Stars and Rankings Are Overrated

[arrowryan]

Do you think we recruit too many 3 stars, and not enough 5 stars? Well 27 of the starters in this year's Super Bowl were rated as a 2 or 3 star coming out of high school. Zero five stars out of high school are starting next Sunday.

How each Super Bowl 2015 starter was rated as a high school recruit - SBNation.com

 

[GoldenDomer]

Great stat. I do think the "star system" can be a load of shit, but there is no denying that you want a lot of 3 or 4 stars every single year for best results.

 

[House16]

I think more than anything that speaks to how many more 2 and 3 stars there are in the world than 5 stars. Not really statistically relevant. There's a reason that the powerhouse football teams try to get 5 stars instead of 2 stars.

 

[House16]

Much more relevant would be: What percentage of 5 star recruits are currently in the nfl, and what percentage of 2/3 star recruits are. That would speak volumes.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Not exactly the stat you're looking for but something similar

Year-by-year look at five-star college football recruits - NFL.com

 

[arrowryan]

Much more relevant would be: What percentage of 5 star recruits are currently in the nfl, and what percentage of 2/3 star recruits are. That would speak volumes.

I found this article from a few years ago. They compare the amount of 5 stars drafted in the first round to the amount of 3 stars drafted in the first round

Star Power: How recruiting rankings hold up at the top of the NFL Draft - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports

 

[dad4aa]

JMO but a lot of the 5 stars in high school seem like the kids that developed early (either by natural early growth or had access to quality strength and conditioning coaches, specialty coaches, etc that others did not) and by time they get to the NFL, the late bloomers have developed and some have surpassed them. Not surprised to see so many former 2-3 star players starting but I am surprised to not see one 5 start player starting.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Much more relevant would be: What percentage of 5 star recruits are currently in the nfl, and what percentage of 2/3 star recruits are. That would speak volumes.

^This

Stars aren't the be all end all. But they are crazy important.

 

[BGIF]

JMO but a lot of the 5 stars in high school seem like the kids that developed early (either by natural early growth or had access to quality strength and conditioning coaches, specialty coaches, etc that others did not) and by time they get to the NFL, the late bloomers have developed and some have surpassed them. Not surprised to see so many former 2-3 star players starting but I am surprised to not see one 5 start player starting.

On the mark! There are many examples over the years. Ron Powlus was All-Everything then he broke his collarbone and later his humerous. His head coach was an option man who was trying to transition into a pro set so he could recruit the better skill players who didn't want to play option ball. Powlus had 2 head coaches, 3 QB coaches, and 3 or 4 OC at ND. He still set a ton of ND passing records.

After Weis promoted him to his coaching staff, Powlus remarked that he learned more in one session with Weis coaching Quinn than during his 4 years as an ND QB.

 

[BGIF]

Do you think we recruit too many 3 stars, and not enough 5 stars? Well 27 of the starters in this year's Super Bowl were rated as a 2 or 3 star coming out of high school. Zero five stars out of high school are starting next Sunday.

How each Super Bowl 2015 starter was rated as a high schoolÂMichiganrecruit - SBNation.com

As I recall NFL coaches, for all their expertise, don't seem to draft much better than part time recruiting service gurus, do they. One would think that the pros would be a better judge of talent than a former mailman from Chicago. How is Johnny Football doing?

How many 1st Round Draft Choices are in the game?

They're comparing 18 year olds in high school with 25-30 year old, 5-10 year NFL veterans who had 4 years of development in college ball. AND NFL players don't have to pass the NCAA Clearinghouse to enter the league.

 

[Corry]

Not exactly the stat you're looking for but something similar

Year-by-year look at five-star college football recruits - NFL.com

Biggest take away from that article

LB Kyle Williams, Iowa: Academically ineligible at Iowa but landed at Purdue, where he played one season. Williams was sentenced in 2007 to 37 years in prison after being convicted of attempted rape, battery and confinement of two women in West Lafayette, Ind. The sentence later was reduced to 25 years.

 

[woolybug25]

How many five star players are on teams that win titles in college?

I don't care what they do in the the NFL, all I know is that the five stars in college usually do pretty well and the teams that load their rosters with a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids are the ones winning all of the titles.

I'm sure the lack of any 5 star players in our class has nothing to do with this topic, right?

 

[koonja]

Is it even a debate? Star rankings matter, just look at the recent champions. All have recruited at or near the top based on STAR ratings:

OSU
FSU
Alabama
Alabama
Auburn
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Texas
USC.

 

[arrowryan]

How many five star players are on teams that win titles in college?

I don't care what they do in the the NFL,all I know is that the five stars in college usually do pretty well and the teams that load their rosters with a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids are the ones winning all of the titles.

I'm sure the lack of any 5 star players in our class has nothing to do with this topic, right?

Ohio State has landed five 5 stars since 2010: Curtis Grant, Braxton Miller, Raekwon McMillan, and Justin Hilliard. 2 of those guys played in the National Championship. So Ohio State proved to the entire country that you don't need a roster full of 5 stars to win it all. Would it be nice to have lots of 5 stars? Yes.

And you're right, it has nothing to do with our lack of 5 stars in this class. The SEC, a conference with a lot of 5 stars, got their ass kicked by teams like Wisonsin, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and TCU. Out of those 4 schools combines, 2 players were rated as a 5 star. Both of which play for Notre Dame.

Lastly, look at the final rankings for the 2014 season, 3 of the teams in the top 10 of the finals rankings currently have a top 10 recruiting class. So you don't need 5 stars to be successful

 

[Grahambo]

Ohio State has landed five 5 stars since 2010: Curtis Grant, Braxton Miller, Raekwon McMillan, and Justin Hilliard. 2 of those guys played in the National Championship. So Ohio State proved to the entire country that you don't need a roster full of 5 stars to win it all. Would it be nice to have lots of 5 stars? Yes.

And you're right, it has nothing to do with our lack of 5 stars in this class. The SEC, a conference with a lot of 5 stars, got their ass kicked by teams like Wisonsin, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and TCU. Out of those 4 schools combines, 2 players were rated as a 5 star. Both of which play for Notre Dame.

Lastly, look at the final rankings for the 2014 season, 3 of the teams in the top 10 of the finals rankings currently have a top 10 recruiting class

Not to nitpick but, ND winning on a last second FG isn't exactly an ass kicking. Just saying.

 

[ColinKSU]

If stars and rankings don't matter, why do Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Texas, USC, Miami and Oklahoma have all the national titles since 2000?

Shouldn't Iowa State, Purdue, Washington State, Vanderbilt and Wake Forrest have won a couple titles by now? By this logic, they should be dominating with their two-star NFL talent.

 

[koonja]

Imo, it shouldnt be as cut and dry as 5 star or not. I'll take a .97 rating over a .90 rating all day too, even though both are 4 stars.

 

[arrowryan]

Not to nitpick but, ND winning on a last second FG isn't exactly an ass kicking. Just saying.

True, but LSU needed 3 HUGE plays to even make the game competitive. They really couldn't move the ball against an defense that was full of injuries

 

[arrowryan]

If stars and rankings don't matter, why do Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Texas, USC, Miami and Oklahoma have all the national titles since 2000?

Shouldn't Iowa State, Purdue, Washington State, Vanderbilt and Wake Forrest have won a couple titles by now? By this logic, they should be dominating with their two-star NFL talent.

Not when they have piss poor coaching

 

[koonja]

When's the last time ND had a 5 star that wasn't a premier player for us?

 

[arrowryan]

When's the last time ND had a 5 star that wasn't a premier player for us?

Ishaq Williams.

Max Redfield.

Dayne Crist.

 

[koonja]

Ishaq Williams.

Max Redfield.

Dayne Crist.

Ishaq going to be a good player for us and will get drafted on day 2. Too early to write max off, plus he was barely a 5 star I thought, only by lkke one site? No argument with christ.

 

[woolybug25]

Ohio State has landed five 5 stars since 2010: Curtis Grant, Braxton Miller, Raekwon McMillan, and Justin Hilliard. 2 of those guys played in the National Championship. So Ohio State proved to the entire country that you don't need a roster full of 5 stars to win it all. Would it be nice to have lots of 5 stars? Yes.

And you're right, it has nothing to do with our lack of 5 stars in this class. The SEC, a conference with a lot of 5 stars, got their ass kicked by teams like Wisonsin, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and TCU. Out of those 4 schools combines, 2 players were rated as a 5 star. Both of which play for Notre Dame.

Lastly, look at the final rankings for the 2014 season, 3 of the teams in the top 10 of the finals rankings currently have a top 10 recruiting class. So you don't need 5 stars to be successful

There aren't a lot of five star kids. Having two of them is a decent amount, and how many good 4 star guys are in that OSU team?

Then, as Koon said, look at the championship teams over the last decade. It's littered with teams that all have one distinct similarity. They all had excellent recruiting. You give that one example (a poor one at that, since OSU had 5* kids and have recruited very well) but failed to mention that most of the championship teams of recent memory were kings when it came to recruiting, like Bama and FSU.

The fact remains, the majority of championship teams in our lifetimes were excellent in terms of recruiting. It's not subjective, it's a fact.

And I don't believe you when you say that you would still have this opinion if we had a bunch of five star kids in our class.

 

[kmoose]

Ishaq Williams.

Max Redfield.

Dayne Crist.

Add to that list:

James Aldridge

Sam Young

Gunner Kiel

Greg Bryant

 

[Crazy Balki]

Ishaq going to be a good player for us and will get drafted on day 2. Too early to write max off, plus he was barely a 5 star I thought, only by lkke one site? No argument with christ.

There are doubts that Ishaq might even be on the team next year (due to spot availability), and honestly, Ishaq being ranked 5-stars kinda defeats the purpose of the 5-star ranking. He has contributed basically squat on the field in 4 years.

 

[blueNDgold44]

Add to that list:

James Aldridge

Sam Young

Gunner Kiel

Greg Bryant

Don't understand writing off a RB with 3 years of eligibility left

 

[koonja]

Add to that list:

James Aldridge

Sam Young

Gunner Kiel

Greg Bryant

There are doubts that Ishaq might even be on the team next year (due to spot availability), and honestly, Ishaq being ranked 5-stars kinda defeats the purpose of the 5-star ranking. He has contributed basically squat on the field in 4 years.

James Aldridge is a good one. Sam Young was a star here and I believe started 4 straight years, so no idea how he made your list. Also, Gunner is a star and will be a NFL pick. Greg Bryant was as low of a 5-star as could be and was only rated by one site as a 5-star. Not to mention, he's about to be a RS sophomore. He's a bust?

Ishaq's going to surprise you guys if he makes it back. 4-3 DE is where he'll excel.

 

[Crazy Balki]

There aren't a lot of five star kids. Having two of them is a decent amount, and how many good 4 star guys are in that OSU team?

Then, as Koon said, look at the championship teams over the last decade. It's littered with teams that all have one distinct similarity. They all had excellent recruiting. You give that one example (a poor one at that, since OSU had 5* kids and have recruited very well) but failed to mention that most of the championship teams of recent memory were kings when it came to recruiting, like Bama and FSU.

The fact remains, the majority of championship teams in our lifetimes were excellent in terms of recruiting. It's not subjective, it's a fact.

And I don't believe you when you say that you would still have this opinion if we had a bunch of five star kids in our class.

Compared to ND, FSU and OSU haven't recruited all that much better. Sure some years they do, but other years ND does. I don't think Oklahoma had that many 5-star talent (but they won back before the star rating existed), but they haven't really recruited all that well under Stoops since the ratings existed. Not bad, just not great.

 

[arrowryan]

There aren't a lot of five star kids. Having two of them is a decent amount, and how many good 4 star guys are in that OSU team?

Then, as Koon said, look at the championship teams over the last decade. It's littered with teams that all have one distinct similarity. They all had excellent recruiting. You give that one example (a poor one at that, since OSU had 5* kids and have recruited very well) but failed to mention that most of the championship teams of recent memory were kings when it came to recruiting, like Bama and FSU.

The fact remains, the majority of championship teams in our lifetimes were excellent in terms of recruiting. It's not subjective, it's a fact.

And I don't believe you when you say that you would still have this opinion if we had a bunch of five star kids in our class.

I agree that having 2 five star recruits on your roster is a good amount. But then look at Bama, they have 6 in just this recruiting class!

I understand that it's a fact that the recent championship teams have had great recruiting classes. But I wouldn't say that all of their success is because of 5 stars.

And it's also a fact that you don't need 5 stars do have great seasons. Look at TCU, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, Baylor, Arizona, and Wisconsin

 

[kmoose]

James Aldridge is a good one. Sam Young was a star here and I believe started 4 straight years, so no idea how he made your list. Also, Gunner is a star and will be a NFL pick. Greg Bryant was as low of a 5-star as could be and was only rated by one site as a 5-star. Not to mention, he's about to be a RS sophomore. He's a bust?

Ishaq's going to surprise you guys if he makes it back. 4-3 DE is where he'll excel.

Make all of the excuses that you want, but this is the question you asked:

When's the last time ND had a 5 star that wasn't a premier player for us?

Sam Young was NOT a "premier player"(premier players are not 6th round draft picks). Gunner Kiel is NOT a premier player for "us". Neither is Greg Bryant. He might turn into something. But the starter at his position is in the same class as he is. If that guy can be good at this stage of his career, then Bryant should be able to be, too.