...

 

[Blaise]

To me, if a player is able to leave early for the NFL draft, that is a success... It helps with recruiting and show that guy has NFL type talent... Troy, and Stephen are two guys from this class I would consider a huge success... A lot of those players played key parts in a 2012 season where we went 12-0.. I can't say it was a bust

 

[Old Man Mike]

eye of the beholder .... statistically a staff hopes to get starting production out of about ten players per "draft." That gives you in theory 40 starting quality players [a little more given 5th years] on your roster in a given year. I count twelve players who started [counting Brindza and Schmidt] in that class. The fact that they were not all All-Americans is not a reasonable request of a staff.

A staff cannot "develop" players who decide to transfer out, get catastrophic injuries, or get into trouble. I count at least eleven such players on that list who fit one or the other categories. Lynch, Tuitt, Grace, Hegarty, Springmann, Daniels, Hounshell, Councell, are all players whose careers at ND would have been FAR more productive if these non-coaching-related anomalies had not occurred. Niklas going early to NFL is also out of coaching control, and is actually an argument FOR good development of raw talent.

Several of those players simply "didn't have it" compared to their teammates from other classes. We were desperate for DBs and took several gambles, none except [finally] Farley working out. Some of that COULD have been poor development [we had what was to me a ridiculous situation of split coaching between corners and safeties], but mostly it seemed that our other guys were just better. Looking a creating a decent player out of Farley [from scratch] and a great one in Russell [from scratch] says more about what the staff can do.

So, I see it differently.

 

[RDU Irish]

I also don't think we are giving props to the idea that signing 5 stars like Williams and Lynch may not have panned out but proved we could sign them. The street cred from those signings paid dividends down the road but I am not sure how you would ever quantify that value.

Looking at 2010/2011 names it is pretty remarkable we made the NCG in 2012.

 

[stlnd01]

I chalk it up to piss poor development.

I dunno. Some of the best college football players in this class - Schmidt, Martin, Farley, McDaniel, I know this isn't saying much - were not exactly elite recruits. They developed. Even some of those who I guess you'd call "disappointments" - Golson, Niklas - left the program a lot better than when they got here.

I think the trouble with this class, beyond a disturbing number of severe/career-ending injuries, was that we shot for stars in recruiting and didn't focus enough on fit and culture and leadership. There was a QB whose personality never fit the size of the job, a couple of elite D Linemen who were probably not quite right for Notre Dame, a pair of NFL-player-kids with problematic fathers, and a pair who were very good at football and solid citizens but bolted for their first shot at the NFL.

You can - probably should - have a couple of cultural/academic "reach"es, and nothing wrong with a few football-first types. But you've got to balance that out right with guys who are fully committed (and stars, not just walk-ons and benchwarmers). There were just too many wrong fits in this class. They seem to be doing better lately.

 

[stlnd01]

To me, if a player is able to leave early for the NFL draft, that is a success... It helps with recruiting and show that guy has NFL type talent... Troy, and Stephen are two guys from this class I would consider a huge success... A lot of those players played key parts in a 2012 season where we went 12-0.. I can't say it was a bust

And, yeah, no way we do what we did in 2012 without Tuitt, Golson, Farley, even Daniels. All of whom were redshirt freshmen/sophomores on that team.

 

[Blaise]

And, yeah, no way we do what we did in 2012 without Tuitt, Golson, Farley, even Daniels. All of whom were redshirt freshmen/sophomores on that team.

Exactly... Did most the top level players on this team live up to the hype? No..... but can't call it a disappointment when they are key players on a 12-0 team

 

[MNIrishman]

I chalk it up to piss poor development. Im just not sold on BKs ability to develop. When you have that guy at Mich state taking 2 and 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars, that is a developer. What about Boise State? BK takes 4-5 stars and they perform like 2 and 3 stars consistently.

I was speaking to a ND grad yesterday and he went to ND back in Parseghian's day. We were talking about how everyone gets up for ND and how .500 teams play like .900 teams vs ND. My response was, everyone gets up for Bama now. Does not everyone on the West coast get up for USC big time? Doesnt everyone get up for OSU in the B10? Bama beats the scrubs teams by 40 pts. ND beats the Purdues by 3 with a minute to go. Wasnt a lot left to reply with.

I realize being a coach at ND requires a successful mix of skills. For example, you cant get drunk at an ND function, spew crap and keep your job. You have to be able to speak with the media well. And you have to win. Seems BK is really good at 1 and 2. 3 maybe not so good.

Rebuttal:

2014 National Champ OSU was down vs. Navy at the half.
2014 OSU needed overtime to beat 7-6 Penn State
2014 OSU flippin' lost to 7-6 VT
In 2002, National Champ OSU needed a come-from-behind miracle to beat Purdue in a play that came to be known as the "Holy Buckeye," winning 10-6.
In 2012, undefeated OSU needed overtime and an incredible amount of luck to beat Purdue.
In 2012, undefeated OSU beat 4-win Indiana by 3 points.

2014 Georgia lost to 7-5 Florida.

Saban-led Alabama has lost to Louisiana-Monroe and in 2014, managed to beat 6-loss Arky by a whopping point.

In 2007, #5 MI lost to Appalachian State.

My point is, shit happens to everybody. I'm NOT saying that Kelly has a track record that excuses these, but you can't put everyone else's greatest games against our worst/most-mediocre games and expect that to be a reasonable comparison. Also, I know it's Ohio State heavy. I'm just more familiar with them, but I bet other teams have a lot of good examples too.

 

[Irish#1]

I chalk it up to piss poor development. Im just not sold on BKs ability to develop. When you have that guy at Mich state taking 2 and 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars, that is a developer. What about Boise State? BK takes 4-5 stars and they perform like 2 and 3 stars consistently.

I was speaking to a ND grad yesterday and he went to ND back in Parseghian's day. We were talking about how everyone gets up for ND and how .500 teams play like .900 teams vs ND. My response was, everyone gets up for Bama now. Does not everyone on the West coast get up for USC big time? Doesnt everyone get up for OSU in the B10? Bama beats the scrubs teams by 40 pts. ND beats the Purdues by 3 with a minute to go. Wasnt a lot left to reply with.

I realize being a coach at ND requires a successful mix of skills. For example, you cant get drunk at an ND function, spew crap and keep your job. You have to be able to speak with the media well. And you have to win. Seems BK is really good at 1 and 2. 3 maybe not so good.

I don't agree with this. Most of the teams that USC, OSU and Bama play, they play on a regular basis so the excitement factor isn't there as it is for the teams that are playing ND for the first time or the first time in a while. Plus, they have the ultra cupcakes on their schedule, that no matter how high they get, they can't elevate themselves to a level to where their talent can beat these teams. beat

 

[phork]

Man those injuries though. Be interesting to compare those classes with other big time programs.

 

[RDU Irish]

And, yeah, no way we do what we did in 2012 without Tuitt, Golson, Farley, even Daniels. All of whom were redshirt freshmen/sophomores on that team.

Compare that to the 2014 class that might be the lynchpin to a playoff run in 2015.

Do Trumbetti, Cage, Bonner, Blankenship and Hayes add up to help our D-line as much as Tuitt did in 2012? Some might argue Trumbetti is as good as Tuitt so the other guys would be a bonus.

Tranquill, Morgan and Martini contribute on D too, in 2012 Niklas was figuring out LB duties.

Luatua will be a big contributor at TE (literally and figuratively). Quentin Nelson, if he doesn't earn a starting spot will be valuable depth pushing the first string. Justin Brent won't be called upon because we don't need him thanks to ridiculous WR depth. Holmes is in a similar boat. Are they better than sophomore TJ Jones and Daniels who benefited from early PT thanks to weak competition ahead of them?

Newsome as a quality punter shouldn't be discounted too much either, not as valuable as Brindza but that is because we brought in Yoon for a place kicking ace. That unit is overall could be considered better than Brindza (who was very good).

Help me out with who I am missing but the current sophomores look way deeper with plenty of star power to exceed the 2012 sophomore contribution.

 

[Corry]

I really don't see the beef with this class. The number one job of the coaching staff is identify talent. This class has already had 4 players drafted and when it's all said and done will have 3 or 4 more players either drafted or going undrafted but, playing preseason games in the NFL. When a third of your class ends up in the NFL that's a good class.

 

[IrishLax]

I chalk it up to piss poor development. Im just not sold on BKs ability to develop. When you have that guy at Mich state taking 2 and 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars, that is a developer. What about Boise State? BK takes 4-5 stars and they perform like 2 and 3 stars consistently.

I was speaking to a ND grad yesterday and he went to ND back in Parseghian's day. We were talking about how everyone gets up for ND and how .500 teams play like .900 teams vs ND. My response was, everyone gets up for Bama now. Does not everyone on the West coast get up for USC big time? Doesnt everyone get up for OSU in the B10? Bama beats the scrubs teams by 40 pts. ND beats the Purdues by 3 with a minute to go. Wasnt a lot left to reply with.

I realize being a coach at ND requires a successful mix of skills. For example, you cant get drunk at an ND function, spew crap and keep your job. You have to be able to speak with the media well. And you have to win. Seems BK is really good at 1 and 2. 3 maybe not so good.

The bolded is just not accurate. Bama/OSU/USC don't wax all the "bad" teams they play. Carroll famously lost a game to Stanford where they were a 40 point favorite. If you go back through the last decade+ of USC football you will find an example or two every year where they were played close or lost to an extremely inferior opponent.

OSU needed overtime (and multiple really, really bad calls) to beat a bad Penn State team last year. They lost to a bad VT team. They beat Minnesota by a single score. They were up by a single point over Indiana in the 4th quarter. They led Michigan by a measly TD in the 4th (whereas lowly Notre Dame smoked those fools).

Bama beat 6-6 Arkansas by a single point in a 14-13 slogfest thanks to a blocked PAT. Arkansas led the game in the 4th. Bama needed OT against 5-loss LSU. Bama was only up 7 on unranked WVU for most of the 4th quarter.

Notre Dame gets unfairly criticized for "style points" for three reasons:
1) Haters.
2) Not playing in a conference means there is no "it's a tough conference game" narrative.
3) Everyone watches ND games, where as a lot of the games other elite programs play against "bad" teams don't get national TV or a lot of eyeballs. As such, Ohio State can play like ass for 3 quarters against Indiana and no one gives a shit. People can see Alabama beat Arkansas by a single point, but no one besides Bama fans are actually watching that game and see point #2.