Superconferences & Realignment

[woomba]

It seems odd to be using Wisconsin as an example - a two loss conf champion that was ranked near #10?

But Oklahoma State? Absolutely.

 

[phork]

Alabama didn't "pull out a win." They were clearly one of the three best teams in the country the entire season last year. Only reason they weren't number one is because they lost an extremely close game to another of the three best teams. You really think Wisconsin was more deserving of a title shot?

Then I guess they should have won their conference? Again I bring up the point that college footballs regular season means everything. Alabama had their shot at #1 and **** the bed. Frankly I don't know why they have divisions in conferences. Take the top 2 teams in the conference and they play for the conference championship.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Frankly I don't know why they have divisions in conferences. Take the top 2 teams in the conference and they play for the conference championship.

...how do you expect them to schedule games?

 

[phork]

...how do you expect them to schedule games?

Randomly choose 9 conference teams? Its not rocket science...

 

[FLDomer]

Randomly choose 9 conference teams? Its not rocket science...

Ha! Agree, things are made way over complicated! KISS method, keep it simple stupid

 

[rock_knutne]

What many of you forget is that Bama lost a game which featured what........3 field goals? To say they **** the bed at their chance to be #1 is absurd. Clearly, they and LSU were the two best teams in CFB. Either team would have smoked Oky St! To create a four team playoff that consists of conference champions will still have the potential to leave plenty of debate at years end.

Assuming CFB could break itself of the cash fat bowl games........a 12 team playoff, ala the NFL would be ideal. A playoff with byes and homefield advantage which makes everygame important for seeding purposes down to the last day of the regular season. It would make more money than any bowl game could ever come up with and you would finally have a true CFB champion who won it on the field.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

FWIW, Baylor 247 writer :

"Sources indicate an agreement to bring Notre Dame’s Olympic sports to the Big 12 for 2014 is near. Then in 2017 the Notre Dame brand will transition completely to the Big 12. "

Guy also mentioned potential teams 14-16. GA Tech, one of either UNC/NC State (says other goes to SEC; not sure I am buying that because I can't see them separating from Duke), Louisville, and Pitt.

Miami was approached but not interested according to this guy.

EDIT: This is already assuming FSU and Clemson will be #11 and #12. (Forgot the Big12 only had 10 teams currently.)

 

[clashmore_mike]

no

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Forgot to add that Va Tech is also a possibility but they prefer the SEC at the moment.

 

[Rack Em]

FWIW, Baylor 247 writer :

Guy also mentioned potential teams 14-16. GA Tech, one of either UNC/NC State (says other goes to SEC; not sure I am buying that because I can't see them separating from Duke), Louisville, and Pitt.

Miami was approached but not interested according to this guy.

EDIT: This is already assuming FSU and Clemson will be #11 and #12. (Forgot the Big12 only had 10 teams currently.)

GA Tech, NC State, Louisville to Big12? (Plus ND)

UNC and Duke to the Big10?

This would keep UNC and Duke together and in a conference known for it's research universities. I know Duke and UNC are excellent academic universities, but I'm not sure of their emphasis on research.

 

[Rack Em]

Forgot to add that Va Tech is also a possibility but they prefer the SEC at the moment.

The SEC is already at 14 teams. So would they add Va Tech and NC State? I can't see them adding NC State if somebody like Syracuse or Maryland or Pitt could help expand into big markets along the northern coast (or so).

 

[phork]

What many of you forget is that Bama lost a game which featured what........3 field goals? To say they **** the bed at their chance to be #1 is absurd. Clearly, they and LSU were the two best teams in CFB. Either team would have smoked Oky St! To create a four team playoff that consists of conference champions will still have the potential to leave plenty of debate at years end.

Generally when you have your big moment and lose, you have shat the bed. I am not disagreeing with you about they being the 2 best teams, however, Bama had their shot and shat.

Assuming CFB could break itself of the cash fat bowl games........a 12 team playoff, ala the NFL would be ideal. A playoff with byes and homefield advantage which makes everygame important for seeding purposes down to the last day of the regular season. It would make more money than any bowl game could ever come up with and you would finally have a true CFB champion who won it on the field.

And thus defeating the last main awesomeness that is college football, the regular season, where every game means something.

 

[rock_knutne]

Generally when you have your big moment and lose, you have shat the bed. I am not disagreeing with you about they being the 2 best teams, however, Bama had their shot and shat.

I understand where you're coming from, but Bama lost by a field goal, and they missed a couple field goals.......IMO, that's not "shitting the bed".

And thus defeating the last main awesomeness that is college football, the regular season, where every game means something.

I don't follow you on this one ...........a 12 team playoff, ala the NFL, using byes and homefield advantage would make every single game meaningful down to the last week.

 

[Irish#1]

Who are we going to play if the superconferences conspire not to schedule us? Going 12-0 or 11-1 against service academies and MAC schools isn't going to get us into a play-off.

That's the only reason we're even having this debate at the moment. If the superconferences form and ND isn't in one, we lose a tremendous amount of leverage. Swarbrick won't cede that much control over our post-season prospects to others.

I don't think the schools are going to give up the right to schedule who they want even if the super conferences are formed. There will be the obligatory conference teams to play, but they will still want to schedule 4-5 non conference games. You never know, but I don't think they would conspire to not schedule us. We are typically everyones biggest payday when we play on the road. As they say, follow the money.

Also, if Kelly gets this team to start winning 10+ games a year, I think the Irish leverage goes up considerably.

 

[phork]

I don't think the schools are going to give up the right to schedule who they want even if the super conferences are formed. There will be the obligatory conference teams to play, but they will still want to schedule 4-5 non conference games. You never know, but I don't think they would conspire to not schedule us. We are typically everyones biggest payday when we play on the road. As they say, follow the money.

Also, if Kelly gets this team to start winning 10+ games a year, I think the Irish leverage goes up considerably.

We might not have that long.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think the schools are going to give up the right to schedule who they want even if the super conferences are formed. There will be the obligatory conference teams to play, but they will still want to schedule 4-5 non conference games. You never know, but I don't think they would conspire to not schedule us. We are typically everyones biggest payday when we play on the road. As they say, follow the money.

Most of the major conferences are already pushing for 9 conference games a year to maximize revenue. That leaves only 3 OOC games a year, and look at how the football factories are using them already-- to schedule early season warm-up games against cupcake teams. The superconferences are going to offer even more difficult in-conference schedules, so the pressure to schedule weak OOC opponents will be even stronger.

We might still get the occasional game against a big football power very early in the season, like 'Bama seems to be doing now, but that's not a recipe for sustained success on ND's end (lack of early cupcake games has really hurt us recently), nor is it enough to hang our strength of schedule on. Once most of the CFB powers get into conference play, it will become very difficult for ND to schedule quality opponents.

Hell, it's already difficult. That's why our schedule is always front-loaded.

Also, if Kelly gets this team to start winning 10+ games a year, I think the Irish leverage goes up considerably.

Of course, but I fear realignment is moving much too fast for that to happen. Unless Kelly manages to pull out 10 wins this year, any extra leverage we could gain via a resurgence will probably come too late.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Addition by Subtraction: By letting college football operate on its own, other sports will benefit.

Great article. Well worth the read. Here are a few choice snippets:

College football is trending toward a new power structure based on TV money and access to the new four-team playoff coming in 2014. That’s a good thing for the 25-or-so schools that can legitimately aspire to win a national title. But for the other 300-or-so schools in Division I and tens of thousands of athletes getting dragged along for the ride? For them it’s a disaster, and you wonder when schools are going to figure out that there’s a sensible solution to the mania of conference realignment that now appears to be happening for a third straight summer as Florida State weighs the possibility of bolting the ACC for the Big 12.

Conferences are eating each other alive because football has gotten too big, too important to control, and the fear of getting left behind is making reasonable people do a lot of unreasonable things. And the only solution is to detach football from the NCAA structure — in terms of conferences, finances, rules, everything — and let the rest of college athletics go back to making at least a little bit of sense. If the 64 most valuable football programs want to split up into four conferences, let them align with whatever schools they want to align with and get the best TV deal possible. But for the sake of every baseball or women’s basketball team that has to fly thousands of miles to play a game that generates no revenue, it no longer makes financial or geographic sense to tie their future to football’s coattails.

Those are just a couple examples. The benefits to decoupling football from the rest of college athletics would be endless, producing a more sensible and compelling model for athletes, administrators and fans. And maybe better for football, too, if the superpowers could congregate without any strings attached.

 

[Irish#1]

Thats not exactly what I am saying. First, I don't agree with the premise that its some kind of hunch that the playoff won't expand. It will. I've heard the rhetoric that it will ONLY ever be four teams to protect this bullshit or that... Its all window dressing. 2 years ago they all said the BCS was perfect with a few tweaks and we'd never see a playoff. I'm telling you that it will expand, no doubt.

That said, that won't be the reason ND won't join a conference. What I am saying is in a few years, it will all be a moot point, simply because the playoff will have expanded before ND has to make any such choice.

I agree. The more teams more money and that is what this is all about, MONEY.

Remember when the NCAA tournament was smaller? I think it was at 16 teams before the 32, then the 64 and now 68. You just knew it would expand. Similar to legalized gambling outside of Nevada and Atlantic City. Riverbaot casinos first had to be on a river and cruise. Next all they did was tether to the dock, float out and come back. Next they never leave the dock and now they build the boat in the middle of a field dig a hole around it and fill it with water. Why? Because if it's stationary people can get on at anytime and that means more money for the casino and the state.

 

[phork]

Isn't it all about the students?

 

[Wolverine1997]

Stadiums of the B1G with my expansion scenario-

1. Michigan- Michigan Stadium- 109,901
2. Penn State- Beaver Stadium- 106,572
3. ohio- ohio stadium- 102,239
4. Nebraska- Memorial Stadium- 81,067
5. Notre Dame- Notre Dame Stadium- 80,795
6. Wisconsin- Camp Randall Stadium- 80,321
7. state- spartan stadium- 75,005
8. Iowa- Kinnick Stadium- 70,585
9. North Carolina- Kenan Memorial Stadium- 62,980
10. Purdue- Ross-Ade Stadium- 62,500
11. Illinois- Memorial Stadium- 60,670
12. Indiana-Memorial Stadium- 52,929
13. Minnesota- TCF Bank Stadium- 50,805
14. Northwestern- Ryan Field- 47,130
15. BC- Alumni Stadium- 44,500
16. Duke- Wallace Wade Stadium- 33,941

When Michigan travels to IU, NW half the stadium is Michigan fans. I'm sure that's how it would be for BC, and know for a fact it would be like that at duke since there is a huge alumni base in NC.

 

[rock_knutne]

Stadiums of the B1G with my expansion scenario-

1. Michigan- Michigan Stadium- 109,901
2. Penn State- Beaver Stadium- 106,572
3. ohio- ohio stadium- 102,239
4. Nebraska- Memorial Stadium- 81,067
5. Notre Dame- Notre Dame Stadium- 80,795
6. Wisconsin- Camp Randall Stadium- 80,321
7. state- spartan stadium- 75,005
8. Iowa- Kinnick Stadium- 70,585
9. North Carolina- Kenan Memorial Stadium- 62,980
10. Purdue- Ross-Ade Stadium- 62,500
11. Illinois- Memorial Stadium- 60,670
12. Indiana-Memorial Stadium- 52,929
13. Minnesota- TCF Bank Stadium- 50,805
14. Northwestern- Ryan Field- 47,130
15. BC- Alumni Stadium- 44,500
16. Duke- Wallace Wade Stadium- 33,941

When Michigan travels to IU, NW half the stadium is Michigan fans. I'm sure that's how it would be for BC, and know for a fact it would be like that at duke since there is a huge alumni base in NC.

Never say never but I think someone made a good point earlier stating that NC and Duke leaving the ACC is a pipedream at best.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Never say never but I think someone made a good point earlier stating that NC and Duke leaving the ACC is a pipedream at best.

We saw SDSU go to the Big East. I'm convinced anything can happen.

Two great academic schools would like to be in a conference where most schools have great academics. They would be in a basketball haven. Let's face it, those are basketball schools.

 

[rock_knutne]

We saw SDSU go to the Big East. I'm convinced anything can happen.

Two great academic schools would like to be in a conference where most schools have great academics. They would be in a basketball haven. Let's face it, those are basketball schools.

No offense but the ACC has it's fair share of institutions that boast high academics.........Virginia, Wake to name a few, are no slouches.

IMO, the ACC is better than the Big 10 in basketball.

 

[FrankMA]

Miami and Fla St. will stay in the ACC.
Miami will remain committed to ACC, athletic director Shawn Eichorst says - ESPN

 

[Wolverine1997]

No offense but the ACC has it's fair share of institutions that boast high academics.........Virginia, Wake to name a few, are no slouches.

IMO, the ACC is better than the Big 10 in basketball.

No question it does. The only way BC, NC & Duke leave though, is if the ACC gets raided down to a pulp by the Big 12 & SEC. Then I think they would want to come to the B1G and the B1G would be giddy.

The B1G has beat the ACC in the challenge the past three years, so I'll let that speak for itself.

 

[clashmore_mike]

The B1G has beat the ACC in the challenge the past three years, so I'll let that speak for itself.

Doesn't work that way. How many of those the did ACC win before the B1G broke through?

 

[ND NYC]

Never say never but I think someone made a good point earlier stating that NC and Duke leaving the ACC is a pipedream at best.

i think what folks are saying is that there may not be an ACC for Duke and Carolina to remain in

p.s. who would have thought syracuse and pitt would leave the Big East

i know some guys are hot for the Big 12, and i haver to confess im lukewarm the more i think about being involved with that lot down there.

we ought to carve out the best Big East/ACC + ND hybrid football conference if possible. olympic sports could fall right in. something tells me a deal with Texas wont end well for us. its a deal with the devil IMO. should Jack be talking to the Bog 12 Commisioner not Dodds (UT AAD)? that tells me all i want to know about the Big 12: its "the Texas Conference". history of TX and their conference affiliations is littered with misery for schools who threw in with them.

 

[phork]

Miami and Fla St. will stay in the ACC.
Miami will remain committed to ACC, athletic director Shawn Eichorst says - ESPN

I didn't see anything about FSU staying....

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I don't understand why people don't get that the ACC is dying. The ACC and Big East will no longer matter in college football.

 

[tadman95]

I don't understand why people don't get that the ACC is dying. The ACC and Big East will no longer matter in college football.

With due respect, dying and not mattering in college football is not the same. Except for a few anomalies, the ACC has rarely mattered in football. They certainly haven't been dying for 60 years. It is still very much centered around basketball. football is secondary to the original schools.