Rumored Violations

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IrishLax

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I think you are wrong on this, Lax, and the vehemence you've presented is confusing to me(not that you owe me, or anyone else, an explanation for it). I think the University could have handled it better, but I don't think that they have come even close to botching it. No one was suspended, and Jack Swarbrick and Father Jenkins made it CLEAR that there have only been allegations, so far.

My vehemence stems from the fact that we're drawing so much attention to a ho-hum situation from our own volition... and talking about vacating wins for absolutely no reason. And searching back years to bust people.

Worst of all, is that Vandy just had two basketball players dismissed for academics. FSU just had a WR dismissed. Neither of those get a peep on Sports Center. But we trot out our school president with no answers and make it a big deal... and its open season with misinformation towards our commits... and it's a PR disaster that could've been easily avoided.
 

GoIrish41

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At work and couldn't see the SC update. Good news? Bad News? Indifferent news? Should I be so angry I should become unnecessarily mean to the inmates? Or so happy I should randomly high five one?

They reported what we knew yesterday. Nothing new. Nothing about the rumors of players being cleared.
 

Henges24

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At work and couldn't see the SC update. Good news? Bad News? Indifferent news? Should I be so angry I should become unnecessarily mean to the inmates? Or so happy I should randomly high five one?

It was nothing. Just video of BKs press conference yesterday.
 

IrishLax

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BTW, I appreciate the viewpoint of everyone who disagrees with me, I'm most riled up about how the incompetence of our school's leadership is turning small potatoes into a national scandal. Get your shit together.
 

Huntr

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ND applauded for handling of academic fraud investigation.



On the flip side, NBC Sports being their usual shitty broadcast partner selves. Check the pic accompanying a story on this investigation. Gee, thanks, buddy.

ETA: I take that back. They're not usually shitty on the TV side. But, this is pretty weak.
 
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D) No one knows what is going on.

The Much Ado About Nothing essay was great, particularly alluding to the present administration's inclination to inflict pain through self flagellation. Practicing mortification of the flesh, just before the start of football season, in front of the entire nation, is not such a good idea!
 

irishfan

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AP Top 25 is released today. Wonder when the ballots were due and if this impacts our initial ranking?
 

IrishLax

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ginman

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I'm gonna run counter my brothers on this site for a second...

I don't think this girl deserves anonymity, I think she completely deserves to be outed, and the only thing I don't like is the timing.

Once again... THIS IS WHY YOU GET ALL YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW BEFORE SUSPENDING ANYONE OR HAVING PRESS CONFERENCES.

Once you say "we've got a probe and investigation and might be vacating wins" then all of the media will come out and dig dig dig dig... just fucking terrible handling.

While I agree with you on most of your points about this incident being mishandled by the University, I don't think that this girl should be outed. The players names should not have been released and they should not have been kept out of practice, neither should her name be released. I think it just adds to the cluster F and potentially puts her in jeopardy. Again, goes to your point that this should have been better handled by ND before they turned this into a circus.
 

Grahambo

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Good read.

I just don't think it's that big a P.R. deal. And I don't think ND intended on the press conference until the NCAA leaked it to Feldman and Co. Once ND took control, all the bullshit Tweets stopped from the big bad media.

I do have a working theory though that I can share via PM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Good read.

I just don't think it's that big a P.R. deal. And I don't think ND intended on the press conference until the NCAA leaked it to Feldman and Co. Once ND took control, all the bullshit Tweets stopped from the big bad media.

I do have a working theory though that I can share via PM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm interested in hearing your theory.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Reps to you and to ITP as always!

I have tried not to speculate, but I have expressed a couple of opinions based upon a certain scenario being true. We all know one thing, this whole situation is much too fluid to have enough of a handle on to render verdicts of any merit.

I am getting the feeling that this whole thing was internally promoted by that 10 to 15 percent of the admin and faculty that really resent football, and consider it an intrusion on their fantasy of a Midwest Ivy League academic mecca.

I am also getting that ND tried to in good conscience report this in the way (to the NCAA) that would eliminate any possibility of the dreaded lack of institutional control. Forget whether ND were hysterics in their attempts. The people at the NCAA, especially those who leaked this information, had no fucking scruples. Just like the reporters that printed unverifiable information, they assumed this was a dirty program trying to get ahead of a cluster-fuck, instead of a bunch of hysterics mangling a small everyday thing, like most on this site would begin to bet will be the case finally when the details are out.
 
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koonja

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If they're reinstated, win the first two games, and this is all forgotten. there will be 100 CFB story lines by then, and it all comes down to JUST WIN BABY!
 

IrishLax

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LAX, what do you think should have been done in this case? Investigate just current players? Investigate no one? Curious as to how you think it could have been handled.

I think we strongly should've considered the merits of hunting back years and years, most towards kids who have already graduated. I think I would've put a statute of limitations on everything such that I wouldn't have considered anything that happened outside of this year. What are you gonna do? Pull diplomas off walls because you retroactively determine some assignments weren't original work? Seems pretty over the top and stupid.

Next, I never ever would've floated the idea of vacating wins unless I was sure legitimate NCAA violations had occurred where we knowingly played ineligible players. If that wasn't the case, I would under no circumstances be considering vacating anything. I think this is the single biggest mistake the admin is making.

Finally, I would not have removed anyone from the team or made any moves until the investigation was complete and my findings were final, at which point I would've simply issued a press release stating "the following players ... for academic misconduct." The end. Much like the two Vandy basketball players and FSU WR that got booted for academics this past weekend and there is no story on, people would've cared for a couple days and then just moved on business as usual.
 

Irish YJ

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I just wish they would have released a statement saying there was an investigation, not talking about specific players, not talking about vacating wins. They probably had to pull them from practice because story, and their names would have been eventually reported by a rag, or board....

Regardless, if cleared, this story will die quickly... nobody wants to talk about ND being cleared of wrong doing. I am happy they tried to get in front of it, just not happy how they did it.
 

Crazy Balki

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So...Is anyone else waiting for Melinda Hellenberger to come out with her follow up BS piece for this incident?

Why I Won't Be Humping For Old Notre Dame
 

IrishLax

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I just wish they would have released a statement saying there was an investigation, not talking about specific players, not talking about vacating wins. They probably had to pull them from practice because story, and their names would have been eventually reported by a rag, or board....

Regardless, if cleared, this story will die quickly... nobody wants to talk about ND being cleared of wrong doing. I am happy they tried to get in front of it, just not happy how they did it.

Exactly. It's like that scene from House of Cards where Francis makes a fool of himself on TV debating the teacher's union guy and Claire goes "I'm fine with you improvising... just wish you had done it better."

I don't have a problem with ND trying to address cheating, I have a problem with how they've executed everything from the onset.
 

BobbyMac

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While I agree with Lax about it could have been handled better as far as PR goes... meaning the OUTCOME could have been better IF the findings from the investigation were to be much less than feared. Would a national PR / Law firm have handled this in a way that less info would have been disseminated while the potential for leaks been minimized? Yes...

Did Father Jenkins and J. Swarbrick handle the press conference as well as it could have been? No. I thought they looked rushed, ill-prepared and on one instance evasive... (when Swarbrick spoke about the difference between cheating and eligibility)

BUT BUT BUT

It's hard to fault 100% disclosure and transparency... especially from an institution that preaches it everyday. Yes, the average person can be TOO honest in handling adverse situations.... anything related to the Catholic Church cannot. There's some history with that.


Lastly... People get suspended with pay all the time in the real world pending investigations. This is what has happened to the 4 players. Welcome to the real world... just sucks that they are affiliated with the most visible icon of the sport. The same light would have been shed on the Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers and Duke basketball.

.
 

Booslum31

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I just read the last three pages and really didn't get to feel any more comfortable that two (possibly three) of them are coming back. Are we still in the dark on this?
 
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kmoose

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I think we strongly should've considered the merits of hunting back years and years, most towards kids who have already graduated. I think I would've put a statute of limitations on everything such that I wouldn't have considered anything that happened outside of this year. What are you gonna do? Pull diplomas off walls because you retroactively determine some assignments weren't original work? Seems pretty over the top and stupid.

On the flip side... what are you going to do, give diplomas to guys that might have cheated their way through their freshman year? What message does that send to the rest of the students? It's ok to cheat, as long as you don't get caught until you have almost graduated?

I recall Father Jenkins, or maybe Jack Swarbrick, saying that they would not speculate on how far back the cheating went, because they would let the information uncovered by the investigation determine that. I took that to mean that they were not going to target past years, but would look into them as information surfaced during the investigation.
 

Huntr

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AP Top 25 is released today. Wonder when the ballots were due and if this impacts our initial ranking?


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>When the AP poll is announced in less than an hour <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>'s ranking will not be affected by academic probe. Votes were in long before.</p>— Eric Hansen (@EHansenNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/EHansenNDI/statuses/501052988862246913">August 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irishman77

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Sorry for the dumb question but did the girl turn herself in or did someone blow the whistle?
 

IrishLax

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On the flip side... what are you going to do, give diplomas to guys that might have cheated their way through their freshman year? What message does that send to the rest of the students? It's ok to cheat, as long as you don't get caught until you have almost graduated?

I recall Father Jenkins, or maybe Jack Swarbrick, saying that they would not speculate on how far back the cheating went, because they would let the information uncovered by the investigation determine that. I took that to mean that they were not going to target past years, but would look into them as information surfaced during the investigation.

It's a very fair point, but my counter is pretty simplistic.

All crimes have a statute of limitations. For some, its indefinite because timing/circumstances don't matter. For others, it's a small window because it does matter.

If you shine the black light on a motel room, you're going to see the stains. Somewhere between 80% and 98% of students cheat in college. So if you apply this kind of scorched earth methodology to any school in the country, all of a sudden no one would have degrees? It's not pragmatic.

To me, if it's a case of unoriginal assignments being turned in and trying to go back and recalculate GPA or decide credits according to the quantity of assignments that may be "Fs" that's too much. That's way, way too much. If you didn't catch it then, too much time has passed. And on top of that... if you HAD caught it then, a player probably takes a "zero" on the assignment and then corrects their behavior... it's just a really messed up thing to try and retroactively address something like this.

If it was, however, a case of academic "murder" versus "simple assault"... i.e. someone stole research for a Ph.D. defense or something... then I'd fully approve of retroactively stripping degrees. I just don't think the level of "fraud" in this case warrants this kind of witch hunt. But that's just personal opinion.
 

Irish YJ

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Sorry for the dumb question but did the girl turn herself in or did someone blow the whistle?

we've heard both that DD screwed up and sent an email to the wrong person incriminating him and the girl, and heard the girl blew. I don't think anyone has confirmed one way or another. If so one knows, please PM me :)
 

pkt77242

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we've heard both that DD screwed up and sent an email to the wrong person incriminating him and the girl, and heard the girl blew. I don't think anyone has confirmed one way or another. If so one knows, please PM me :)

To be fair, either way the girl blew.
 
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