Russia Invades Ukraine

Irish du Nord

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Far too many have swallowed hook, line and sinker what they have been sold so well by modern media outlets. That Ukraine over Russia is a righteous war that the US ought to be backing (and that somehow Ukraine is a righteous nation, lol). When in fact, we/NATO, are the primary reason (or at the very least one of the top reasons) there even is an Ukraine/Russia war.

The ever expanding westward march of NATO towards the Russian border since the end of the cold war is as much the issue for this war as anything. Likely it is THE issue above all else. To naively see Ukraine as the Untied States baby brother who we are defending is based in large amounts of ignorance and effective brainwashing. I've got a pair of pliers to get the hook out of your throat if you'd like.
I don’t see them as a baby brother, nor do I care if they are added to NATO. They are undeniably, like they were in 2014 and Georgia was before them, subject to an invasion by an ruthless expansionist regime.
 

GATTACA!

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Far too many have swallowed hook, line and sinker what they have been sold so well by modern media outlets. That Ukraine over Russia is a righteous war that the US ought to be backing (and that somehow Ukraine is a righteous nation, lol). When in fact, we/NATO, are the primary reason (or at the very least one of the top reasons) there even is an Ukraine/Russia war.

The ever expanding westward march of NATO towards the Russian border since the end of the cold war is as much the issue for this war as anything. Likely it is THE issue above all else. To naively see Ukraine as the Untied States baby brother who we are defending is based in large amounts of ignorance and effective brainwashing. I've got a pair of pliers to get the hook out of your throat if you'd like.
Great strategy by Putin then lol. Get your shit rocked, look like a fool, and force NATO to expand even more.

Truly 4D chess.
 

bobbyok1

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Great strategy by Putin then lol. Get your shit rocked, look like a fool, and force NATO to expand even more.

Truly 4D chess.
Ah yes, more MSM enlightenment. Putin/Russia is NOT getting rocked. Do a little homework.

P.S. Let me guess, your reading the NY Times for info?
 
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drayer54

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Amazing --- TWO Putin supporters on IE.

Having a different view than those inspired by yellow and blue yard signs and cheering celebs traveling to Kyiv and Putin is evil is not something that makes you a Putin supporter.

Putin is an evil sumbitch, sure. But to deny that NATO didn't contribute to Russia's motivations is a little silly to me. Nothing is as easy or simple as it appears.

Also- Russia is getting serious damage while advancing across the South. Russia's map continues to grow because they pound and ground with their huge artillery damage. The late HIMARS to ammo depot dynamic has helped, but Russia is still moving and has the calendar on its side. The gas card will come into play when it gets cold, and the world's attention span will get tested this Winter.
 

Old Man Mike

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Who's denying anything?
I'm taking the position that I'll support NOTHING that gives Putin comfort.
For me, this is not the time nor the person for messing around and muddling the objective.
We need to kick this guy's ass.
 

ndfanatic78

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Who's denying anything?
I'm taking the position that I'll support NOTHING that gives Putin comfort.
For me, this is not the time nor the person for messing around and muddling the objective.
We need to kick this guy's ass.
This sounds just like the war mongers pumping up the military invasion of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. How did things go there? None of those countries contain the second largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. Maybe we should think about that? Maybe we should look at how we got here and look at all the possibilities to get out of the situation with the least amount of loss of life or liberty for all rather than a Neanderthal mindset of “We need to kick this guy's ass.”
 

Armyirish47

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This sounds just like the war mongers pumping up the military invasion of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. How did things go there? None of those countries contain the second largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. Maybe we should think about that? Maybe we should look at how we got here and look at all the possibilities to get out of the situation with the least amount of loss of life or liberty for all rather than a Neanderthal mindset of “We need to kick this guy's ass.”


Neville Chamberlain has entered the chat...
 

drayer54

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Ukraine offensive looks good so far! It will slow down as they approach those Russians pinned down by the river and without an escape bridge.
 

notredomer23

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Ukraine offensive looks good so far! It will slow down as they approach those Russians pinned down by the river and without an escape bridge.


Looks like they've made some pretty significant gains southeast of Kharkiv the last few days. Some in Kherson region as well.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Looks like they've made some pretty significant gains southeast of Kharkiv the last few days. Some in Kherson region as well.
Getting to Kupjansk (sp) is super important seems like. Cutting off russian supplies to the south and having a forward area to move north.
 

ndfanatic78

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Getting to Kupjansk (sp) is super important seems like. Cutting off russian supplies to the south and having a forward area to move north.
$200 bet that this will turn into another Korea and this conflict will last decades. Back and forth thousands dead and nothing will come of it. Total waste of life.
 

ndfanatic78

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notredomer23

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Thats because it is.

If you're implying it's propaganda, I have seen reports on the ground and Liveuamap confirmations which are largely objective.

My point about absurdity was moreso I have no clue if there are actual settlements in this area, or if they're just fighting trees.
 

Bluto

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It seems that you are conflating the presence of Neo Nazi’s in the form of the Azov Battalion with Nazi’s controlling the entire state in Ukrain. If Putin was serious about eliminating nazis wouldn’t the better approach have been collaborating with the existing government to root out this element as opposed to the blunt force of an invasion?

Also, it’s my understanding that the rise of the Azov battalion was largely a reaction to Russia annexing Crimea and the initial invasion of eastern Ukrainian.

Anyhow, I agree it’s pretty stupid making any members of that particular group out to be “heroic”. The mainstream entertainment world does a terrible job of vetting people before trotting them out if it seems like it’ll make for a good/entertaining story. My favorite example of this was when Tom Arnold and Rosane Barr were trying to be cool by inviting Jesco White to be on there shows only later to discover he had a Swazi tattoo on his hand.
 

ndfanatic78

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It seems that you are conflating the presence of Neo Nazi’s in the form of the Azov Battalion with Nazi’s controlling the entire state in Ukrain. If Putin was serious about eliminating nazis wouldn’t the better approach have been collaborating with the existing government to root out this element as opposed to the blunt force of an invasion?

Also, it’s my understanding that the rise of the Azov battalion was largely a reaction to Russia annexing Crimea and the initial invasion of eastern Ukrainian.

Anyhow, I agree it’s pretty stupid making any members of that particular group out to be “heroic”. The mainstream entertainment world does a terrible job of vetting people before trotting them out if it seems like it’ll make for a good/entertaining story. My favorite example of this was when Tom Arnold and Rosane Barr were trying to be cool by inviting Jesco White to be on there shows only later to discover he had a Swazi tattoo on his hand.
I didn't conflate anything, neither did the article I linked. Where did anybody any where say "Nazi's control Ukraine"? Putin never even alledged that. He did say Nazi's were killing Ukrainians in the break away provinces since the 2014 coup. Which was 100% accurate by all parties in those areas. The rise of the Azov battalion links back to the Maidan coup and US funding.
 
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ndfanatic78

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If you're implying it's propaganda, I have seen reports on the ground and Liveuamap confirmations which are largely objective.

My point about absurdity was moreso I have no clue if there are actual settlements in this area, or if they're just fighting trees.
I'm saying neither side truly controls that area and that it will continually change and that both sides, just like every war, will say whatever and exaggerate their positions in order to put their side in the most favorable light. I find it funny that this happens the day after Zelensky started his massive campaign for foreign investment and selling his countries natural resources to the highest bidder.

Sept. 7th


"Zelensky’s virtual arrival to Wall Street was intended as an opportunity to pitch his government’s newly-launched #AdvantageUkraine campaign to investors. The appeal represents a collaboration between the Ukrainian government and WPP, the largest advertising firm in the world."
 
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