Stadium Renovations, Uniform Changes

[Irish#1]

That would be really lame IMO.

Don't get video confused with a large Jumbotron. They're talking about having monitors throughout so fans can watch the game while they stand in a concession line or are walking to their seats.

The Jumbotron and field turf will probably come in separate announcements.

 

[JTLA]

Has no one considered the awesome possibilities of a video rendition of the Jesus mural ON the videoboard!!! It could be customized by opponent, be given an ND jersey and on every extra point he could raise his arms as the ball goes over his head.

There's so much awesome to be had here.

 

[Irish#1]

I always loved playing on natural grass, but it does look like shit. I think that if a new turf helps us to perform better, I am all for it. Otherwise, whatever. Just my opinion, though.

It will help the opposition as well.

 

[woolybug25]

I personally find it ugly. I'm not trying to say it's objectively ugly or that everyone else must think so. Just a matter of personal preference.

If this is ugly, then i'm Miles Davis...

Hasn't that been rumored for some time?

There are no plans to remove this building. Period.

When people use the "nostalgia" argument for natural grass or wanting to keep video boards out, they're scolded to "get with the times or go post on NDNation." What's the difference?

We didn't bring up nostalgia, you did with your comment regarding that it wasn't that old. We are talking about "heritage" and "culture". Natural grass has nothing to do with either.

That picture is from the upper edge of the south endzone. Anyone lower in the bowl or north of the 50 would be completely blind to that view. I'm also pretty sure it still wouldn't have been visible from the field. The angle is just too severe.

Are you really saying that you couldn't see it inside of the stadium from the field? I grew up going to almost every home game. I vividly remember being able to see it from the field. You are simply wrong on this.

 

[GATTACA!]

- Because Our Lady is part of the culture of this university.
- It is one of the most recognizable features of the school.
- We haven't won a championship since it was covered.
- It's THE symbol that represents what the university is all about.
- The vast majority of fans want it uncovered.

There are million reasons why the symbol that was the centerpiece of the stadium for the majority of it's existence, but outside of that, I hope it doesn't have to be explained on why this inparticular mural is more important than a damn video board.

The Van Dyke Show was canceled right after our last championship, maybe we should petition CBS to bring it back. Not being able to see Touchdown Jesus didn't seem to have an effect on our perfect home record in 2012. I don't see how a better view of the library would have helped us in Miami.

 

[woolybug25]

The Van Dyke Show was canceled right after our last championship, maybe we should petition CBS to bring it back. Not being able to see Touchdown Jesus didn't seem to have an effect on our perfect home record in 2012. I don't see how a better view of the library would have helped us in Miami.

That's not the point. There is a stigma to it. There are plenty of people that see the covering of the mural as the downturn of our program. Whether they see that as a symbol, curse or simple coincidence is beyond the point.

 

[dublinirish]

The Van Dyke Show was canceled right after our last championship, maybe we should petition CBS to bring it back. Not being able to see Touchdown Jesus didn't seem to have an effect on our perfect home record in 2012. I don't see how a better view of the library would have helped us in Miami.

they still show Diagnosis Murder in Ireland every day

 

[JughedJones]

Understandable.

Do you also disagree about the 100% of recruits/players part?

I'm very much a non-believer, but I love Notre Dame and that "mural" exemplifies what gives me the warm and fuzzies . It's been the same way since I was a kid.

So, with myself as a sample size of one (1), who is not representative of the population you asked about.... the answer is a statistically significant yes.

 

[Rocket89]

That's not the point. There is a stigma to it. There are plenty of people that see the covering of the mural as the downturn of our program. Whether they see that as a symbol, curse or simple coincidence is beyond the point.

Why do you keep saying 'covering up the mural'? The mural has not nor has it ever been covered up.

You also keep bringing up a symbol of the University and the Dome is 10x the symbol than the mural and it always will be.

All that aside, the fact that a mural could see A LITTLE BETTER NOT ALL THE WAY into the stadium before the '97 expansion means very little. It's just dumb to think this is some sacred tradition.

As I've said multiple times on this board, the vast majority of people who sit in the lower bowl have never been able to see TD Jesus.

So we want to rip out thousands of seats, destroy the bowl configuration, just so an inanimate mural can watch a football game?

It's silly.

 

[woolybug25]

Why do you keep saying 'covering up the mural'? The mural has not nor has it ever been covered up.

You also keep bringing up a symbol of the University and the Dome is 10x the symbol than the mural and it always will be.

All that aside, the fact that a mural could see A LITTLE BETTER NOT ALL THE WAY into the stadium before the '97 expansion means very little. It's just dumb to think this is some sacred tradition.

As I've said multiple times on this board, the vast majority of people who sit in the lower bowl have never been able to see TD Jesus.

So we want to rip out thousands of seats, destroy the bowl configuration, just so an inanimate mural can watch a football game?

It's silly.

First of all... cool it with the "dumb" comments and general tone. No reason for the disdain.

Secondly, it wasn't just "a little better", you could see the entire mural in the old stadium. That is a fact.

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

For instance:

 

[IrishLion]

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

For instance:

The only issue I have is that in the second rendering, from the "top row point-of-view," even if you re-extend the seating to where it currently is, you can't see as much of TDJ as the design shows. It's a bit misleading IMO.

 

[woolybug25]

The only issue I have is that in the second rendering, from the "top row point-of-view," even if you re-extend the seating to where it currently is, you can't see as much of TDJ as the design shows. It's a bit misleading IMO.

Yeah, but you can see almost the entire building. If you look to where the waist is in the mural, it's quite a ways above the crest of the seating.

I'm under the assumption that the level would be the old height of the stadium, as you can see the difference in levels from the old stadium to the present.

 

[condoms SUCk]

First of all... cool it with the "dumb" comments and general tone. No reason for the disdain.

Secondly, it wasn't just "a little better", you could see the entire mural in the old stadium. That is a fact.

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

For instance:

If I had my choice take above redesign and the one presented today and combine them.
Use the north end redesign from the pics above and the new press box, luxury seats on the east and west sides and new south addition from the renderings today, oh and keep the academic plans mentioned in the article.
We now have space for a video board, new seats/luxury boxes, new playing field, and TDJ gets to watch the games again!
That's a win/win in my opinion.

 

[NDBoiler]

IMO wooly, I couldn't care less if I could see TDJ from inside the stadium. I went to my first ND game in 1988 and have gone to at least one every year since, but that's not why I go. I go to see the game on the field. I also believe that Jesus couldn't give 2 shits about ND football and that He isn't offended if His inanimate mural view is blocked (for the record, Hesburgh Library opened in 1963 and the stadium expansion was complete for the 1997 season at which point it was mostly blocked, leaving it unobstructed for approximately 34 years, essentially equivalent to the time ND Stadium existed before the library from 1930-1963). To me its not a whole lot different than the way it is now, so I just don't see a reason to get worked up over it at this point.

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, but you can see almost the entire building. If you look to where the waist is in the mural, it's quite a ways above the crest of the seating.

I'm under the assumption that the level would be the old height of the stadium, as you can see the difference in levels from the old stadium to the present.

I'm getting confused so you might completely understand my point, but what I was trying to say is that the fan rendering over-exaggerates how much of TDJ you can/would see in their design. I think they are over-selling how much of the mural you would be able to see, both with the current design and their own, improved design.

Maybe someone should stop being lazy and track down some images of TDJ from varying levels in the stadium as it currently is just for argument's sake. I don't believe in extra effort though, so not I.

 

[Rocket89]

First of all... cool it with the "dumb" comments and general tone. No reason for the disdain.

Secondly, it wasn't just "a little better", you could see the entire mural in the old stadium. That is a fact.

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

I don't think you've thought this through all the way.

First, if you're talking about the mural looking towards the field TD Jesus could not see much more than a sliver of the field in the old stadium.

So the mural being able to "watch the games" is a myth. I'm not sure if you believe that the concept you linked would actually have that near complete view of the entire inside of the stadium because it wouldn't.

Now if you're talking about fans in the seats being able to see the mural. Yes, the old stadium gave people a better view---in certain seats.

HOWEVER, the added upper bowl actually gave roughly the same amount of people a view of the mural, that it took away from the people in the lower bowl.

Additionally, that concept you linked really doesn't do much except allow a small segment of people sitting in the southern part of the stadium in a relatively small amount of rows a better view of the mural.

In reality the concept actually blocks more people from seeing the mural at all. Nearly everyone in the upper bowl in front of the northern club suite towers has zero view. Thousands of people along the eastern and western sides of the upper below will have their view blocked or greatly obstructed by the northern towers. All of this in addition to no one in the lower bowl and on field level being able to see the mural.

So to recap:

1) The concept linked might actually block more people's view than add. All while breaking up the symmetry of the bowl.

2) The mural never had a good look inside the stadium to the playing field. The field has and always will be far too below ground level and it's even lower now since the 1990's.

3) If you're really concerned about this mural viewing relationship you might want to advocate getting rid of the upper bowl so it's like the old stadium. That or raise the library up a couple hundred feet or so. Neither are happening.

I've tried my best to show why getting a better view of the mural is a bad idea.

 

[IrishLion]

3) If you're really concerned about this mural viewing relationship you might want to advocate getting rid of the upper bowl so it's like the old stadium. That or raise the library up a couple hundred feet or so. Neither are happening.

What about digging a deep, deep foundation around the stadium and lowering the entire stadium instead? Rock's Valley!

 

[tko]

The pissing matches over this are awesome. Keep it going please.

 

[woolybug25]

So to recap:

1) The concept linked might actually block more people's view than add. All while breaking up the symmetry of the bowl.

How could increases the view to some in the stadium possibly lesson the amount we have now? You can barely see any of in most of the stadium currently.

2) The mural never had a good look inside the stadium to the playing field. The field has and always will be far too below ground level and it's even lower now since the 1990's.

Show me a picture facing south from the old building where you cant see at least a good portion of the mural. I remember it differently and all pictures I find (albeit not from field view) show it clearly.

3) If you're really concerned about this mural viewing relationship you might want to advocate getting rid of the upper bowl so it's like the old stadium. That or raise the library up a couple hundred feet or so. Neither are happening.

Whats up with the condescending attitude? We are trying to have a simple conversation. If you don't want to play nice, then I will have the conversation with others and you can talk to yourself.

I've tried my best to show why getting a better view of the mural is a bad idea.

And I, like MANY others, have the right to express our opinion as well.

 

[condoms SUCk]

First of all... cool it with the "dumb" comments and general tone. No reason for the disdain.

Secondly, it wasn't just "a little better", you could see the entire mural in the old stadium. That is a fact.

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

For instance:

If I had my choice I would take the above redesign and the one presented today and combine the two.
Use the north end redesign from the pics above and the new press box, luxury seats on the east and west sides and new south addition from the renderings today, oh and keep the academic usage mentioned in the article.
We now have space for a video board, new seats/luxury boxes, new playing field, and TDJ gets to watch the games, if he's on his tip toes.!
That's a win/win in my opinion.

 

[phgreek]

First of all... cool it with the "dumb" comments and general tone. No reason for the disdain.

Secondly, it wasn't just "a little better", you could see the entire mural in the old stadium. That is a fact.

Finally, you wouldn't have to rip out thousands of seats. There have been several renderings over the years by nd fan architects that show how you could 1) add overall capacity b) reveal TD Jesus and c) put in video boards. It's not an "either/or" situation.

For instance:

I like this design

...people can scoff all they want to...but part of playing Notre Dame in this stadium is facing her "ghosts"...the more prevalent her symbols the more that gets reinforced...I'll take it.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm getting confused so you might completely understand my point, but what I was trying to say is that the fan rendering over-exaggerates how much of TDJ you can/would see in their design. I think they are over-selling how much of the mural you would be able to see, both with the current design and their own, improved design.

Maybe someone should stop being lazy and track down some images of TDJ from varying levels in the stadium as it currently is just for argument's sake. I don't believe in extra effort though, so not I.

I see. That may be true, I don't know for sure.

As you said, a field view of the old stadium from all angles would help greatly. Can't find any except from higher up myself.

 

[wizards8507]

I like this design

...people can scoff all they want to...but part of playing Notre Dame in this stadium is facing her "ghosts"...the more prevalent her symbols the more that gets reinforced...I'll take it.

The other team can't see it from the field, either with the old stadium, the new stadium, or the renderings above.

The only places that could see TDJ even with the old / lowered walls are the ones visible from this image (maybe 50% of the old seats). TDJ is swell for blimp shots on NBC but you can only see it from a half the seats and a tiny little bit of the south corner of the south endzone.

 

[woolybug25]

The other team can't see it from the field, either with the old stadium, the new stadium, or the renderings above.

The only places that could see TDJ even with the old / lowered walls are the ones visible from this image (maybe 50% of the old seats). TDJ is swell for blimp shots on NBC but you can only see it from a half the seats and a tiny little bit of the south corner of the south endzone.

I don't really see what you guys are grabbing from this view of the stadium.

You could see the mural from a great deal of the stadium, but for arguments sake, lets say it was only half of the stadium.

How many can see it now?

 

[wizards8507]

I don't really see what you guys are grabbing from this view of the stadium.

You could see the mural from a great deal of the stadium, but for arguments sake, lets say it was only half of the stadium.

How many can see it now?

Less, and I understand your point in that regard. I was responding to a poster who spoke about the "ghosts" of Notre Dame and the psychological impact it might have on our opponents. With any of these stadium configurations, "field view" is pretty much out of the question.

 

[phgreek]

The other team can't see it from the field, either with the old stadium, the new stadium, or the renderings above.

The only places that could see TDJ even with the old / lowered walls are the ones visible from this image (maybe 50% of the old seats). TDJ is swell for blimp shots on NBC but you can only see it from a half the seats and a tiny little bit of the south corner of the south endzone.

I haven't been in the stadium for some time...like since the old one. It seemed like you could see some of TDJ ...from more of the field than you indicated...But I'm going off ancient memory...I'll take your word for it...

I'd like TDJ to be more visible....maybe digitally on the jumbo trons would be the only way to get the field presence I would like...either way, more is more IMHO.

 

[NDBoiler]

Some of you may want to read more about the project linked by OrlaNDomer, it answers some questions. Theres also a FAQ

Campus Crossroads Project // University of Notre Dame

In looking at the Campus Crossroads site Wooly, the initial renderings don;t appear to have even added anything to the north side behind the scoreboard, so maybe your concern will be all for naught as compared to the current state of the stadium.

 

[Rocket89]

How could increases the view to some in the stadium possibly lesson the amount we have now? You can barely see any of in most of the stadium currently.

I explained this in my previous reply. I'm not trying to be condescending here. Did you not understand? Imagine being in those seats in the northeast and and northwest corners of the upper bowl in the concept. The towers block your view. Ditto for a lot of people along the sidelines.

There is currently a good view of the mural for nearly everyone in the upper bowl with the stadium as it stands today.

Show me a picture facing south from the old building where you cant see at least a good portion of the mural. I remember it differently and all pictures I find (albeit not from field view) show it clearly.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Show you a picture from the library facing south toward the old stadium? Or show you a picture from the old stadium facing north toward the library?

Whats up with the condescending attitude? We are trying to have a simple conversation. If you don't want to play nice, then I will have the conversation with others and you can talk to yourself.

See above. Not trying to be condescending.

And I, like MANY others, have the right to express our opinion as well.

And so do I?

 

[wizards8507]

In looking at the Campus Crossroads site Wooly, the initial renderings don;t appear to have even added anything to the north side behind the scoreboard, so maybe your concern will be all for naught as compared to the current state of the stadium.

He's not worried that the changes will ruin the view. He thinks the stadium expansion in the 90s already ruined the view and he was hoping this project would fix it.

 

[NDBoiler]

He's not worried that the changes will ruin the view. He thinks the stadium expansion in the 90s already ruined the view and he was hoping this project would fix it.

Gotcha, thanks.