Rioting in St Louis

[wizards8507]

When people have to choice but to live in certain places because they cannot aford to live anywhere else that is segregation.

That's NOT segregation because economic status is not something that the individual is powerless to change. An individual who is poor today may not be poor tomorrow, and he has a path out of poverty through a number of channels; education, hard work, or (in some cases) blind luck. For your segregation argument to stick, folks would need to be trapped in their situation. My father's path out of poverty was hard work (military service and factory labor), while my father-in-law got out of the German ghettos of Philadelphia via education (MBA and a job as an insurance executive).

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's NOT segregation because economic status is not something that the individual is powerless to change. An individual who is poor today may not be poor tomorrow, and he has a path out of poverty through a number of channels; education, hard work, or (in some cases) blind luck. For your segregation argument to stick, folks would need to be trapped in their situation. My father's path out of poverty was hard work (military service and factory labor), while my father-in-law got out of the German ghettos of Philadelphia via education (MBA and a job as an insurance executive).

Agree. But for some, they don't understand hard work, getting an education, changing their situation, being responsible as an individual is their way out of their situation. If this country "had any character" it would stop spoon feeding those less fortunate and explain to them that they have to be willing to do those things necessary in order to break that cycle. And that cycle will never be broken as long as there are those who believe equal means taking from those who "have" and giving to those who "have not." Systems have been in place for well over 50 years and sadly the situation has not gotten any better.

I would suggest that GoIrish41 take it up with the President. The income for minorities has decreased under our current President. And with his recent EO on immigration, it will weaken even more for African Americans. History has shown us that the last two waves of amnesty has devestated the African American communities when it came to income and employment.

 

[Irish#1]

NJNP..........I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this please.

Originally Posted by FLDomer View Post
Ben Watson from the Saints posted this on his FB page and I found it to be very well said and powerful. Sorry if it's already been posted.

"At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:

I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing.

I'M ENCOURAGED, because ultimately the problem is not a SKIN problem, it is a SIN problem. SIN is the reason we rebel against authority. SIN is the reason we abuse our authority. SIN is the reason we are racist, prejudiced and lie to cover for our own. SIN is the reason we riot, loot and burn. BUT I'M ENCOURAGED because God has provided a solution for sin through the his son Jesus and with it, a transformed heart and mind. One that's capable of looking past the outward and seeing what's truly important in every human being. The cure for the Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner tragedies is not education or exposure. It's the Gospel. So, finally, I'M ENCOURAGED because the Gospel gives mankind hope."

 

[wizards8507]

NJNP..........I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this please.

Originally Posted by FLDomer View Post
Ben Watson from the Saints posted this on his FB page and I found it to be very well said and powerful. Sorry if it's already been posted.

Wow, end thread. Seriously, goosebumps.

 

[T Town Tommy]

When people have to choice but to live in certain places because they cannot aford to live anywhere else that is segregation. That happens to black folks more than anyone else so the point was and remains that racial and economic segregate n are two sides of the same coin in many instances. The larger point of my post was that this would be a good place to begin a discussion about solutins to this festerng problem in this country. That is if this country has the character and will to live up to its boldly stated ideal that all men are created equal.

Here is some good information as to why some people make it and some people struggle. It's not easy for those born in poverty to rise above it and become part of the middle class. But it is doable.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Re...920 pathways middle class sawhill winship.pdf

 

[Cackalacky]

Ben Watson is another family friend I had the pleasure of watching play high school football. Top shelf dude. Real glad I read that.

 

[pkt77242]

Here is some good information as to why some people make it and some people struggle. It's not easy for those born in poverty to rise above it and become part of the middle class. But it is doable.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Re...920 pathways middle class sawhill winship.pdf

I agree that it is doable but it is becoming more difficult.

Thirteen Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education | Brookings Institution

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Allen West: President Obama 'cherry|picks' his causes for social justice, sees political opportunity in Ferguson | OTR Interviews | On the Record | Fox Newshttp://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...causes-social-justice-sees-political-opportun

So if the Ferguson police officer was black this would obviously be a non-issue b/c as Colonel West suggests, any crime that is NOT white on black gets minimal coverage. Yet the stats show the truth. I wonder if Attorney General Holder has ever addressed Pres Obama's home city and it's out of control black-on-black homicide rate?

 

[T Town Tommy]

I agree that it is doable but it is becoming more difficult.

Thirteen Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education | Brookings Institution

I agree. It appears most way more qualified than I am on the subject believe that having a strong family foundation is the real first key. Even in poverty stricken families, while the percentage of those who enter the middle class by age 40 is still significantly lower, it is doable with the proper guiadance through the life cycles model. A lot of other factors as well that opened my eyes to the challenges facing those less fortunate. Education was the key for me - as well as a strong family unit - and those two together helped allow me to break that cycle. We have a long way to go in our quest to end poverty, but the hope of a better day should motivate all of us.

 

[pkt77242]

I agree. It appears most way more qualified than I am on the subject believe that having a strong family foundation is the real first key. Even in poverty stricken families, while the percentage of those who enter the middle class by age 40 is still significantly lower, it is doable with the proper guiadance through the life cycles model. A lot of other factors as well that opened my eyes to the challenges facing those less fortunate. Education was the key for me - as well as a strong family unit - and that education allowed me to break that cycle. We have a long way to go in our quest to end poverty, but the hope of a better day should motivate all of us.

I agree. Education and family support greatly help.

 

[GoIrish41]

Here is some good information as to why some people make it and some people struggle. It's not easy for those born in poverty to rise above it and become part of the middle class. But it is doable.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Re...920 pathways middle class sawhill winship.pdf

Will not open on my phone. Here is my thought ... there is anecdotal information that suggests that climbing out of poverty CAN and does happen. No doubt. There is also overwhelming evidence that the current system and culture are not workinf for most of 15% of the population. Why focus so heavily on the exceptions when what is most prevalent is an inability to break into the middle class over entire generations. These people do not want to be poor and you are smart enough to know that there are many who work hard and obey the law and still live lives of despair. They cannot all just pull themselves up because there are only so many positions to move up to.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Will not open on my phone. Here is my thought ... there is anecdotal information that suggests that climbing out of poverty CAN and does happen. No doubt. There is also overwhelming evidence that the current system and culture are not workinf for most of 15% of the population. Why focus so heavily on the exceptions when what is most prevalent is an inability to break into the middle class over entire generations. These people do not want to be poor and you are smart enough to know that there are many who work hard and obey the law and still live lives of despair. They cannot all just pull themselves up because there are only so many positions to move up to.

But the data does show that, while not easy, it is doable. Why are some able to and others not? Both my link and the link by pkt provides some good answers. The real question should be what can be done to ensure those at or below the poverty line have the opportunity to move up. The data suggests that strong family values, emphasis on education at the earliest ages, continued education through the middle school years, and ending with a HS diploma and 2.5 GPA with no arrest records and/or children out of wedlock provide the best opportunity.

Those that make it that far can either enter the work force and take 25 or so years to enter the middle class or continue their education and reach middle class much faster - both through college degrees and marrying like-educated partners. And one thing interesting in ptk's link is the fact that the cost of attending college for those at or below the poverty line has actually not risen.

There is hope. There are paths. But it does start with individuals being responsible and educated enough to realize that their actions now will severly limit their children's success at breaking that cycle later.

 

[GoIrish41]

But the data does show that, while not easy, it is doable. Why are some able to and others not? Both my link and the link by pkt provides some good answers. The real question should be what can be done to ensure those at or below the poverty line have the opportunity to move up. The data suggests that strong family values, emphasis on education at the earliest ages, continued education through the middle school years, and ending with a HS diploma and 2.5 GPA with no arrest records and/or children out of wedlock provide the best opportunity.

Those that make it that far can either enter the work force and take 25 or so years to enter the middle class or continue their education and reach middle class much faster - both through college degrees and marrying like-educated partners. And one thing interesting in ptk's link is the fact that the cost of attending college for those at or below the poverty line has actually not risen.

There is hope. There are paths. But it does start with individuals being responsible and educated enough to realize that their actions now will severly limit their children's success at breaking that cycle later.

Lets say that all of the black community takes your advice and they all get their kids educated. Those kids go to college and graduate. Where are they all going to find the jobs that will put them in the middle class and break the cycle? There are not enough such jobs to go around as it is. Who will be hired first when this plays out? He folks who have been historically. Discriminated agains? Doubt it. There is a reason that it is a systemic problem in the country and it is not because a whole race of people are too lazy or stupid to succeed. Many of them believed the same stuff you are saying until life taught them differently.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Lets say that all of the black community takes your advice and they all get their kids educated. Those kids go to college and graduate. Where are they all going to find the jobs that will put them in the middle class and break the cycle. There are not enough such jobs to go around as it is. Who will be hired first when this plays out? There is a reason that it is a systemic problem in the country and it is not because a whole race of people are too lazy to succeed. Many of them believed the same stuff you are saying until life taught them differently.

There is such a lack of qualified individuals in such things as technical fields, medicine, research, even skilled labor jobs that pay high wages today that finding a job would be fairly easy to those qualified. It really is all about education and a strong family foundation. Graduating high school and making decisions about what to further one's education in to best succeed in the job market later would seem to be something that could easily be researched and sound decisions made. There are plenty enough resources out there to assist them in making their decisions.

Didn't say anything about any race succeeding, being lazy, etc. My OP's on the subject dealt with socioeconomic status - primarily those at or below the poverty line and why it appears they struggle to move up. The data does offer opinions as to why certain races lag behind others in this quest. Maybe when you can open the links it will explain things better than I can.

 

[phgreek]

Language is constantly evolving and how words are used is what gives them meaning. Thug is a clean way to say nigger.

first of all, w/o the context of the person using the word, you have no basis for assuming they are using the word in the "evovlved", pop-culture, or otherwise coopted manner...

Never mind the very purpose of definitions of words in communication...

The evolution of which you speak...well...I find it purposeful that words are arbitrarily chosen as "offensive" outside their definition, and I believe its a mechanism to stifle legitimate criticism...

...read that as me saying I don't think anyone uttering the word thug chose to make thug = nigger...I think people being called a thug chose to coopt the word as such.

Thug will always remain to me a term I use irrespective of race...in fact I just used "Thug" recently. Kids were drag racing past my home so I ran them down...during the "discussion" that ensued...Thug was among the words I used in response to one of them making threats and approaching me aggressively...the kid did not appear to be a person of color...but it hadn't occurred to me I was using "Thug" wrong, and when his dad came to pick up his keys, he called him a thug too...laughed my ass off...a Thug is a Thug...

 

[pkt77242]

An interesting article on race. People might not agree with all of it but some of it is based on areas that have been heavily researched, while other parts are more opinion based.

The new threat: 'Racism without racists' - CNN.com

 

[ickythump1225]

Lets say that all of the black community takes your advice and they all get their kids educated. Those kids go to college and graduate. Where are they all going to find the jobs that will put them in the middle class and break the cycle? There are not enough such jobs to go around as it is. Who will be hired first when this plays out? He folks who have been historically. Discriminated agains? Doubt it. There is a reason that it is a systemic problem in the country and it is not because a whole race of people are too lazy or stupid to succeed. Many of them believed the same stuff you are saying until life taught them differently.

Those who get degrees like African-American Studies, sociology, Art History, Gender Studies, etc. will have a hard time finding jobs but this is true across all demographics. Kids, of any color, who get STEM based degrees or Business degrees, and have some semblance of a life plan and possess a strong work ethic will eventually find their way in life. Really college degrees are overrated anyway in terms of actual usefulness, they are just keys that open more doors in life. A strong work ethic, good personal drive, and being smart with your opportunities and finances are a strong base for success (however you define it) in life.

Those who look at life from the perspective of "well I'm f**ked in life because of *insert reason*" usually find their prophecy fulfilled. If you sit around and blame others and excuse make you probably won't get far in life but that is true for anyone. Well meaning liberals and their social programs send the message to women, blacks, homosexuals, etc. that "you are too weak to make it on your own. If you are having a bad life it because of straight white men or racists/sexists/homophobes. You are not responsible for your life, let us take care of you." That is crippling and I believe the black communities across America are feeling the effects of government dependence. Not to mention so called "black leaders" like those snakes Sharpton and Jesse Jackson sell their own people out for publicity and money. Blacks were used and abused during slavery but they are no less used by those at the top today for political gains and free publicity.

People like Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman aren't the real enemies of blacks in America, but it is useful for the media and the politicians for them to think so that is why you see such an inordinate amount of coverage over incidents like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. Politician after politician gets elected on basis of promises to fight poverty, crime, and unemployment (all of which disproportionately affect black communities) and then get into office and support policies that screw over the people that elected them. Then they send out their useful idiots like Shaprton and Jackson to spin fairy tales to keep the public distracted. Democrats get reliable 90% of the black vote, not because their policies actually help them, but because they've so successfully driven home the narrative of the "WASP country club Republicans that hates blacks and women" (don't get me wrong I'm not a Republican by any stretch nor do I advocate for the GOP, the Republicans would do this same thing if they could, they just can't).

Also many black families are heavily dependent on government assistance and will vote for the party that is associated with bigger government. That is why government dependence is such a powerful drug and so dangerous. If the government can get most of the population dependent on them in one form or another that is a powerful ace up the sleeve to keep the status quo and make sure nothing changes too drastically. People will always vote in their self interest and far too many Americans suckle from the teat of the government for any candidates with any real solutions for change to gain serious traction. This isn't a black or white problem or even an American problem, this is an inherent flaw in democracy and why it is a very bad form of governance.

 

[illmatic630]

Allen West: President Obama 'cherry|picks' his causes for social justice, sees political opportunity in Ferguson | OTR Interviews | On the Record | Fox Newshttp://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...causes-social-justice-sees-political-opportun

So if the Ferguson police officer was black this would obviously be a non-issue b/c as Colonel West suggests, any crime that is NOT white on black gets minimal coverage. Yet the stats show the truth. I wonder if Attorney General Holder has ever addressed Pres Obama's home city and it's out of control black-on-black homicide rate?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eric-holder-chicago-gun-violence-atf-agents

 

[illmatic630]

But by all accounts, the fatal shots weren't fired when the threat was at its greatest. He (Wilson) said once he got out his car he started to chase after him and the fatal shot was from 10-15 feet...That's all I'm saying. What happened in the car is one thing, but what happened afterward is another. That's from a threat perspective.

This is pretty much on the spot. Once Mike Brown is shot and runs away, that situation is over. What happened afterwards when Wilson chased him is the most important part.

If somebody assaults you, then runs away, are you really going to chase him, kill him, then say he was a threat to you when he just ran away?

another thing i wanted to add: just because no bullets were found in mike browns back, doesn't mean he wasn't shot at while he had his back turned to wilson.

 

[illmatic630]

Here are some links to good information and reads i found interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/25/us/evidence-released-in-michael-brown-case.html

What do the newly released witness statements tell us about the Michael Brown shooting? | PBS NewsHour

Why Don't Black People Protest 'Black-on-Black Violence'? - The Atlantic

Barack Obama, Ferguson, and the Evidence of Things Unsaid - The Atlantic

Ferguson, Hope, & Empathy | JEFFBETHKE.COM

Ferguson’s Trial - Sarah Kendzior - POLITICO Magazine

St. Louis County Police Officer Charged « CBS St. Louis

Unorthodox police procedures emerge in grand jury documents - The Washington Post

Bob McCulloch’s pathetic prosecution of Darren Wilson - The Washington Post

 

[illmatic630]

double post.

 

[illmatic630]

Those who get degrees like African-American Studies, sociology, Art History, Gender Studies, etc. will have a hard time finding jobs but this is true across all demographics. Kids, of any color, who get STEM based degrees or Business degrees, and have some semblance of a life plan and possess a strong work ethic will eventually find their way in life. Really college degrees are overrated anyway in terms of actual usefulness, they are just keys that open more doors in life. A strong work ethic, good personal drive, and being smart with your opportunities and finances are a strong base for success (however you define it) in life.

Those who look at life from the perspective of "well I'm f**ked in life because of *insert reason*" usually find their prophecy fulfilled. If you sit around and blame others and excuse make you probably won't get far in life but that is true for anyone. Well meaning liberals and their social programs send the message to women, blacks, homosexuals, etc. that "you are too weak to make it on your own. If you are having a bad life it because of straight white men or racists/sexists/homophobes. You are not responsible for your life, let us take care of you." That is crippling and I believe the black communities across America are feeling the effects of government dependence. Not to mention so called "black leaders" like those snakes Sharpton and Jesse Jackson sell their own people out for publicity and money. Blacks were used and abused during slavery but they are no less used by those at the top today for political gains and free publicity.

People like Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman aren't the real enemies of blacks in America, but it is useful for the media and the politicians for them to think so that is why you see such an inordinate amount of coverage over incidents like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. Politician after politician gets elected on basis of promises to fight poverty, crime, and unemployment (all of which disproportionately affect black communities) and then get into office and support policies that screw over the people that elected them. Then they send out their useful idiots like Shaprton and Jackson to spin fairy tales to keep the public distracted. Democrats get reliable 90% of the black vote, not because their policies actually help them, but because they've so successfully driven home the narrative of the "WASP country club Republicans that hates blacks and women" (don't get me wrong I'm not a Republican by any stretch nor do I advocate for the GOP, the Republicans would do this same thing if they could, they just can't).

1. Also many black families are heavily dependent on government assistance and will vote for the party that is associated with bigger government. That is why government dependence is such a powerful drug and so dangerous. If the government can get most of the population dependent on them in one form or another that is a powerful ace up the sleeve to keep the status quo and make sure nothing changes too drastically. People will always vote in their self interest and far too many Americans suckle from the teat of the government for any candidates with any real solutions for change to gain serious traction. This isn't a black or white problem or even an American problem, this is an inherent flaw in democracy and why it is a very bad form of governance.

1. are white families not dependant on government assistance?

2. I'm sorry but what?! Please explain this.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Eric Holder takes action to fight Chicago gun violence | MSNBC

Perfect link, reminded me of the Stewart bit on Fox News constantly asking why Sharpton and co. weren't doing anything about the violence in Chicago.

You see, you being ignorant of those attempts doesn’t mean the issue itself is being ignored, in the same way that when it snows where you live doesn’t mean the world isn’t getting hotter.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Those who get degrees like African-American Studies, sociology, Art History, Gender Studies, etc. will have a hard time finding jobs but this is true across all demographics. Kids, of any color, who get STEM based degrees or Business degrees, and have some semblance of a life plan and possess a strong work ethic will eventually find their way in life. Really college degrees are overrated anyway in terms of actual usefulness, they are just keys that open more doors in life. A strong work ethic, good personal drive, and being smart with your opportunities and finances are a strong base for success (however you define it) in life.

Those who look at life from the perspective of "well I'm f**ked in life because of *insert reason*" usually find their prophecy fulfilled. If you sit around and blame others and excuse make you probably won't get far in life but that is true for anyone. Well meaning liberals and their social programs send the message to women, blacks, homosexuals, etc. that "you are too weak to make it on your own. If you are having a bad life it because of straight white men or racists/sexists/homophobes. You are not responsible for your life, let us take care of you." That is crippling and I believe the black communities across America are feeling the effects of government dependence. Not to mention so called "black leaders" like those snakes Sharpton and Jesse Jackson sell their own people out for publicity and money. Blacks were used and abused during slavery but they are no less used by those at the top today for political gains and free publicity.

People like Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman aren't the real enemies of blacks in America, but it is useful for the media and the politicians for them to think so that is why you see such an inordinate amount of coverage over incidents like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. Politician after politician gets elected on basis of promises to fight poverty, crime, and unemployment (all of which disproportionately affect black communities) and then get into office and support policies that screw over the people that elected them. Then they send out their useful idiots like Shaprton and Jackson to spin fairy tales to keep the public distracted. Democrats get reliable 90% of the black vote, not because their policies actually help them, but because they've so successfully driven home the narrative of the "WASP country club Republicans that hates blacks and women" (don't get me wrong I'm not a Republican by any stretch nor do I advocate for the GOP, the Republicans would do this same thing if they could, they just can't).

Also many black families are heavily dependent on government assistance and will vote for the party that is associated with bigger government. That is why government dependence is such a powerful drug and so dangerous. If the government can get most of the population dependent on them in one form or another that is a powerful ace up the sleeve to keep the status quo and make sure nothing changes too drastically. People will always vote in their self interest and far too many Americans suckle from the teat of the government for any candidates with any real solutions for change to gain serious traction. This isn't a black or white problem or even an American problem, this is an inherent flaw in democracy and why it is a very bad form of governance.

So, to be perfectly honest, I don't understand what you're saying here. I know it's a bit of an tangent, but perhaps it would help me if you unpacked your statement that "Well meaning liberals and their social programs send the message to ...homosexuals, etc. that "you are too weak to make it on your own. If you are having a bad life it because of straight white men or... homophobes. You are not responsible for your life, let us take care of you."

I'm narrowing this down to the gays because I can't even conceive of what you might be talking about in that case. If you can explain what govt programs make gays weak and how, I might understand your point about blacks and women better too.

 

[Irish YJ]

Language is constantly evolving and how words are used is what gives them meaning. Thug is a clean way to say nigger.

Language and words may evolve for some, but for many, they mean what the dictionary defined them as. I'm in my 40s, grew up in an Italian neighborhood, and a few blocks down the road from the projects. Thug has never meant anything but what it is defined as. Do I need to stop using the word thug because you think I mean something different.

To your point about people pulling out the "I have black friends" card. I have black friends, Indian friends, Muslim friends, Puerto Rican friends, Cuban friends, German friends, gay friends, etc.. I also volunteer at the refuge center and work with about every background you can imagine. Do I pretend to understand all of their plights or identify with their struggles? No, I'm just their friend. Is that fake of me, or bad of me to say that I have these friends?

It sounds as though you're making assumptions and stereotyping a lot of people on this board. Just like I don't know everyone's situations, you don't either. I know there is still prejudice out there. I see it often with my own eyes, and on both sides. It's sad. But there are also people who don't care about color, and define individuals by their behavior.

 

[Cackalacky]

Lmao. Sorry. #riot #forthelulz

 

[Irish#1]

This is pretty much on the spot. Once Mike Brown is shot and runs away, that situation is over. What happened afterwards when Wilson chased him is the most important part.

If somebody assaults you, then runs away, are you really going to chase him, kill him, then say he was a threat to you when he just ran away?

another thing i wanted to add: just because no bullets were found in mike browns back, doesn't mean he wasn't shot at while he had his back turned to wilson.

No, I'm probably not going to, but there's one very key and important flaw in your logic. We're not policemen. A policeman's duty is to apprehend criminals.

 

[Irish#1]

Language and words may evolve for some, but for many, they mean what the dictionary defined them as. I'm in my 40s, grew up in an Italian neighborhood, and a few blocks down the road from the projects. Thug has never meant anything but what it is defined as. Do I need to stop using the word thug because you think I mean something different.

To your point about people pulling out the "I have black friends" card. I have black friends, Indian friends, Muslim friends, Puerto Rican friends, Cuban friends, German friends, gay friends, and old friends, etc.. I also volunteer at the refuge center and work with about every background you can imagine. Do I pretend to understand all of their plights or identify with their struggles? No, I'm just their friend. Is that fake of me, or bad of me to say that I have these friends?

It sounds as though you're making assumptions and stereotyping a lot of people on this board. Just like I don't know everyone's situations, you don't either. I know there is still prejudice out there. I see it often with my own eyes, and on both sides. It's sad. But there are also people who don't care about color, and define individuals by their behavior.

FIFY.........lol

 

[Bishop2b5]

This is pretty much on the spot. Once Mike Brown is shot and runs away, that situation is over. What happened afterwards when Wilson chased him is the most important part.

If somebody assaults you, then runs away, are you really going to chase him, kill him, then say he was a threat to you when he just ran away?

another thing i wanted to add: just because no bullets were found in mike browns back, doesn't mean he wasn't shot at while he had his back turned to wilson.

After Brown assaulted Wilson in the car and then ran away, what was Wilson supposed to do? Brown may or may not have been an imminent threat to Wilson any longer at that point, but he's just committed a violent crime (assaulting a police officer), was strongly suspected of having just robbed a store and assaulting the owner (which is why Wilson was trying to stop & question him in the first place), and it's Wilson's job as a police officer to apprehend him.

Wilson didn't exit his car and start shooting at Brown as he fled. He ordered him to stop and get on the ground. It was only when Brown turned back towards Wilson and charged him, refusing to obey the order to stop and get on the ground and thus becoming an imminent threat again, that Wilson shot him.

Running away from the scene after committing a crime doesn't allow an officer to run you down and shoot you to apprehend you, which isn't what happened here, but it doesn't mean the officer isn't supposed to attempt to apprehend you either. It's exactly what he's SUPPOSED to do as a law enforcement officer, whether the crime was committed against himself or anyone else.

 

[ickythump1225]

1. are white families not dependant on government assistance?

2. I'm sorry but what?! Please explain this.

1. Yes white families are dependent on the government and face similar struggles to black families dependent on government.

2. A democracy is tyranny of the majority. Democracy will always falter because at some point people realize they can just vote themselves money from the public treasury. Our nation has been downgraded from republic to democracy.

The absolute ruler may be a Nero, but he is sometimes a Titus or Marc Aurelius; the people is often Nero, but never Marc Aurelius.
-Rivarol