SEC Scheduling

[zelezo vlk]

So you're saying Bama just hasn't played anyone of significance in the last decade.

uh... ok.

Well have they played the Crimson Tide? Didn't think so. They haven't even played the best team in their conference!

 

[T Town Tommy]

As a ND fan I would LOVE 2-3 marquee mathcups every year and then a schedule littered with nothing but complete cup cakes or bottom dwelling power 5 teams all without leaving the general vicinity of Indiana. ND would win 9 plus games just about every single year just by default and 'wake up the echos' super quick. Alas, with all our inherit roadblocks ND chooses to add yet another but doing this national grind of a schedule every single year.

While ND schedules aggressively, they have their fair share of less than stellar opponents as well. That's why last year was such a disappointment. The Irish schedule outside of Stanford and USC was littered with average teams.

 

[Wingman Ray]

As a ND fan I would LOVE 2-3 marquee mathcups every year and then a schedule littered with nothing but complete cup cakes or bottom dwelling power 5 teams all without leaving the general vicinity of Indiana. ND would win 9 plus games just about every single year just by default and 'wake up the echos' super quick. Alas, with all our inherit roadblocks ND chooses to add yet another but doing this national grind of a schedule every single year.

Sadly, it seems the power teams of CFB subscribe to just that. OSU, OK, BAMA have done this for the most part of a decade and they have been top of the food chain for the past decade.

I live in Birmingham, AL so there is a ton of Bama fans. Every time I point to the bad schedules year in year out, there is no quality response other than "they play in the SEC" like that is some kind of affirmative action claim or something. Im sure if you ask OSU fans, you hear the same thing.

Im not saying ND plays top 10 teams week in or week out but they play enough competitively good teams to make a rocky schedule. Teams that COULD beat ND. Please I challenge anyone to find a team that plays a comparative schedule week in., week out.

Yet ND sucks because they dont have the win record that comes with scheduling the Mercers of CFB.

 

[Wingman Ray]

While ND schedules aggressively, they have their fair share of less than stellar opponents as well. That's why last year was such a disappointment. The Irish schedule outside of Stanford and USC was littered with average teams.

And I agree with you T Town but average teams can beat you. Navy can beat you. Mercer and South Alabama or UAB cannot

 

[T Town Tommy]

Well have they played the Crimson Tide? Didn't think so. They haven't even played the best team in their conference!

LoL...

that's worth something like a 15 spot jump in the polls.

If Saban could ever get the rest of the SEC to join him on nine conference games and only P5 opponents, it would make for much more appealing football. No reason to be playing the powder puffs... even if it is an easy win and the opponent walks away with a fat check. Yes it would kill most schools that depend on the money to survive... but "Merica.

 

[ACamp1900]

While ND schedules aggressively, they have their fair share of less than stellar opponents as well. That's why last year was such a disappointment. The Irish schedule outside of Stanford and USC was littered with average teams.

Sure, it's still a hell of a grind when you play nothing but average teams or better tho... I'd love for ND to have multiple game weeks that are really nothing more than by weeks. Our 'cup cakes' are usually said average teams... week, after week, after week, playing in every region in the country against top and average teams is much, much more difficult than playing a couple of really good teams from your own region, book ended by teams that most power 5 teams literally have zero chance of even being challenged by.

I'm not really insulting anything, it just is. Hell, if anything I'm super jealous, I'd love a schedule where most every decent team ND played, played the same base template, increased their win/loss total through it, thereby making our schedule look far more challenging than it is while basically having a handful of 100 percent gimmies every year. It helps the grind AND the bottom line. That's the way you schedule if you want to win in this day and age.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Sure, it's still a hell of a grind when you play nothing but average teams or better tho... I'd love for ND to have multiple game weeks that are really nothing more than by weeks. Our 'cup cakes' are usually said average teams... week, after week, after week, playing in every region in the country against top and average teams is much, much more difficult than playing a couple of really good teams from your own region, book ended by teams that most power 5 teams literally have zero chance of even being challenged by.

I'm not really insulting anything, it just is. Hell, if anything I'm super jealous, I'd love a schedule where most every decent team ND played, played the same base template, increased their win/loss total through it, thereby making our schedule look far more challenging than it is while basically having a handful of 100 percent gimmies every year. It helps the grind AND the bottom line. That's the way you schedule if you want to win in this day and age.

To be honest, some of those teams we are classifying as average are really below average. Further, to remedy your concern on your second point, it is called conference play. If I were ND I would begin to try to move away from some of that past tradition - playing USC, Stanford, and Navy (yes Navy would be hard given the historical significance of what Navy meant to ND) and then think seriously about moving into the ACC full time. Schedule a Ga, Auburn, Fla type SEC team for recruit base building, and add a few lesser opponents to round out the schedule. I just don't know if ND can rise back to national relevance consistently with their current scheduling model and the demands of travel etc. To move forward, one must not keep looking back.

 

[irishog77]

And I agree with you T Town but average teams can beat you. Navy can beat you. Mercer and South Alabama or UAB cannot

They beat savior-in-waiting Dan Mullen and msu in Starkville last year.

I think the original point is valid though. But not just with alabama. Alabama at least has been playing a decent to great game at the beginning of the season, but on a neutral field. I'd like to see them actually play a true away game though. I think season ticket holders have a legitimate gripe. They get 7 games, 3 of which are total garbage. Then 4 more that range from garbage to great, but mostly falling in the mediocre category. So as a season ticket holder, yeah, I'd gripe.

But alabama isn't the only one guilty of it. Since the expansion of bowls and the 12 game schedule, the vast majority of schools are purposefully scheduling their way to a floor of bowl eligibility.

I've always thought scheduling intent is a good barometer of what teams are actually trying to do. Texas ended up sucking in 2015, but ND should be given credit for trying to play a team that has, historically, been very good. Then in 2016, the Longhorns win over ND ended up not being a very good win for them. If your "big" OOC games are against the likes of illinois, kentucky, virginia, or teams like that, then you're clearly trying to gig the system.

 

[ACamp1900]

To be honest, some of those teams we are classifying as average are really below average. Further, to remedy your concern on your second point, it is called conference play. If I were ND I would begin to try to move away from some of that past tradition - playing USC, Stanford, and Navy (yes Navy would be hard given the historical significance of what Navy meant to ND) and then think seriously about moving into the ACC full time. Schedule a Ga, Auburn, Fla type SEC team for recruit base building, and add a few lesser opponents to round out the schedule. I just don't know if ND can rise back to national relevance consistently with their current scheduling model and the demands of travel etc. To move forward, one must not keep looking back.

Agree for the most part, but you have to keep Navy...

Play SC every blue moon when you have a schedule that is void of any other OCC challenges and join the ACC full time... that would be my first move in the AD chair. I'd also tell Michigan to pound fuckin sand, we are never playing them ever again in anything and I'd send them the letter stating so on an envelope with the scoreboard from the last game on it.

I'd also get rid of the unspoken rule of never playing below D1 and schedule some real cupcake games every year.

 

[NorthDakota]

To be honest, some of those teams we are classifying as average are really below average. Further, to remedy your concern on your second point, it is called conference play. If I were ND I would begin to try to move away from some of that past tradition - playing USC, Stanford, and Navy (yes Navy would be hard given the historical significance of what Navy meant to ND) and then think seriously about moving into the ACC full time. Schedule a Ga, Auburn, Fla type SEC team for recruit base building, and add a few lesser opponents to round out the schedule. I just don't know if ND can rise back to national relevance consistently with their current scheduling model and the demands of travel etc. To move forward, one must not keep looking back.

If they joined ACC full time.

Keep Navy. Play week one every year.
Keep SC. One of the best rivalries football has.
Stanford..... I'm fine without that one.

Fill the schedule out with MAC/Sun Belt.

 

[ACamp1900]

If they joined ACC full time.

Keep Navy. Play week one every year.
Keep SC. One of the best rivalries football has.
Stanford..... I'm fine without that one.

Fill the schedule out with MAC/Sun Belt.

That solves next to nothing imo... all it does is put us in a conference without really improving/fixing the schedule.

 

[T Town Tommy]

If they joined ACC full time.

Keep Navy. Play week one every year.
Keep SC. One of the best rivalries football has.
Stanford..... I'm fine without that one.

Fill the schedule out with MAC/Sun Belt.

I would move away from USC and only play them maybe once every 4-5 years. Navy first game is a good idea. And if USC was scheduled that year, then the remaining OOC games have to be against lesser regional opponents.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Play Navy every year, 1st game. Either in South Bend for the first full pageantry, or an away site like Dublin, San Diego, Jax, wherever.

 

[snoopdog]

IMO, the SEC doesn't have to schedule only P5 teams, but to schedule two FCS teams every year is a travesty.

These games should discount the value of the remaining schedule, not add to it by counting wins..... a 7-5 SEC team with two wins against FCS schools should not be bowl eligible. An 11-1 SEC team with 2 wins against FCS schools should not be playoff eligible.

If they want cupcakes, take a chance and schedule lower ranked FBS schools like Rice or Army.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I would move away from USC and only play them maybe once every 4-5 years. Navy first game is a good idea. And if USC was scheduled that year, then the remaining OOC games have to be against lesser regional opponents.

Then that makes ND just another team. Just with far tougher academic requirements.

The secret is making teams who schedule the cupcakes pay the price for it by making those joke wins to not count vs their bowl eligibility required wins. Do that and you see those games disappear.

Fact is these teams really care less about their fan base or they wouldnt be doing it. They would be seeking to provide quality entertainment for the outrageous ticket prices. But they dont and so far, no one has held them accountable.

 

[RDU Irish]

This conversation is hilarious in light of Georgia going two generations before traveling north of the Mason Dixon line for a game. None of those teams - especially Bama - is going to opt for three mediocre P5 teams over one ranked opponent and two FBS/DII types. Would you rather play FSU and Mercer/Furman or Georgia Tech, NC State and Indiana?

Same reason Navy should always be the last game of the season or at minimum before a bye week - they ding up the team. Records of teams the week after Navy are horrendous for good reason.

 

[snoopdog]

This conversation is hilarious in light of Georgia going two generations before traveling north of the Mason Dixon line for a game. None of those teams - especially Bama - is going to opt for three mediocre P5 teams over one ranked opponent and two FBS/DII types. Would you rather play FSU and Mercer/Furman or Georgia Tech, NC State and Indiana?

Same reason Navy should always be the last game of the season or at minimum before a bye week - they ding up the team. Records of teams the week after Navy are horrendous for good reason.

This actually makes little sense.

Except for the Dline, who are getting chop blocked....Navy is give up significant size and strength in every other match up.

Navy should struggle to walk off the field after playing ND. If they aren't, that is 100% on the Irish

 

[ACamp1900]

This actually makes little sense.

Except for the Dline, who are getting chop blocked....Navy is give up significant size and strength in every other match up.

Navy should struggle to walk off the field after playing ND. If they aren't, that is 100% on the Irish

It's not just us though, he's right. I saw it a few times over the past number of years, the overall win/loss records of teams (any team) the week after playing Navy is pretty shocking, I think it's not just the blocking, it's also the system and the 'shock to the system' that gets mentioned so much, then you have to completely reboot from that and start all over... it's a unique challenge.

 

[RDU Irish]

This actually makes little sense.

Except for the Dline, who are getting chop blocked....Navy is give up significant size and strength in every other match up.

Navy should struggle to walk off the field after playing ND. If they aren't, that is 100% on the Irish

Could the Navy game have played a role in Ohio State's loss to Virginia Tech? | cleveland.com

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Could the Navy game have played a role in Ohio State's loss to Virginia Tech? | cleveland.com

Article is from week 2 of 2014 season:

Since 2009, when Ohio State played the first game of this two-game Navy series, 18 power conference opponents have played Navy one week and come back against a major college opponent the next week. (Only Maryland smartly slipped in a lower-level week of recovery, besting Morgan State 62-3 the week after Navy in 2010.)

Those 17 teams are 8-10 in the week after the Midshipmen.

 

[snoopdog]

Could the Navy game have played a role in Ohio State's loss to Virginia Tech? | cleveland.com

If you read the article you will see zero correlation between playing Navy and the following week. It's mostly low level P5 teams, many who lose to Navy anyway and then play a better team. The article is relatively meaningless and a team with the talent of Notre Dame should roll on them.

In fact it would be comical watching Navy try and run that offence against Bama. The would have very few plays with positive yards.

 

[irishtrain]

If you read the article you will see zero correlation between playing Navy and the following week. It's mostly low level P5 teams, many who lose to Navy anyway and then play a better team. The article is relatively meaningless and a team with the talent of Notre Dame should roll on them.

In fact it would be comical watching Navy try and run that offence against Bama. The would have very few plays with positive yards.

Disagree when I saw Navy a few years ago drive a very very good South Carolina defense crazy and if it wasn't for Spurrier using Latimore like a rented mule they would have lost their ^%$. No sec team wants to play Navy and that is the obvious or they would schedule them----not after watching them almost ruin South Carolina's season-no way. Alabama would avoid Navy like the plaque. The sec is very particular in their scheduling, they'll take a tough opponent early but it will be a stand up normal opponent they feel they can beat. Non of them wants to play NAVY.

 

[NDbrbkny]

They should make it mandatory for the sec to go north of Washington dc to play games no marquee games in thr kickoff classics

 

[Legacy]

Athlon's Preseason Ranking of SEC teams SOS for entire season.

Athlon's Preseason Ranking of SEC teams SOS for entire season.

Highlighting only teams non-conference schedules. P5 teams bolded.
1. LSU
Non-Con: BYU (in Houston), Chattanooga, Syracuse,
2. Florida
Non-Con: Michigan (in Arlington, Texas), Northern Colorado (cancelled), UAB, Florida State
3. South Carolina
Non-Con: NC State (in Charlotte, N.C.), Louisiana Tech, Wofford, Clemson
4. Auburn
Non-Con: Georgia Southern, at Clemson, Mercer, UL-Monroe
5. Vanderbilt
Non-Con: at Middle Tennessee, Alabama A&M, Kansas State, Western Kentucky
6. Mississippi State
Non-Con: Charleston Southern, at Louisiana Tech, BYU, UMass
7. Georgia
Non-Con: Appalachian State, at Notre Dame, Samford, at Georgia Tech
8. Texas A&M
Non-Con: at UCLA, Nicholls State, UL Lafayette, New Mexico
9. Alabama
Non-Con: Florida State (in Atlanta), Fresno State, Colorado State, Mercer
10. Ole Miss
Non-Con: South Alabama, UT Martin, at California, UL Lafayette
11. Arkansas
Non-Con: Florida A&M (in Little Rock, Ark.), TCU, New Mexico State, Coastal Carolina
12. Tennessee
Non-Con: Georgia Tech (in Atlanta), Indiana State, UMass, Southern Miss
13. Missouri
Non-Con: Missouri State, Purdue, Idaho, at UConn
14. Kentucky
Non-Con: at Southern Miss, Eastern Kentucky, Eastern Michigan, Louisville

Of the P5 opponents, FSU and Michigan have underperformed, lowering Florida's and Alabama's SOS. Arkansas's TCU game and Georgia's ND game provided increases in SOS. South Carolina's and Auburn's Clemson games and SCe NC State game turned out to be strong. BYU - an opponent of LSU and Miss State is 2-7.

 

[Legacy]

According to end of the Sagarin"s regular season rankings for Strength of Schedule:
(See above for non-conference schedules, including P5 games)

Notre Dame: 3

SEC teams
Arkansas: 13
Auburn: 15
Florida: 32
Texas A&M: 44
Georgia: 48
Tennessee: 52
Mississippi State: 53
Alabama: 54
Ole Miss: 58
South Carolina: 60
LSU: 62
Vanderbilt: 63
Kentucky: 65
Missouri: 68

Sagarin College Football Rankings.

 

[Legacy]

The 12 greatest college football matchups we’ve never seen

1. (3) Notre Dame vs. (15) Auburn – 16 combined national championships

The Irish are 28-19 all-time against the SEC. The only FBS team from the state of Alabama that Notre Dame’s ever faced is the Crimson Tide, a series the Irish leads 5-2.

The only current FBS independent Auburn’s ever met on the gridiron is Army. It fell to the Black Knights in back-to-back appearances at West Point in 1922-23 and didn’t meet again until the 1996 Independence Bowl, a game Auburn won 32-29. The Tigers are 4-0 all-time vs. the state of Indiana; 1-0 vs. the Hoosiers and 3-0 vs. Ball State.

The standard for the breakdown of total national championships is interesting.

National championships
Five Auburn teams have been awarded a National Championship by an NCAA documented selector—1913, 1957, 1983, 1993, and 2010.[17] However, only the 1957 title, awarded by the Associated Press,[18] and the BCS National Championship in 2010 are claimed outright by the University. Four additional teams have also been named national champions by a minor selector, though none are recognized—1910, 1914, 1958, and 2004.[citation needed]

(Source)

Okay, Auburn has two of the combined sixteen national championships claimed by the university. ND has fourteen.

Notre Dame national championships
Notre Dame is one of the most iconic and successful programs in college football. The school claims 11 national championships, but the NCAA recognizes the school with 13.[5][6] Moreover, Notre Dame has 21 national championships recognized by all major selectors; this is the most in the FBS, followed by Alabama with 20.[7]

(Source)

They seem to be totaling up those awarded Auburn by "an NCAA documented selector" (5) and those claimed by ND (11), though ND has 21 recognized by "all major selectors".

 

[ACamp1900]

The 12 greatest college football matchups we’ve never seen


The standard for the breakdown of total national championships is interesting.

(Source)

Okay, Auburn has two of the combined sixteen national championships claimed by the university. ND has fourteen.

(Source)

They seem to be totaling up those awarded Auburn by "an NCAA documented selector" (5) and those claimed by ND (11), though ND has 21 recognized by "all major selectors".

Auburn football future schedules

Par for the course down there... I saw an article a couple years back that awarded titles the same way across the board for every school throughout history and ND was still far in front with most methods so long as everyone was held to the same method within that count. It's when one school does A and another counts C and this school here does all of the above that it ends up how we basically have it now.

 

[Legacy]

Notre Dame AD would ‘love to figure out’ how to schedule future game with Auburn football

Auburn football future schedules

Auburn has home and homes with Penn State ('21 and '22) and with California ('23 and '24).

 

[Legacy]

Florida Gators to play two FCS opponents in 2019?

 

[Legacy]

Power teams playing two non-conference Power opponents in 2018


The Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac 12 play nine game conference schedules. The ACC and SEC play eight conference games, with room for four non-conference opponents.

Breakdown of teams that will play two P5 teams this year by conference:
ACC - 5 (two, FSU and Pitt, play ND)
Big 10 - 3 (one, NW, plays ND)
Big 12 - 2
Pac 12 - 3 (one, USC plays ND)

No SEC team plays two P5 teams in 2018.

Subtracting annual rivalry games (L'ville vs Kentucky, etc) and games with ND, all of these teams who have scheduled two P5 non-conference opponents but one team (Washington) plays these games in Sept prior to beginning conference play.