Split National Championship Scenario

[wizards8507]

Full disclaimer: I know that this scenario is extremely unlikely. However, if there's something college football fans love, it's arguing about extremely unlikely scenarios. Presented for your consideration and comment, what happens if...?

• Notre Dame beats FSU on the road, 38-13, and finishes the regular season 12-0
• FSU wins the ACC championship with losses to Notre Dame and Lousiville
• 12-0 Notre Dame and 11-2 FSU enter the playoff as the 2 and 4 seeds, respectively. They handle their semifinal opponents and meet in the championship game
• FSU wins the championship game on a missed overtime field goal, 27-24

Who gets your vote if you have one in the Coaches / AP polls? Neither entity is obligated to name the same national champion as the College Football Playoff. The teams end the season Notre Dame 13-1 (0.929) and Florida State 13-2 (0.867) with Notre Dame having a blowout head-to-head win on the road and Florida State having a close win at a neutral site.

College Football Playoff

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaa...ootball-trophy-replaced-184745223--ncaaf.html

USATODAY.com - USC receives AP national championship trophy

 

[gkIrish]

I don't see how a 2 loss FSU who got blown out at home even gets into the Playoff but I would vote for ND in that scenario as a voter. I don't even see how one could justify FSU under your scenario.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Split National Championship Scenario

Doesn't not voting for FSU completely eliminate any need for a playoff?!?!? I thought the whole point of this was a definitive champion that WINS THE PLAYOFF....

*I see arguments from all sides, but you have already scratched the surface of a myriad of problems this new system will create.

 

[ProdiGOL5ON]

Winner of championship game is the champion. Regular season does not equal playoffs and vice versa.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Winner of championship game is the champion. Regular season does not equal playoffs and vice versa.

I like this train of thought. The NFL doesn't vote after an 11-5 team wins the Super Bowl....

 

[ThePiombino]

Alabama

 

[ab2cmiller]

The chances are beyond unlikely, remote or even minuscule.

This is the playoff system. The winner is crowned national champion, period.

Your scenario would be the equivalent of some team who lost in the NCAA Basketball Tournament being crowned National Champs. It's impossible, no matter what scenario.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't even see how one could justify FSU under your scenario.

Winner of championship game is the champion. Regular season does not equal playoffs and vice versa.

gkIrish, meet ProdiGOL5ON

Doesn't not voting for FSU completely eliminate any need for a playoff?!?!? I thought the whole point of this was a definitive champion that WINS THE PLAYOFF....

I see arguments from all sides, but you have already scratched the surface of a myriad of problems this new system will create.

Well yeah, that was my whole point.

 

[gkIrish]

I think the OP is basically just asking who had the better season...and the answer is pretty obvious.

 

[BGIF]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[wizards8507]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Yeah because something like this could never happen.

2003 NCAA Division I-A football season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My main point is not necessarily what you would do if this specifically happened with these two teams in this season. Something like this has the potential of happening every single season with any number of teams.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Split National Championship Scenario

Yeah because something like this could never happen.

2003 NCAA Division I-A football season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My main point is not necessarily what you would do if this specifically happened with these two teams in this season. Something like this has the potential of happening every single season with any number of teams.

And that's why the logic behind it is "playoff champion=NCAA champion." All these perceived (but seemingly real ala the scenario you presented) problems that can be created are thrown to the wayside. You want to be the champ? Win the playoff, or STFU. Will people still debate, whine, and complain? Of course, but at least now the leg they are trying to stand on is much wobblier.

*My biggest gripe with all this will be the years a two loss Bama squeaks into the playoffs and wins because Saban with a month to prepare and a Bama team with something on the line is virtually unstoppable.

 

[wizards8507]

And that's why the logic behind it is "playoff champion=NCAA champion." All these perceived (but seemingly real ala the scenario you presented) problems that can be created are thrown to the wayside. You want to be the champ? Win the playoff, or STFU. Will people still debate, whine, and complain? Of course, but at least now the leg they are trying to stand on is much wobblier.

I agree that that's the plan and that's how it was sold. I'm just curious to see how the Coaches and AP folks actually vote when it's all said and done.

 

[greyhammer90]

It's the championship game. We lost. FSU is the champion.

Is the playoff perfect? No. Is it better than any other system I can think of? Yes.

(Serious question though: Will there even be an AP poll after the playoffs?)

 

[greyhammer90]

Wizard: I also feel like if you really wanted peoples opinion on this you should have not included ND as one of the two teams. There are some that would vote ND in a hypothetical situation where we went 1-11.

 

[Wild Bill]

A championship team wins when it counts. I'd be irate but would acknowledge they're the champs and take a big bite out of a 2nd place sh!t sandwich.

 

[wizards8507]

(Serious question though: Will there even be an AP poll after the playoffs?)

I know the coaches' committee (crystal football) specifically said they will not necessarily be bound to the outcome of the playoff (but likely will concur). I'm not sure if the AP folks have commented.

Wizard: I also feel like if you really wanted peoples opinion on this you should have not included ND as one of the two teams. There are some that would vote ND in a hypothetical situation where we went 1-11.

A couple of reasons... I know Notre Dame's schedule much better than I know Mississippi State's so it's much easier to frame the question without needing to do a ton of research. Also, I think it adds a nuance because ND doesn't have a conference championship. Finally, people often say "I hate abc," or "I love xyz" but then change their tune when the question is posed "...but what if that happened to ND?" We see it all the time when we discuss our rankings. People don't like when we get leapfrogged but would be outraged if we didn't leapfrog others when they think we deserve it. The bias here is generally pro-playoff and pro-ND so my question is intentionally to see what happens when those things collide.

 

[ACamp1900]

A championship team wins when it counts. I'd be irate but would acknowledge they're the champs and take a big bite out of a 2nd place sh!t sandwich.

This is my very least favorite point of a playoff... every single game should count. Just me.

 

[tussin]

FSU is champion. Once the playoffs start the regular season doesn't matter, much like the NFL.

 

[BobbyMac]

It's the championship game. We lost. FSU is the champion.

Is the playoff perfect? No. Is it better than any other system I can think of? Yes.

(Serious question though: Will there even be an AP poll after the playoffs?)

^^^ This^^^

Why would there be? It should be just like basketball, final poll is right before the tourney starts. In this case, maybe after the last bowl game is played prior to the championship game.

.

 

[greyhammer90]

This is my very least favorite point of a playoff... every single game should count. Just me.

It didn't in the BCS either. If it did Alabama would have 1 national championship. Like I said, it's not perfect, but it beats the sh*t out of every other system.

And the fun thing is that this system will only get better. A situation like this will become much less likely by the time the playoff expands.

 

[BobbyMac]

It will be better when the college tourney expands to 8.

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[wizards8507]

Why would there be? It should be just like basketball, final poll is right before the tourney starts. In this case, maybe after the last bowl game is played prior to the championship game.

College football is not like the NFL, as it's not a top-down league. It's a bottom-up association of independent programs loosely organized into conferences and the NCAA FBS. The AP poll doesn't exist because the NCAA says it has to exist, it exists because the Associated Press, a completely independent entity, decides to have a poll and give out a trophy at the end of the season. They can do so in whatever manner they decide, regardless of how it "should" be. If Bleacher Report wanted to give out a trophy and call their #1 team the national champion, who would stop them?

 

[BobbyMac]

College football is not like the NFL, as it's not a top-down league. It's a bottom-up association of independent programs loosely organized into conferences and the NCAA FBS. The AP poll doesn't exist because the NCAA says it has to exist, it exists because the Associated Press, a completely independent entity, decides to have a poll and give out a trophy at the end of the season. They can do so in whatever manner they decide, regardless of how it "should" be. If Bleacher Report wanted to give out a trophy and call their #1 team the national champion, who would stop them?

I don't disagree with what you are saying about the NCAA / NFL comparo but since you quoted me, I'll respond to your AP poll premise by asking, does the AP put a poll out after the basketball tourney refuting who is #1 as a result of the championship game?

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[wizards8507]

I don't disagree with what you are saying about the NCAA / NFL comparo but since you quoted me, I'll respond to your AP poll premise by asking, does the AP put a poll out after the basketball tourney refuting who is #1 as a result of the championship game?

I honestly have no idea as I'm not much of a basketball fan. I assume they don't? But regardless of how they treat basketball, they've ignored the BCS before.

 

[BobbyMac]

I honestly have no idea as I'm not much of a basketball fan. I assume they don't? But regardless of how they treat basketball, they've ignored the BCS before.

Since there has been a football national championship game, the AP has said someone other than the winner of the game was their #1 team in the final poll after the game was played? It may have happened but I don't remember it.

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[BGIF]

Yeah because something like this could never happen.

2003 NCAA Division I-A football season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My main point is not necessarily what you would do if this specifically happened with these two teams in this season. Something like this has the potential of happening every single season with any number of teams.

As long as you have different entities polling you can have a different results. It's why Alabama has 97 championships.

 

[wizards8507]

Since there has been a football national championship game, the AP has said someone other than the winner of the game was their #1 team in the final poll after the game was played? It may have happened but I don't remember it.

USC 2003-04.

 

[wizards8507]

As long as you have different entities polling you can have a different results. It's why Alabama has 97 championships.

That's all I'm asking... if you, BGIF, were a voter with your own trophy to give out, would you "honor" the outcome of the playoff? It seems that you would.

 

[Wild Bill]

This is my very least favorite point of a playoff... every single game should count. Just me.

I can agree to a point. The ND vs FSU game doesn't count as much b/c it may not eliminate either team from the playoffs and it's likely it would have eliminated the loser from a BCS title game. However, the game still counts. Not as much but it's still a huge game. And more importantly (at least to me), it makes the rest of the season more interesting. While that one game against FSU counts less, the rest of the schedule becomes more meaningful for the loser who still has a realistic title shot. I realize it's subjective, but I'd rather watch my team play through adversity, back door their way into the playoffs and have a chance to win a title than watch them play for a spot at the Orange Bowl rather than the Sun Bowl. Even if it means one game in the regular season means a little bit less.