Superconferences & Realignment

[NDhoosier]

A semi-tangential question for you guys :

Do you guys feel that ND is under pressure to take on a relatively tough schedule year in - year out in order keep the value of the TV contract that it has high?

I was looking at the Sagarin SOS ratings over the past 4 years and and ND seems to consistently have a schedule around the Top 30 (aside from the '08 season where it was lower)

This was interesting to me in that it's not high enough to guarantee a national title run even with a perfect record yet it is higher than what it probably needs to be in order to get you guys into a BCS bowl with a 11 win season.

Why not weaken the schedule a bit to position yourselves better?

With you being new, I would hate for you to think we are worried about something minor all the time. I agree with your post. Notre Dame does this on purpose for a variety of reasons I believe ranging from:
1. Maintaining its rivalries
2. Maintaining relationships to help in future endeavors (Oklahoma and Texas I think point to this)
3. Maintaining relevancy in college football, even the haters cant make fun of our schedule
4. Maintaining an appealing TV contract. I am sorry, but ND vs UM, ND vs Miami, ND vs MSU, ND vs Stanford, ND vs OU, and ND vs U$C are nationally appealing games, that is half of their schedule, they you have Navy, Purdue, and Pitt that are considered rivalry games within both of the fanbases. ND games seem to always be important in some aspect

 

[phork]

You guys

I got that far.

And I would rep you for making my eyes bleed, but I have to spread it around a little bit before I can jack you up again.

 

[Redbar]

You guys are badly in need of something to take your minds off the dead period until summer practice, or until Smith, Rochell, Anzalone, et al sign. The following might not help but it's my attempt at social work.

On the topic: let's pretend that college football was really starting to roll towards a four conference dominated non-NCAA governed "let's take all the cash" pre-NFL football league. Then, let's try to "follow the money" and see if that leads anywhere.

1). Different programs pride themselves on big stadiums. That is not really a pride thing but a money thing of course. Of the twenty largest stadiums, 8 are in the SEC, and 5 in the B1G. No accident. The Big 12 and the PAC12 have just two each. Yes, that does not add up to twenty. When you go to the next twenty largest stadiums, the B1G adds 5, the SEC 3, the Big 12 5 and the PAC12 3. "Economically" as regards infrastructure, the PAC 12 lags behind the other conferences, and it shows in general profitability. Some wondered why the Big 12 would want WVU. WVU would add the fourth largest stadium in the conference as well as two very profitable major sports. Should Clemson and FSU come in as rumored, they would rival Sooner stadium in size, smaller only than Texas. WVU, Clemson, and FSU are "desirable properties".

2). If WVU, TCU [only viable because of location and "ambition" to grow into an economic power], FSU, and Clemson join the Big 12, it would be back to the Big 12 --- fellas, I haven't kept up with all the rumors and slidings about, so take the teams-to-conferences stuff as just examples for talking purposes. The SEC with MO and A&M would have 14. The B1G would have 12. The PAC12 would have 12. The SEC might just stop there. There is no necessary reason just to add teams for some Pythagorean number mysticism reason. Rather follow the money. If the SEC stops there, will the other conferences follow? Note that it is very difficult for the PAC 12 to expand. They've already snipped off UT and CO, and the reach is great. Plus, which "properties" within reasonable reach are lucrative? BYU? maybe. Boise? not economically. They'd do better with the bigger stadiums of SD State or Hawaii. The PAC 12 could decide that since they dominate the sports market of a major economic area of the country, they don't have to follow anyone else's plan. If twelve's good, why expand?? We'll still be a major player.

3). The B1G in it's way will think the same. What's profitable for us? We're going to be a major player no matter what. The B1G however has some real options to look at other than Notre Dame, though we would be the economic prize. Some of those are Pitt [over PSUs objections --- money would win in the end], Syracuse [big enough stadium and two profitable major sports, plus east coast "takeover" as Eastern football is about to disappear], UNC, VA, MD [big state research universities with decent sized stadiums, UNC easily being the most desirable property]. The B1G could take two to get to 14 and stop.

4). Would the Big 12 stop at 12? Probably not. Louisville has been strongly rumored I believe. Miami too, to follow FSU. Louisville is at first glance an odd possibility, but looking deeper one finds a marginally acceptable stadium size, "ambition", AND most importantly the TWENTY-SECOND most profitable program in college sports : LOUISVILLE BASKETBALL!! And the football team actually makes more money than three of their members as well. One could see a Big 14 in the plains. That might mean 14+14+14+12 in the big four conferences. Who's left "outside" in such a scenario?

5). ND of course. But there are others. BYU. Most of the ACC, including Duke's hugely profitable BBall program. And what is to me the great prize [other than us] Virginia Tech --- big stadium, proven profitability, national prestige, rabid fan base, ultra-stability, high-academics [though not for the players so much]. Where does Tech go?? Almost all of the prize commodities are out of the PAC-12s reach. The SEC doesn't seem to care really about change other than initiating their-prefered-style of play-offs. That leaves the Big 12 and the B1G. Where does Tech go? It won't stay in a ACC without FSU, Miami, Clemson, and probably UNC. I don't think so anyway. Regardless, assuming that teams like WVU, FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Miami vacate that area of the country conference-wise, East coast football is doomed, thus making the disintegration of the ACC nearly inevitable --- but where can the UNCs, Dukes, NCstates, MDs VAs GTs WFs BCs go? Is there any feasibility for a conference with those teams plus Pitt, Syracuse, VT, USF [another valuable property], Cincy, Rutgers combined into a fifth power? That's VERY powerful in everything but football, but could VT carry that flag??

So, there you go, folks. Probably just another turd in our punchbowl by me, but at least I had good intentions.

I remember your earlier post about following the money, but this is one part of the rabbit hole I still had not considered. Looking at universities as desirable "properties" and "infrastructure" as a determining coagulant. It's really a fascinating look at a couple of the layers of this onion that I am sure Mr. Swarbrick and his colleagues try to constantly weigh and measure.

Like phork, they are telling me I need to spread some rep around, so I guess I owe you.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Thanks Red. [Actually Phork's talking about neg-repping, as he is one of those who throw red-bombs at me {for defending LA}. So your ultimate green-gift will off-set] [not that any of that is more than a game around here].

More on topic: FSU has been one of the most mis-managed fiscal properties in this game [only a 99th rank earnings despite the 14th ranked stadium size and national brand name]. It seems valuable to the other "buyers" due to potential more than economic fact. Baylor is another underperforming enterprise. On the other hand, teams like BC and Cincy with physical limitations have few opportunities to get into the center ring once money takes completely over [unless someone would think that BC gives some inroads to the NYC market, which is probably thwarted by Notre Dame's popularity there.]

 

[phork]

Thanks Red. [Actually Phork's talking about neg-repping, as he is one of those who throw red-bombs at me {for defending LA}. So your ultimate green-gift will off-set] [not that any of that is more than a game around here].

More on topic: FSU has been one of the most mis-managed fiscal properties in this game [only a 99th rank earnings despite the 14th ranked stadium size and national brand name]. It seems valuable to the other "buyers" due to potential more than economic fact. Baylor is another underperforming enterprise. On the other hand, teams like BC and Cincy with physical limitations have few opportunities to get into the center ring once money takes completely over [unless someone would think that BC gives some inroads to the NYC market, which is probably thwarted by Notre Dame's popularity there.]

No no, I was going to Up Vote you..... I am sure the bulk of your post was awesome, but so much text in one place makes my optic nerves pulse with rage.

 

[NDhoosier]

Written by Matt Fortuna

A big thanks to colleague Andrea Adelson, who passed along Jack Swarbrick's Wednesday conversation with reporters. Swarbrick, as you probably read Wednesday, shot down the idea of Notre Dame moving its Olympic sports to the Big 12.

The Irish's athletic director reiterated that he talks frequently with Texas AD DeLoss Dodds, who had told CBSSports.com a day earlier that he had had conversations with Notre Dame about moving its Olympic sports to the Big 12. Swarbrick said that he talks to fellow ADs all of the time, calling it the nature of the business.

Asked Wednesday what kind of a salesman Dodds is, Swarbrick said: "DeLoss is good at everything DeLoss does."

Perhaps more pressing given the upcoming BCS meetings in less than a month, Swarbrick said that he was confident that every school -- not just Notre Dame -- would have access to the likely four-team playoff once details become finalized.

"I remain comfortable at this point. I haven't heard any conference champion proposals that wouldn't allow us if we finished in the top four to be one of those teams," Swarbrick said. "There have been all kinds of models for us -- some are three conference champions and an at-large. There are a lot of permutations of it. None of them that have been discussed would preclude us from earning our way in."

Swarbrick added that there hasn't been much discussion as it relates to potential tie-ins with other bowls, saying that the focus has been on the potential four-team playoff.

Notre Dame's football independence and its program's history make the school's status within the context of BCS changes and conference realignment unique, and Swarbrick stressed that a number of factors have dictated and will continue to dictate Notre Dame's and other schools' moves.

"There are a lot of uniquenesses," Swarbrick said. "I work for a pretty remarkable president [Rev. John Jenkins] who has the authority of a CEO, so I can seek his counsel and work through these issues, but it's a real luxury to have somebody that good to work with. There’s such a rush to think, for example, this is economic. Clearly there have been some economic decisions, but if you look at all the moves, there’s a certain percentage of them that don’t have an economic base to them. But it does other things for the school. For some it’s a cultural fit, for some it’s academic issues, for some it’s competitive issues, for some it’s branding issues. These decisions tend to be pretty multifaceted."

Blogs - Sports Blogs - ESPN

On college football live the other day, the BIG 12 commissioner said they would love to bring in ND's other sports, the only catch is that he would like to see Notre Dame schedule more BIG 12 teams in football, but they can remain independent.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Written by Matt Fortuna



Blogs - Sports Blogs - ESPN

On college football live the other day, the BIG 12 commissioner said they would love to bring in ND's other sports, the only catch is that he would like to see Notre Dame schedule more BIG 12 teams in football, but they can remain independent.

So let's schedule Kansas and Baylor instead of Pitt and Boston College and be done with it.

 

[phork]

The only kink in the plan is if they make it mandatory for the playoffs to include conference champs only.

 

[RazHawk]

Firstly, I think whatever system ends up being used to determine a national championship will probably include ND as an independent, so I highly doubt ND is joining a conference.

However, as a B1G fan, I clearly would be a huge fan of adding ND to to the B1G. To those of you who favor the B12, I have one question for you, how do trips to Ames, IA, Manhattan, KS, Lawrence, KS & two places in Oklahoma sound? Because you'd be playing in those places frequently if you joined the B12.

The big positive with the B1G (as has been alluded to above), is that you're playing in bigger cities (rather than the relative outposts) and in front of big crowds, which you wouldn't be for a number of the trips in the B12. Take a look at the stadiums in each conference by capacity:

1. Michigan Stadium - 109,901
2. Beaver Stadium - 106,572
3. Ohio Stadium - 102,329
4. Memorial Stadium - 81,067
5. Camp Randall Stadium - 80,321
6. Spartan Stadium - 75,005
7. Kinnick Stadium - 70,585
8. Ross-Ade Stadium - 62,500
9. Memorial Stadium, Champaign - 60,670
10. Memorial Stadium, Bloomington - 52,929
11. TCF Bank Stadium - 50,805
12. Ryan Field - 47,130

Big 12 Stadiums:

1. Darrell K Royal Stadium - 100,119
2. Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium - 82,112
3. Jones AT&T Stadium - 60,454
4. Boone Pickens Stadium - 60,218
5. Mountaineer Field - 60,000
6. Jack Trice Stadium - 55,000
7. Memorial Stadium - 50,071
8. Floyd Casey Stadium - 50,000
9. Bill Snyder Stadium - 50,000
10. Amon G. Carter Stadium - 44,358

The "bad" road trips (where you play in front of a low capacity crowd) in the B1G could be argued to be Minnesota (Minneapolis), Indiana (in your home state, near Indianapolis), & Chicago (where your largest alumni base is). I'm not saying that you would love every road trip in the B1G, but clearly it is a better option for road games than the present B12 - obviously depending on their expansion options, that could improve for them.

It's amazing how UT fans are trying to brainwash everyone into believing that, all of a sudden, the B12 is this perfectly harmonious conference that will never again experience any kind of upheaval from its members, when LESS THAN 12 months ago 4 of its most prominent members bolted for 3 other options (PAC, B1G, & SEC). Who was left? Schools who literally had no other option, plus Texas & Oklahoma. That is the conference ND wants to join? A conference full of leftovers? I get why FSU/Clemson want to join - they are stuck in basketball purgatory and have now way of getting out - plus FSU needs the cash, so I get that, but lets look at the history of Texas & conferences Texas is in: 1. SWC - dead in large part because of Texas' actions. 2. B12 - nearly died last summer, lost 4 of its most prominent members. ND doesn't make sense to me, they have a better option.

Conversely, the B1G is a conference that has been around since before the dawn of the 20th century (founded 1896) and has NEVER had a school leave in its entire history (well, except for the University of Chicago, who dropped their sports program, but they remain a member of the CIC). Further, ND has a long history of playing a number of B1G schools. Which sounds better to you: joining a conference full of members who have a history of hostility toward the conference they are in (B12 w/ the likes of Texas, OU, FSU, Clemson, Etc.) or joining a conference that has been around and stable since the dawn of time essentially?

I get the whole "national schedule" thing, but my opinion is, if the B1G could offer you 7 conference games instead of 8 in a 16 school conference, you could still have 5 non conference games to play a "national" schedule. If you have 5 OOC games scheduled, you are playing nearly have your schedule out of conference - schedule USC, Navy, Someone from Florida, & Texas - you've been everywhere around the country that way. The idea that the B1G would make ND a "regional" school is a misnomer IMO, as long as ND handles its OOC schedule properly.

What about your non revenue sports? Without any doubt, the B1G is a better fit there (most notably, in hockey & lacrosse), and if the B1G expanded to 16 with the remnants of the ACC - I could see UNC/UVA/Duke coming along with ND - those three schools have non revenue athletics that closely resemble ND's.

Finally - the 3rd tier TV rights excuse is a red herring - how many ND football games are going to get to tier 3 programming? I'd bet every single ND game each year goes tier 1 or 2. With tier 3, for ND, you are talking about airing basketball games & olympic sports primarily. I have ZERO doubt that a B1G w/ND makes way more TV revenue than the B12 does, so what are 3rd tier TV rights worth if you can get paid more by not having them?

 

[Rhode Irish]

^this is the best articulation of the argument for ND joining the B1G that I've seen so far.

I don't care so much about road-trip cities because I am a fan on the east coast (which is not uncommon among ND fans), so as long as they are on TV I am good. It seems the BIG XII would allow ND to maintain their own TV deal to some degree. Also, as much as your argument for the B1G's stability makes sense, part of its history also includes a great deal of time in which ND was shut out even though it wanted to join.

Ultimately, I think joining the B1G would damage ND's brand as the most unique property in college sports. Joining any conference would do that, but I think ND would remain more unique vis a vis the other schools in its conference were it to join the BIG XII versus the B1G.

Its just my opinion. I don't have any insight, really. But just wanted to say that I enjoyed your post for how much more sensible it is than most B1G fans who come here, and offer my perspective as it relates to the points you made.

 

[rock_knutne]

Firstly, I think whatever system ends up being used to determine a national championship will probably include ND as an independent, so I highly doubt ND is joining a conference.

However, as a B1G fan, I clearly would be a huge fan of adding ND to to the B1G. To those of you who favor the B12, I have one question for you, how do trips to Ames, IA, Manhattan, KS, Lawrence, KS & two places in Oklahoma sound? Because you'd be playing in those places frequently if you joined the B12.

The big positive with the B1G (as has been alluded to above), is that you're playing in bigger cities (rather than the relative outposts) and in front of big crowds, which you wouldn't be for a number of the trips in the B12. Take a look at the stadiums in each conference by capacity:

1. Michigan Stadium - 109,901
2. Beaver Stadium - 106,572
3. Ohio Stadium - 102,329
4. Memorial Stadium - 81,067
5. Camp Randall Stadium - 80,321
6. Spartan Stadium - 75,005
7. Kinnick Stadium - 70,585
8. Ross-Ade Stadium - 62,500
9. Memorial Stadium, Champaign - 60,670
10. Memorial Stadium, Bloomington - 52,929
11. TCF Bank Stadium - 50,805
12. Ryan Field - 47,130

Big 12 Stadiums:

1. Darrell K Royal Stadium - 100,119
2. Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium - 82,112
3. Jones AT&T Stadium - 60,454
4. Boone Pickens Stadium - 60,218
5. Mountaineer Field - 60,000
6. Jack Trice Stadium - 55,000
7. Memorial Stadium - 50,071
8. Floyd Casey Stadium - 50,000
9. Bill Snyder Stadium - 50,000
10. Amon G. Carter Stadium - 44,358

The "bad" road trips (where you play in front of a low capacity crowd) in the B1G could be argued to be Minnesota (Minneapolis), Indiana (in your home state, near Indianapolis), & Chicago (where your largest alumni base is). I'm not saying that you would love every road trip in the B1G, but clearly it is a better option for road games than the present B12 - obviously depending on their expansion options, that could improve for them.

It's amazing how UT fans are trying to brainwash everyone into believing that, all of a sudden, the B12 is this perfectly harmonious conference that will never again experience any kind of upheaval from its members, when LESS THAN 12 months ago 4 of its most prominent members bolted for 3 other options (PAC, B1G, & SEC). Who was left? Schools who literally had no other option, plus Texas & Oklahoma. That is the conference ND wants to join? A conference full of leftovers? I get why FSU/Clemson want to join - they are stuck in basketball purgatory and have now way of getting out - plus FSU needs the cash, so I get that, but lets look at the history of Texas & conferences Texas is in: 1. SWC - dead in large part because of Texas' actions. 2. B12 - nearly died last summer, lost 4 of its most prominent members. ND doesn't make sense to me, they have a better option.

Conversely, the B1G is a conference that has been around since before the dawn of the 20th century (founded 1896) and has NEVER had a school leave in its entire history (well, except for the University of Chicago, who dropped their sports program, but they remain a member of the CIC). Further, ND has a long history of playing a number of B1G schools. Which sounds better to you: joining a conference full of members who have a history of hostility toward the conference they are in (B12 w/ the likes of Texas, OU, FSU, Clemson, Etc.) or joining a conference that has been around and stable since the dawn of time essentially?

I get the whole "national schedule" thing, but my opinion is, if the B1G could offer you 7 conference games instead of 8 in a 16 school conference, you could still have 5 non conference games to play a "national" schedule. If you have 5 OOC games scheduled, you are playing nearly have your schedule out of conference - schedule USC, Navy, Someone from Florida, & Texas - you've been everywhere around the country that way. The idea that the B1G would make ND a "regional" school is a misnomer IMO, as long as ND handles its OOC schedule properly.

What about your non revenue sports? Without any doubt, the B1G is a better fit there (most notably, in hockey & lacrosse), and if the B1G expanded to 16 with the remnants of the ACC - I could see UNC/UVA/Duke coming along with ND - those three schools have non revenue athletics that closely resemble ND's.

Finally - the 3rd tier TV rights excuse is a red herring - how many ND football games are going to get to tier 3 programming? I'd bet every single ND game each year goes tier 1 or 2. With tier 3, for ND, you are talking about airing basketball games & olympic sports primarily. I have ZERO doubt that a B1G w/ND makes way more TV revenue than the B12 does, so what are 3rd tier TV rights worth if you can get paid more by not having them?

You make some good points.

The Big 10 passed over ND many moons ago when ND wanted in. The Big 10 came calling a couple times recently and ND said no. The Big 10 and Big 12 need ND, ND under the current system doesn't need anyone. IMO, the Big East will remain intact and will still be a very good fit for ND's Olympic sports programs.

In short........ND isn't joining a conference anytime soon. Jack Swarbrick is as cagy an AD as any in the country, there's no way that CFB goes forward with a playoff that doesn't include an independent ND.

 

[rock_knutne]

^this is the best articulation of the argument for ND joining the B1G that I've seen so far.

I don't care so much about road-trip cities because I am a fan on the east coast (which is not uncommon among ND fans), so as long as they are on TV I am good. It seems the BIG XII would allow ND to maintain their own TV deal to some degree. Also, as much as your argument for the B1G's stability makes sense, part of its history also includes a great deal of time in which ND was shut out even though it wanted to join.

Ultimately, I think joining the B1G would damage ND's brand as the most unique property in college sports. Joining any conference would do that, but I think ND would remain more unique vis a vis the other schools in its conference were it to join the BIG XII versus the B1G.

Its just my opinion. I don't have any insight, really. But just wanted to say that I enjoyed your post for how much more sensible it is than most B1G fans who come here, and offer my perspective as it relates to the points you made.

Excellent point!!

 

[RazHawk]

^this is the best articulation of the argument for ND joining the B1G that I've seen so far.

I don't care so much about road-trip cities because I am a fan on the east coast (which is not uncommon among ND fans), so as long as they are on TV I am good. It seems the BIG XII would allow ND to maintain their own TV deal to some degree. Also, as much as your argument for the B1G's stability makes sense, part of its history also includes a great deal of time in which ND was shut out even though it wanted to join.

Ultimately, I think joining the B1G would damage ND's brand as the most unique property in college sports. Joining any conference would do that, but I think ND would remain more unique vis a vis the other schools in its conference were it to join the BIG XII versus the B1G.

Its just my opinion. I don't have any insight, really. But just wanted to say that I enjoyed your post for how much more sensible it is than most B1G fans who come here, and offer my perspective as it relates to the points you made.

Thanks!

I think you summed it up best with this:

Ultimately, I think joining the B1G would damage ND's brand as the most unique property in college sports. Joining any conference would do that,

I guess the way I look at it is, ND can have its cake & eat it too in this process - they can join a superior conference (B1G) & schedule as many "national" opponents as they want to with their 5 OOC games. Joining any conference damages the brand, but if ND has to, the B1G is the better option.

I'd hate to see ND go anywhere but the B1G - there is a lot of history there and it would be unfortunate to see it go away.

 

[Irish#1]

Relevant in the fact that we have fans and have a media contract. Big deal everyone is getting a media deal worth the same if not more than ND.

Relevant that everyone talks about how bad we are as a team and cant make it to a BCS Bowl. SURE that is relevant.

Relevant that we are going to make it to a BCS bowl or NC. We are completely irrelevant in that department.

WE can beat around the bush but what it comes down to is at least 9 wins. We are close but no cigar. Until this team can show us they have what it takes to close a game and win I am very skeptical about any winning record from the Irish.

You obviously don't undertsand the meaning of relevant. But let's step back for a minute. What other school has their own TV contract with a national network that broadcast everyone of their home games to the entire country? What school has their road games broadcast every week? The amount of money doesn't really have abearing at the moment, because Texas contract was signed at a different time. What happenes if the Irish start winning 9-11 games every year? Ratings will go up and the Irish will get more money when it's time to renew. Bama can't do that. LSU can't do that. SC or Mich can't do that. That's being relevant.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I could live with a schedule of:

1). Navy
2). BC
3). USF or Miami
4). Bye
5). Texas *
6). Purdue
7). Michigan *
8). Northwestern
9). Iowa
10). Michigan State *
11). Penn State *
12). Indiana
13). USC *


Five fairly consistent national powers *; CA, FL, TX involvement; traditional rivalries maintained; Marquee games with Texas and USC; several games against the sorts of unidimensional teams we strangle; still no non-D1 opponents. Football-wise, I'd have no problem with that.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The Big 10 makes most sense geographically, but the population is growing rapidly in the South and West and very slowly in the MW and NE. I think ND needs to have a toe hold in eiter the South or West to stay viable.

I would go ACC unless they lose FSU and Clemson.

 

[phork]

So trips to Minnesota, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue & Illinois elicit excitement? Sorry, don't buy it. The Big12 with Texas and FSU means we'll be in 2 of the biggest football hotbeds in the country. Joining the BIG keeps ND regional and we get to crack the Midwest hotbed... Oh wait, already there.

The BIG is not going to allow ND to maintain their current OOC schedule, especially when the BIG goes to 9 conference games, and home & homes with the Pac12. NDs TV contract gets the boot as consideration for conference alignment with the BIG, its been made clear (at least through the media reports) that ND would be allowed to maintain their TV contract and even independence but joining the Big12 in all other sports.

As touched on earlier the Big12 with ND and FSU opens a greater recruiting window than being stuck as a regional Midwest team and best fits NDs National Schedule mentality. Saying that, I think if ND joins the Big12 don't be surprised to see the BIG drop all contracts for football with ND.

As far as revenue goes, ND is the prized crown jewel for any of the conferences. In the BIG I think you guys got a $25mill/school share this year. Having ND join would push that into the $30mill range. Big12 Network having OU, ND, FSU and Texas would be in the same range for fun, with the added bonus of maintaining the NBC contract and the Longhorn Network.

Think of the BIG as an Apple product. Closing watched, guarded and sterile. Think of the Big12 as an Android product. Still in its infancy, working out the kinks and much more room to develop.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I guess the way I look at it is, ND can have its cake & eat it too in this process - they can join a superior conference (B1G) & schedule as many "national" opponents as they want to with their 5 OOC games. Joining any conference damages the brand, but if ND has to, the B1G is the better option.

I think the two main factors pushing ND toward the Big-12 are: (1) it's willingness to accept just our Olympic sports while we see how realignment shakes out; and (2) the flexibility of its media rights arrangement. Delany hasn't been willing to budge on either of those for ND.

Edit: phork beat me to it.

I'd hate to see ND go anywhere but the B1G - there is a lot of history there and it would be unfortunate to see it go away.

Michigan is the only B1G rivalry I would miss.

 

[Irish#1]

The boss has spoken.

Notre Dame AD confident conference champ playoff model will include Irish - CBSSports.com

Longhorn, Why would ND be included in this? Because they are relevant!

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Longhorn, Why would ND be included in this? Because they are relevant!

You are arguing with a ghost my friend. He has already been banned 3 times.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the two main factors pushing ND toward the Big-12 are: (1) it's willingness to accept just our Olympic sports while we see how realignment shakes out; and (2) the flexibility of its media rights arrangement. Delany hasn't been willing to budge on either of those for ND.

Edit: phork beat me to it.



Michigan is the only B1G rivalry I would miss.

I don't think ND is going to the Big 12. DeLoss is trying to plant the seeds in hopes they germinate later on. DeLoss is hoping for this, because getting ND to join brings stability, money and some prestige back to the Big 12.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think ND is going to the Big 12. DeLoss is trying to plant the seeds in hopes they germinate later on. DeLoss is hoping for this, because getting ND to join brings stability, money and some prestige back to the Big 12.

It obviously depends on several things. We won't join a conference unless we have no choice. Unfortunately, the only thing that could really force our hand seems to be happening. I think the drift toward four superconferences is real, and probably inevitable.

Once they emerge, there will be overwhelming support for limiting the post-season to conference champions. Even if there's still a ranking exception for ND, it's not guaranteed that we'll be able to maintain the strength of schedule necessary to realistically reach such a ranking when virtually of the CFB powers are beating each other bloody every week in the superconferences.

So the safe move is to transfer our Olympic sports into one of the big four and wait to see how things shake out. B1G won't let us do that, but Big-12 will. Then consider that the Big-12 will allow us to keep our NBC contract, and I don't see how we end up anywhere but the Big-12 (assuming we move at all).

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

If you didn't know any better you would think Whiskey was a lawyer.... Oh wait...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If you didn't know any better you would think Whiskey was a lawyer.... Oh wait...

Somehow I don't think that's a compliment.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Then consider that the Big-12 will allow us to keep our NBC contract, and I don't see how we end up anywhere but the Big-12 (assuming we move at all).

Honestly I'd rather Notre Dame be in the Big Ten without NBC than be in the Big 12 with NBC.

Just the difference in schedules alone makes the move horrible. You are effectively hitting the reset button on Notre Dame's tradition. What rivals to you keep if you go to the Big 12? USC and Navy?

If Notre Dame went to a 14-team Big Ten, and Pittsburgh was the other team to join with them...

Six games against division opponents (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Pittsburgh)
Two games against rotating division
Two annual OOC rivals (Navy, USC)
Two OOC games.

It's not a bad setup. Notre Dame would only have to drop Stanford and Boston College.

As for NBC, you could easily mandate that if the Notre Dame (home) game isn't nationally covered on ESPN/ABC, then it must be nationally covered by the BTN. Problem solved. And in twenty years, when the vast majority of televisions will receive their video from an internet stream instead of a cable company, this will all be moot and everyone's game will be national every week.

Then you have to add in that Notre Dame wants to become a preeminent research university, and one of the best ways to do that would be to join the CIC. No other conference offers, academically, what the Big Ten does.

For me, it's either the Big Ten or the ACC. I would be very disappointed with the Big 12.

 

[dshans]

You sure do know how to pick'em dshans.

WTF?

Did your super secret IP spy app lead you to believe that I have an evil twin alter ego? (My real-life twin is a wonderful woman, all of 4'10" and without an evil bone in her body.) That I was slipping some vBucks under the vTable to this joker? Are you still convinced that BobD is NeuteredDoomer in sheep's clothing? If so, why is BobD among us a while Bambi is Poster Non Grata?

Are you really the omniscient protector of all that is holy when it comes to opinions on ND football? Do you have a file of snide, snarky and snippy comments to dip into when the moment suits your fancy? Are you truly infallible?

Sheesh! Man up, nut up, belly up to the bar. I'll buy you a drink if you promise to not spit it in my face.

Apologies, OMM, but as Popeye so eloquently put it:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h97kbv4mbsc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishtrain]

If Notre Dame wins enough games to be considered for the 4 team playoff they will not be excluded. Jack knows this .There would be such a national outcry from the SILENT subway alums that it would make the 4 team playoff look downright stupid. The if is can they win 11/12 games. 'If brother If' that seems to be the question. Nobody in sports in America will look upon a national playoff with any credence if a 1/0 loss Notre Dame team is not included. Question is can they do it?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If Notre Dame wins enough games to be considered for the 4 team playoff they will not be excluded. Jack knows this .There would be such a national outcry from the SILENT subway alums that it would make the 4 team playoff look downright stupid. The if is can they win 11/12 games. 'If brother If' that seems to be the question. Nobody in sports in America will look upon a national playoff with any credence if a 1/0 loss Notre Dame team is not included. Question is can they do it?

Who are we going to play if the superconferences conspire not to schedule us? Going 12-0 or 11-1 against service academies and MAC schools isn't going to get us into a play-off.

That's the only reason we're even having this debate at the moment. If the superconferences form and ND isn't in one, we lose a tremendous amount of leverage. Swarbrick won't cede that much control over our post-season prospects to others.

 

[ACamp1900]

In terms of scheduling/ Big 12 and all... I'm not sure ND has to lighten the average schedule to get back to where they need to be... just order it with at least one REAL creampuff to start and make sure you don't front load the dang thing every year... it's no suprise ND hasn't gotten to a fast start much in the last 20 years... the first six games are always brutal when looked at as a straight run of games...


spread things out, I know many say you have to join a conference to do that... then join a conference, because there are a handfull of things really holding ND back imo over the last two decades imo... some are systemic and not changing, other things can be addressed and the front loaded schedule is a big one for me... maybe joining a conference finally addresses this.

 

[rock_knutne]

I still say that nothing comes of this. IMO, the Big 12 is looking for two members to round out the conference, nothing more. Also, a four team playoff including only conference champions is insane.........you could potentially have a Bama/LSU scenario like last year (who were clearly the two best teams in CFB) and this time one them would be left out making the playoff system no better than a BCS title game. Just not buying it.