Superconferences & Realignment

[IrishLion]

It's gonna happen eventually.

Once Texas officially kills Big XII expansion and makes a big move to some other conference, the Big XII will fold up.

That leaves the B1G, the Pac 12 and the ACC to sort out the prizes from more realignment.

 

[NDRock]

I would be surprised if ND joined a conference because of money (as Brando thinks they will). We'll join a conference if that's the only way to make the playoffs, IMO.

 

[BobbyMac]

It's all in Texas' hands.

I also believe we'll not see an 8 team playoff because that would mean once Texas goes to the B1G, the expanded playoff makes a 5 conference / ND independent model feasable. With only the ACC, B1G, PAC and SEC, the 4 team playoff is ideal. The big boys cut out the AAC and MWC they don't want and absorb the ones in markets they want.

In other words, enjoy your titles while you can ND St because Boise's on their way to the new FCS

 

[calvegas04]

I can't see Texas going to the big 10, I can see them in the pac or sec

 

[dales5050]

I would be surprised if ND joined a conference because of money (as Brando thinks they will). We'll join a conference if that's the only way to make the playoffs, IMO.

Listening to what Tim Brando has to say about ND is like listening to what a Vegan has to say about which cut of steak you get at Peter Lugers. Here is a quote from him:

I do believe it’s going to happen, and I believe it’s going to happen when Notre Dame understands that it’s in their financial best interest to be in a conference, because they cannot command the same dollar from NBC or any other network by simply having seven home games televised.​

What Brando does not get is unlike the SEC where schools have an average endowment of $1.3 Billion or $850 Million if you remove aTm and Vandy...ND has over $10B. It also has Malpass working to build that.

ND does not need the difference between the NBC and ESPN deals. It already has 'F*ck You Money'....

Sorry for the rant. You're right in ND will only join a conference if it does not have a path to a NC as an Indy.

 

[BobbyMac]

I can't see Texas going to the big 10, I can see them in the pac or sec

They won't go to the SEC.

They are an AAU member school which all B1G schools have to be for membership. In the end as much as people think this is driven by sports, the eggheads will make the decision using egghead criteria. Sports fans forget how much money is in the business of research. We tend to only think about 6 Saturday's in the fall and March Madness. Those microscopes and wind tunnels are bringing in millions everyday.

 

[NDohio]

Listening to what Tim Brando has to say about ND is like listening to what a Vegan has to say about which cut of steak you get at Peter Lugers. Here is a quote from him:

I do believe it’s going to happen, and I believe it’s going to happen when Notre Dame understands that it’s in their financial best interest to be in a conference, because they cannot command the same dollar from NBC or any other network by simply having seven home games televised.​

What Brando does not get is unlike the SEC where schools have an average endowment of $1.3 Billion or $850 Million if you remove aTm and Vandy...ND has over $10B. It also has Malpass working to build that.

ND does not need the difference between the NBC and ESPN deals. It already has 'F*ck You Money'....

Sorry for the rant. You're right in ND will only join a conference if it does not have a path to a NC as an Indy.

I have been one of those that is OK with ND joining a conference and I do think it would ease our path to the playoffs. Tim Brando is a tool though and so I hope we don't join the ACC and win a bunch more 'ships as an independent...

 

[Legacy]

which do you think happens first?:
-playoff goes beyond 4 teams or
-"super" conferences are created

or #3 - the players get paid

 

[Irish#1]

They won't go to the SEC.

They are an AAU member school which all B1G schools have to be for membership. In the end as much as people think this is driven by sports, the eggheads will make the decision using egghead criteria. Sports fans forget how much money is in the business of research. We tend to only think about 6 Saturday's in the fall and March Madness. Those microscopes and wind tunnels are bringing in millions everyday.

You're right. They'll be in the B1G before any other conference. They weren't too far from making that leap not too long ago, until the Big12 salvaged things at the last minutes. Geographically, Texas to the B1G doesn't make sense, but from an academic point they are a perfect fit and geography has little to do with conference affiliation anymore.

 

[calvegas04]

Isn't texas tied to some other school? I thought I remember hearing where they go another school has to be with them, I could be wrong tho

 

[BobbyMac]

You're right. They'll be in the B1G before any other conference. They weren't too far from making that leap not too long ago, until the Big12 salvaged things at the last minutes. Geographically, Texas to the B1G doesn't make sense, but from an academic point they are a perfect fit and geography has little to do with conference affiliation anymore.

Geographically the SEC makes the most sense but the B1G is probably second over the PAC in total travel miles. Rutgers in 400 miles closer to Austin than Seattle is. Folks back east forget how big the west is. When you're here in LA, the nearest P5 schools are 400 miles away in the Bay or Phoenix. IU has 15 or so P5's from 3 conferences in that distance.

In the end when it goes to 4, 20 team superconferences, either Texas, KU, Mizzou and depending how far down the road this happens, A&M will end up in the B1G

or

Texas, OU, OSU and the chosens from the Texas U's, K State, Colo St, BYU, Boise, Iowa St go to the PAC.

 

[koonja]

Oklahoma to the SEC because their academics are just as bad. Texas I think has too high of standards to relate to the SEC. I see Texas as Big 12 or Pac 12 forever.

 

[BobbyMac]

Isn't texas tied to some other school? I thought I remember hearing where they go another school has to be with them, I could be wrong tho

Spiritually OU. But they were spiritually tied to A&M too. In state, Baylor and Tech carry a lot of weight at the state level. Former Gov. Ann Richards was a Baylor grad and she was a cornerstone of how the Big 12 came to be because they were trying to leave Baylor out. Then she got involved with all the other Baylor political alums. Tech has a powerful group that learned from Baylor's powerplay.

Here's a wild one for you when it comes to possibilities. One school that has not publicly been lobbying for a seat at the table is Rice. With Texas schools possibly in 3 major conferences, Those conferences are going to look at the Houston market for a presence. UofH has it's pluses including billionaire Tilman Fetitta who is trying to get the Cougars into the Big12 at the moment but Rice has AAU membership, an endowment that would put them at #3 in the B1G today and they have facilities that could handle P4 level demands. The stadium holds over 70k and hosted the Super Bowl in the 70's.

 

[IrishLion]

Big XII championship game is back on in '17.

I wonder if this is a bridge to expansion, or a brick wall.

 

[ACamp1900]

Way more tied to OU than they ever were to A&M tho, in fairness...

 

[IrishLion]

Man, the more I think about it, the more dumb it is that they added a championship game.

They have created MORE roadblocks for themselves in terms of getting to the CFP, rather than helping themselves. All about the $$$.

 

[BobbyMac]

Way more tied to OU than they ever were to A&M tho, in fairness...

It seems bigger from the outside but in state it's a lot closer than you think. Those people have to live together. I can tell you it's very much the same as when ND had SC and Michigan on the schedule. You can say SC is the big one until you go to both games and see the hatred in the parking lot towards UM that completely blows away the feelings towards SC.

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm writing something long on this topic, but I'll summarize it here. IMO the best and most long term solution to the super conference debate is for the Big 12 to dissolve. I would do a faux expansion on the playoffs to 16 teams.

I would have 4 super conferences the ACC, SEC, Pac, and BIG10 (which I would rename) Each conference would have two divisions of 8 teams each.

Then there would be 8 teir 2 conferences with 8 teams each. That gets you to 128.

The "first round" of the playoffs would be the 4 super conferences championship games and the 8 regular season champions from the teir 2 schools.

Everyone plays an 8 game in conference schedule with 4 out of conference or cross divisional games to protect rivalries. No more D2 games.

 

[ACamp1900]

It seems bigger from the outside but in state it's a lot closer than you think. Those people have to live together. I can tell you it's very much the same as when ND had SC and Michigan on the schedule. You can say SC is the big one until you go to both games and see the hatred in the parking lot towards UM that completely blows away the feelings towards SC.

I say that having family all over Texas and Oklahoma, including alums of all three schools... Trust me, A&M UT was not some small thing but still... OU and UT is MUCH more of a thing (tied to each other) than UT A&M... Heck there's a reason why A&M left and Texas hardly cared, but on the flip they won't make a move without OU

Although you're right on the hate factor, OU and UT don't really hate each other like that, everyone in the big 12 hated A& M before they ever left, more so now.

 

[calvegas04]

I'm writing something long on this topic, but I'll summarize it here. IMO the best and most long term solution to the super conference debate is for the Big 12 to dissolve. I would do a faux expansion on the playoffs to 16 teams.

I would have 4 super conferences the ACC, SEC, Pac, and BIG10 (which I would rename) Each conference would have two divisions of 8 teams each.

Then there would be 8 teir 2 conferences with 8 teams each. That gets you to 128.

The "first round" of the playoffs would be the 4 super conferences championship games and the 8 regular season champions from the teir 2 schools.

Everyone plays an 8 game in conference schedule with 4 out of conference or cross divisional games to protect rivalries. No more D2 games.

That does sound good to me, only thing I would wonder about is what if a teir 2 team ends up good enough to go teir 1? Do you remove a teir 1 team or expand?

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm writing something long on this topic, but I'll summarize it here. IMO the best and most long term solution to the super conference debate is for the Big 12 to dissolve. I would do a faux expansion on the playoffs to 16 teams.

I would have 4 super conferences the ACC, SEC, Pac, and BIG10 (which I would rename) Each conference would have two divisions of 8 teams each.

Then there would be 8 teir 2 conferences with 8 teams each. That gets you to 128.

The "first round" of the playoffs would be the 4 super conferences championship games and the 8 regular season champions from the teir 2 schools.

Everyone plays an 8 game in conference schedule with 4 out of conference or cross divisional games to protect rivalries. No more D2 games.

Can't be done with 16.

They will not leave some markets form the AAC and MW on the table when they divide 'em up. Plus, you have to delete somebody and I doubt Wake Forest is going to be happy with that...

 

[BobbyMac]

I say that having family all over Texas and Oklahoma, including alums of all three schools... Trust me, A&M UT was not some small thing but still... OU and UT is MUCH more of a thing (tied to each other) than UT A&M... Heck there's a reason why A&M left and Texas hardly cared, but on the flip they won't make a move without OU

Although you're right on the hate factor, OU and UT don't really hate each other like that, everyone in the big 12 hated A& M before they ever left, more so now.

I have the same dynamic. My Oklahoma relatives... yeah it's everything to them. My Texas family, the hate is equally spread. The Red River Shootout is a better marketed rivalry but the other was longer if not as high profile nationwide.

And if you think that UT will not drop OU off at the OUthouse on the way to the B1G, just watch. The people who run UT, although they like to brag about their football are proud of their university's standing in the world community. When the eggheads win out and chose the B1G because it's where they belong when considering all facets of the university's true mission, they will all take pride in the fact that OU is now playing Colorado on a yearly basis with 30 guys that just graduated from Garden City CC.

 

[GATTACA!]

That does sound good to me, only thing I would wonder about is what if a teir 2 team ends up good enough to go teir 1? Do you remove a teir 1 team or expand?

I think the best solution, even though the P5 schools probably would never agree to it would be relegation. Handle it just like how European soccer does it. Relegating eery year doesn’t seem realistic because schedules are made way ahead of time. So maybe do it in two year cycles. It's set up with some natural geographic partners. PAC 12 and Mountain West BIG 10 and MAC ect

So every two years the best MAC team moves into the BIG 10 and Purdue drops into the MAC. I think it works out because then Purdue gets two years to dominate lower competition and gets a chance to win the lower conference and actually make the playoffs. Meanwhile whoever makes it up into the BIG 10 gets to feel like they are a part of the big leagues.

Edit: Plus if that team that moved into the BIG 10 is really up to snuff and worthy of being in a super conference then they won't be relegated back down to the MAC because they will continue to win.

Edit 2: Additionally it keeps the season interesting for teams that are having poor seasons. Now that late season matchup between 2-9 Illinois and 1-10 Maryland actually matters because both fan bases don't want to see their teams sent down.

 

[GATTACA!]

Can't be done with 16.

They will not leave some markets form the AAC and MW on the table when they divide 'em up. Plus, you have to delete somebody and I doubt Wake Forest is going to be happy with that...

I'm sorry I'm not really following what you're getting at. The P5 schools right now have 54 teams without the BIG 12. So once they dissolve the SEC ACC and Big all pick up 2 teams and the Pac 12 adds 4. That's exactly how many schools are in the BIG 12.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm sorry I'm not really following what you're getting at. The P5 schools right now have 54 teams without the BIG 12. So once they dissolve the SEC ACC and Big all pick up 2 teams and the Pac 12 adds 4. That's exactly how many schools are in the BIG 12.

So ND is a Tier 2 school? I used to like your posts Gat!... not so much now.

 

[BobbyMac]

Oh... I see you're plan is a hypothetical based on European soccer.

Nevermind.

 

[GATTACA!]

So ND is a Tier 2 school? I used to like your posts Gat!... not so much now.

Haha well I think because of the geographics it wouldn't make sense for the other four conferences to just pick up all of the BIG 12. There would probably need to be some shuffling and trading. I don't think anyone would really want a school like Kansas so they might get forced into a lower conference in this scenario.

Besides even if ND was put in the second teir we would just wreck shit go undefeated for two seasons, be in the playoffs both years, and then replace whoever gets relegated the first time it comes around.

 

[BobbyMac]

O

Haha well I think because of the geographics it wouldn't make sense for the other four conferences to just pick up all of the BIG 12. There would probably need to be some shuffling and trading. I don't think anyone would really want a school like Kansas so they might get forced into a lower conference in this scenario.

Besides even if ND was put in the second teir we would just wreck shit go undefeated for two seasons, be in the playoffs both years, and then replace whoever gets relegated the first time it comes around.

KU will be in the B1G when the big one hits. They are an AAU school and bring a money maker in basketball with widespread, middle America viewership and the KC market which is actually #30 in the US.

And no one's gonna take the Euro model. They are all used to guaranteed money models. Remember, this money is co-mingled with tax payer funds at state institutions. You can't have a Kansas football team getting busted down to FCS and then have a shortfall of $10M because the team sucked.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have the same dynamic. My Oklahoma relatives... yeah it's everything to them. My Texas family, the hate is equally spread. The Red River Shootout is a better marketed rivalry but the other was longer if not as high profile nationwide.

And if you think that UT will not drop OU off at the OUthouse on the way to the B1G, just watch. The people who run UT, although they like to brag about their football are proud of their university's standing in the world community. When the eggheads win out and chose the B1G because it's where they belong when considering all facets of the university's true mission, they will all take pride in the fact that OU is now playing Colorado on a yearly basis with 30 guys that just graduated from Garden City CC.

Maybe the eggheads do win, that means nothing to my point tho...

 

[GATTACA!]

KU will be in the B1G when the big one hits. They are an AAU school and bring a money maker in basketball with widespread, middle America viewership and the KC market which is actually #30 in the US.

And no one's gonna take the Euro model. They are all used to guaranteed money models. Remember, this money is co-mingled with tax payer funds at state institutions. You can't have a Kansas football team getting busted down to FCS and then have a shortfall of $10M because the team sucked.

Yeah I was just throwing KU out there because their football program sucks. Ik the whole relegation idea would never happen. I was just saying what would be best for the fans and the game itself. We all know the almighty dollar is what actually counts.