Rumored Violations

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CarrollVermin

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koonja said:
Why .... NEXT week? It's fucking Tuesday. Hold the hearings.
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I would not be surprised if they were held this week, honestly. But at this point, I would not hold my breath. No one will know when they are scheduled...that is the difficult part in all of this. Yes, if the committee has been assembled, you should get it done sooner than later.
 
Circa

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Great to hear there is at least some word from coach about this!
 
wizards8507

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NDdomer2 said:
ok so i know there were a few folks here who were big on the "they shouldnt be treated different than other students" idea (can't remember who through all this clutter so i apologize). Now we are told they had to form some committee that has never been done before. How is that treating them like other students?

I find it hard to believe that no other time in the history of ND has there been a group of kids who were caught plagiarizing or cheating.

So my question to that group who was all for student equality is; If ND is not going to hear this case equal to a regular student why is it not fair for fans, players, coaches, etc. to demand a process different than regular students? Is it ok they are being treated different as long as it appears ND is being more strict with the athletes?

IMO they are given an extra priveledge that regular students are not so they should be treated differently (more strict), but that also comes with this should have been expedited.

But I see the equal is equal group has nothign to say as long as it appears they aren't getting positive preferential treatment. Can't have it only one way IMO.
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BK is wrong. This committee isn't some first-time thing, it's the standard process. The only thing "unprecedented" that I've seen so far is how long it has taken. The "what" is completely expected, it's the "when" that's a problem.

Maybe BK meant that this is the first time a committee has been formed in his tenure as coach for one of his players. Golson admitted he cheated so he wouldn't have had a hearing, and DaVaris' last suspension was due to poor grades, not academic dishonesty.
 
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If all 5 are announced guilty and the punishment is the loss of eligibility for the 2014, will you all still think this was handled poorly?

Because that's what I think is pretty obviously happening, and I've been saying it since August.

You all are STILL believing in Santa Claus.
 
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koonja

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JTLA said:
If all 5 are announced guilty and the punishment is the loss of eligibility for the 2014, will you all still think this was handled poorly?

Because that's what I think is pretty obviously happening, and I've been saying it since August.

You all are STILL believing in Santa Claus.
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Yes. Investigation ended in late August. If they're guilty, hold the hearings ASAP, kick them out, and move on.

It'd actually be bigger BS on ND's part if that's the case at this point. In that scenario, ND made the kids go through half of a semester that will likely be erased for them.
 
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koonja

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Can't embed them all, but Phillip Daniels has gone on full blast. Don't blame him.
 
ACamp1900

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Without seeing the tweets I'm assuming he's wanting to force ND's hand... as a father I can't say I blame him
 
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He has the right, but he should be calling out the Provost, not ND. If you want to be constructive, get on the phone with the University's highest academic officer, not on Twitter. Shameful on his part.
 
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koonja

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I think it's very hard to blame him. His kid's missed enough of his senior year if he thinks he's innocent, which clearly the whole Daniels party does.

I give him credit for holding back this far. It's time for ND to feel it, IMO. Go Daniels.
 
IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>He should be. If he leave I understand! “<a href="https://twitter.com/korybienz">@korybienz</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/PhillipDaniels">@PhillipDaniels</a> I think you can sense BK's irritation with the "process" as well.”</p>— Phillip Daniels (@PhillipDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhillipDaniels/status/514480110221537280">September 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
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IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Maybe we need to get <a href="https://twitter.com/stephenasmith">@stephenasmith</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/FirstTakeESPN">@FirstTakeESPN</a> to bring attention to this! These young men should not be put on the back burner!</p>— Phillip Daniels (@PhillipDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhillipDaniels/status/514482450638974976">September 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
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IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Guys don't get me wrong, I think the world of ND or I wouldn't have let my son go there. But this whole thing from start/finish handled bad!</p>— Phillip Daniels (@PhillipDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhillipDaniels/status/514490103818104832">September 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
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kmoose

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NDdomer2 said:
ok so i know there were a few folks here who were big on the "they shouldnt be treated different than other students" idea (can't remember who through all this clutter so i apologize). Now we are told they had to form some committee that has never been done before. How is that treating them like other students?
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I got the impression, listening to the PC, that Kelly was indicating that it was the first time, for the football team, that a committee of this type had been formed.
 
ACamp1900

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Of those three tweets... I agree with him. To the point of going to the Provost, I agree there as well...
 
MPClinton22

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I have no problem with him bringing attention to the fact that this investigation is taking a ridiculously long time, but using FSU and Florida as examples of how you should handle matters of academics/integrity/honesty is laughable.
 
ACamp1900

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MPClinton22 said:
I have no problem with him bringing attention to the fact that this investigation is taking a ridiculously long time, but using FSU and Florida as examples of how you should handle matters of academics/integrity/honesty is laughable.
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He did what??? lol
 
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Bogtrotter07

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See, this is my point . . .

I shouldn't really say it, but the attitude I am familiar with, and have openly railed against is that "we" are here to serve "them." You could make it a Catholic issue if you want. I don't care to. You could make it an administration versus student issue, which it is. And you could probably find a lot more layers in there.

But the simple fact is about 90% set (confirmed) that the students did something that some professors and members of that administration did not want them to do. That doesn't mean that they did anything academically dishonest!

I know a kid who took an on-line class, that when it was formed, the instructor announced via syllabus that the kids could use the online notes or study guides when taking the exam. The only major rule was that they needed to take it in the testing center alone. Well a lot of the students were friends of the student assistants in the testing center, so it became a big party for that group.

The instructor got wise when there was no bell shape to the curve. So he change the rules. He may have even forgot to mention that study notes were out, with the other changes. This kid went in and took the test early, as was entirely appropriate, but hadn't even gotten the email yet. He got an email from the professor, asking whether he had used his study notes or not.

The long and the short is that I made a few calls, and I still had a hard time with the provost. Finally the thing got walked to a letter grade down (B) and no indication of academic dishonesty. But that needle-dicked instructor wasn't going to back off of the whole accusation.

Why? If it was shown to be unfounded, he had about zero percent chance of being back the next semester. I am sure the situation is better at ND, but at a lot of august four year institutions, tenure all but has been eradicated.

Tenure was instituted to insure academic freedom. It fell victim to cost cutting. So at any institution I have been involved with there are three germane outcomes, guilty, not guilty, or unfounded.

If accusations come off as unfounded that accuser might as well hang it up. So much for an adversarial relationship between anyone at a "school."

To me the kind of zero sum gamesmanship that this type of administration (my example) smacks of is exactly what school should not be about. Because of the lessons it teaches. Service is what administration should provide. Just like students upon graduation should provide service. I bided my time when so many argued for the "administration," on this one.

Now after going over all Kelly has said, along with Jenkins and Swarbrick, this think waited for weeks for a committee to be formed. That is absolute crap.
 
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